Problems with sex...

[WorkingOnIt505]

My BPDgf seems like she almost never wants sex and if it does happen I have to initiate it. The exception to this is usually when weed or alcohol is involved (the alcohol bit is especially upsetting to me). Sometimes I feel like there is nothing there for her, no real attraction. Every time we finish up she asks "was it good for you? what should I do to make it better?". It feels like she's just wants to know the routine and then get it over with. If there is alcohol or weed involved she always wants to bring it into the mix. Like sober sex is so terrible.

Having sex with her sober is not a regular occurrence anymore. What makes it worse is that she only really seems to initiate anything when I have been beaten down by her actions. It makes me feel like she use sex as a bargaining chip. The sad part is I'm afraid to reject her when this happens because then I feel like she'll be even more upset "am i not sexy?" "what's wrong?" "do you still love me?"

Last night I wanted to stay up with her and the whole time she was saying she was really sleepy which I was bummed about because she had already bailed on our date night. I told her so and she says "I just can't have sex tonight." I tried to explain that it wasn't about sex and that I really wanted to hang out (because I did) and instead got the same line over and over. Bleh.

It's like when I'm up and happy and want to express that feeling through sex she is not interested. She'll turn down kisses and neck nibbles on a regular basis (in the privacy of our apartment). As soon as we've gotten into a fight and everything is ~ty and i give up she'll try and use it to fix things.

Of course there is the occasion when everything just works out naturally but this is a rare thing.

She's on lexapro which I know can mess up sex drive but I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced this?

Thoughts on how to talk about it?

Fix it?

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[laelle]

Are you sure this is not a self esteem issue for her? 

[patientandclear]

At this point I've read so many stories about sexual withdrawal by pwBPD after the opening stages of relationships that I am convinced it's a major feature of the disorder for many people.  I imagine it is connected with fear of intimacy with someone who is, as another member here put it, "both known and knowing."  Scary as hell.

I think this is camouflaged by the way sex is used initially to please a partner.  In your case, it seems your pwBPD resorts to it in that way -- as a tool to secure closeness.  But not as something that she herself enjoys for its own sake.

My uBPDex was a child sex abuse survivor and it wasn't hard to tell that sex was incredibly fraught for him.  He was also, like so many pwBPD, very proficient and it was great for me.  Our r/s now is, I think, almost ideal for him -- we are emotionally close when he wants to be, distant when he wants to be, and we do not have sex.  I think sex is the locus of a lot of intense betrayal fears for him.

[almost789]

Agree with patientand clear. Having sex with the known and the knowing, for them, IS scary. And i think the reason for the withdraw AFTER the initial newness wears off. Im wondering though, patientandclear, you say your relationship is perfect for HIM. What about for you? Is the rudeness, the lack of  emotional intimacy and the distance when he needs ok for you?

[Peterpan]

Hi, this post rings home to me also.

My pwBPD (undiagnosed) has stayed in my life with the push pull cylces for nealry two years, for the last year we only had a handful of face to face meetings, in the beginning the sexual chemistry was so intense, something I had never felt in my life before.

When we got round to the sexual side, there were problems from the start which confused me a lot.

I won't go into the details again (it's all in my previous posts),, but, now after all this time, he can not let go of me,he says... .  and I do believe that he loves me deeply, allbeit in his own way, the only way he knows.

I think for him it was and probably still is,all about the thrill of the chase.

Sadly for me, I caught him 'chasing' and also clealry ahving a physical thing with someone else. I will never get over the pain that it caused me, I have tried to let it go, but the mere fact that he 'wants me in his life, loves me deeply' but cannot be physical with me tears me apart.

Of course, I have had all the false promises,for over a year in fact, and I KNOW that they are only given to me to keep me there (he feels that he has to, and probably that it is what I want)

For me, I could live with the intimacy he gives out in other ways, I even think I could cope with the push pull thing now that I understand why he does it all, but it's the knowing that he betrayed me with another, denied, and still denies it happened.

That to me means he did it then, and so, will still be doing it now.

He swears there is only me, and I so want to believe him.

I have gone through all the ups and down that this story brings, only to still be here waiting for him to prove it, I suppose there is no way he can prove it.

Patient and clear, how do you stay, wait, put up with all the excuses and everything else just for titbits and crumbs?

I am  not berating you for this, I have done it mysself, I just would like someone to tell me.

This man tells me he thinks of me as his lover, his only lover (thinks of me like that all the time) but makes no effort to make it real. That is very frusutrating and confusing on its own.

I knwo there can be relationships without the sex, and it's not that I need it to validate me, but like most people who are going through the withdrawal of it... .  It's about the knowing that they want to with you, that they desire you,,especially over someone else?

When sex is withdrawn from someone who has been very sexual and physical, that in itself sets in the doubt about there being a third party right?

I suppose what I want and need to know is this... .  is it possible that he really does love me, and that is why he withdraws from me, and when I bring it up, we then go throught the push thing again?

[Rockylove]

I have also seen many posts on this subject and am reluctant to comment most of the time because it's so confusing.

My bf has been "strange" about sex from the beginning.  He made comments that left me in a constant state of confusion.  He's always said "it's not about sex" to which I totally agree.  He's said he wishes he were "better at it", but I really can't imagine anything BETTER!  He knocks my socks off!  Because he's made such an issue of it, I've never initiated sex... .  I let him take the lead.  I'm ok with that, but I never know when he just wants to cuddle or if he wants me to respond to his touches. 

We just had this very conversation last night.  At times he just wants to touch me and be close to me.  He said that when he holds me that he doesn't know where he ends and I begin... .  we are one.  We have been together 19 months and it has taken until now for him to express certain feelings although he cannot necessarily put them into words.  He understands concepts more than any man I've ever known and that is helpful because I've told him that saying "I love you" feels trite... .  it's overused and he gets that! 

I have to admit that I'm not on the same wavelength with most people and have often been grossly misunderstood, but he gets it!  I had grown accustomed to what society has dictated as a "loving relationship,' trying desperately to make myself fit in the mold and here comes a man who feels and thinks outside the box!  He may have BPD which can be disruptive to a peaceful life at times, but I feel very fortunate to have found someone who understands the concept of love the same way I do.

[Cardinals in Flight]

I'm another one here on the Staying board who can confirm that sex is a huge issue for someone with BPD.  As has been told before me, sex was off the charts in the beginning of the relationship, and then... .  it wasn't.

After a ton of self-doubt, I found the courage to ask what was up, and it was a significant factor in the demise of the relationship.

"I love you, I can't give you what you need"

Ok, well, hmmmm 

At any rate, I just wanted to chime in and say it's not you!

I hope you can work through it.

CiF

[Foreverhopefull]

All I can say is that for the last 4 years, our sex life has been pretty much dead.

Granted, I stopped even trying (especially since, due to surgery, I just don't want it) and he's been having erectile dysfunction, so he doesn't even want to try.

It was off the charts before... .  in the early stages of the relationship.

[patientandclear]

Agree with patientand clear. Having sex with the known and the knowing, for them, IS scary. And i think the reason for the withdraw AFTER the initial newness wears off. Im wondering though, patientandclear, you say your relationship is perfect for HIM. What about for you? Is the rudeness, the lack of  emotional intimacy and the distance when he needs ok for you?

Not to hijack the thread, especially since I've been writing on my own threads on these very issues and no doubt will be again very soon, but in brief: I only stay because I get something out of it for me.  He is interesting, challenging (!), usually kind and reciprocal in his own staccato way.  Also, I am staying as a friend.  I could not consider him my partner and should-be sexual companion if he wouldn't show up consistently and wouldn't actually be physically intimate with me.  To me, the trick has been to define the relationship to parallel what he can actually give, rather than making it some thing we originally said it would be, and then be continually frustrated that he cannot deliver that in any consistent way, or at all.

I don't consider what we are doing "crumbs" because he is giving me a significant part of himself.  Again, I'd feel different if this was the person I was trying to come home to every day, expected to sleep in the same bed with, etc.

[Cloudy Days]

I can't really relate to this a whole lot because my husband is quite the opposite, he wants it all the time and I usually can't keep up. However, he did go through about a 7 month spell where I think we had sex maybe once because he was on antidepressants. They are something to think about. He actually appologised on our anniversary because he wasn't up for it. He just didn't want it at all. He asked to stop taking the meds for this reason alone.

[DyingLove]

I want to chime in here so badly! I love my significant other so much, it is literally incredible! With her, and her alone, I am a nonstop sex machine. I have to add one thing to that though, love. I even call it lovemaking, which is not uncommon, if it did not have love, I don't know if it would just be more than a bodily function, or release at least on my end.

I believe what her and I do in the privacy of our bedroom, or any other room when were alone, is our business and is okay. As long as it only involves the two of us, no pain, total consent, and love. Quite often people look to act out fantasies or have special requests... .  I believe that my woman need not go further than me for her dreams to become true. I am usually very fulfilled with this philosophy. On the other hand... .  in the very beginning of our courtship, there was much more activity than there is now. I have the same drive, wishes as well as the same loving feelings right now as I did in the beginning, or at any other time. I'm living proof that the "fun part" of the relationship do not need to diminish. I am also a person who understands what it takes to survive in a relationship. But like that wasn't enough, I end up with BPD!

While I've written to truth... .  God for bid my significant other ever got hold of this post,, LOL. I've never believed that sex or lovemaking is something to be ashamed of. I believe it something to be proud of. I know for a fact in men, that stress, mood, mental issues will increase the occurrence of erectile dysfunction as well as the drive that plays such an important part in successful lovemaking. It makes all the difference in the world when you love your partner and want the very best for her or him. When BPD comes into play the rules of engagement go right out the window,, or let's just say play it by ear. One thing I particularly enjoy, is the fact that lovemaking kind of knocks BPD on its ass! Not for too long, but somebody I know is going for a long long nap or sleep afterwards! (By the way, it's not me). So somebody is getting good rest which is needed. While this was a fun topic, I hope I contributed something good if not, it was still fun. :-)

[WorkingOnIt505]

Thanks for all the replies. She is definitely ashamed of the fact that she is not sexually into it which sucks because it drives the fire even more. It feels like there is no spark there, it's an obligation and when that "obligation" occurred today she didn't seem to want to go past oral and we didn't even finish. So bland and it seemed like she could have been anywhere else.

I called it off reassuring her it was okay and that I would throw my sexual energy into cooking us lunch. I made sure to tell her that it was not an issue and that we could pick it up when it was right for her.

An hour later she blew up at me because I passed on giving her a massage when we were both lying in bed cuddling. Started screaming about how she "gives me sexual favors when she doesn't want to do anything of the sort." It's like she misses the whole entire point of intimacy! I don't want sex when she isn't into it and I certainly don't want ~ty, sub-standard "i guess i have to" sex being used against me when she is angry.

I left the apartment and she apologized later for the incident but I am wondering if it will ever be intimate. Bleh, wish I could just be with someone who made me feel worth something.

[Rockylove]

Bleh, wish I could just be with someone who made me feel worth something.

You ARE with someone who has all the power to make you feel worth something~~YOU!

[ChemGuy]

I left the apartment and she apologized later for the incident but I am wondering if it will ever be intimate. Bleh, wish I could just be with someone who made me feel worth something.

I know how you feel as my story is similar to yours.  Sex was great in the beginning, then it was only great when alcohol was involved, then it was never good and frequently involved her watching the TV during the whole event, and now we haven't had sex for months and sleep in different bedrooms. 

I think that having virtually no sex is one of the things that has to be accepted in order to have a peaceful life with a pwBPD (excepting those who seem to be extreme in the opposite direction).  It can be lonely and make you feel bad about yourself if you let it.  The way I fight this is by not allowing myself to believe that we will every have sex again and that lack of anticipation makes things a little easier to handle.  At least it stops the fighting on that topic and since sex got pretty bad near the end anyway I guess I'm not missing much.  It can be hard not to get angry about it though. 

[charred]

I know how you feel as my story is similar to yours.  Sex was great in the beginning, then it was only great when alcohol was involved, then it was never good and frequently involved her watching the TV during the whole event, and now we haven't had sex for months and sleep in different bedrooms. 

I think that having virtually no sex is one of the things that has to be accepted in order to have a peaceful life with a pwBPD (excepting those who seem to be extreme in the opposite direction).  It can be lonely and make you feel bad about yourself if you let it.  The way I fight this is by not allowing myself to believe that we will every have sex again and that lack of anticipation makes things a little easier to handle.  At least it stops the fighting on that topic and since sex got pretty bad near the end anyway I guess I'm not missing much.  It can be hard not to get angry about it though. 

Whew, kind of hits home. At first sex was mind blowing, like everything in the r/s it was intense. For me the attraction stayed that way. I dated my pwBPD in college (got dumped with no explanation) then got back with her some 27 yrs later... .  she had gained weight, let herself go... .  and I was still mesmerized... she lost the weight, got back to looking good and over time... .  the sex went away.

I did notice that it seemed like she was always watching me for a reaction, that it was something she was doing to please me, but wasn't something she even seemed to want. When it became obvious that was the case, and I read more and more on BPD... .  I found myself not wanting to be intimate with her. We had issues anyway (recycled about 6-7 times) and then she was a no show when we were going to move in together... .  and was unreachable for about 3 days, so I went NC. Low and behold she had a new guy (week or two later) and she caught a STD from him and they broke up, then she came to me to console her... .  and was telling me how she fought him off for almost 4 mos... that he texted her all the time... .  and I was like ... let me get this straight, he didn't take you out, he just texted you and you dropped your drawers... .  geez... .  anyway, I still think of her, but hope I am finally shocked enough by the reality of her disorder... .  to stay clear of her... .  I don't want any part of it anymore. Just need to move on.