I Admit It, I Look Forward to the Recycling...

[Katy-Did]

It's been 5 years since the FOO "break-up".  I'm slowly learning how to respond to the recycling in a healthy manner but I must admit, I look forward to the opportunities recycling can bring.

Just a bit of background to help w/perspective... .    I'm an only child who grew up with emotionally stable parents.  Growing up, we moved around a lot and although we routinely spent vacations visiting family, we never "lived" around them.  Our family relations remained in the "honeymoon" phase, so-to-speak. You know how it goes... .  everyone is on their best behavior for 4 - 5 days then you leave and go back to being yourself again.  Likewise, I've been married to a dBPD for over 20 years.  No children.  He's medicated, regulated and despite his occasional "bouts",  functions fair-thee-well.  Not so say we don't have challenges but our relationship is consistent and for the most part, satisfying.  Our retirement preparations brought us to a small, rural community where several members of my FOO reside.  Part of the reasoning behind this decision was to build some long-standing relationships w/family.  Go figure. 

Here's the part I'm a bit hesitant to admit but it's truthful and honorable--

What brought me to the BPD Family was NOT BPDh, it was my relationship w/uBPD FOO.  As I perused the Boards, I found myself relating more to the emotional descriptions found on the Leaving Board  (Detaching from Wounds of a Failed  BPD Relationship) than anywhere else.  Isn't that odd?  I find that odd.  Emotional enmeshment can occur w/family members, as well, I guess.

Yes, I have boundaries in place and when my FOO initiates some type of contact, I remain pretty consistent but my emotions flair to some degree.  I'm better w/each recycling but I continue to experience an accelerated rate of hope.  Yes, hope. Is that an indication of unmet expectations?  Perhaps.  Someone on the Leaving Board called it "Malignant Nostalgia".   Likewise, when they ease away and resume LC, I don't sink so low w/disappointment.  However, I miss them and I think that's okay. 

This latest recycling episode was the most successful, I believe.  I was able to enjoy the interaction w/o setting an agenda and as it came to a close, my "blue" mood wasn't so dark... .  more of a "Azure".  ;-)

Any thoughts? 

[Katy-Did]

Greetings!  I checked-in hoping to read a response or two but... .  alas, there was none.  I appreciate those who read the above but may I encourage you to comment.     The BPD Family is a comforting forum where we can ask questions, share comments and concerns.  And, like many,  I seek input.  It helps to maintain a healthy perspective (reality check, in my case) and provides an opportunity learn from others' experiences.  

So... .  let's try another approach.    More Socratic in nature.  As an adult, have you ever been emotionally enmeshed w/family members?  If so, how did you handle it?   When NC/LC and they start to recycle, has it ever progressed to an amended relationship?  (Can you tell I still maintain a measure of hope?)

[DaughterofDD]

Hi Katy-did 

I guess I'm not quite sure what you're asking.  Also, there are some jargon, etc. that are different between the boards of a chosen relationship vs. ones that we didn't choose, so I don't know exactly what you mean by recycling.  Is this the cycle of the BPD behavior and how you fit into that i.e. your reactions?

It took me a long time to finally give up all "hope" with my uBPDm, but I'm pretty sure there's not much left there.  Part of that process was that I had to go completely NC and detach and leave my needs and hopes for what I wanted in a mother to be at the curb.  She will not get better no matter how much I want or need her to do so.  For me, there is no healthy manner in which to have a relationship with her. 

So yes, I was enmeshed with my mother because I was a child and had no other choice.  It took me a long time as an adult to finally see how sick it was.  However, she used and abused that relationship until I could not take the abuse of it anymore.  She still tries and even now uses grandchildren to work her angle, but I will not allow my children to even see how a mother should not treat her children let alone let them get sucked into the nonsense and abuse that she is only capable of giving.     

You can be as healthy as you want, but if the other person is not willing to take a hard look and make necessary changes on their own, then your continued relationship will never truly be healthy.   You are only responsible for your behavior, and they are only responsible for their own. 

[arabella]

Katy-Did - I loved your 'bump' post! I'm new to this particular board so a bit gun-shy with posting, but I read your bump and decided to dive in.

I'm not at as healthy a place as you are yet. I'm still at the stage of learning how to UN-enmesh myself in the first place. There are a lot of layers to wade through and a lot of things that I just didn't really see until recently. I think I'm doing okay, but I'm watching the mess that some of my FOO is struggling with (they're all non's so far as I can tell) and enmeshment is a problem - especially for my codependent mother. I want to help, but I know I can't.

My main pwBPD is my husband. However, his father is also NPD/BPD and his parents are so completely enmeshed it's like they're one person. His sister is also a pwBPD. H is the only one diagnosed as such, his sister keeps getting different diagnoses but not BPD (though it's fairly clear to me that's the most fitting). A right disaster all-round there. Anyway, back to the topic at hand... .  

Quite a few years ago, H was seeing a T who finally got H to see that his FOO was never going to change. Nothing H did would ever be good enough for them. They would never be happy with his choice in being with me nor any other choice he ever made. T's advice was this: you have two choices, either (a) go NC and just move on with your own life; or (b) go LC and radically accept who and what they are and protect yourself by detaching. H chose option B. The r/s with his family is... .  strained. I don't think they really get it. They know H doesn't speak to them much and that upsets them, but they have zero self-awareness. We get recycled regularly. I could say the r/s improved, but only in the sense that our involvement and attitudes changed. It's easier for me now because I've detached entirely from their little sphere. I just do not care one whit what they think. I do not get involved and I do not try to change or fix anything with them. H is struggling more and that is much harder for me to deal with.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that, yes, it can improve. But it improves because you improve. It's very much independent of them. There's also some hope that your new way of interacting or reacting might 'train' them into better behaviour. I mean, enmeshment has to go both ways - someone can't stay enmeshed with you if you refuse to be enmeshed with them, right?

[Cordelia]

Yeah I just wasn't sure what you meant by recycling and it seems like your situation is pretty different from mine... .  

[ScarletOlive]

Hey Katy-Did,

There's a difference between relationship recycling where we keep going back into dysfunctional relationships and setting boundaries where we create a safe space in our relationships. We're hardwired to love our family, so that's okay. The problem comes in when we don't take care of ourselves or set poor boundaries in those relationships, leading to emotional enmeshment. As kids, we had no choice. As adults though, the awesome thing is we have the power to change it.

How much contact do you have with your FOO? What would you like out of your relationship with them?

[Katy-Did]

DaugherofDD:  I appreciate how you differentiated between relationships of choice and those we're "born" into. I imagine most who post on this Board fall into the second category (like yourself). My exposure to BPD began when I chose to get involved w/BPD---FOO included.  Yours started in childhood which makes your comments regarding responsibility even more poignant, imo.     

You can be as healthy as you want, but if the other person is not willing to take a hard look and make necessary changes on their own, then your continued relationship will never truly be healthy.   You are only responsible for your behavior, and they are only responsible for their own.  

arabella:  I'm so glad you decided to "dive-in".     We share similar challenges--enmeshment,  married to a pwBPD and family members w/BPD.  Those same commonalities is what "drew me in" to the relationship w/my FOO in the first place.  I think your H's therapist is right.  Go NC--- but if you want to have contact (a) limit the contact (b) detach emotionally (c) limit your expectations (d) keep firm boundaries.  

... . you have two choices, either (a) go NC and just move on with your own life; or (b) go LC and radically accept who and what they are and protect yourself by detaching. . ... . they have zero self-awareness. We get recycled regularly. I could say the r/s improved, but only in the sense that our involvement and attitudes changed.

Cordelia:  Like DaughterofDD, I imagine most on the "Family Board" have experienced the effects of BPD since childhood.  For many here, there was no choice.  Therefore, I hope you are progressing in your journey and I appreciate you reading the thoughts posted here.  

ScarletOlive:

As adults though, the awesome thing is we have the power to change it.

How much contact do you have with your FOO? What would you like out of your relationship with them?

More thoughts to process... .

[Katy-Did]

Response Con't... .

ScarletOlive:  Thank you for inquiring about Frequency and Expectations. 

Frequency:  Prior to NC?  We saw each other at least once a week for about 5 years... . socially, recreationally and work-related.   We didn't see/hear from them for over a year... . except the eldest son (20-something, uBPD) He kept in touch off-n-on.  Currently, contact varies--once a month to once every six months.  Every now and again, she'll stop by where I work for a few minutes.  The uBPD-H and uBPD-S will see my dBPD-H at the clubhouse and end up buying one another a drink.  Occasionally, I'll run into someone at the gas station or grocery store.  Interactions are entirely spontaneous, "happenstance" occurrences... . except for the most recent.

During a gathering, as everyone was leaving, I was invited to see all the changes they've made to their home. Now, mind you, I haven't been there in 5 years.  I stayed 30 minutes---not too long, but long enough.   It was the first, purposeful act... . to interact in a long time.  Needless to say, I was pleased. 

EXPECTATIONS:   After being around them for a while, we got caught up in their NON/BPD dynamic.   After all, it was familiar. During 5 years of holidays, work projects, cook-outs, and social events patterns developed.  Yet, with each "issue", we were able to work through it. (Or, so I thought.)  I started to gain more and more confidence this family thing was going to work out.   With the confidence... . came the expectations---but in very specific areas.  If we were willing to "accept" their BPD-ness---certainly they were going to accept ours.  After all, we're kinsmen, right? 

Hurt... . anger... . bitterness.  It's better now.  With each "happenstance" encounter, I practice detachment--despite the flood of memories--- and focus on the boundaries looking forward to next time... .



Thanks to all who read this thread.  Take care... .