To go hard core on school attendance or not... gah

[mom2bkl]

Okay... .   I don't know who else to ask as everyone in my "normal" life just doesn't get it... .   but my dd18 BPD is in her last 35 days of high school... .   it is absolute HELL getting her to go to school! She is on track to graduate if she just passes everything! She is an incredibly bright young lady who just DOESN'T GO TO SCHOOL! We have tried consequences off and on and you all know how well that works... .   but she swears she is going to graduate and knowing her devious ways and ability to pull it out at the last second she probably will. My question is at this stage of the game I want to go hard core by taking her phone away or car... .   for when she doesn't go to school. I told her she is pushing us into a corner and consequences will be next and should have at that time come up with what they would be... .   last night she told me she was staying at a girlfriends which I can guarantee is a total lie and she is with her boyfriend who isn't her boyfriend because he doesn't trust her... .   gahh... .   and isn't at school again! I am thinking of turning her phone off for 12-24 hours per period missed or 12-24  hours of car gone due to noncompliance... .   what do you think? Do you think I would just be setting myself up for a nightmare and her pushing back to the point of dropping out or missing more school... .   or have any of you had any luck with school compliance issues/consequences? DH is on board with whatever... .   he is so sick of it all that he has just pulled away from her and just basically feels like the natural consequences to her actions will follow her... .   which is so true... .   but its SOO hard for me when she is literally in the home stretch! Thank you in advance for your help! Feeling like crazy momma today!   :'(

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Kate4queen]

This is so difficult.

If you can see a short term way to get her through graduation, then obviously, imo, you need to go for it.

But forcing confrontations over her phone, grounding etc might give her the excuse Not to comply and finish school just to spite you. (I've been there).

Natural consequences are obviously the best, but in your situation, if I had to contemplate the fall out if she doesn't graduate and summer school and... .   ? then I'd be looking for a solution just to get her through too.

Is there any way you could think of a positive way to get her through this? Like $ for completing school? Or something she's wanted for a while but can't afford? A trip to the mall? What does she like to do? I know you probably feel more like strangling her than rewarding her at this point but it might be worth trying.

In conjunction with that, I'd also try and sit her down and quietly and firmly go through why she needs to graduate, the consequences if she fails and how you know she can do it. Sometimes with my son I did this and it made him think about his choices, usually he still chose not to comply, but at least I knew I'd set it out for him and given him the opportunity to make the right decision.

Good luck!

[Vivgood]

Is there any way you could think of a positive way to get her through this?

  yes.  Not in a "if you quit f-ing up and actually graduate, we'll give you 100$" way, more in a "we know how terrifying it is to be facing such a huge change, and how it can feel like just too much stress and pressure to finally finish school... .   we admire that you've come this far and think a post-grad gesture of appreciation would be appropriate. What do you think ywould be a good idea?" way. And keep it fairly low-key, not a convo focused on this but as it comes up naturally.

In conjunction with that, I'd also try and sit her down and quietly and firmly go through why she needs to graduate, the consequences if she fails and how you know she can do it. Sometimes with my son I did this and it made him think about his choices, usually he still chose not to comply, but at least I knew I'd set it out for him and given him the opportunity to make the right decision.

She already knows this and feels the weight of it like a ton of bricks.  I'd try to understand and acknowledge that, not add another brick.

yeah, BTDT. DD graduated because I dragged her squirrelly a$$ to the HS/college for class each day and picked her up. we got massages after graddyation (I needed one too  )

vivgood

[jellibeans]

This has been a real struggle for my dd15 and at times I don't think I reacted right... .   I punished and grounded etc... . took away phone and on and on but the truth is that my dd was struggling just to get through every day... .   so I suggest that you back off and let her fail if that is what is going to happen... .   it won't be the end of the world but knowing that she is pretty smart I bet she has it all figured out and is going to graduate.

I have a senior and I swear they are doing a whole lot of nothing right now in school... .   so if you feel better I think you should sit her down and say "you know I think I have been way out of line here trying to nag you to go to school... .   you are 18 and I trust you have your act together and I am looking forward to celebrating with you" tell her you are not going to hold her hand anymore... .   she needs to be responsible for herself and although this will be the hardest thing for you to do... .   you need to do it. I like vivgood approach... .   the hardest thing to do is stop worrying about our kids but at the same time I think it sends a message to them that we think " you can't do it without my help" "you are a loser" I think the person with BPD hear these kinds of messages in their head everyday. Good luck... .   take a deep breathe... .   breakout the kleenex for the ceremony... . or better yet a big glass of wine! Cheers!

[js friend]

When my dd was taking her final exams at school she was soo stressed out that she literally forgot everything she has learnt and had to be led out of the hall in tears. She was so disappointed in herself that she cried for days afterwards.   

Taking away the phone or car from your dd  may just add to your dd's stress levels and she wont perform so well. I have found that it works better with my dd if i praise her and  reward her efforts. I think it is a good idea to have that serious talk about the importance of graduating but leave it there. Dont go on and on about it. If anything it maybe better to downplay your anxiety.

[mom2bkl]

Thank you soo much for all your replies... .   Kate4Queen... .   thank you for making me smile... .   it was exactly what I needed!

And, I totally agree that we need to downplay the anxiety... .   as it only amps her up more. She did come home today and show me the on-line course she is doing and is actually on track... .   and kind of seems dedicated to making it happen. I tried to praise her a lot and tell her that as bright as she is she could be unstoppable if she tried. I did also ask her if she understood why I am frustrated and she said... .   yes, I do... .   so I left it at that and we will take one day at a time.

I totally have tried doing/getting her things that will be appealing to her but she is so focused on "now" that she seems to have zero foresight! I bought concert tickets to one of her favorite bands in September... .   but it is so far out that it doesn't even seem to cross her radar

Anyhow... .   trying to be mindful and let the poop fly by without too much splattering... .   and we WILL get through this. At this point we can't even discuss next fall ... .   baby steps baby steps... .   THANK YOU soo much for the advice... .   keep it coming... .   you all are helping us so very much! Hugs!

[sunshineplease]

So close, and yet so far. Been there! Still there (though now in RTC, doing it online... .   or not!). At one point, short-term, money was a great motivator for my daughter. And while I have to say I'm a fan of natural consequences -- and so wish I'd understood that the dire warnings the therapists were giving me about letting her fail would only result in putting off the inevitable -- but 35 days? I have to say I'd be tempted, then never again. But that's what addicts always say. :-)

You've had some great advice, to which I would just add: Validate like hell. The Lundbergs's book might put your mind at ease a bit.

Best of luck, and hugs from CT.

[griz]

I can only tell you that in April of 11th grade it just got to the point where school was tearing my DD to pieces.  It was the most stressful part of her life and I didn't think she would make it through the year, much less survive 12th grade.  She had an IEP so we called an emergency SED meeting and told them that it was impossible for DD to go to school and we asked for home tutoring.  Of course at first they said NO, but my dh wasn't going to stand for that, in the middle of the meeting he asked the director of SED what she would do if a child had a physical illness that prohibited them from attending school, would they be entitled to a tutor.  Of course the answer was yes.  He then very calmly said, my daughter has an illness also and she is entitled to an education that meets her needs the same as a child with a physical illness.  We had done our homework and had a letter both from her T and her P saying that home tutoring for the remainder of the year was in her best interest.  We had previously spoken to the school social worker letting her know what we wanted and she was on board.  Well guess what,  DD got home tutoring.  She finished 11th grade and did wonderful on all her regents and her two AP exams.  Thanks to a wonderful and innovative principal after seeing how well she did, he called another emergency SED meeting and told both guidance counselor and the social worker to figure out what DD would need to complete her Senior year over the summer since it was crystal clear to him that for DD the school environment was a terrible trigger for her.

She went to school over the summer for 6 weeks from 8:30am-12pm and graduated high school.  Summer school was hard, but not as hard and we validated how hard it was for her all the time.  We offered her any support she thought would help and she did it.  Schools can make things happen very often that they say they can't and if the school won't help call you school board president. Explain what your DD needs and ask them to speak with the administration.

My DD still has her issues but she is just finishing her first year in college.  It isn't always easy for her but getting her out of that triggering environment sure helped.

Griz

[twojaybirds]

been there too.  My dd was 18 in March and blew out ft the house... . sleeping on the streets and in holes shelters.

On her own since she was nc with me, she contacted the school and finished school via Nova Net  an on-line credit recovery her school sometimes used.

You could talk to the school however if she resists there is nothing you can do.  I realized a high school diploma was not her answer to happiness by that time and actually graduating put her into that state that she is great, there was nothing wrong with her, so screw the rest of us.  Of course this euphoria was short lived. 

Good luck and know there are many decisions outside of your control, no matter how hard as we parents we try to create the best scenario.

[Thursday]

Such a difficult place to be.

My take is a little bit different, probably because my pwBPD is no longer in school (she is 21)

Looking back, I wish we had struggled less to keep SD going to school, had less fights, had given up less of our lives to try and keep her on track and wish we had more allowed natural consequences.

But... .   (big LOUD but) when their futures seem to be hanging in the balance it's so hard to consider natural consequences. High, high anxiety to consider your precious child out there in the world operating without a diploma.

IF we had left BPDSD21 to her own devices while she was in high school she never would have gone. It is clear she didn't pay attention or do her work and she passed and graduated, nevertheless. This doesn't send a very good message. It honestly made her feel vindicated... .   you know... .  

"I told you so!" was her position after she walked the stage.

She started community college in the fall after she graduated and hardly ever went to class. The natural consequence of this was academic probation. However, we footed the sizeable bill for this endevor. And, maybe wrong, I logic that had she suffered the natural consequences for not getting herself up and to school when a teen, she may not have wasted so much of our money for college. She had no interest in going. She still has no interest. She continues with the "lie and worry about it later" model that she learned in highschool.

I would not be allowing use of a car if your daughter can't get herself to school. (I am, however, assuming that you are allowing use of a car that is yours.) This is more a personal paradigm than a parenting technique. I just don't believe that a teenager needs a car unless they have a job or are fulfilling a needed role within the family structure (say driving younger sibs to school and activities or helping parents in some way).

My SD was given a car (she had a job) during high school. She still has the car but no longer works. Her life has devolved to being a total mooch for her every need. Currently she has an unpaid speeding ticket. She had the money for the ticket from her income tax return but used it for something frivolous instead. Two days ago she posted on facebook that she was speeding again (didn't get caught this time) as if this means nothing and is something to brag about.

We are now considering what to do if she is pulled over again with an unpaid ticket. She will be arrested... .   do we bail her out? do we pay her ticket to avoid this happening? We are trying not to enable her. What if we had been less enabling to her while she was in high school? What if I had not banged on her door to wake her up every morning? (and lather, rinse, repeat until my hand hurt)

I find I have much fewer regrets when I don't enable than when I do. I find that when I consider the times SD has suffered natural consequences she sometimes gets the picture quicker than if she doesn't... .   not saying she always gets it... .   this is one of her biggest issues (not learning from her mistakes) but for sure she learns nothing if we enable (except how to better manipulate the situation for her own needs). Oh yeah, and entitlement.

Soo much entitlement.

Thursday

[lbjnltx]

Hello mom2bkl!

I had this convo w/my d16 last Wednesday night on the ride home from her boyfriend's house.  We were discussing the situation of a friend of hers... .   due to graduate May 31 and not wanting to go to school. 

When my d came home from 9.5 months of rtc she did neurofeedback therapy.  Originally set up 30 sessions.  As we neared session #29 the therapist suggested she had made a great deal of progress and really needed 10 more sessions to complete the training.  I set up the convo w/her like this:

Let's say you have spent countless hours working on a project, you have worked really hard and invested yourself thus far a great deal.  You are 80% done and then you find out you missed part of the assignment.  Would you find within yourself the energy to finish the assignment or throw away all that you invested?

In the end she did the extra sessions.

So, back to the friend.  My d said if it were her she would finish the school year and get that degree that she had invested 3.85 years earning.

During a time of calm/balance perhaps presenting it this way to your d will 1. keep the responsibility for finishing where it belongs (with her)  2. empower her by pointing out she has accomplished this much already  3. send the message that you believe she can do this.

As far as taking away privileges such as the car or the phone:  When these privileges were given to her what responsibility did she fulfill to earn them to begin with?  What conditions are tied to these privileges?

When my d does not earn a privilege by fulfilling the responsibility she doesn't get it.  I am not taking away that privilege from her... .   she didn't earn it.

It is important that the privilege is closely tied to the responsibility.  For example, going to a friends house is a privilege.  If my d doesn't go to school she doesn't earn the privilege that day of going to a friends house.  When she attends school the following day she can go to a friend's house as long as all of her makeup work is done.

As Thursday pointed out, enabling can be a problem as well.  Sometimes my d doesn't want to go to church with us on Sunday morning.  She wants us to drop her off at her boyfriends' house on our way.  Attending church is a family value.  I don't force her to go and I don't enable her not to either. We recently went through a period of several weeks when she wanted to engage in a circular argument about this.  I just state our family value (going to church) and state that I won't enable her not to go.  She would say we were forcing her to go to church.  When she would ask "if someone comes and gets me can I go to boyfriend's house?"  I would say "yes".  I'm neither forcing nor enabling.  Not once has she found anyone to come and pick her up.  She has missed church once or twice in the last 3 months.  The cycle has been broken and we don't have that convo anymore.  She has finally accepted this boundary and stopped running up against it.  Standing firm and strong without becoming angry or frustrated is important (so that you can continue to stand firm and strong ).

I hope these examples help give you some clarity on the subtle differences between punishment  (taking things away) and earned priviliges, keeping the responsibility where it belongs... .   with her.  None of this is easy (especially in the beginning stages) yet it is empowering for both parties.

lbjnltx

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[heronbird]

Hi, In my opinion, school is the very worse place for someone with BPD. It is an invalidating place where you are just a number. The rules are often not consistent. People with BPD can feel like they are being picked on for no good reason too.

Its not a good place for being valued, since my older children have got jobs, I can see how much more valued they are at work, not only because they earn money just because their employers say thank you them, they do have a quick meeting every Friday and they get clapped, often the one who sold the most or did the best gets some sort of small reward. I can see how much that means to my older children.

I went on a course about BPD recently and they had a slide that listed the things that make a person with BPD worse, they were all the things that my daughter struggled with at school.

So, I wish I was more helpful to my daughter when she was at school and hated it.  I was not as understanding as I would be now.

If only I knew then what I know now. Thats a good saying for me/us

[mom2bkl]

Update... .   well, the inevitable phone call came yesterday from the school counselor that DD18 is in jeopardy of not graduating... .   no surprise there! She is possibly 0.25 credits short... .   seriously? But they are trying very hard to get her into an on-line math class that will give her that in a short period of time. Anyhow... .   we had a big sit down last night... .   starting with lots of validation that she CAN do this! We told her that using her car under our insurance is a privilege and privileges are for kids who go to school and who are engaged. She will go to all 7 classes for the next 30 days if she would like to continue having this privilege. Otherwise the car will be removed until she can take out an insurance policy on her own.

We also told her once graduation occurs we will revisit her living situation. We are aware she is back smoking weed and she will begin being tested and if that is the life she is choosing she will be asked to leave. She actually had the audacity to ask... .   what if I got a medical marijuana card? We told her you are completely welcome to do that but you will not be living here if that is the life you choose! She actually didn't freak out, was up and dressed this morning for school with a smile on her face... .   how many days can this last I ask myself! I want to be hopeful but I know you all know the other shoe dropping feeling at the same time! Wish us luck:)

[lbjnltx]

Awesome news and way to go MOM!

Keep the responsibility where it belongs going forward.  Be careful not to get caught up in all or nothing/black and white thinking should she faulter. 

PwBPD are highly perseptive so keep a positive, eaven keel in your interactions with her (verbal/non verbal).

Step back and watch her succeed!

lbjnltx

[jellibeans]

mom2bkl

I think this is great... .   I hope she can hold it together... .   it is in her court now! I just want to add that smoking weed does change ones motivation to do things... .   maybe you could point that out to her? not sure it will help but maybe she can see the connection and how it has impacted her decisions... .   keep us posted... .    

[muffetbuffet]

SCHOOL... .  actually a bad word in our house   We have two children and our oldest is at college.  Our DD recently turned 16 and it takes everything we have to get her out of the house every morning.  We have set a time for leaving the house (husband drops her at school to avoid the drama on the bus and also to see her physically walk into the school).  She pushes that time almost everyday.  As a reward for getting out of the house on time, she can earn an extra 1/2 hour of phone time on the weekend.  IF she is on time all week, she gets 2 1/2 hours!  Some days it works beautifully and other days we almost drag her out of the house.  I finally called her principal last week and explained that we are no longer providing any excuses for her if she is late or refuses to go to school unless we approve of the absence (dr appt... .  ).  Principal agreed and shared what would happen if there are anymore illegal absences and that includes a trip to the magistrate, fine and possible loss of driving permit.  We shared that with daughter and made it clear that we will not be paying the fine for her if she gets one. Does not seem to make any difference to daughter as she thinks she can just pay fine with savings account  money.  NOT!

We have found our school to be very willing to work with us fortunately.  As we all know, our kids are a high risk for dropping out of high school.  Due to huge issues last school year, we are repeating 9th grade this year.  Working with the school, we have worked out a plan to include one summer school class and then moving to 11th grade in the fall.  This will allow daughter to attend our vocational program for half a day.  Praying that this is the key to getting her to graduation.  Hang on everyone.  Summer is almost here!

[mom2bkl]

Just figured after all your help I would say we are hanging on by the skin of our teeth! The real anxiety has hit... .  14 school days... .  and she is realizing how many assignments she hasn't turned in! So... .  deep breath for this momma... .  validation... .  validation... .  validation... .  oh and a little spoiling! She called earlier today completely stressed out that "I don't think I can do this... .  I don't know if I can go to school today"... .  told her she can and when she does I will take her for a little stress reliever... .  a hydromassage... .  its a cheap way to help take the top off! I know this is soo hard on her right now... .  and we have been keeping to our word... .  car gone for 24-hours if she misses any periods of school... .  a couple of times she has actually chosen this... .  but given the keys up without a fight. Just called from school and said she got her cap and gown today and sounded so excited... .  so the timing couldn't have been better! Thanks for all your thoughts and encouragement... .  we WILL do this!

[lbjnltx]

Awesome!

[mggt]

Dear mom2,  Great news one hurdle done with yay 

[jellibeans]

one day at a time... .  

[griz]

Hooray for both of you   

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders