Is the struggle worth the benefit?

[angeldust1]

I hear so many of you say,  that you dread your pwBPD's  visits as well as confrontations.  We all dread them,  and in my case he is in isolation mode and that is good and bad.  The peace and calm is so nice but I do miss him.  But when I think about him possibly coming over with his attitude and loaded for bear,  I can really do with out it.  My dh would like to go over and speak to him about what he is so angry at me for,  which is actually all imaginary... .  surprise!  I have never been able to defend what he accuses me of.  It really bothers me that I can't at least tell him I did not do what you thinks I did.  

(I'll devulge the unpardonable sin:  I am contacting his  ex wife and am conspiring with her against him.)  This the extent of the contact I have had in the past 5 or 6 years.   She sent my a sympathy care when my mother died,  and said she would have come to the funeral,  but she was pregnant,  and since she and he could not have chlildren,  she didn't want to upset him)

Yes,  I can certainly see isolating a mother for over a year for going to the mailbox to get out a sympathy card.  This is the type behavior we have all have to deal with,  and I know some of you out there can totally relate to such an irrational story,  but that is exactly what I am dealing with.  

I just wonder if it would do any good for my husband to talk to him,  He does really like his stepfather,  but of course  he is "sleeping with the enemy"  so is it a good idea or just let it go.  I wonder  if he even remembers what he's so angry  at me about.  

Oh yes,  my brother called today and wanted to text ds about something,  and I said he probably won't  answer.  He did indeed answer right away,  and my brother said he was as nice and helpful and courteous as could be.  Maybe there is hope,  but then again,  was this just a good day for him,  or could there be a break through?    

All in all this is the craziest life anyone could ever have to deal with,  but it is what it is,  and we gotta take it as it comes.  But it is oh so wonderful to know , that we are not the one loosing our minds,  and that this is a serious disorder.  I shall never forget how I felt when I first started reading posts and I felt as if I were reading my life story right here on this site.  I said to myself,  these people know what I life with everyday and they do to.  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Vivgood]

You are talking about rational facts (getting a card from his ex-wife)... .  he is responding to feelings (he feels betrayed by ex-wife, and you by extension because of the contact). Apples and orangutans! You don't have to justify, argue, deny or explain the contact with ExW because thats beside the point. All you have to do is acknowledge his feelings and express empathy/sympathy. Thats what he wants, and to HIM, it seems ridiculous that you don't understand how tremendously hurt he is. Just as it seems ridiculous to YOU that he is hurt by something you deem trivial

If you can make the shift in thinking required to practice validating communication regularly, you are likely to see major changes in your interactions with him.  It takes 2 to create these debacles of violent interaction, but you can't do a thing to get him to change his part, all you can do is change your part... .  and the interaction between you  will perforce change.

• I can certainly see isolating a mother for over a year for going to the mailbox to get out a sympathy card

try to see this as the measure of how much he is hurt, rather than as a measure of how ridiculous it is for him to feel hurt. he feels it.Speak to that.

Unfortunately, the less intimate their relationship is with an individual, the less likely their interaction will be difficult... .  and our relationship with our mothers is arguably the most intimate of human relationships.  Thus, mom gets the worst of it, lucky us  whee!  

That difficulty can serve a purpose, too. Each of us HAS to detach from Mom to become a functional adult, but for BPDs that imperative is a tangled web- they crave intimacy, need to decrease intimacy with mom, and can't figure out what they feel and why anyway. just a real dilemma. Having a big blow-out with Mom lets them achieve one goal using the only (dysfunctional, ineffective) tools that they have.

    vivgood

[peaceandhope]

Vivgood,

How beautiully you explained it.

Angeldust, we are all here on this forum because we love our kids who are victims of this unfortunate illness.

Yes it is a big struggle to all of us parents with all this: love you/hate you, push and pull stuff,need you/dont need you and it confuses us too.

But at the end of the day as parents we want our kids to be happy, at peace and well adjusted. Since they dont have insight we are the ones who have to learn skills to deal with their brain dysfunction.

You are in my thoughts and prayers.

Peacandn hope  

[angeldust1]

Thanks vivgood,  

This is quite insightful.  As a matter of fact  just previous to reading your reply,  saw a film on validation and really was thinking the same thing you said,  but could not quite put it into words.

I do have a question though... .  

What goal was he trying to achieve when he had the big blow out with me.  What was his aim for blasting me?

I  am beginning to understand why God has allowed this separation for us.  I didn't know about BPD,  I didn't realize he had it,  and I certainly didn't know how to deal with it.  Unfortunately this has been going on for 25 years.  On again off again,  isolation,  dysfunctional, angry and a ton of failed relationships. I am hoping when we finally see each other again,  I can use the tools I am learning here.  i can't believe how this has changed my life and my relationship thoughts with him.  Thank you again.

[angeldust1]

Thanks Pecan

I appreciate your concern and feel your caring.  I realize I am not in the struggle alone,  and I will keep in mind that having BPD,  is much more serious than I ever thought.  Maybe one day I will have a relationship again with him,  but it will be different this time.  I needed the tools with which to deal with,  and I am finding them here.

[angeldust1]

Sorry,  misread you name Peaceandhope

[Eclaire5]

In regards to your question:  "What goal was he trying to achieve when he had the big blow out with me.  What was his aim for blasting me?" I believe he probably had no goal. We always need to remember that our children think very different from the way we do. They mostly think with their emotions and not with cognitive rationality. I think his blow out was just part of not being able to cope with intense feelings, and had to use you as the recipient of all his anger. Our children project onto us what they cannot deal with and that's why we get the worse end of it... .  

[Vivgood]

What goal was he trying to achieve when he had the big blow out with me.  What was his aim for blasting me?

I agree  with what Eclair says; the "goal" is to relieve dysregulated emotions. That's the BPDs real goal much of the time. the feelings really are overwhelming and alleviating the despair/rage/etc is imperative. The actual facts surrounding the emotions are pretty irrelevant, and half the time they won't even remember the "facts" accurately. But I think you are on to something when you think about it terms of goals! That IS a goal of sorts isn't it? And a pretty understandable one when you think about both their dysregulated emotions and their inability to identify the source of them as interior. You don't say how old your son is, but it probably doesn't matter much since development is skewed in BPD anyway- the developmental need to separate drives some of the BPD kid's hostile interactions with Mom, IMO. The struggle between intimacy vs. autonomy is particularly acute when it comes to the mother-child relationship. The concept of "detachment with love" and tools like validation can help him with all of that... .  oh, and it helps decrease YOUR stress and heartache, which is a worthwhile goal in itself don't you think?


vivgood (if there is an eclair and pecans here... .  I want brownies!)

[angeldust1]

My son is 39 soon to be 40!  Sounds like a grown man,  and is in every way except in interpersonal relationships.  Sound job been at 25yrs,  nice home,  nice car, pays bills on time,  and quite handsome.  So whats the problem,  or so it would seem?

His first marriage lasted 12 yrs. to a wonderful girl,  who loved him dearly and he loved as well.  That part of the problem he still does.  She left with just the clothes on her back.  I never knew what lead to the final breakup,  but had my suspicion.  I knew something was wrong,  but just thought he was a mean,  thoughtless,  reclusive think of myself first, kind of guy.  Never quite knew what was quite wrong,  but hoped.

Since then he has been engaged 3 times,  and all of which broke up before the wedding.  A couple of years ago,  he met another girl,  and started talking marriage.  They married and it lasted a whopping 7 days,  before he started talking divorce.  I knew at this point something was seriously wrong.

It was at that point I began researching his traits and come up with BPD.  He has 7 of the 9 traits,  and while he has not been medically diagonosed,  I feel I am right in saying he is BPD.

Since that time it is been a whirlwind of ups and downs,  until he found out his exW had a child.  I presume he felt it was the final straw and he'd never get back with her. 

The problem is I thought he knew,  and  I found out in the sympathy card she sent me. I never initiated the contact w/her.   She didn't want him to find out that way,  so she just sent me the card,  and that was enough to set him off. will finish later... .   

[angeldust1]

to finsih,  I was in a bit of a bind and had to stop.  Let me clear up a little of my previous post.  My sons exW,  sent me a sympathy card after my mother died.  In this card she wrote she did not come to the funeral because she did not want him to find out she was pregnant at such a hard time in his life.  You see they could never have a child.  So I suppose it was a double wammy,  I... .  didn't know he didn't know,  and  mentioned it in casual conversation to him.  He then drew the conculsion that she and I were having dinner dates and I'm babysitting for her child,  or at least that is what was told to me by another family member.    You know how their imagination goes wild,  or at least his does.  None of this was said,  he just assumed or he "filled in the blanks" as they do.   

It has now been 1 yr and 3mos.  since I have spoken to him,  w/very few texts that were always quite unpleasant. No Christmas, no mothers day,  no birthday,  although I have acknowledged all of them to him.  This is where my life stands at this time.

Oh yeah,  Vivgood,  I've got the brownies cooking,  I can smell them now.

You all take care and thanks so much for listening.

[Vivgood]

ouch angeldust! 40 years!

Your DS sounds like my BPD sister. Also in her 40s and professionally high functioning. And has lots of acquaintance-level friends who think she's great. She has never been able to keep a real relationship together, and is quite dependent on my parents (altho she pulls some real manipulative sh!t). Whole 'nother story, but... .  I take the view of hope and believe that treatment is effective at any age and that healing is possible with work. My parents have always just folded in the face of manipulation, but if they were able to change their own way of dealing, learn to communicate compassionately and set  (and keep) boundaries, i do think change is possible. I think the same for you!

I totally see the path that your son went down, now that you tell us the whole story! Not fair to you, but how classically BPD and how sad.  :'(


vivgood

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[angeldust1]

Yes Viv,  it is so very sad.  I've dealt with it for years and it is just now,   that I realize what he has.  It actually is wonderful to know.  I always just thought I was crazy and couldn't deal with my own son.  He treats me worse than anyone else,  and it hurts so badly,  but at least I do find solace here. 

But in order to get help,  one must realize they need help,  he thinks it's everyone else.  What a lonely life he will live if he never comes to terms with his own disorder.

Once years ago he was having problems at home and asked to come to stay with us for awhile.  I agreed,   but reluctantly.  I told him that maybe he would consider talking to a counselor.  He immediately started screaming at me.  I hung up and thought I'll talk to him later when he is more rational.  Right like there's ever a time that they are.  Anyhow,  he began calling me back.  He must have called 20 times or more,  for over an hour,    that was before texting.  I didn't answer,  so after I couldn't stand the ringing I thought I will answer and tell him I'd gone out and just to  see what he had to say,  when I finally picked up the phone... .  he hung up on me!  Tell me if you wouldn't think you were going crazy yourself.  Still have no idea what that was all about. Guess he wanted to have the last word. or last hang up.  Actually I think I shocked him after so long and he just didn't know what to say.  That's the crazy stuff I have delt with,  for almost 40yrs.  His dad I believe was also BPD.  Although he was diaganosed with manic depressive disorder.  It's been a real real crazy ride,  but am now married to a wonderful man.  Thank God at last.

[sam-99]

Sigh... .  just what I needed to read this morning... .  a good reminder... .  I am going throught the getting accused of being a trigger phase and my dd 22 wants to move out... .  again... .  going to push for it this time and help her get a place and hope we can all get some peace.  This post reminded me of a lot of simple things that I well know, but going through it... .  first inclination is to take it all personally.  Thank you so much for putting things into perspective.  Helps me hold on... .  to reality... .  gotta keep our feet under us!

[sam-99]

You are talking about rational facts (getting a card from his ex-wife)... .  he is responding to feelings (he feels betrayed by ex-wife, and you by extension because of the contact). Apples and orangutans! You don't have to justify, argue, deny or explain the contact with ExW because thats beside the point. All you have to do is acknowledge his feelings and express empathy/sympathy. Thats what he wants, and to HIM, it seems ridiculous that you don't understand how tremendously hurt he is. Just as it seems ridiculous to YOU that he is hurt by something you deem trivial

If you can make the shift in thinking required to practice validating communication regularly, you are likely to see major changes in your interactions with him.  It takes 2 to create these debacles of violent interaction, but you can't do a thing to get him to change his part, all you can do is change your part... .  and the interaction between you  will perforce change.

• I can certainly see isolating a mother for over a year for going to the mailbox to get out a sympathy card

try to see this as the measure of how much he is hurt, rather than as a measure of how ridiculous it is for him to feel hurt. he feels it.Speak to that.

Unfortunately, the less intimate their relationship is with an individual, the less likely their interaction will be difficult... .  and our relationship with our mothers is arguably the most intimate of human relationships.  Thus, mom gets the worst of it, lucky us  whee!  

That difficulty can serve a purpose, too. Each of us HAS to detach from Mom to become a functional adult, but for BPDs that imperative is a tangled web- they crave intimacy, need to decrease intimacy with mom, and can't figure out what they feel and why anyway. just a real dilemma. Having a big blow-out with Mom lets them achieve one goal using the only (dysfunctional, ineffective) tools that they have.

    vivgood

Vivgood... .  I think I'll post this on my fridge!  Thanks for such a clear explanation!