Lectures from pwBPD

[Chosen]

My pwBPD admittedly has raged a lot less these days (from once a month early last year to about once ever three months), but when he gets irritated with me/ something I do, he still "lectures" me.

For example, last night we went to the hospital to visit a couple who just had a baby.  There is a set time frame for visits, and only 2 guests allowed each time.  The dad was in with the mum, so uBPDh first went in, then came back out for me to go in.  I knew that I was in there long but the couple was saying stuff to me and I couldn't really interrupt.  Anyway, basically during that time (15 mins) H was outside and he wasn't happy.

After we left, he started "gently lecturing" me (i.e. not raging, not sounding irritated, sound like he genuinely wants to help me but the content is about how bad I am) that I'm selfish.  I said a lot of "Hmm... . " "Yes I understand." "Maybe I didn't handle it so well... . " (basically validating his emotions and agreeing with him on certain points).  He then said I didn't look pleasant.  I just told him I'm concentrating on listening to him.  He then said I don't respond.  I said I'm listening. 

It went on sporadically throughout the night, then later on he was in a better mood. 

While he did not rage, I still feel that he dramatized a lot of things (that’s my point of view only), but obviously I didn’t say “It’s no big deal get over it”.  I wonder though, what you would suggest when he does that.  Just listen and try to validate, and when he does it again, keep validating?

It’s kind of circular (although I suppose he is “healing” by repeating it over and over again), but since he is not raging, I don’t think it’s entirely appropriate to walk away or shut down, as he will then say I don’t listen to him?

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[eeyore]

I think as you get better just as the raging became less frequent the lecturing may also. 

[dodocreek]

Yes. I get this one a lot, more often than raging which is usually only when too much has been drunk.

Mostly there is quite a lot of clear reasoning going on but then something is planted in there that just doesn't quite make sense. It can be on any topic but usually there will be some scenic diversions that allow some point about my general worthlessness to be made. The tone is normally very condescending and, guess what, one of the things that annoys my wife the most about me is my patronising attitude towards her 

No help to you I expect but this is often a time for me to switch off and think beautiful thoughts. The background droning can have a trance inducing effect if you can dissociate the meaning from the noise. Just don't get caught doing it 

[Chosen]

dodocreek,

Just like you, I think there is some logical reasoning behind what he's saying.  Usually it is something quite minor, but the "moral" of his lectures are always how those things reflect that I don't love him, don't care about him, care more about others than him, etc.

Yeah I kind of zone out too (otherwise will start reacting in anger or something), but I can't do that too much, or he accuses me of not responding and letting him talk to air.

[Blazing Star]

I get this sometimes too Chosen. It's a tricky one because it's not 'bad' or obviously wrong like a rage, however for me it is a  . I see it as my partner has learnt that rages don't work anymore, so the BPD is a little craftier, and a put-down is disguised by a lecture.

I get more comments than lectures, as the lectures I nipped in the bud pretty quickly once I realised that actually I wasn't okay with them any more than I was okay with a rage, sure he may be speaking calmly, but he was still being a bully. I would validate and then walk away, refuse to discuss. Like you I got my face on and he would say something similar to yours "Why have you got that look on?". I found this was a good time to end things, like you I might brush it off, while it was still pretty obvious that I wasn't enjoying the conversation. Or I might say "Hey this isn't feeling very good right now, let's talk about it another time", and then walk away.

Is it about finding a way to let him know it's okay for him to express his feelings, but it is not okay to do so in a way that goes on and on?

Love Blazing Star

[Chosen]

It's a  for me too Blazing Star.  While I suppose it isn't as "bad" as rages, him lecturing me, no matter how gentle-sounding, is a sign that he is emotionally stirred up on the inside. 

I just kind of go silent, nod a bit, say some "Hmm.", then of course he will say I have "the look" and why am I not responding and so on, and I will just say, "I'm concerntrating on listening to you.  I hear what you're saying."  He will try to say more stuff like "With that look, I can tell you're not accepting what I say", and I'd just tell him again I'm listening. 

It does go on for a bit, and I just repeat myself (reminiding myself not to add anything else), unless he starts attacking me and so on.  After while he usually either stops, or goes on for a shorter period before he stops.  I kind of see it as his way of expressing his feelings (although he's not just talking about feelings), and me just listening (or pretend to be anyway, when his words get a little bit... . harsh- in meaning, not like swearing and stuff) helps him wind down.

Do you think my reactions/ handling is acceptable, Blazing Star, or is it enabling?

[garthaz]

I like the way you handle this. I made the mistake of answering honestly when she asked why I was making the face. The reason was because I honestly did not like looking at new flooring on a friday night. I also added that I did not think our relatively new house even needed any new flooring.

I told her she could still get it if she wanted, but I just thought it was not the best use of money. Now I am the bad guy. She made me cancel the measurement session for the new flooring and cancel the new flooring. I apologized for my comments several times, and I kept telling her that I never said "No" to the flooring. She can get it if she really wants. Now she refuses and blames me.

I should of kept my mouth shut. Dang.

[Chosen]

Well, I answered in this way because most of my other answers in the past failed 

If I answer about the face, no matter what the answer is, I get sucked into "what kind of expressions are correct".  Now I'm letting him know that's the way I am.  Of course I "back it up" by actually listening to him, making "hmmm... . I see" sounds, and not interrupting nor disagreeing with him.  I have to say, he brought it up several times and he doesn't believe I can actually be listening, accepting his comments while looking like that, and in the end I tell him, "I'm listening to you, and I'm reflecting on what you are saying.  You don't have to belive me, but this is what I'm doing." 

If he wants to use "not looking right" to accuse me of anything, the most he can say is that I don't look pleasant.  At least he can't use that to create other facts if I refuse to be sucked into the discussion of my expression.

[eeyore]

I really see the situation as a control issue.  He controls you by making you sit there and listen to the BS.  Then he criticizes you because you aren't buying into it.  It's really a no win situation.  At some point in time you decide to agree to disagree and he either lets you have your own identity and own thinking or he'll wear you down until you drink the Cool aid.  And what would happen if you just decided you didn't want to drink the Kool aid and you won't sit there and even listen to it?  Just asking?

[Blazing Star]

Do you think my reactions/ handling is acceptable, Blazing Star, or is it enabling?

Hmmm, tough one, not sure I can answer this for you. It does sound like you are enabling/allowing unacceptable behaviour, and I am also aware how hard it is to be in your shoes, I have often been there - from the outside it may look like I am allowing unacceptable behaviour, but on the inside that is not what it feels like.

Some questions that have helped me realise if I am enabling or being radically accepting:

Why is it okay for him to talk to me like this? Would I talk to someone like this?

Is this how I want to be treated?

How does it feel inside when this happens?

I think for me the defining factor is how it feels. How do I feel when I am allowing (enabling) his bullying/projecting/BPD traits. If it feels like a downer, resentful, yucky inside, repression, sadness, anxiety, eggshells - then these are my  that something needs to shift. To shift within me. I need to stop engaging with these behaviours that make me feel this way.

If inside I feel calm, loving  , detached, happy, strong, then it is a behaviour that I can radically accept.

Sometimes it can be hard to be in touch with the feelings inside, we doubt or second guess them. And also normalise things! So it is good to check in with other people like you are doing.

It wasn't until I told a friend about the things my pwBPD did that my eyes were opened, and I realised how much behaviour I had been normalising, and how I had shut down the feelings, shut down my instincts over things. Rationally I knew she was right, and I trusted her, but I felt numb and it was a while before that feeling left and actual feelings came in, feelings that I started to trust and listen to.

I think it is about finding the balance between compassion and inner trust. We Stayers are a strong bunch to be where we are, and compassion is one of the greatest tools in our box.

However true compassion needs a strong foundation.

We can still have a lot of compassion (and love) for our pwBPD when we tell them we won't be spoken to in a certain way, or that yes we have heard them, validated them and that is the end of the conversation. We can be strong and loving and compassionate when we do this.

What are your thoughts Chosen. I am really interested in your feelings, will you talk a little more about what your feelings are, perhaps using my 3 questions as a guide - be as brave and as honest as you can.

Love Blazing Star

[Chosen]

Good questions, Blazing Star.

I suppose when he "lectures" me, I feel a bit annoyed (like "not again", but detached.  I don't feel afraid anymore, even though I used to.

I'm mostly able to let the words pass over me and not sink in, and really concentrate on trying to understand the feelings behind what he said.  I do accept responsibility where it's due; if I had been invalidating then I try to learn from that experience and do better next time.

Ok, I don't think it is a good way to express feelings, and I would just prefer him to tell me how he feels without dramatising things (a lot of these are minor issues but he makes them seem a major character flaw on my part), but I also realise it's because he's likely BPD, and that his mind doesn't work the same way as mine does.  It is probably unrealistic to think he will change, but I do want to find ways that we can communicate better, and foster a safe environment for him to share feelings when ready.

How does that sound to you?

[Blazing Star]

Ok, I don't think it is a good way to express feelings, and I would just prefer him to tell me how he feels without dramatising things (a lot of these are minor issues but he makes them seem a major character flaw on my part), but I also realise it's because he's likely BPD, and that his mind doesn't work the same way as mine does.  It is probably unrealistic to think he will change, but I do want to find ways that we can communicate better, and foster a safe environment for him to share feelings when ready.

The bolded bit stands out for me. Maybe I am being too sensitive, but to me this isn't cool. I would choose not to engage when my pwBPD makes things seem like a character flaw on my part. Usually I don't react, just turn away and stop engaging. How do you think he would respond if you said "You know what, this isn't making me feel good. I am open to hearing about your feelings, and when you express them like this, sometimes I can't handle it. Lets talk another time"?

And the italiced bit I think is great. How can you help in showing him how you want to be spoken to? And what other ways do you see this happening?

Love Blazing Star