what constitutes evidence of facilitating visitation

[PDrUs]

Hi All,

I am looking for any kind of guidelines or information dealing with a parent that isn't facilitating visitation. The parent is actually using PA to pull the child away all the while claiming the common theme that this is what the child wants and why should she not give the child what they want.

She is claiming that she is doing all she can to encourage the child, but the child is persisting that this is what he wants.

I'm sure a lot of you know this story and have lived it on your own.

Part of the co-parenting concept is that the non-custodial parent must facilitate visitation, however there seems to be no real definition of what this is and how this is demonstrated.

With a clear list of actions that demonstrate what constitutes facilitating visitation, a check list of sorts, it would be easier to demonstrate how the disordered parent is not facilitating visitation.

It seems to me that there are a subset of symptoms demonstrated by children affected by PA, with almost no real help with how to combat them. I am trying to put together a set of tools that will be helpful in combating this horrible situation. The laws as they stand are zero help and something needs to be done to help the targeted parent and the brainwashed children.

[Thunderstruck]

Do you have a CO in place? Document every time she denies visitation (reason doesn't matter) and take her back to court for contempt. Visitation isn't up to the child. It's just a CHILD, they shouldn't have to make these major life decisions. Ugh, PA just drives me crazy. 

[PDrUs]

Thanks Thunder,

I have a temp court order from 2009 that says shared parenting. I have minutes of mediation from Nov 2012 for agreed shared parenting and 50/50 regime.

None of this matters to a disordered PA parent that wants nothing but to destroy the relationship you have with your kids. They don't respect CO.

If you want to go back to court to enforce it, the judge will ask the kid what they want, well guess what? The kid will say they want to be with the PA parent and give the child what they ask for. Not what they need and not what they may even want, but what they have been brainwashed to deliver... .  

So, what can a targeted parent do? What should we do? The pages of this forum and many more are filled with these questions and clearly the laws that have been enacted and the processes that we all follow are failing, miserably.

I have a vision for a site where the subjects of these targeted attacks can go to get the tools they need to defend themselves and their children from the devastating effects.

My question is, what is the yard stick we use to measure that a parent is facilitating visitation? Without a yardstick, there is no measure, without a measure, there is no ability to demonstrate non-compliance to the court. There needs to be one and I will advocate for one as someone needs to do this. If we can demonstrate this in a logical, reasonable, factual way, the courts will have no recourse but to respond.

That's how they work. I want to bring all the successful tools together to a place that can help targeted parents. Together there is a way to combat it and I refuse to accept the psychological determination that in most circumstances nothing can be done until the children figure it out on their own. We are the grown-ups, we are their parents, we must do what we can do and bringing the global knowledge together can bring change to this situation.

[ForeverDad]

Visitation isn't up to the child. It's just a CHILD, they shouldn't have to make these major life decisions.

What your ex is doing is putting the children in the middle and coercing them - or at least enabling them - to take sides or choose one parent over the other.  Kids shouldn't have that weight on their shoulders.  Actually, if children were given that option, then that would be added incentive for more intense presssuring or alienation by the parent.

Older children may get a limited voice in such decisions.  As they start driving there is greater opportunity for them to vote with their feet.

Four years later and still a temp order?  Isn't there a specific schedule?  Either 7/7 or 2/2/5/5, etc?

[PDrUs]

Thanks Forever. I know what she's doing. I know how damaging it is. I just can't do anything now that my son has been alienated. Worse is that his older sister was alienated and he's been fighting the pressure from both of them for a very long time. He's done, he gave up. He's succumbed and decided to live full time with her.

A 14 yo should not be able to make a life changing decision like this. Its ridiculous. Its also very real. The courts will give him what he says. She knows it, he knows it. He isn't voting with his feet, he's been brainwashed and manipulated in hundreds of different ways. He doesn't have the strength to withstand the pressure from both his BPD mom and his enmeshed sister. His sister has displayed every major symptom of a alienated child and I don't blame him for giving up. The stress was killing him.

So now what? I fight it in court? For what? Unless I can prove parental alienation, which the judges don't want to hear about, what can I do? Show me the tools I can use to fight this. Either legally or with therapy? They are almost non existent.

We need better tools. I am starting a site to publish those tools.

[PDrUs]

Older children may get a limited voice in such decisions.  As they start driving there is greater opportunity for them to vote with their feet.

And where is the legal verbage that supports this statement? What is limited? How do you best argue this in front of a judge when you have too? What hard evidence supports that despite what an older child says, they should not be allowed to not switch?

Four years later and still a temp order?  Isn't there a specific schedule?  Either 7/7 or 2/2/5/5, etc?

Nothing in the form of a CO. 50/50 with switching after school on Fridays was the agreement and evidenced with all sorts of agreements that she paid lip service to with no intention of supporting. Its now positioned with him that if I go against his statements to not live with me, I could undermine our relationship for many years if not permanently.

[1stand10]

PD,

I saw this in court back in Feb 2013 in front of the judge that never went by the law in my trials so I consider him a harda$$.  Both parents were representing themselves so no Ls to put up smoke screens.

The father wanted to see his 16 year old daughter more but the mother refused saying that D16 hated his new wife because she mistreats D16.  The father had emails of him asking to visit with D16 and his ex refusing.  Then during one visit, the father took D16 to a T with him and his new wife.  D16 had some alone time with the T and the T wrote a letter to the court saying D16 is experiencing animosity towards the new wife because she feels betrayed by her father.  The T recommended that the family attend counseling and increase visitation.  Although the letter didn't state it (or they didn't read it all the way) the father said that the mother was encouraging the animosity.

The judge awarded him EO weekend over nights and time to take D16 to the T during the week (I don't know what it was prior to that).  The mother refused and the judge said, "This is a court order and you will not refuse.  If you don't believe this is in D10's best interest you should speak to this T because D10 appears to open up her.  You have the right to take part in her care.  If the T believes it's not in D16's best interest then she should make that report and you can bring it up in a seperate motion."

40 minutes and they were done because the dad had documentation and a letter from a T.  In his orders the judge said that it was legal for the father to do this because he has joint legal custody which enabled him to seek psychological counseling for D16.

So, document everything and if you have joint legal custody, take S14 to some counseling.

Best of luck to you.