Is NC the only way?

[Depression = 72% of members]

I am feel like NC is the only way to heal and break the cycle of dysfunction. Otherwise, it seems all I do is perform strategies to avoid mine fields and potential drama's. So much time is spent maneuvering around BP family. Can't do this, can't say that. What is the point of a relationship with people if it is only to keep the crazy a bay? This disorder is so poisonous, why bother even being in these peoples lives? I have a harder time dealing with the fact that I am so effected by this than my BP relative themselves. I get so impatient with myself, and as I begin to take stock and examine my life thus far, I see how unbalanced and afraid I have been. I just want to be healthy. Nor have that constant anticipation of potential dramas, chaos. I am here to find anyway I can to break free. To free myself of the past and move forward. I don't care if my BP family member ever gets well, I don't care to help or be there. I literally feel nothing. When I think of the anxiety I have put myself through, the hours spent being angry, resentful, fearful, anxious, sad... .  That is my responsibility. All these posts and advice help me. Tremendously. So, its a start. I deserve happiness, peace. Its possible to be healthy and have real, genuine relationships. On a plus, my dysfunction made me able to deal with life and spot nut jobs and toxic people. I am grasping at the ankles of happiness sometimes, on my knees begging for peace. It has to get better. It must.

[Issa]

I am feel like NC is the only way to heal and break the cycle of dysfunction. Otherwise, it seems all I do is perform strategies to avoid mine fields and potential drama's. So much time is spent maneuvering around BP family. Can't do this, can't say that. What is the point of a relationship with people if it is only to keep the crazy a bay? This disorder is so poisonous, why bother even being in these peoples lives? I have a harder time dealing with the fact that I am so effected by this than my BP relative themselves. I get so impatient with myself, and as I begin to take stock and examine my life thus far, I see how unbalanced and afraid I have been. I just want to be healthy. Nor have that constant anticipation of potential dramas, chaos. I am here to find anyway I can to break free. To free myself of the past and move forward. I don't care if my BP family member ever gets well, I don't care to help or be there. I literally feel nothing. When I think of the anxiety I have put myself through, the hours spent being angry, resentful, fearful, anxious, sad... .  That is my responsibility. All these posts and advice help me. Tremendously. So, its a start. I deserve happiness, peace. Its possible to be healthy and have real, genuine relationships. On a plus, my dysfunction made me able to deal with life and spot nut jobs and toxic people. I am grasping at the ankles of happiness sometimes, on my knees begging for peace. It has to get better. It must.

[Louise7777]

Hi Issa,

I understand and sympathize with you. I askk myself the same questions. I came to a point that I dont care whats the PD, I just want to run. You are right, its a lot of stress, fear, anger and that even before meeting them, just antecipating what may happen.

Also, I completely understand your worries about talking in the right tone, the right issues... .  Whats the point in all that? I know the advice is full aceptance, but seems that at the point I am, going NC is the best for my health.

Wish you the best of luck.   

[Beachbumforlife]

Imho, it is a very personal decision to make based on what you feel is best for you.  And I don't judge other people for their decisions.  Not for being nc, full contact, or lc.  You have the right to decide.

I will say one thing.  In life, things are fluid.  I know of nothing that is permanent.  Can't even tell you if death is a permanent state.  But sometimes we need to just do what we feel is right for ourselves in the moment.

[rescuenomore]

I hear you Issa as I am there myself... . wondering why am I doing this why it makes me feel anxious and miserable.  Every time I have a small break my life feels so much clearer and less painful.  I am fairly certain that my uBPDm will never get well and whilst I have set up boundaries, am trying radical acceptance, etc I am still left feeling like I want to scream after contact with her.  I don't know if it gets better the further you move along with your own healing but I hope so.  The problem for me (which my mother likes to consistently remind me) is that I feel like she has no one because she has driven them all away.  If I can manage her in small doses I will but not at the expense of my own mental health and I'm just not sure if I can anymore.

[Beachbumforlife]

Rescue, do you mind if I ask you what radical acceptance is?

[rescuenomore]

Someone gave me a link to it in a previous post.  i'll try to copy and paste it here.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=89910.0

I think it's basically like practising mindfulness in that you accept things the way they are and accept your emotions /responses to them and just allow yourself to 'sit' with them, not judge them, not try to change them or avoid them (i.e. by reacting to or trying to change the other person).

Hope that explains it a bit... . Maybe someone else can post the link if mine doesn't work

[Beachbumforlife]

Cool!  Thanks!

[doubleAries]

Here's my story (ultra readers digest version):

I have been NC with my sadistic BPD mother for 22 years.

It took a year or 2 for me to have this lightbulb over my head, realizing "WOW. I actually have the luxury of sorting out my OWN thoughts, feelings, and beliefs instead of only being able to react to the soap opera/crisis/drama/rage du jour!"

While this was an excellent first step for me, it did not solve all the problems. Let me try to explain:

As a kid, I knew there was definitely something wrong with my mom (as well as my NPD alcoholic child molesting father). I also believed that when I grew up and moved away, everything would be "fine". I would be a healthy, well rounded individual. After all, SHE was the one with the problem--not me! OK, fine. I didn't grow up to be a BPD, but everything was certainly NOT "fine". I found myself in one dysfunctional relationship after another. I found myself surrounded by boundary buster "friends". WHY?  

Like most of you here, I grew up in a hyper-vigilant state. I learned to watch every gesture, hear every tone of voice, anticipate every beating or beratement (no, I guess I wasn't able to prevent anything, but at least I was "prepared". Did this "prepare" me for the real world, to be able to see the predators out there? I thought it would, but really it didn't. I grew up practising--over and over and over--coping with utter dysfunction and abusiveness. What other skills did I have? Don't we all unconsciously gravitate towards situations and people where we can use our well honed skills? Skills that are so deeply ingrained we are no longer even consciously aware of them?

I spent a great deal of time scrutinizing myself to make sure I wasn't like HER. Well, I wasn't. Problem was, I was like ME. A codependent, boundary-less, target. I wasn't like her--but I attracted people like her. Because that's where my alleged "skills" in coping were/are.

None of my family is very close, and as I said, I've been NC with the BPD witch for 22 years. I have no intention whatsoever of ever reinstating contact with her. But I want to point out that NC does not solve all the issues. We still have to work on us. You just don't come out of that environment unscathed.

Do I bellow at people, ridicule and sabotage them, beat them senseless? No. What I DO find myself doing is defending and (over)explaining myself all the time--to people I don't even need to defend or explain myself to. I find myself trying to "help" people all the time, so they will like me (except I and they usually end up resentful). I find myself making up excuses for others unacceptable behavior and treatment towards me. I find myself blaming myself for others behavior. I find myself believeing that if someone is mad at me, I must have done something wrong and I need to fix it. I find myself always trying to assuage others irritations or anger, because somewhere inside it makes me really uncomfortable. I found myself married to someone with bipolar w/ psycotic features, ASPD, and NPD--for 18 years!--because he needed my help (which he never asked for and deeply resented).

Are these things serving me well? I don't think so. But this is the legacy--these are the issues I have to deal with within myself--regardless of whether I have contact with pwBPD or not. Cutting off contact did not make the anxiety go away. because the anxiety is inside me. I learned from mom that my feelings are somebody elses fault (so I DID act like her in some regards!) and that I can escape those feelings by escaping the person who is "causing" them (or maybe not).

Just trying to point out why the NC issue is actually more complicated than we might anticipate... .  

doubleAries

[Issa]

I understand your point, and the more I read the more I understand what you meant by the anxiety being within, regardless of NC. I guess, I am trying to find a way, some way, to silence that. Break the cycle. I am at a point where I no longer have "friendships" that resembled the dysfunctional relationship similar to moms/sister. That was years in the making. And yes, the anxiety is still there.

Thanks for the input guys,, lots of food for thought.

[doubleAries]

I'm not saying do or don't go NC. That decision is up to you. I myself still have many good reasons to remain NC with my own mother. But 22 years later, I still have upper back and neck tension pain. I still relentlessly scan others for "secret motives".

I've gotten the friendship thing down a lot better--I actually have friends who don't NEED me for anything! (Doesn't mean I don't question at times why they want to be my friends--it couldn't possibly be just because they like me, could it?)

I've been seeing an excellent therapist who specializes in BPD and the aftermath for families of BPD's for a year and a half now. I feel especially lucky to have found him, because when I first went to him, I didn't know there was a name for my mom (and I didn't go there because of my mom anyway!). He's the one who clued me in. We talk a little about my mom in therapy, but mostly we talk about me, how I deal with things, why my point of reference is dysfunction. Why I haven't been able to overcome the relentless anxiety and hyper-vigilance through sheer conscious will alone. We talk about ingrained, unconscious automatic patterns and behaviors.

I highly recommend a book by Christine Lawson called "understanding the borderline mother"--she doesn't just describe types of borderlines and their behavior--this alone is worth reading so we understand there actually is a text book pattern of behavior in these seemingly random acts of insanity--she dedicates the entire 2nd half of the book to how to cope with these people, how to cope with ourselves. I don't mean "how to accept them better and tolerate their cruelty". There is no hint of what we already feel and heard over and over--it's our fault and we have to accomodate better. I don't mean that at all.

We never learned good values and boundaries to protect those values. That's why we are still hyper-vigilant and anxious. We're trying to protect ourselves. With a method that doesn't work well.

Whether we cut off contact with our parents with BPD or not, we still need to learn the things we did not learn as kids.

[Louise7777]

DoubleAries, thanks a lot for sharing. Your posts have been eye-openers for me. 

Issa, good luck to u! To all of us actually. 

[enough abuse]

I completely understand what you are saying and am facing this challenge myself.

My social worker that is helping me work through this said something that has really helped me deal with NC. 

Detachment is not detaching from the person, it is detaching from the agony of being involved.  Basically saying "I wish things were different, I wish I could have a relationship with this person, but I understand it will not change and I and the rest of my immediate family do not deserve this abuse"

I did not cause their BPD

I can't change their BPD and I cannot cure their BPD

I also found these statements helpful.

I have rounded the "circle of abuse" 5 times at least with my sister.  Minimal contact worked for about 3 years but then went things went bad they were worse than ever.  I have now had time to see this yet one more time and not getting back on.

It is not easy.  I do not like this or want this but overall it is the healthiest for me and my family.

Hang in there, think about yourself... .  

all the best... .  it is the most devistating feeling having someone close to you with this disorder.

[Beachbumforlife]

Detachment is not detaching from the person, it is detaching from the agony of being involved.  Basically saying "I wish things were different, I wish I could have a relationship with this person, but I understand it will not change and I and the rest of my immediate family do not deserve this abuse"

Those are wise words. Thanks for sharing. 

[healinghome]

i've just come to embrace nc myself, so this post was cool to read.

BPD is so rife in my foo that I have come to the conclusion the nc with all of them is the only way to find peace in my life.  i don't think nc itself heals all the emotional problems we encounter by being around pd's, but i do feel that nc prevents any further pain.  its like a line in the sand, saying 'no more!'.

i can totally relate to what doublearies said.  I became hyper-vigilant and a 'fixer'.  both of which are exhausting;  hyper-vigilant in trying to predict the moves of pd's and protect myself from their narcissistic and abusive behaviour and trying to fix their issues due to believing their bs emotional projecting (expressing that their problems are caused by me making them my responsibility), so i better fix them.

its a liberating moment to reolize that everything they do, feel and experience is their business and nothing to do with me

for me... .  i can't say the road away from pd's is easy, but it is paved with gifts involving healing and reclaiming myself. and it sure beats a life with them!

[GeekyGirl]

There was a time that I thought NC was the only way to go. My situation is slightly different, as my mother alienates people by giving them the silent treatment. I've been on the receiving end of the silent treatment many times now, and after the last time, I said that NC was really my only option. I'd been tired of apologizing for things I didn't understand, sacrificing my needs (and my husband's as well) to keep my mother from raging, and feeling emotionally drained.

While I was NC with my parents, I actually found myself obsessing about them. I was afraid to visit anywhere within a 5 mile radius of my hometown. I was very angry with enBro. I spent more time than I'd like to admit wondering if I'd ever speak with my parents again. For me, NC turned out to be more emotionally draining than I would have imagined. Yes, it freed me from the feelings of obligation towards my parents, but the guilt and fear were still very present. It gave me the break that I needed to work on myself, which turned out to be very valuable.

My mother eventually broke NC with me and after learning about BPD and protecting myself, I could really see her behavior for what it is. I'm LC now, and see my parents occasionally. This brings on challenges as well (I know that she could rage anytime), but I no longer spend time obsessing about them and if/when she does rage again, I have the tools to better deal with it than I did in the past. I'm not going to be my mother's doormat again.

By no means am I trying to convince you to not go NC, but I felt like I needed to share what it's like on both sides of NC, as I've been there.

[Exy725]

You have every right to remove yourself if you need to without any guilt feelings. Your have every right to protect yourself and make decision to ensure your wellbeing.

Life with a person with BPD can suck the life out of you and if time out is what you need to stay healthy then you must ensure you come first without fear of retribution.

The persn with BPD is responsible for themselves and there behaviour, and they need to take accountability. People with BPD want direction, boudaries and need to be told when they are out of line and you by no means need to take on their stuff.

So when enough is enough its ok to remove yourself for as long as you need to.

[healinghome]

People with BPD want direction, boudaries and need to be told when they are out of line and you by no means need to take on their stuff.

I haven't experienced this.  any time boundaries were put in place and/or used, they reacted badly and telling them they are out of line is triggering to them in my experience, because it reinforces the reality that we are separate from them.  causing them to feel abandoned and react.

I agree with the rest of this post though 

[Louise7777]

I agree with EXy. Its pretty simple, actually. We are not responsible, their behaviour is unhealthy so we should remove ourselves from the stage. Very simple. I dont know why we fight it and want to help/ rescue. Theres NO WAY to do that! And why should I anyway? I have my own problems to deal with.

healinghome2, I understand what you mean. But Im afraid Im not at your level (I think I will never be). I dont actually care if they feel abandoned. You cant be a raging lunatic, insulting humiliating people and also expect them to be there for you. "The sowing is free, the harvest is mandatory". Thats my favourite sentence at the moment. 

[healinghome]

healinghome2, I understand what you mean. But Im afraid Im not at your level (I think I will never be). I dont actually care if they feel abandoned. You cant be a raging lunatic, insulting humiliating people and also expect them to be there for you. "The sowing is free, the harvest is mandatory". Thats my favourite sentence at the moment.  grin

hi cristina    I understand that you don't think you will ever 'be at my level', they do so much damage to nons that I can't judge another for their reaction to a BPD.  so whatever works    I am beginning to understand that it really is a mental/emotional illness and I've seen them suffer as much as the suffering they create for others.  but that doesn't mean I wish to endure it with them.

personally, I've never found boundaries to help with BPDs, but found them very helpful with other people in my life.  same with emotional honesty in relationships.  but I gave up expecting a BPD to be there for me a loong time ago.

[doubleAries]

Keep in mind that boundaries are to protect your values--not to change the other person's behavior. If you go into it thinking you will change their reaction, then no, it won't work. That's a hard one to grasp at first, because we grew up focused on them, not ourselves. We aren't comfortable with our motives being about ourselves.

[healinghome]

Keep in mind that boundaries are to protect your values--not to change the other person's behavior. If you go into it thinking you will change their reaction, then no, it won't work. That's a hard one to grasp at first, because we grew up focused on them, not ourselves. We aren't comfortable with our motives being about ourselves.

yes, I have to remember that one.  staying centred in my experience.  my life is not about them.  however, I have no power over the reaction of a BPD when my boundries are upheld and that reaction is never good, and from my learning there behaviour worsens.  my solution has been (it seems) the only solution for me and that is nc. but I respect the choices of others.

[rescuenomore]

Yeh i've found boundaries and LC are good for providing myself with some protection and distance from uBPDm's behavior but it definitely isn't changing her.  It's just changing my ability to cope with her by spacing it out more.  I am working to change my responses to her behavior and to be more emotionally detached from her BPD moments but my decision to stay in contact will depend on my ability to do this.  I guess it's a risk aversion thing, if I stay in contact it's hard, if I don't it's also hard but which is healthier.  I wish I could be more like you cristina   

[Katy-Did]

Although I don't believe going NC is the ONLY way, often it becomes the only OPTION... .  left.  "No Contact"  removes the stimulus but it doesn't remove the aftermath.  It's a "flight" response in order to survive --physically, for some; psychologically for most.  Yes, it's an opportunity and should be viewed as such.  An opportunity for grieving, healing, and eventual restoration.  Yet, initiating NC and maintaining NC requires varying levels of determination, resolve and coping strategies.  It's akin to a 12-step program for addiction- especially when the BPD family member(s) attempt to recycle back or we find ourselves pining after them in the twilight hours (metaphorically and literally).  

[doubleAries]

yes, sometimes they do get worse! It's called "extinction burst" (can't find the link for that article right now). It's a desperate attempt to get you to return to the regular routine. But the only person you can change is yourself. It helps to try to remember there is a line there--the difference between you and them. What is your problem and what is their problem. No, it's not always easy, because we think our only defense is defensiveness.