Should I pay?

[Murbay]

My last e-mail from my exBPDw was in regard to divorce costs.

Just a quick rundown, we signed a separation agreement in April written up by her lawyer and contained inconsistencies. The reason being that an initial separation agreement was drawn up in 2011 when I went back to my own country for work. It was done so my ex could leave the country and come see me with the children without having to obtain legal permission from me to leave her own country with my daughter.

I moved back to her country in June 2012 and from what the separation agreement stated, if we lived together for more than 90 days, it became null and void, which we did. In April 2013, it was just an amendment to the the initial separation agreement (which living together since June 2012 should have made it void) but it was the basis for the divorce papers (which also contained discrepancies)

The divorce papers were all done by her lawyer, I was given the option of getting my own but could not afford it as she controlled the finances and was given 3 days to sort something out in my own country but could not leave to do that. The divorce papers themselves stated we had been living apart since 2011 although that was not true. As she needed a quick divorce (so she could mirror her colleague) I signed the documents anyway.

Her message to me the other week was in regard to paying half the costs for her paperwork. Not that I want to prolong the divorce proceedings or turn it into a court battle, I do want to go see a lawyer when I get back to my own country. I have no doubt that if I was to ask her for half the costs of me seeing a lawyer she would have something to say about that but the question I want to ask is whether or not I should pay for half of the divorce costs as there is no written agreement to do so.

This is something she decided overnight that she wanted to do and although I initially thought it was fair to share the costs with her, many people have said that the motives behind it were completely unfair and that I shouldn't pay anything towards it since I will have my own legal costs, because I wasn't given enough time to find my own lawyer and because she intentionally lied on the application to speed things up.

Not sure what anybody elses opinion is on this matter. Would it be fair to give her half the costs or should I just let her deal with it on her own?

[marbleloser]

If it were me,and it helped speed the process along,I'd pay for that reason alone if it isn't an outrageous amount.How much is it worth to you to be detached from her?

[Murbay]

That's just the thing though, I can't detach completely from her because we have children together and decided on how the support payments are to be made. So at least once a month I still have contact with her via email, though my last response of just "money available for collection" angered her because she expected more interaction and fired off a list of questions to try and engage.

[DreamGirl]

I think there is a universal feeling that "fair" becomes pretty subjective in these situations.

Example: My husband's ex-wife kept the phone number (therefore the billing information) that was used while they were still married. She added additional services (cable tv, internet, etc.) and then didn't pay the bill. It got sent to collections and ended up in my husband's mailbox - because it was all in his name. It was over $300.

"Fair" would be that she pay it because it really was her bill 100%. "Not fair" would be that my husband pay for a bill that was completely her responsibility. The meet-somewhere-in-the-middle, that avoided it being completely unfair, is that he paid the bill and she reimbursed him for half... . because that was all that she was willing to do.

So he was $150 down where he could have been $300 down... . with it not being enough money to even go to court over. He was frustrated with the $150 but would have been mad as mad can be over the $300.

My point is that there tends to be a certain kind of entitlement with a pwBPD, possibly stemming from a compensation for that low self-worth. I try to look at it with more logic then emotion. I value my money more then my pride when it comes to my husband's BPD ex-wife, so I try to view it with  the idealogy of - "How is this going to cost me the least amount of money?".

And I go with whatever that is.  

[mamachelle]

Murbay,

Can you step back and put off the payment itself (which she just threw on your plate) until you speak with an attorney and get the visitation and contact with the children straightened out?

I agree with others here on it being up to you when you are dealing with a request out of left field from a pwBPD that is not completely unreasonable financially ... . and since you signed-- it's a done deal anyway.

mamachelle

[Murbay]

Murbay,

Can you step back and put off the payment itself (which she just threw on your plate) until you speak with an attorney and get the visitation and contact with the children straightened out?

I agree with others here on it being up to you when you are dealing with a request out of left field from a pwBPD that is not completely unreasonable financially ... . and since you signed-- it's a done deal anyway.

mamachelle

Mamachelle, I'm in the process of trying to that now after your message on my other thread which was a great help, thank you 

The only issue for me financially right now is that I got back to my own country this week and looking at houses again, one of which I found today and have submitted the paperwork for. It just means that I have to go steady with the lawyer so as not to throw myself into debt and will be stepping back from this. My family aren't too keen on me paying anything towards her costs unless I'm going to send her the bill for half of mine. I was also quite angry to find that out from a friend, that she actually added the costs of filing the false allegations onto what she is asking for and she is annoyed because the authorities didn't take her seriously, something which she is now trying to punish me for by getting me to pay half of those costs too 

I posted again yesterday, because my T was completely right about what her motives are now. Yesterday I got a message to tell me she had paid my phonebill. Something which was not her responsibility and completely mine. Also, it wasn't due until next week and because of paying out on flights this month, I was waiting until I got paid next week then clear that off. She has taken that upon herself to do and then sent me the message demanding the money for doing that. But then wanting me to respond to her and tell her either way whether I was going to pay her. I remained NC though I was tempted.

I will send her the money for the phone at the end of the month with the money for the children because I would have been paying that next week anyway. I did also check with the phone company to make sure it had been paid and that she wasn't trying to get more money. The reason that annoyed me more than anything is because she also said she went into debt doing that and I see that as being unfair on the children.

I should probably be stressed right now but I have actually been smiling at the insane world she lives in. The reason she is pushing so hard with this is because she has already booked a $10k vacation in August and hasn't paid for it yet. She did the same thing last year when I was working away but then demanded I pay for half of it. As I have said previously, she is still living and has always lived at home with her parents so she has never actually had real responsibilities financially. To her, money magically grows on trees and the fairies pay all the bills. I still smile when I think of the line our T said "me and you live in the real world, I have no idea which planet she thinks she is living on but it's certainly not ours"

[mamachelle]

Murbay,

My NonH is very good at not reacting to his exBPDW demands that seem to come from alternate universes or demands for money. He sometimes buries his head in the sand-- but he will make her wait and wait and figures she will just keep asking if it is something she wants. She too lives with her mother who employs and supports her. She is almost 40.

He taught me some great patience as I often feel programmed to respond to my exBPDH and others who are insistent or rude- quickly to right a wrong-- though it rarely works that way  . There is no law that says you have to respond right away.


mamachelle

[scraps66]

A compromise could be to take the legal fees due out of the settlement?  So it effectively would not come out of your pocket.  Depends on what the amount is, if she gives you some ridiculous unsupportable figure - don't pay.  Or pay, and withhold some amount until you have a lawyer review things.  Aside from all the feelings you have of being mistreated, it sounds as if she had a settlement drawn up that she paid for.  If you did have an attorney involved you would pay too.  So it's not unrealistic to assume you should pay some.  If it's not an unmanageable amount, it may be worth biting the bullet and getting it over with.  With stalling being a big tactic with BPS, take full advantage of the opportunity to bring closure when you can.  On the other hand, BPs rarely do anything that will benefit, or be good for, YOU, and maybe she's up to something.  so make sure you're OK with the figures.     

[Murbay]

Thanks again mamachelle, I'm learning fast and my family have been quite supportive too. I go off the mentality that I have always supported my children financially and despite unreasonable requests at times, that money ultimately ends up for them. However, that's where I'm also learning that despite that being partly true and because of my nature, I usually end up becoming an easy target. Something I have worked on with my T because he was concerned that I take on more than I should and leave myself hanging. Obviously I would always put my children before myself but I have to take the stance that the money isn't going to the children in the first instance and it doesn't help my ex manage money responsibly. So by stepping back and being a little more harsh, I'm actually helping her where throwing money at her demands does nothing to help. The step back approach of your nonH is where I'm aiming to get to.

Also, our discussion about using the money as leverage for contact, it never used to sit right with me because I'm not a game player. However, I'm part of the game whether I like it or not so I do need to start playing. Not to win but to stop my ex from winning and the best result would be a stalemate because that's where compromise would come from.

scraps66, it's a little more complicated in some aspects because this is being done over 2 different countries where the law is quite different. Fortunately, there is no lengthy case nor is it going through court. Everything is pretty much a done deal on a separation agreement. She is getting more for my daughter than my ex here gets for my eldest which I find a little unfair because I like my children to be equal in those terms. However, what I agreed to was half the daycare costs because that was fair and then money towards my daughter on top of that. It was something that is affordable so I didn't have any complaints. Had it gone through the court, chances are I would have ended up paying a lot more because they don't recognise the fact I have other children to pay for since they don't live in the same country, also I would have had legal costs stacked too so it's more but less in the long term. The other thing she asked for was for me to pay half her debt on her credit card. Again, that was a little unfair because it's not like I spent her money as I had my own. However, there were times she bought things for the family on her credit card and as we were a family, I thought it fair that I did contribute on that. Those were the only things set out in the agreement aside from my phone being my responsibility which again, I agreed to. There are figures in the agreement as well as dates and that is what I have stuck to.

The costs for the divorce were never discussed as part of the agreement and that has come after. I did pay half the costs towards the separation agreement at the time we signed that. As for her being up to something, most definitely. She is going on vacation in August, the same place she goes every year at the same time so that's how I know the cost of the vacation. She doesn't have the money to afford it as she is $70k in debt herself and that comes from the 3 vacations she treats herself to each year, 5 star resorts and flying first class. She knows she doesn't have the money to pay for the trip in August and she is trying to get as much out of me as she can to pay for that. She is in a panic right now because it's just over a month away and she knows she can't afford it but to her, she has to have it at the cost of everybody else. I have no doubts at all that her parents will step in and cover it. The debt she is in right now, her parents bought out that debt so she owes them that money. They tried to get that money from me since being married to her meant that it was also my responsibility even though most of that came before I met her. I took on about $10k of that from the time I was with her and drew the line at the rest. That was my contribution to the separation agreement that I wouldn't take on her student loan or the reckless spending from before I met her so she is looking for present things to try and hit me with now since she can't use that.

[sfbayjed]

I don't think you should respond to her at all.   It is her bill right?  Don't feed her sense of entitlement.  I understand if it was a cable bill which was in your name. But unless I read it wrong, that is not the case here.  It sounds like this is a case of fair not being good enough for her. She paid the lawyer which gave her advantage, you didn't have one. The lawyer was not representing you. I say unless the bill is going to mess up your credit, ignore her completely or simply offer a one word response "no".  Your resources should be going toward protecting yourself and children and preparing your own case right now.  If it's a valid debt it will be accounted for in the final settlement or judgment.   Imo this is a good chance to practice setting firm boundaries. She is using this to pull you back in. There will be something else soon, if this doesn't work.