How dark are we painted?

[Inside]

Haven’t posted for awhile (and have never started a thread) ... .  but have continued to read the boards as my choice of personal therapy.  Don’t feel as though I’m a ‘rescuer or fixer,’ but just someone who legitimately fell in love, and we’ve just passed what would have been our two year anniversary – if not for subtracting around 6 months total of NC between recycles  

I’ve no doubt, though ‘undiagnosed,’ my adult gf suffers from ‘high functioning’ BPD, likely with a co-morbid dose of Histrionic PD as well … but it’s quite apparent BPD rules.  And having read countless versions of what I’ve experienced, both laughing and crying, I’ve a question: How dark are we painted?  Have you not only had to make amends with your SO, but basically do the same with their family and friends after your SO has attempted to cut you down?

We met through a network of mutual friends, initially ‘cheering on’ our relationship.  But after around 4 or 5 serious shoves (always initiated by her), I’m no longer hearing from all my friends…  Granted, I’ve been busy, but back ‘together,’ she’s alluded to having told various folks either aspects about myself or comments I’d made that they’d likely feel hurt by.  The kind of honest observations you’d share with your mate – never expecting they’d be repeated as a way of ‘discrediting’ you… 

As we’ve once again reconnected in hopes of moving forward in a relationship both sincerely feel compelled to grow, she’s obviously not including me in her social activities.  What I’m currently experiencing is more of a secrete relationship, as opposed to the open, even flaunted behavior of the past.  I suspect I’ve been painted so ‘black,’ so often, that she can ‘no longer’ be seen with me in public?  And not because of ‘me,’ but because of how she’d look/s after all the crap she’s likely spread to ‘legitimize’ her prior breakups and victim status... . ?  If so, it not only hurts to find my trust having been betrayed, but what kind of relationship can we now build? 

She’s far more concerned with keeping up appearance than I.  I’ve the self esteem to look anyone in the eye, but where and how do we proceed as a couple?  Though she has a stable job (via the ‘high functioning’ aspect of her pd), she’s seriously eluded to ‘just leaving this town’ – ‘moving to somewhere nobody knows you’ (meaning ‘her’ … though now likely including me?). 

Is attacking and attempting to undermine our character their best offence?  Whereas anything said in confidence to me remains there; are they so in need of eliciting the pity of others they’ll betray those closest to them to get it?  And if this has happened before …can I trust the cycle won’t be repeated?  Or, will I have to begin (attempting) to ‘explain BPD’ to those who question our relationship... . ?   

OK – I’ll shut up … and I know ... .  is it worth the effort?  But the great thing is, around here – everyone understands ~  so thanks in advance

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[WillSurvive420]

Dont.settle for.being.an option. Be.someones.priority. I.know.how u feel my exgfwBPD.broke.up w me a month ago today. After wards she said.she was.confused,.needed.time, and that we.didnt.have a r/s.anymore.back and.forth.btwn painting.black and.grey.mostly.black. We.had.sex twice in two weeks after.the.breakup. I dropped her off after to.hang out w her friends who she had.been talking.negatively.about me. I.asked.for a hug,.which wed usually do.outside the.car real quock,.but since her.friends were outside the cat she gave.me a quock pat.and kids.on the cheek. I.know.shes embarrased nc.she told em.i was abusive... . such.bs

[WillSurvive420]

They are.COWaRDs. I dont care.if theyre.ill.they r cowards. Find a rebound and love urself. Give urself time to grieve. I.know. U prob wanna.hear, its just a phase,.but.its not. Its their lifestyle.

[Inside]

Thanks, WillS... . I've also felt as you do now --  What’s extra tuff at the moment is the fact we’re re-connecting after one of our longest stretches apart, around 3 months.  The ‘sweet thing’ seems, though given ample opportunity, neither have ‘seriously’ been with anyone else and are still fixated on each other.  So we’re kinda pussyfooting while attempting to advance the relationship…  Also, I learn far more by listening than I do questioning … so I’m apprehensive about quizzing her on just ‘what she’s said to who?’ – though I hate to speculate

It’s like I’m OK to come around during the week - but when the weekend gets here, she’s got plans – which obviously don’t include me.  I’ve always assumed a level of bad-mouthing had taken place, but am just now wondering how much – and how to rectify it. 

We’re mid-lifers (she’s actually 10 years younger) and it really bothers me to hear her oldest son (an adult) ‘doesn’t think much of me’ … after we’d always connected in a positive way.  Even her mom, who I likely came to love – all three are ‘at the beach’ today – while I’m here  …but regarding her son, my daughters are not so excited about me starting back up with her either

The really difficult part of this is, we’ve seen it all before …but today’s question is: to what extent have I been badmouthed; have others experienced the same; and what kind of dynamics have been created by this negativity (and, did I place this on the correct board  )?  ~ but thanks for your input – it all helps

[waverider]

I’ve a question: How dark are we painted?  Have you not only had to make amends with your SO, but basically do the same with their family and friends after your SO has attempted to cut you down?

That depends on the pwBPD, but it is common for that extent to be extreme at times, to the point of filing false police claims at times for some.

Your best protection is a strong sense of self confidence and self belief. How far do you need to defend yourself to others? If you have that required sense of self then you dont. Others can think what they will. Attempting to "fix" 3rd party impressions will lead you into another world of triangulation which will create a whole new level of stress and tension.

Having said that, it must be acknowledged that to truly reach that position of strength is incredibly hard while dealing with a pwBPD. Outside independent support system to keep you real and grounded is a huge help.

[hellokitty4]

Funny this post came up... .  my BPD close friend started excluding me from any fun stuff... .  we go around the same circle of people. It was not always this way.  It used to be she would go out only when I go. The sudden shift happened when we became emotionally intimate. I guess she could not handle that I now know that the persona she puts out to the other people is quite different from the person I know. Sometimes it makes me feel like I'm the crazy one because the person I know is not the person everyone knows. The others do not see her unstable side and she has made so that I am the unstable one to these people. And she's believable! The people she can badmouth me to do not know me well. Little do they know that she stabs them on their backs too. What she doesn't know is that one of those people is a good friend of mine who does not believe a word she has said. The key for me is having two "secret" friends who look out for me. They know how I am and they clearly know how she is.

She painted me black and then she started excluding me. At first it stung. At first she lied. She said one of the girls did not want me there. A week later she admitted she was the one who didn't want me around when they went out without me the first time. She only excludes me when I'm painted black. So far I'm in the white again... .  thanks to this board and the books I've read I know how to deal with her issues.  I just simply let her be and I go on.  It's very difficult to see the shifts in our friendship. I've learned to keep my distance when she's in some sort of funk and not sweat it because it's really not worth all the trouble. We both need a life apart and together for our relationship to grow. I love her and care for her but I am not as hurt as I used to get. We are still close. For the important life stuff, I'm the one that's with her, the one she confides in, the one she runs to for support... .  not her so-called drinking buddies. BTW, I don't drink so I am better off not being part of that circle. I used to worry about her and how she would get home. But I realized that that is not my responsibility... .  

[waverider]

Funny this post came up... .  my BPD close friend started excluding me from any fun stuff... .  we go around the same circle of people. It was not always this way.  It used to be she would go out only when I go. The sudden shift happened when we became emotionally intimate. I guess she could not handle that I now know that the persona she puts out to the other people is quite different from the person I know. Sometimes it makes me feel like I'm the crazy one because the person I know is not the person everyone knows. The others do not see her unstable side and she has made so that I am the unstable one to these people. And she's believable! The people she can badmouth me to do not know me well. Little do they know that she stabs them on their backs too. What she doesn't know is that one of those people is a good friend of mine who does not believe a word she has said. The key for me is having two "secret" friends who look out for me. They know how I am and they clearly know how she is.

She painted me black and then she started excluding me. At first it stung. At first she lied. She said one of the girls did not want me there. A week later she admitted she was the one who didn't want me around when they went out without me the first time. She only excludes me when I'm painted black. So far I'm in the white again... .  thanks to this board and the books I've read I know how to deal with her issues.  I just simply let her be and I go on.  It's very difficult to see the shifts in our friendship. I've learned to keep my distance when she's in some sort of funk and not sweat it because it's really not worth all the trouble. We both need a life apart and together for our relationship to grow. I love her and care for her but I am not as hurt as I used to get. We are still close. For the important life stuff, I'm the one that's with her, the one she confides in, the one she runs to for support... .  not her so-called drinking buddies. BTW, I don't drink so I am better off not being part of that circle. I used to worry about her and how she would get home. But I realized that that is not my responsibility... .  

Key survival points highlighted in red

Well put, you have to learn to live around it rather than trying change something you have absolutely no control over.

[hellokitty4]

waverider,

this new kind of thinking did not come easy... .  but then it came to a point where I was losing myself too much and I had to snap out of it. I am working on going back to who I used to be... .  unaffected. One day at a time, one step at a time. I let her come to me and so far it's been working in my favor.

[waverider]

waverider,

this new kind of thinking did not come easy... .  but then it came to a point where I was losing myself too much and I had to snap out of it. I am working on going back to who I used to be... .  unaffected. One day at a time, one step at a time. I let her come to me and so far it's been working in my favor.

Even when you have learned a new way of thinking, it is not always easy to walk it without stumbling at times. But at least we have a path, and its the sense of going somewhere, even if it may not always be in a straight line, that brings a sense of reason for continuing the journey

[Inside]

Waverider, thanks;

…well, I’m a fairly legal beagle, but had taken some personal precautions fearing the worst.  Usually, a shove also includes some kind of purposefully hurtful move, like having killed my cell service (on her plan for a small monthly fee and at her suggestion) and costing me my longtime phone #, to instantly blocking my texts and calls to where I couldn’t easily communicate with her…  I’ve assumed such impulsive bursts were suspected to have caused enough pain, thus no need for false accusations. 

I do feel I’ve the self confidence to deflect or answer ‘3rd party’ concerns.  One of which recently gave me about the same advice as you, and you’re no doubt both right.  She suggested I remain ‘myself,’ and that who I really am would shine through ... .  casting doubt on my ‘accuser.’ 

[hellokitty4]

waverider,

this new kind of thinking did not come easy... .  but then it came to a point where I was losing myself too much and I had to snap out of it. I am working on going back to who I used to be... .  unaffected. One day at a time, one step at a time. I let her come to me and so far it's been working in my favor.

Even when you have learned a new way of thinking, it is not always easy to walk it without stumbling at times. But at least we have a path, and its the sense of going somewhere, even if it may not always be in a straight line, that brings a sense of reason for continuing the journey

I agree, waverider. I get soft sometimes but it's getting rarer and rarer.

[Inside]

‘elokitty4 – you say:

“I guess she could not handle that I now know that the persona she puts out to the other people is quite different from the person I know. Sometimes it makes me feel like I'm the crazy one because the person I know is not the person everyone knows.”  -- Wow, that’s definitely an observation I’ve made, too.  It’s also quite a bone of contention, in that, I ‘fell in love’ (believe it or not) with the ‘real her,’ the one she hides from the world and only shows those closest to her.  But when we’re in public, and she’s glowing while promoting her false self …it nearly makes me sick.  I’ve always felt she lacks self confidence thus makes a massive effort to over-compensate in public.  What I ‘tried’ to do was let her know she didn’t have to put on a fake front - that ‘I had her back’ and that she could become more reserved …while letting some of her true feelings out.  If her friends couldn’t handle the real her, depicting a false persona’s not fair to either.  As many of her friends are also ‘my friends,’ they picked up on our apparent ‘disconnect,’ the fact I wasn’t grinning with glee while she waved her arms describing some exaggerated event she felt would impress the crowed.  …Granted, I have mentioned the ‘Histrionic PD’ aspect …and though BPD appears to trump it, she’s also driven to flamboyant behavior…

“The others do not see her unstable side and she has made so that I am the unstable one to these people. And she's believable!”  -- Exactly, yes, ‘friends’ look at us, see her glowing performance and nearly applaud …as I sit there attempting to conceal a grimace knowing this is pure BS.  

“For the important life stuff, I'm the one that's with her, the one she confides in, the one she runs to for support... .  not her so-called drinking buddies.”  --  Me, too.  But what I’ve noticed is she’ll give me the shove – then hunt me down after she’s messed up her life a bit further.  But I’ve also noticed I’m never invited back as close to family or friends.  She just recently requested we keep our seeing each other ‘a secrete.’  …which here again, like time and time before… actually writing this down looks pretty dismal.  If each time she shoves me off to chase her demons, I’m also painted another coat of bad …what clearly appears to me is that she can’t allow me back due to the doubt it would cause among those she’s tried to rally around her…

I’ve now posted on all four of the relationship boards: trying; not sure; leaving & gone …each time wondering why I make the effort.  And, as ‘messed up’ as she’s likely described me, she’s always the one who initiates the recycle.  

“BTW, I don't drink so I am better off not being part of that circle. I used to worry about her and how she would get home. But I realized that that is not my responsibility... .  ” --  :)rinking is definitely more important to her than to me …I’ve actually come to view it as the way she numbs herself to intimacy or temporally bolsters her self esteem.  I recently described to her the dilemma I feel when caring so much for her, yet watching all the potentially dangerous things she does.  As mentioned, high functioning … but still potentially career, if not life ending impulsive stupidity…  

…shaking my head sideways here… likely leaving here with the usual feeling of what have I gotten myself into    - but thank you ~

[wdone]

Haven’t posted for awhile (and have never started a thread) ... .  but have continued to read the boards as my choice of personal therapy.  Don’t feel as though I’m a ‘rescuer or fixer,’ but just someone who legitimately fell in love, and we’ve just passed what would have been our two year anniversary – if not for subtracting around 6 months total of NC between recycles  

I’ve no doubt, though ‘undiagnosed,’ my adult gf suffers from ‘high functioning’ BPD, likely with a co-morbid dose of Histrionic PD as well … but it’s quite apparent BPD rules.  And having read countless versions of what I’ve experienced, both laughing and crying, I’ve a question: How dark are we painted?  Have you not only had to make amends with your SO, but basically do the same with their family and friends after your SO has attempted to cut you down?

We met through a network of mutual friends, initially ‘cheering on’ our relationship.  But after around 4 or 5 serious shoves (always initiated by her), I’m no longer hearing from all my friends…  Granted, I’ve been busy, but back ‘together,’ she’s alluded to having told various folks either aspects about myself or comments I’d made that they’d likely feel hurt by.  The kind of honest observations you’d share with your mate – never expecting they’d be repeated as a way of ‘discrediting’ you… 

As we’ve once again reconnected in hopes of moving forward in a relationship both sincerely feel compelled to grow, she’s obviously not including me in her social activities.  What I’m currently experiencing is more of a secrete relationship, as opposed to the open, even flaunted behavior of the past.  I suspect I’ve been painted so ‘black,’ so often, that she can ‘no longer’ be seen with me in public?  And not because of ‘me,’ but because of how she’d look/s after all the crap she’s likely spread to ‘legitimize’ her prior breakups and victim status... . ?  If so, it not only hurts to find my trust having been betrayed, but what kind of relationship can we now build? 

She’s far more concerned with keeping up appearance than I.  I’ve the self esteem to look anyone in the eye, but where and how do we proceed as a couple?  Though she has a stable job (via the ‘high functioning’ aspect of her pd), she’s seriously eluded to ‘just leaving this town’ – ‘moving to somewhere nobody knows you’ (meaning ‘her’ … though now likely including me?). 

Is attacking and attempting to undermine our character their best offence?  Whereas anything said in confidence to me remains there; are they so in need of eliciting the pity of others they’ll betray those closest to them to get it?  And if this has happened before …can I trust the cycle won’t be repeated?  Or, will I have to begin (attempting) to ‘explain BPD’ to those who question our relationship... . ?   

OK – I’ll shut up … and I know ... .  is it worth the effort?  But the great thing is, around here – everyone understands ~  so thanks in advance

this is so well-put, and i relate to it all! 

i can't even tell you how similar it is to my bf and relationship.  i get so frustrated when he'll say so and so doesn't really like me, or doesn't think i am good for him--and i'm like, uuuummmm, why? 

and he'll say how he has told him or her "all the bad things about me, and us" and i say, "like WHAT?"

and depending on the day, he will either be stumped (usually the case)

or

come up with a bunch of projections of his issues, or fears that he has that are not real.

but, basically, most of his friends and now his family (many of whom i've never met) think i'm all sorts of bad and wrong that i am not.

it's so sad, and very hard to have a functioning relationship and life when he's creating all of this... .  

i feel for you.

i think my bf does it to "confirm/validate" his lies and fears to avoid intimacy. he gets allies on his side to support his distorted reality in his mind... .  so he can leave relationships and "be safe."

over time--years--a lot of his friends have pulled me aside to let me know they, as they say, they "know he's the crazy one."

[bruceli]

Inside,

Drinking is definitely more important to her than to me …I’ve actually come to view it as the way she numbs herself to intimacy or temporally bolsters her self esteem.  I recently described to her the dilemma I feel when caring so much for her, yet watching all the potentially dangerous things she does.  As mentioned, high functioning … but still potentially career, if not life ending impulsive stupidity… 

It's as if we are talking about the same person.  BPDw does the same.  Self medication for sure and she evens said so... .  but for her at this point to come to realization that she is that sick is too much for her to bare right now.  She knows she is but is afraid at having to change.  Unfortunately, as with most, she will need to hit some sort of rock bottom I feel.

[Inside]

Wdone, you said:

“i think my bf does it to "confirm/validate" his lies and fears to avoid intimacy. he gets allies on his side to support his distorted reality in his mind... .  so he can leave relationships and "be safe."

“over time--years--a lot of his friends have pulled me aside to let me know they, as they say, they “know he's the crazy one.”  --  I’ve assumed it’s something they all do … as the pattern continues…  And what an insidious condition; falling in love, fearing the loss of that love, making it happen, then attempting to legitimize leaving by claiming what a ‘bad person’ they’d fallen in love with?  Yes, crazy making! 

It’s weird how I turn to these boards when needing to be reminded of just how mixed up & messed up this can get.  In ‘tough times,’ it's made me laugh at how we can all relate to such crazy behavior, with only slightly different details.  But I’ll even do some reading in the ... . good times - anymore, to remind myself what I’m actually dealing with and to be on guard for more of the same, if perhaps with a twist ~

But there appears to be little new under the sun with my friend, and if anything, the pattern repeats itself faster and faster as our time apart grows longer and longer…  Time will tell, and what I think has become apparent to those willing to confide in me is that her ... . faulty thinking and foolish behavior is catching up with her. 

‘Right now,’ after a sincere desire to get back into her life, and welcome her into mine, she had a ‘three-day weekend’ in which I was not invited to anything.  I likely want more from this relationship than she can provide, and after painting the both of us into a corner – I may have to make some tracks through her wet paint.  What a mess ~

[Inside]

Bruceli, you said:

“It's as if we are talking about the same person.  BPDw does the same.  Self medication for sure and she evens said so... .  but for her at this point to come to realization that she is that sick is too much for her to bare right now.  She knows she is but is afraid at having to change.  Unfortunately, as with most, she will need to hit some sort of rock bottom I feel.”

She claims to have recently seen two therapists, in the time we were last apart.  Prior to that, I’d carefully described my assumptions of BPD -- and was met with instant (angry) denial(!).  All I asked was that she look into it…  She claims both T’s ‘told her she doesn’t have that’ …but that she has something else.  I asked if it was ‘Bi-Polar,’ knowing that’s often the misdiagnosed or substituted diagnosis for BPD (as I’ve heard insurance companies are reluctant to pay for BPD treatment considering it incurable - and that ‘Bi-polar’ is thought to be curable).  My assumption is that she used three ‘free’ employee assistant plan visits, yet didn’t search for a T trained or experienced in BPD.  I also suspect she sat there and denied every trait... .   And, suspect that either T may not have wanted to tackle or 'label' her with something she was apparently quite sensitive to…  

I’m no expert (though often feel like one... . ), but have read Randi Kreger’s book, The Essential Family Guide To BPD, twice, having recently begun the third reading... .  I’ve also felt that the so-called, ‘Higher-functioning BPD’s’ get left out of a lot of diagnostic literature…  And, as I’d mentioned earlier about my strong suspicion of a Histrionic PD as well ... .  she’s quite a blend.  But, she’s doing some work on the ‘Co-dependency’ one of them found, if now on her own.  But I fear she’s a long long (long... . ) way to go…  I’m willing to go there with her, but don’t know how much more I should give and give-up in the process   It’s been two years that have felt far more like five!  But thank goodness I was old enough to have already had a family … I needn’t read far around here to learn how much more painful this could be…  But, there’s something about them we love, and though it’s occasionally described as a deficiency within ourselves ~  so be it?