Breaking Up Is Hard To Do

[Depression = 72% of members]

Neil Sedaka hit the nail on the head.  I suppose at one time in my current relationship, my ignorance to BPD and all the crazy making associated with it somehow kept me from realizing what a precarious place I was in.  In a nut shell, 6 years married to a BPDw/BiPolarII. We had an event that was life changing to me.  This singular event I suppose was the last straw so to speak.  She was violent physically and did and said things that in my mind I just can't put aside like she seems to think I should be able to. 

She has been in a different state due to the birth of her grandbaby. We share no children. Our life changing event happened four days before she left on that trip and I have used this event as an opportunity to seperate.  We have a home where she currently is, so she isn't out in the cold or anything.  She has friends and family in the area and has been real busy with them.  Since that day, I have told her a number of times that I want a divorce and that our relationship cannot go on as it was, things have changed as a result of that event in my mind and heart. I really feel that I am not the same person.  During this time she makes the cycle of pleading for forgivness, coming to grips with things and being ok, we will make a "friendly" break... . for several hours or a day later calling in a crying slobbering fit begging me to take her back.  I truely think that BPD's can make what was once a sane person, absolutly stark raving mad.  I have been in a somewhat vulnerable place just because I am grieving the loss of a realationship with a woman I still love dearly but she is stuck in a loop of acceptance and then begging to go back to things as "normal". 

She makes a proclamation that she has gotten back into church and God has healed her of her mental illness and when she said that all I could think is... . you are truely a sick woman.  She calls, texts for pages and pages... . its all the same, asking me to take her back and she will be the best wife I have ever had.  We had been NC for one precious day and I was feeling a little better then she called to make sure I wasn't going to an event that we usually would go to if she would have been here with me... . I told her I had planned to go and she went into a tailspin about how disrespectful it was of me to go without her... . three huge texts I didn't respond to.  She called and I made the mistake of answering, an hour later and having gone over the same, take me back because of x stories I hung up. She blew up my phone so at midnight last night I decided to just turn it off.  I slept well and turned my phone on at 7. At 705 my phone rings, I ignore it, it rings right back... . I turned it off again. I have tried to be "nice" and not be mean to her but she makes me resort to that behavior out of frustration because she will not give me any space to just get my head straight. 

How do I manage to stick with NC and not feel incredible guilt? That is without feeling like I am a horrible person because I won't even talk to her?  I feel like she is just sucking the life out of me by this constant draining of my emotions... . From what I read somewhere, people who get hung up in this phase of ending a relationship can become particularly toxic. (her)  How do I help get her over the hump so to speak?  NC seems to only infuriate her because I guess she feels she is losing control.

Thoughts?

Hanginon

[hanginon]

Neil Sedaka hit the nail on the head.  I suppose at one time in my current relationship, my ignorance to BPD and all the crazy making associated with it somehow kept me from realizing what a precarious place I was in.  In a nut shell, 6 years married to a BPDw/BiPolarII. We had an event that was life changing to me.  This singular event I suppose was the last straw so to speak.  She was violent physically and did and said things that in my mind I just can't put aside like she seems to think I should be able to. 

She has been in a different state due to the birth of her grandbaby. We share no children. Our life changing event happened four days before she left on that trip and I have used this event as an opportunity to seperate.  We have a home where she currently is, so she isn't out in the cold or anything.  She has friends and family in the area and has been real busy with them.  Since that day, I have told her a number of times that I want a divorce and that our relationship cannot go on as it was, things have changed as a result of that event in my mind and heart. I really feel that I am not the same person.  During this time she makes the cycle of pleading for forgivness, coming to grips with things and being ok, we will make a "friendly" break... . for several hours or a day later calling in a crying slobbering fit begging me to take her back.  I truely think that BPD's can make what was once a sane person, absolutly stark raving mad.  I have been in a somewhat vulnerable place just because I am grieving the loss of a realationship with a woman I still love dearly but she is stuck in a loop of acceptance and then begging to go back to things as "normal". 

She makes a proclamation that she has gotten back into church and God has healed her of her mental illness and when she said that all I could think is... . you are truely a sick woman.  She calls, texts for pages and pages... . its all the same, asking me to take her back and she will be the best wife I have ever had.  We had been NC for one precious day and I was feeling a little better then she called to make sure I wasn't going to an event that we usually would go to if she would have been here with me... . I told her I had planned to go and she went into a tailspin about how disrespectful it was of me to go without her... . three huge texts I didn't respond to.  She called and I made the mistake of answering, an hour later and having gone over the same, take me back because of x stories I hung up. She blew up my phone so at midnight last night I decided to just turn it off.  I slept well and turned my phone on at 7. At 705 my phone rings, I ignore it, it rings right back... . I turned it off again. I have tried to be "nice" and not be mean to her but she makes me resort to that behavior out of frustration because she will not give me any space to just get my head straight. 

How do I manage to stick with NC and not feel incredible guilt? That is without feeling like I am a horrible person because I won't even talk to her?  I feel like she is just sucking the life out of me by this constant draining of my emotions... . From what I read somewhere, people who get hung up in this phase of ending a relationship can become particularly toxic. (her)  How do I help get her over the hump so to speak?  NC seems to only infuriate her because I guess she feels she is losing control.

Thoughts?

Hanginon

[Rose Tiger]

If you do not respond, she will either find someone else to glom onto to or be forced to start facing her demons.

Taking her back is getting right back on the crazy roller coaster.  It makes us sick, the stress, it can kill us.  Adrenal fatique, anxiety, ptsd, you name it, these type of people suck the health out of other people.  It is a matter of life or death.

When you refuse to respond, you'll experience extinction bursts as they amp it up, trying to push those buttons.  Some even resort to suicide threats to which you report to 911 authorities.

They will use our feelings of guilt to try and control us.  This is one time where taking care of yourself takes priority over feeling guilty.  One thing to keep in mind, she does not care about your well being, she does not care how her actions affect you, she does not care about you. 

[hanginon]

Rose Tiger,

Thanks for the reinforcement.  Man, it is difficult. To me personally there is nothing more gut wrenching to than to listen to a crying hysterically woman begging for the chance to be the person she should be in a relationship. She does realize it is her and she does realize she has about driven me mad but by her actions... . it really doesn't matter because all she can think of is having her way... . yes it is all about her.  I'll say, you are going to have to stop calling and texting me because you are driving me crazy! To which she will respond, but I have to somehow let you know that God has changed me from the inside out and that she is not the same person that did all those terrible things to me... . to which I say, well pray that the Lord will show me that because your word isn't good with me.  I had turned my phone back on and on the 12th call I answered and it was the exact conversation we were having last night when I hung up on her around midnight. It is like it is on a recorded audio loop and replays. I respond but it is as if she never even hears me.

I am not happy with the person she has turned me into and I suppose it is totally up to me... . to get back to some order of normal.  It is so sad, I really love her, we have so much in common and connect on a number of levels but right now all that means nothing because I am struggling with my own emotional survival.

Hanginon

[Rose Tiger]

Nope, she does not care if the texts are driving you crazy.  That is the point, this is stressful to you, she does not care.  You must be the one to take the reins and say, ok, I am the only one here concerned with my well being.  Keep the phone off, don't read the texts, don't get into these endless loop conversations.  Ok, she thinks she can do better, well good, maybe she can try out her new skills with a new partner.  But we know she is not healed, she can't do better, she is in panic mode and will say anything, ANYTHING, to get you back under control.  God does not want you to be abused.  He came to set captives free.  Let her be refined in the fire, do not save her, do not get in God's way of doing a work her in her life.  You can't save her, hand it over to the great physician.  Find comfort and peace beyond all understanding in His presence.  Remember when Peter started focusing on the storm?  He sunk.  Change your focus.  

[hanginon]

I know what you say is true... . but it is difficult.  It is funny because I told her the same thing this morning. I told her if God changed her it was for the next man in her life because my heart and mind were changed by our last encounter where she became violent. Things were done and said that I just don't think I will ever get over.

She is ever the manipulator though, just a few minutes ago she sent a text to me, her two daughters and her ex-h saying that all she did was hurt the ones she loves the most and that she hurt herself and that it "ends here" which sounded like a cryptic suicide gesture... . I text with her ex and asked him if he thought that is what it was... . he said no but I just got a call back from one of the daughters and him and we are going to have to get someone out to check on her. 

She always ups the ante, that is usually how she gets her way.  She goes extreme and people cave in just to get past the moment.  She does not cope with not getting her way.  If she at least attempts and can at least get an ambulance to come... . she would think it would shame me into making the 700 mile trip to make sure she is ok.  She would be happy and feel she got her way and her daughters will/do hate me for doing "this" to their momma.  I'll be in a rubber room before this is over... .

This is tough.

Hanginon

[hanginon]

Well... . I just got the call from my stepdaughter, her boyfriend went to the house and she was in the bed with pill bottles strewn on the bed.  Ambulance is on the way.  The last time she did a very similar thing when she was in a rage and I was on my way home from work... . and refused to come home to her while she was raging.  That previous time I don't think she took many pills.  At the hospital they made her drink/eat charcoal mixture... . I think just to make her uncomfortable for wasting their time with a non-emergency.

Where to from here? She is the master of guilt. She is a "fog" god.

Ain't this fun stuff?  More to follow... .

barely Hanginon

[Rose Tiger]

Yep, I was feeling the suicide attempt was around the corner.  Now she will be with professionals that can help her.  She tries this again, call 911.  You can not help her, you don't have the skills, the training and even if you did, you are too emotionally involved.

Honey, if she were healed, she would have empathy for you.  She wouldn't dream of disturbing your sleep or writing/calling a kazillion times a day.  If she were healed, she would not do that.

You didn't cause her illness.  It's not your fault.  People that do commit to treatment do very well!  But it takes 3 to 5 years.  There is no quick fix.  God doesn't work that way.  Quick fixes don't grow character.  God is growing you, too.  You know, the purpose of trials.  You are being refined, too.  Trust him. 

[hanginon]

Well... . to be honest, I really didn't.  I say that only because I know how selfish she is but I suppose it isn't really about accomplishing suicide... . it is the feigned attempt for attention.  I also realize what you are saying about her divine intervention, I had practically the same conversation with her last night a number of times that she kept claiming to be cured but she could not comprehend that her behavior in the whole conversation was classic/typical "ill" behavior.  She just couldn't wrap her brain around that.

Well now I am a little bit in a hard place.  I am 700 miles away, and am torn between going to see about her (which would reward her actions) or seem to those external to our situatin like a calus ass.

I know her family there will do what they can.  You are right, I didn't cause her illness and it isn't my fault but she is still technically my responsibility... . as much as it pains me... . I will have to see about her in some capacity, either long distance through her family or in person.  I just don't want to reward her for her efforts.  And thanks   it has been rough here lately.

Hanginon

[Rose Tiger]

Go with calus ass.  Nothing speaks louder to this illness than total radio silence.  There is help out there for people with her illness, she will never reach out for it if everyone keeps saving her.  Since she is technically your responsibility, you do want the best for her and the best is her committing to a treatment program.  Long term.  3 to 5 years.

Reconciling is death to you, it will destroy you and keep her ill longer.  The only other option is theurapeutic separation.  You can google search it here and read about it.

Hang in there, stay as steady as you can.  This is very rough stuff.  Lots of folks here have walked this road.  You are not alone. 

[hanginon]

Callus Ass it is... . I received a call from her ex saying she was under observation at the ER to make sure she is stable and after they felt she was stable they were sending her to some facility for a 7-10 day assessment. 

The saga continues.

Hanginon

[Rose Tiger]

That is great on the eval.  You know that she will be back peddling and speaking about it was an accident, yada yada yada but it's setting up a pattern with the authorities.  What I told my ex, husband at the time, was that I felt he had really intense emotions, more than the regular person, that he felt things very strong.  I didn't say borderline or any of that but I started speaking to the symptoms... . as something that could be addressed.  I mentioned DBT therapy, told him it started out as a treatment for BPD but they are finding it useful for all sorts of folks (which it is).  

I also started building a network of support outside of ex, with friends, a bible study group, I did the 12 steps with celebrate recovery.  It really helps to be around people in regard to your own healing.  I don't have a lot of family and these folks became family to me.  It helped to get me out of my own head.  I also have a counselor I've been seeing for a few years.  These things were important to get me through all this.

[hanginon]

Well... . I had told her years ago that I thought she was borderline, her psyc only recently agreed.  As far as this event, she didn't claim an accident at all to me, not sure what she will tell them when they eval her.  She has been through a half hearted pill attempt before and they really didn't do or say anything in particular. Last night she called from the hospital repeatedly and I didn't answer.  I called later to check on her condition from the nurse station and they said she was fine.  I called again this morning and checked on her.  A while after that she called... . and I answered.  She was very meek and humble but said the reason she did it was to make her pain go away. The pain she has from all our relationship issues and that I told her that I wanted to end our marriage. (apply guilt here)   Basically everything was all my fault and I knew that she had some issues when we married so I should be bound to deal with/overlook her issues and make our relationship work.

From her, the responsibility and obligation to stay and make things work or live with the situation came with my marriage vows. My own wishes and mental health are not necessarily a concern. I made the decision to be in a relationship with her and should be bound to that.

I am seeing a therapist to help me deal with her and to help me come to terms with some of my issues as a result of being in an unhealthy relationship.

Hanginon

[Rose Tiger]

You can bet she won't be saying that to the evaluator.     My ex also took the route of, I'm not perfect and you can't expect someone to change just because you want them to change.

I thought (didn't say) wait a minute.  What he was prior to the marriage was a whole lot different than how he was after the wedding.  Talk about a bait and switch!  Don't tell me hey this is how I am and deal with it when he wasn't like that at all in the beginning.  I felt conned.  I felt the marriage was not valid because he was not mentally competent to enter a marriage contract.  I was willing to stay married, to support him but I could no longer be emotionally abused.  The tongue is life and death.  I chose life.  I chose to save myself because I couldn't save him and letting him destroy my health was pointless.  No fruit.

[laelle]

I chose to save myself because I couldn't save him and letting him destroy my health was pointless.  No fruit.

Well said Rose!

[Rose Tiger]

This a good freedom song... .

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEOPBdrCOc0

[hanginon]

TR,

I suppose with me it did come down to self preservation.  Maybe not necessarily afraid of bodily harm... . well maybe a little bit, but she has been working on my mind for 6 years and I just felt I was near a breaking point of just all the crazy making stuff that is what they would consider normal life.  I had always been the stable one in the relationship that kept or at least tried to keep her at least between the white lines so to speak.

I also see how pointless it had become trying to get her life in order or at least make her stable enough to keep a job. At the time, she had a clever response for every suggestion I came up with trying to help her.  Now when the plug is in my hand, I got every promise under the moon.  She has burned too many bridges in the past and I believe is close to a BPD nightmare of really being alone.   Mental illness, I guess I should say being involved with someone with mental illness in a relationship is a sad, sad thing.

Hanginon

[Rose Tiger]

It is.  It's heartwrenching, it's crazy making, it's coming to the very end of yourself.  It's someone that was badly damaged in childhood when they couldn't fight back.  But.  There is light at the end of this tunnel for them.  They have to reach the end of their rope to find the courage and strength to turn it around.  Bottom line is they are emotional babies, stuck at a very young age of development.  If you've ever had the opportunity to watch a toddler play group, well it all makes sense.  That's where they are stuck!  If you are interested, there is a book "Get Me Out of Here" that follows the healing of a person with BPD.  It really gets to the heart and mind of a person with BPD and what it takes to get to healthy.

You are not a bad person even though a pwBPD can make you feel this way.  They do lots of damage to their partners that takes some time to unravel.  You know how in the middle east, if a woman turns a man down, sometimes he flings acid on her face so that no man will ever want her.  That is sort of what happens to our hearts, we were open, loving and got acid flung onto our hearts.  By that I mean the healing is long term, trusting another takes some time, the articles on this site say we aren't really aware of the damage we suffer.  It takes time to recover.  While everyone is all poor them, we aren't so hunky dory ourselves. 

[ISwallowedaFly]

"How do I manage to stick with NC and not feel incredible guilt? That is without feeling like I am a horrible person because I won't even talk to her?  I feel like she is just sucking the life out of me by this constant draining of my emotions... . From what I read somewhere, people who get hung up in this phase of ending a relationship can become particularly toxic. (her)  How do I help get her over the hump so to speak?  NC seems to only infuriate her because I guess she feels she is losing control."

youre going to feel incredible guilt. her actions obviously arent helping, but youd be feeling it and probably among other things, other wise. two things that i hope will help you. i think your actions, as you describe them, are appropriate, and called for. youre being firm. i understand that that can make a compassionate person feel/wonder if they are behaving coldly. the situation is unique. relenting as reaction is almost certainly going to be worse for both of you and would obviously complicate a process you have committed to. and as rose tiger suggested, its worth, at least acknowledging the possibility that there could be things you dont know, or things to come. thats not to put ideas in your head; but i suspect it would lessen your guilt.

"How do I help get her over the hump so to speak?  NC seems to only infuriate her because I guess she feels she is losing control."

unfortunately, you do not. at least nothing i can think of. NC is not really something most people have to practice regularly. im sure its reasonably foreign to you, and im sure it infuriates her. it would send most people (likely yourself if the situation had reversed at some point) into a tizzy. heck, it might upset you if she suddenly stopped. however, this is your boundary. boundaries dont necessarily have to be "reasonable", they are there to protect you. this person has not respected your boundary either. i dont see great potential in you relenting on a boundary someone is already disrespecting. thats what i think you need to consider. communication is necessary in plenty of cases, but if youre ultimately asking if you should cater to making things 'easier' for her, (first you might examine if theres a pattern there) i dont think that strategy will help. if youre (also) asking for tips because youre overwhelmed, there is an article on this site for "surviving" a breakup with a pwBPD, and i dont readily see where youre deviating.

[hanginon]

RT and ISAF,

Thanks for the words and validation I know that I am doing the right thing but it aches in my heart so badly.  I guess when it gets right down to it, I feel remorse for a relationship that I should have ended when it began... . but just couldn't bring myself to do it. The highs were so high... . drunkenly so, it is like it became crack to my heart.  Now she is sitting in a mental care facility for a 7-10 day assessment and I am thinking of how truely abandoned she must really feel.  I am sure I have been painted black a hundred times over already.  I am considering taking the trip there just to reclaim some of my property because I am fearful of what she may do to it when they turn her loose.  I know I have read that on this site is that if they have access to something before you pull the plug, you may need to protect your best interests.  I think that was in the surviving article but will double check.

I suppose I am soft hearted and mild mannered.  I think that is what has made me so succeptable or vulnerable to her control and at times abuse.   

It is just a blue Monday... .

Hanginon

[Rose Tiger]

Yes, keep re-reading the articles.  Since you will have to maintain some sort of contact to sort things out, go with boring, nonemotional responses, mirroring.  When she says that she misses you and all that, you can go with a reply like this isn't easy for either of us, noncommittal.  Things like, I can understand why you feel that way, validating responses calm a person.  If she starts in being a broken record, cut the conversation off with, we've already discussed that, I'm hanging up now.  And do it.

If you can go get your stuff now, do it.

It sounds like you are worried about her being under observation.  She probably is scared and lonely.  Can you try to imagine it as a cocoon trying to break out to be a butterfly?  If you cut open a cocoon to make it easier, the butterfly will die, it's breaking out it and doing the hard work that prepares it's wings to be able to fly.

[hanginon]

RT,

I will, and I am.  It has just been a very difficult ordeal to me. I suppose I had been indoctrinated to her ways and have to deal with deprogramming and what i would assume are co-dependencey issues myself.

It is funny that you mention keeping communication low key. She keeps telling me I need to go see a Dr. and get an antidepressant.  To some extent, one may actually do me some good short term but it has been mostly trying to keep everything low key as I saw in several articles here.

I suppose I am concerned about her being where she is, she has done this once before and she told me about how terrifying it was to be in a place with people who were really and truely mad and have no control over your environment. I guess you are right about your analogy but it has just been difficult to see someone I love in that condition and in a place like that.

Hanginon

[Rose Tiger]

I hear you, I haven't been in a facility like that, my sister has been in treatments centers extensively.  She is borderline.  It was a relief in a way when she was because then we knew she couldn't harm herself.  It was hard on my mother because they wouldn't give her any info, privacy laws and all that.  My sister told me she liked being in treatment because people were taking care of her.  Sigh.  Such a sad disorder.

Remember that she is a master at pushing your guilt buttons, how it's 'all your fault' that she's in there.  Not true.  She is an adult and she has choices.  You must put the responsibility back on her for her choices.  You can only control you. 

Your emotions are probably all over the map.  If your doctor feels that meds can help you, by all means explore that possibility.  Take care of you, try to eat nutritious foods, take walks and sleep as best you can.

[hanginon]

RT,

Well, mine has done this twice and both times she didn't take enough to really hurt herself, it was in my opinion the only way she knew to deal with something she couldn't cope with.  It is like when I will not give in to her, it makes her more determined to have her way, if I stick with it... . she just cannot cope.  I have only done this three times, the first time she did a pill attempt. The second time she became physical and was arrested for assault and this the third time she did another pill attempt.  The only three times in our six years that I would not compromise. I am the one that always has to compromise.

I had mentioned on another post this morning that in a sense, I am floundering because my center of gravity of "who I am" has become so perverted and twisted by her that... . when left to my own devices... . I struggle to determine my own self.  Its sad. I am on my way to a better day but it has been tough on me emotionally. You are correct, I am all over the map... . but coming to terms with things daily.

Hanginon