Here is something that is bothering me...

[Depression = 72% of members]

Is there a term for these instances? Where we are doing very, very well with all of this and then one little thought gets into our heads and it eats us up from the inside?  Like Dane Cook said... . brain ninjas.

My BPDex emailed me tonight, nothing major just a picture that referenced an inside joke between us with the title "for old times sake".  We have not had contact in 12 days since she told me she has gotten a dog with the new guy and they are planning on moving in together.  I was doing real well, I had quit looking at my phone expecting texts from her, still thought about her but it didn't upset me at all.  After getting the email I felt good in some ways, validated that she was still thinking of me. 

Then I remembered back when she was cheating on me about 5 months ago, I found out and we split, and she went and dated the guy she had cheated on me with.  And all the while she kept talking to me and saying she wished it was me, wanted it to be me, etc.

And with this new guy, she was telling me how wrong it felt sleeping next to him, she would get out of the bed and sleep on the couch instead, couldn't bring herself to have sex with him, etc.

It struck me, how can she sleep in a bed and date someone when her mind is on someone else?  How can they swing that? That just makes my stomach churn.  I don't know if I am weird for it or not, but it just seems so unnatural and wrong.

Anyone?

[Octoberfest]

Is there a term for these instances? Where we are doing very, very well with all of this and then one little thought gets into our heads and it eats us up from the inside?  Like Dane Cook said... . brain ninjas.

My BPDex emailed me tonight, nothing major just a picture that referenced an inside joke between us with the title "for old times sake".  We have not had contact in 12 days since she told me she has gotten a dog with the new guy and they are planning on moving in together.  I was doing real well, I had quit looking at my phone expecting texts from her, still thought about her but it didn't upset me at all.  After getting the email I felt good in some ways, validated that she was still thinking of me. 

Then I remembered back when she was cheating on me about 5 months ago, I found out and we split, and she went and dated the guy she had cheated on me with.  And all the while she kept talking to me and saying she wished it was me, wanted it to be me, etc.

And with this new guy, she was telling me how wrong it felt sleeping next to him, she would get out of the bed and sleep on the couch instead, couldn't bring herself to have sex with him, etc.

It struck me, how can she sleep in a bed and date someone when her mind is on someone else?  How can they swing that? That just makes my stomach churn.  I don't know if I am weird for it or not, but it just seems so unnatural and wrong.

Anyone?

[DeltaAlpha]

Octoberfest,

Just like you, I am baffled by this disorder also.

The only thing I can come up with is that its the disorder. It rules, it ruins, and it wins. I too have been attacked by those "brain ninjas" on numerous occasions.

Maybe its a good thing that I do not understand it. I cant imagine living life that way nor do I want to. It makes no sense (logically, emotionally,whatever)

Even through my painful r/s, I now believe that this side is greener. My exBPD will either take many years or perhaps will never be where I am going. She simply cannot have a normal r/s, but I can.

- and so can you

[danley]

I think about this too. The trust between my ex and I went out the window post breakup when he began to rage and paint me black. Then after he told me he might be interested in someone else he began to be see me as disgusting to acknowledge. It seemed like he wanted me to disappear and he would act like I was the plague. A few weeks later my ex was trying to talk to me and all I could think was WHY. It was confusing to have him reach out to me after he basically shunned me after revealing his new interest.  WHY is he talking to me all of a sudden? In my mind, if you're interested in someone else you wouldn't be talking to or reaching out to your ex?

I agree... . it is unnatural and wron.

[KellyO]

I'm still brain-ninjaed every day! In one message I told I want to go and bang my ex's head to the floor... . I just remembered something painful.

Thoughts and memories are only thoughts and memories. They have no place in presens. Thoughts you can't control, and memoris you can't control. But you get brain-ninjaed when you attach on your thoughts and memories. Best way to deal with brain-ninja is not let it drag you down (because that it is what it tries to do, it is your Egos defense-mechanism, it seriously believes it protects you ). Interrupt it! See what it wants to tell you (it is never good thing to suppress something, better see it now than later), acnowledge the memory. Then say you are sorry you made yourself to live that again, and forgive yourself. See that in this moment, right here, right now, it has no hold on you,no more than what you give it!

It is difficult at first, but it comes easier. If it would be easy, I wouldn't be still here now would I? But it definitely makes you feel BETTER, and that is the point. You are the one in control, not the brain-ninja.

I hope I made some sense.

I want to add that I'm not anymore afraid of brain-ninjas, because when they come I simply deal with them. They are just memories. I thank them, and say I'm sorry for them and I love me who brought that memory to me. I can be very angry somewhere back of my mind for half an hour, then it goes away and does not come back. I can recall the memory but the feeling-part of it has vanished.

[Cocoalover]

Oktoberfest, in my experience that's a way for recycling, but in a very indirect way. They are never sorry for mistakes they make, and frightened if they are rejected. they know how much they are loved and how much they are messed up! they are master manipulaters and know  what button to press and how to set you on fire!


Danley, you remind me of something    (he wanted me to disappear and he would act like I was the plague)

It was June 2009 when Swine flu was spreading throughout London . My ex gave me a week of silent treatment, I called him on phone and demanded explanation of what was going on  he was in his favourite bar with favourite friends. He said I was  still stressed so not gonna see you for one more week, and I said I need a talk face to face I don't have swine flu!

God knows what's going on in their mind when they are in devaluing mode!

[Validation78]

Hey October!

Wise words from KellyO!

It's perfectly normal to have feelings that come seemingly out of nowhere, or somewhere, like a text, or photo that reminds of our ex. Acknowledge how something makes you feel. Embrace it, and if it causes you discomfort or pain, replace the thoughts with something else. We can't control it when these thoughts come, yet we can choose to put them into proper perspective, and not allow them to take control of us. When we acknowledge instead of suppress, we are giving ourselves permission to deal with our feelings and decide for ourselves what we will do with them. Not allowing our thoughts and feelings to haunt us does take some discipline, and it something we can all master with some practice!

Best Wishes,

Val78

[grad]

Soo many times people believe everything their ex says... . LOL, it's the BPDex fallacy!  It's difficult for a non to get into the head of a disordered individual and it would even then it'd take someone with sociopathic traits and a high level of intelligence.

That said, all you can really take away from this is that she still thinks about you and probably feels some shame (reading into the comment of not sleeping next to him or engaging in sex) for her behavior which led to the demise of your relationship.  pwBPD cheat because they were either bored or needed to release pain so if you're contemplating reconciling then start looking into the cause of why she may have been led astray.

BPD exaggerate to the Nth degree, don't get misled into believing she's completely miserable and disgusted by him.

[mcc503764]

Soo many times people believe everything their ex says... . LOL, it's the BPDex fallacy!  It's difficult for a non to get into the head of a disordered individual and it would even then it'd take someone with sociopathic traits and a high level of intelligence.

That said, all you can really take away from this is that she still thinks about you and probably feels some shame (reading into the comment of not sleeping next to him or engaging in sex) for her behavior which led to the demise of your relationship.  pwBPD cheat because they were either bored or needed to release pain so if you're contemplating reconciling then start looking into the cause of why she may have been led astray.

BPD exaggerate to the Nth degree, don't get misled into believing she's completely miserable and disgusted by him.

absolutley... . they LIE and MANIPULATE!  With these people, you CANNOT believe a word they say, so remember that their actions speak louder than words! 

Logical question... . if she is "disgusted" by him, then why in the hell is she with him?

MCC

[grad]

Soo many times people believe everything their ex says... . LOL, it's the BPDex fallacy!  It's difficult for a non to get into the head of a disordered individual and it would even then it'd take someone with sociopathic traits and a high level of intelligence.

That said, all you can really take away from this is that she still thinks about you and probably feels some shame (reading into the comment of not sleeping next to him or engaging in sex) for her behavior which led to the demise of your relationship.  pwBPD cheat because they were either bored or needed to release pain so if you're contemplating reconciling then start looking into the cause of why she may have been led astray.

BPD exaggerate to the Nth degree, don't get misled into believing she's completely miserable and disgusted by him.

absolutley... . they LIE and MANIPULATE!  With these people, you CANNOT believe a word they say, so remember that their actions speak louder than words!  

Logical question... . if she is "disgusted" by him, then why in the hell is she with him?

MCC

she's disgusted because it ruined a r/s she's having trouble letting go of.  A lot of pwBPD cannot be alone, they need someone to mirror and for her she's now involved with someone she cannot respect because he slept with her while she was involved with someone else... . who is to say he won't do that to her?  He probably kept pursuing it because he had no better, healthier options, so he's probably needy in a way.  Perhaps she feels more security in someone so needy, after all, OP ended the r/s when he learned of her infidelity.

Another part of this dynamic is the shame.  pwBPD tend to be more comfortable with toxicity than love, and because of the shame she sees through him (perhaps recreating trauma from her past), it is in fact what is bonding her to him.

this isn't to say she wants to reconcile with OP because perhaps she rather thrive in shame than be healed in love, but she's definitely not ready to bring closure to her prior relationship

[slimmiller]

And with this new guy, she was telling me how wrong it felt sleeping next to him, she would get out of the bed and sleep on the couch instead, couldn't bring herself to have sex with him, etc.

It struck me, how can she sleep in a bed and date someone when her mind is on someone else?  How can they swing that? That just makes my stomach churn.  I don't know if I am weird for it or not, but it just seems so unnatural and wrong.

Anyone?

They act at times like they are forced to become a sex toilet and someone that works the back allys for money. (actually those working the back allys are at least not pretending to be good and messing with well intentioned good hearts). Mine at first would go se 'him' to 'end' it then come home and cuddle with me  

My conclusion, her vagina makes her decisions for her. Its getting attention to the vagina and seeing the other person in the throes of lust that makes her tick. Its the only thing that makes her feel alive. She excites him, not for his benefit but like the black widow spider, in the end she will kill him too, as she did me (I am speaking figuratively here).

I am not trying to disgut anyone by using that analogy... . she has become the disgusting creature that she would kiddingly accuse me of being.

We can all take pride in knowing our worth is a little above and beyond the sordid emptiness of having our sex organs dictate our happiness

[slimmiller]

I can so relate to the brain ninja analogy... . Anymore when I have those moments of intense emotions one way or the other, I have to force the logical mind to immediately remind me its just an emotion and it will only serve to drag me down in some capacity. That is a way for me to minimize the intesnity of it and its helping. Although I have a long way to go with it

[Octoberfest]

Soo many times people believe everything their ex says... . LOL, it's the BPDex fallacy!  It's difficult for a non to get into the head of a disordered individual and it would even then it'd take someone with sociopathic traits and a high level of intelligence.

That said, all you can really take away from this is that she still thinks about you and probably feels some shame (reading into the comment of not sleeping next to him or engaging in sex) for her behavior which led to the demise of your relationship.  pwBPD cheat because they were either bored or needed to release pain so if you're contemplating reconciling then start looking into the cause of why she may have been led astray.

BPD exaggerate to the Nth degree, don't get misled into believing she's completely miserable and disgusted by him.

absolutley... . they LIE and MANIPULATE!  With these people, you CANNOT believe a word they say, so remember that their actions speak louder than words!  



Logical question... . if she is "disgusted" by him, then why in the hell is she with him?

MCC

she's disgusted because it ruined a r/s she's having trouble letting go of.  A lot of pwBPD cannot be alone, they need someone to mirror and for her she's now involved with someone she cannot respect because he slept with her while she was involved with someone else... . who is to say he won't do that to her?  He probably kept pursuing it because he had no better, healthier options, so he's probably needy in a way.  Perhaps she feels more security in someone so needy, after all, OP ended the r/s when he learned of her infidelity.

Another part of this dynamic is the shame.  pwBPD tend to be more comfortable with toxicity than love, and because of the shame she sees through him (perhaps recreating trauma from her past), it is in fact what is bonding her to him.

this isn't to say she wants to reconcile with OP because perhaps she rather thrive in shame than be healed in love, but she's definitely not ready to bring closure to her prior relationship

I never said she was disgusted by him.  But that sure doesn't mean she loves him either... . it is a weird dynamic.  In the past when we have split because of cheating she will end up with the other guy and talk about how they are getting serious, etc (again after knowing each other for no time at all and the majority of it being cheating).  I would tell her I hope she is happy and she will come back with "i guess".  She isn't really super into the guy but in her own words, "I think i could learn to love him".  She dates people because they want her and fit this picture of what she thinks should be.  Marriage, kids, jobs.  As though having those things will complete her world and make her stop hurting.

In all these cases, the people DO NOT know that she was dating me.  She went to huge lengths to hide it from people.  I talked to this guy when I found out about him and told him what was up.  He chose to stay, believing it might be a fluke, while I chose to go, because I have seen from experience that it is just the way she is.

I do think you may be on to something with the shame part and the idea that she may be more comfortable in a toxic relationship... . I honestly do believe the idea of an honest, truthful relationship scared her.  According to her every guy she has been with has always cheated on her.  I think the idea that there could be one who actually wanted something serious, honest, and real scared her.  She told me as we parted ways that I was much better of a person than she could ever hope to be, and to not let me drag her down anymore... . I think the legitimacy scares her.

I don't want to reconcile with her.  I am not looking at going back.  I already tried way too hard to figure out what it was that makes her tick and fix it- I am not interested anymore.  Given that I am not sure what has me stuck... . I just don't think my mind works that way.  I told a friend how I was feeling about this last night and he explained that,

"I think it has a lot to do with who you are.  She has BPD and a ton of other issues, and going and sleeping with someone while wanting it to be someone else strikes you as a massive betrayal.  Most people would agree it is wrong, but your sense of loyalty is so strong that you can't even conceive of it.  People like you and I cant understand that sort of thing, but to her, with a different set of morals and standards, maybe it makes sense.  She is just trying to do the best she can, even if it makes no sense to you".

I think he is right... . I am so taken aback by it because I would never do it. 

[Wanna Move On]

Mr. October,

BPDs are incredibly fractured and fragmented and compartmentalized. Their intrapsychic selves are completely un/dis-integrated, and their emotional wounds are either eternally hemorrhaging or are bottomless black holes in need of constant narcissistic supply. They are fully capable of dissociating/detaching while involved with someone or something that manifests itself in a deeply intimate manner. Their detachment is an unconscious coping mechanism they learned when they were VERY young; perhaps to help them survive the incest that, statistically speaking, so many very young preBPD females DID endure!

The sexual/relational arena is a very twisted psychological/emotional arena for many BPDf's. It very often triggers incomprehensible pain and shame and trauma.

For many now-adult BPDf's, core attachment disorders are interwoven with a broken/fractured/dissociated sense of self, further compounded by a toxic core-level sense of shame. (This adult sense of toxic shame very often exists vis-a-vis daddy incest; ESPECIALLY if at the deepest levels their total powerlessness as a young girl "forced" them -- as a psychological survival mechanism -- to derive some level of pleasure from the secret sexual violation that they could NEVER reveal. That "shame" would be FURTHER enhanced if emotional survival forced them to "voluntarily submit" and/or even attempt to derive some sense of "control" by acting as an active seductress to what they were completely powerless to control anyway. This process of toxic shame would be FURTHER enhanced if the young preBPDf was soo emotionally vulnerable to daddy that she formed a twisted relational bond of "validation" through daddy, and then CONTINUED the incestuous relationship, secretly and shamefully, well into adulthood! My BPDx fell into the above described category.)

Mr. October, you have provided me (and others) with brilliant insights. The amazing thing about "insight" is that it is easy for us to see in a dispassionate, detached way WHEN IT RELATES TO OTHERS! But when it comes to ourselves and our personal issues and involvements, we are self-paralyzed. The paradox is amazing, isn't it?

 

[fromheeltoheal]

I see it two ways.

One is the therapeutic BPD model, a pwBPD never successfully detached from their mother, never endured the abandonment terror, so they continue to fear abandonment most, and absolutely MUST attach to someone to feel whole, and the more people there are to maintain some level of attachment with, the more whole they feel, and the less in fear of abandonment.

Then there's my experience with my BPD ex, more visceral in that I was enmeshed with her.  At the core she sees everything in black and white, including her perception of herself, and she rails against feelings of worthlessness by promoting herself, to herself and everyone else, as god's gift to women.  She's quite the accomplished seductress, complete with large fake boobs, and uses that to keep men fawning all over her, the more the better, the more whole she feels, the more worthy she feels, the more externally validated she feels.

Most younger women get a lot of mileage out of that MO, but my ex is in her mid forties, and the bloom is off the rose so to speak, although she could pass for 35, and it's getting a little pathetic, especially when I realize that she is basing all of her worth and getting all of her validation through sexual attractiveness.  I fell for it in a big way initially too, she's very good at it and it felt great, and she is still very sexy, but I credit myself with realizing early that is no basis for a long term relationship, and when I started trying to move beyond the honeymoon stage into some sustainable, healthy, open, communicative love, you know, the real deal, she saw her tools were no longer working on me, coupled with feelings of worthlessness, inability to show up in that kind of relationship, and the ever-present fear of abandonment, and off she went to greener pastures.  She's still capable of landing 25 year olds, so off she went to men half my age for more of the same, control, manipulation, devaluation, and they will tolerate it as long as they can, bail, and then it's on to the next.

Sad, I had hoped for so much more.  What I ended up doing was filling in the blanks in her lack of wholeness with my hopes and dreams as I practiced extreme denial and ignored/tolerated the rages.  Sigh.  There's nothing for me there.  Moving forward... .

[flynavy]

octoberfest... . remember that PWBPD/NPD are masters at mirroring!  They will tell you exactly what they think you want/need to hear.  Here is something I learned about myself after the toxic BPD/NPD dance with my exBPD/NPD fiance... . that as an adult child of an alcoholic, being told I would never amount to anything and witness to my mothers emotional abuse through most of my childhood into my teens, I have feared intimacy.  I also used sex as a validation that I was worthy and loved.  It wasn't until I met my wife and she taught me the meaning of true intimacy... . what it was like not have sex but to "make love" that I was able to release the chains of my childhood experiences.  Unfortunately, after my wife passed away from Ovarian Cancer so many of those feelings of inadequacy resurrected... . My exBPD/NPD was able to recognize those feelings of inadequacy... . learned early with me that sex seemed to fill my needs and hers as well so this part of our dance was alwayus exceptional and escalated to almost pornographic for me... . she called it naughty! 

My point is... . she will exploit everything she learned about you during your dance to keep you attached.  It DOES NOT make any SENSE but even when my ex had her boyfriend at my house at 12:30 AM ringing my doorbell with her in my bed she still tried to keep us both... . even when confronted with her hand in two... . maybe three cookie jars.  Try not to rationalize/make sense of any of their behavior... . it is all done and said for her own self preservation and absolutely nothing to do with you!

[seeking balance]

Is there a term for these instances? Where we are doing very, very well with all of this and then one little thought gets into our heads and it eats us up from the inside?  Like Dane Cook said... . brain ninjas.

My BPDex emailed me tonight, nothing major just a picture that referenced an inside joke between us with the title "for old times sake".  We have not had contact in 12 days since she told me she has gotten a dog with the new guy and they are planning on moving in together.  I was doing real well, I had quit looking at my phone expecting texts from her, still thought about her but it didn't upset me at all.  After getting the email I felt good in some ways, validated that she was still thinking of me. 

Then I remembered back when she was cheating on me about 5 months ago, I found out and we split, and she went and dated the guy she had cheated on me with.  And all the while she kept talking to me and saying she wished it was me, wanted it to be me, etc.

And with this new guy, she was telling me how wrong it felt sleeping next to him, she would get out of the bed and sleep on the couch instead, couldn't bring herself to have sex with him, etc.

It struck me, how can she sleep in a bed and date someone when her mind is on someone else?  How can they swing that? That just makes my stomach churn.  I don't know if I am weird for it or not, but it just seems so unnatural and wrong.

Anyone?

Seriously Octoberfest - let's take a really honest look at this.

It is just words designed for a reaction - why do you believe them to be true?  She told you what you wanted to hear - isn't this kind of a pattern we all had?  I mean, we all had words told to us that actions didn't align with, right?

Why are you choosing to believe these particular words to be true?

[Octoberfest]

Is there a term for these instances? Where we are doing very, very well with all of this and then one little thought gets into our heads and it eats us up from the inside?  Like Dane Cook said... . brain ninjas.

My BPDex emailed me tonight, nothing major just a picture that referenced an inside joke between us with the title "for old times sake".  We have not had contact in 12 days since she told me she has gotten a dog with the new guy and they are planning on moving in together.  I was doing real well, I had quit looking at my phone expecting texts from her, still thought about her but it didn't upset me at all.  After getting the email I felt good in some ways, validated that she was still thinking of me. 

Then I remembered back when she was cheating on me about 5 months ago, I found out and we split, and she went and dated the guy she had cheated on me with.  And all the while she kept talking to me and saying she wished it was me, wanted it to be me, etc.

And with this new guy, she was telling me how wrong it felt sleeping next to him, she would get out of the bed and sleep on the couch instead, couldn't bring herself to have sex with him, etc.

It struck me, how can she sleep in a bed and date someone when her mind is on someone else?  How can they swing that? That just makes my stomach churn.  I don't know if I am weird for it or not, but it just seems so unnatural and wrong.

Anyone?

Seriously Octoberfest - let's take a really honest look at this.

It is just words designed for a reaction - why do you believe them to be true?  She told you what you wanted to hear - isn't this kind of a pattern we all had?  I mean, we all had words told to us that actions didn't align with, right?

Why are you choosing to believe these particular words to be true?

I am not believing these words to the effect that I am thinking "oh it's really me she wants to be with, she still loves me and wants to do this!".  I have no intentions of getting back together with her or continuing to have her in my life.  I am asking a more general question of how can they have emotional relationships with multiple people at once?  It's asking how they can be dating two people at once, sleeping in bed with one while thinking about and pining for the other.  I am saying I don't understand that... . I am not being pulled in by lies.

Mr. October,

BPDs are incredibly fractured and fragmented and compartmentalized. Their intrapsychic selves are completely un/dis-integrated, and their emotional wounds are either eternally hemorrhaging or are bottomless black holes in need of constant narcissistic supply. They are fully capable of dissociating/detaching while involved with someone or something that manifests itself in a deeply intimate manner. Their detachment is an unconscious coping mechanism they learned when they were VERY young; perhaps to help them survive the incest that, statistically speaking, so many very young preBPD females DID endure!

The sexual/relational arena is a very twisted psychological/emotional arena for many BPDf's. It very often triggers incomprehensible pain and shame and trauma.

For many now-adult BPDf's, core attachment disorders are interwoven with a broken/fractured/dissociated sense of self, further compounded by a toxic core-level sense of shame. (This adult sense of toxic shame very often exists vis-a-vis daddy incest; ESPECIALLY if at the deepest levels their total powerlessness as a young girl "forced" them -- as a psychological survival mechanism -- to derive some level of pleasure from the secret sexual violation that they could NEVER reveal. That "shame" would be FURTHER enhanced if emotional survival forced them to "voluntarily submit" and/or even attempt to derive some sense of "control" by acting as an active seductress to what they were completely powerless to control anyway. This process of toxic shame would be FURTHER enhanced if the young preBPDf was soo emotionally vulnerable to daddy that she formed a twisted relational bond of "validation" through daddy, and then CONTINUED the incestuous relationship, secretly and shamefully, well into adulthood! My BPDx fell into the above described category.)

Mr. October, you have provided me (and others) with brilliant insights. The amazing thing about "insight" is that it is easy for us to see in a dispassionate, detached way WHEN IT RELATES TO OTHERS! But when it comes to ourselves and our personal issues and involvements, we are self-paralyzed. The paradox is amazing, isn't it?

 

I will agree with you that the sexual/relationship issue IS very twisted with my BPDex.  Her father left her and her mother at a young age thought, so I do not know about the sexual abuse from him, but neither here nor there.  She was sexually abused in previous relationships, and the emotional scars showed in our relationship.  


No need for the Mr.  I am far too young and have done far too little to be called a Mr.  

Appreciate all the thoughts guys.

[schwing]

Here's my 2 bits for what it's worth (maybe $0.02?)

My BPDex emailed me tonight, nothing major just a picture that referenced an inside joke between us with the title "for old times sake".  We have not had contact in 12 days since she told me she has gotten a dog with the new guy and they are planning on moving in together.  I was doing real well, I had quit looking at my phone expecting texts from her, still thought about her but it didn't upset me at all.  After getting the email I felt good in some ways, validated that she was still thinking of me.  

Think about the context in which you received this e-mail:  You hadn't had contact in 12 days.  On your end, you are choosing to actively disengage, or at least to keep minimal contact.  Because if you're still reading her e-mails, that isn't "no contact."  But on her end what?  

I think it's safe to say that she is going through her periods of idealizing and devaluing whomever it is she is currently attached to.  She did it with you.  Maybe you weren't so aware of her periods of devaluing you.  Maybe she kept them hidden for the most part until she could hide it no more.  But she is doing what most pwBPD do while they are devaluing whomever to which they are currently detach: they find an outlet.

She is dealing with her disordered fear that her current beau is going to abandon her.  So she looks for an exit door.  You are that exit door.  You are probably not the only exit door.  But there it is.

Then I remembered back when she was cheating on me about 5 months ago, I found out and we split, and she went and dated the guy she had cheated on me with.  And all the while she kept talking to me and saying she wished it was me, wanted it to be me, etc.

She wants it to be you, only when she is talking to you.  When she's with the other guy, she wants it to be him.  Except when she is feeling her disordered fear that he will abandon her... . just like she did with you, which is what drove her to cheat on you in the first place.

And with this new guy, she was telling me how wrong it felt sleeping next to him, she would get out of the bed and sleep on the couch instead, couldn't bring herself to have sex with him, etc.

According to her.  Maybe these are flat out lies.  Maybe they are big time distortions.  Trust them as far as you can throw her.

It struck me, how can she sleep in a bed and date someone when her mind is on someone else?  How can they swing that? That just makes my stomach churn.  I don't know if I am weird for it or not, but it just seems so unnatural and wrong.

When she sleeps with the other guy, she's sleeping like a babe.  Unless she's dealing with insomnia because she's petrified he won't be there when she wakes up.

She has no problem sleeping with him while she is idealizing him.  Which I think it is safe to say, was true of the last 11 days before you heard from her.

I am asking a more general question of how can they have emotional relationships with multiple people at once?  It's asking how they can be dating two people at once, sleeping in bed with one while thinking about and pining for the other.  I am saying I don't understand that... . I am not being pulled in by lies.

She is able to do because she lacks object constancy.  

Definition of "object constancy":  source

Object constancy. Maintaining a lasting relationship with a specific object, or rejecting any substitute for such an object. Example of the latter: rejecting mothering from anyone except one's own mother. Mahler: object constancy is "the capacity to recognize and tolerate loving and hostile feelings toward the same object; the capacity to keep feelings centered on a specific object; and the capacity to value an object for attributes other than its function of satisfying needs."

She *lacks* object constancy.  So she *does not* reject any substitute for an object.  Example: anyone's mother can be her mother. Or more to the point, *anyone* can be her soulmate.   Although she can only have one at a time.  But because she cannot tolerate "loving and hostile feelings towards the same object", when she hates (devalues) her current object (source of love), she needs to find another object to love... . even if only for a short time, in order to deal with her current devaluing feelings.

After her disordered feelings passes, she can then resume idealizing her current relationship.  In time, these disordered feelings may overwhelm her, at which time she will need to find a new long-term object.

I will agree with you that the sexual/relationship issue IS very twisted with my BPDex.  Her father left her and her mother at a young age thought, so I do not know about the sexual abuse from him, but neither here nor there.  She was sexually abused in previous relationships, and the emotional scars showed in our relationship.  

Her disorder was triggered by a trauma which disrupted her ability to form stable relationships *in general*.  She can start them... . but at some point in time, her disordered feelings catch up and basically cause her to start all over with someone new.

Hope some of this helps.

Best wishes, Schwing

[Octoberfest]

Thanks schwing.

So really in this thread I was asking "why do BPD's do what they do and think how they think". 

No wonder I don't understand it- it's because she is mentally unwell.  It isn't supposed to make sense.

[schwing]

So really in this thread I was asking "why do BPD's do what they do and think how they think". 

No wonder I don't understand it- it's because she is mentally unwell.  It isn't supposed to make sense.

I understand the question.  I've been asking the same question for a long time.

What it all comes down to is: do you accept that your BPD loved one, has BPD?  And for you to truly accept it, means you have to bury the person you fell in love with.  That person didn't exist in the way you thought she did.

[Wanna Move On]

What it all comes down to is: do you accept that your BPD loved one, has BPD?  And for you to truly accept it, means you have to bury the person you fell in love with.  That person didn't exist in the way you thought she did.[/quote]
I remember an interesting quote I once read on these boards: They are fake in the beginning and real at the end.

I also need to bury the person I (mistakenly) fell in love with. She didn't exist in the way I thought she did.

[flynavy]

Love it when people tell it like it is and to the point... . I totally agree with schwing!

From Schwing... . What it all comes down to is: do you accept that your BPD loved one, has BPD?  And for you to truly accept it, means you have to bury the person you fell in love with.  That person didn't exist in the way you thought she did.

I would go one step further and define bury not in the context of a loved one but as in stuff we need to discard in the landfill... . the lies, deceit, infidelity, anger, hurt... . Love never dies... . it was our gift... . they just can't accept it

[pari]

It struck me, how can she sleep in a bed and date someone when her mind is on someone else?  How can they swing that? That just makes my stomach churn.  I don't know if I am weird for it or not, but it just seems so unnatural and wrong.

Anyone?

Exactly my point. I don't understand when my ex tells me that he still thinks about me all the time, while he is sleeping with a girl half his age. I asked him on his face, how is this fair to this girl? And he says, life is not fair. I wasn't fair to him. He says, nothing has changed and we can still work on our r/s if we want. How disgusting! He doesn't want to be alone and was super tired of arguments with me. This new girl is super chill and easy. At this point, all he wants is to be happy and live, not argue.

Because they can't think logically and to beat the loneliness, they make desperate attempts to find someone to fill up the space. Plus they need someone to believe in them because they don 't.

[slimmiller]

I remember an interesting quote I once read on these boards: They are fake in the beginning and real at the end.

The greatest step in my healing and understanding was to realize this fact. I was with her for 13 years, married to her for her 7. She was married to me for maybe 3 years, 5 at the most. 

I miss HER. The HER that I met. NOT the HER that she truly is. All the lying, cheating, screaming, raging, and emotionally terrorrizing our children, the shopping sprees, the inability to hold a job, the lack of real friends, the insults, the devaluing (and the list goes on) is the real her. In the beginning she was NOT real. Now she is being the real her.

Yes it hurts but thats a fact. The sooner we realize that even though its a cold hard thing we dont want to, the sooner we can move on and heal.

[fromheeltoheal]

This new girl is super chill and easy. At this point, all he wants is to be happy and live, not argue.

One of the traits, maybe the most important trait, of a healthy relationship is the ability to communicate when things are not going well and work towards a resolution, to problem solve.  A healthy relationship is it's own entity, a place where both partners are better off for being in it, and therefore it's important.  And because it's important and takes a little effort to maintain, the ability to work through issues is invaluable.

Did any of us ever get to that place with our BPD's?  In my relationship everything was always about her and her sht, nothing ever got truly resolved, conversations with her when she got triggered were psycho roundy-rounds full of blame and devoid of logic, and there was never any true intimacy.  Is there an opportunity for an upgrade?  Absolutely, and we deserve better.

[mcc503764]

Did any of us ever get to that place with our BPD's?  

absolutely NOT... . she would never allow it to!  I got sick of being in a one-sided "r/s," (if you can call it that?)  There was never any RELATING!

It was ALWAYS about HER... . the unreciprocated relationship HURTS, makes you wonder "what is wrong with me?"

Today actually marks 1 month of NC, not that it is unheard of in my dynamic as we have recycled 5x in the past two years, but it's weird I like being without her?  I like living my own life, and doing the things that I enjoy! 

It's a process, and one that I never thought I would be at this point in.  Not really sad, just nostalgeic (sp) at times.  I've heard bits and pieces about her and her drama.  Ive heard that some of her friends are sick of her drama. it doesn't surprise me, nothing new... .

Unfortunate, lost, clueless... . I really am to the point to where I don't know what I feel for her?  Pity perhaps?

MCC

[whatathing]

One of the traits, maybe the most important trait, of a healthy relationship is the ability to communicate when things are not going well and work towards a resolution, to problem solve.  A healthy relationship is it's own entity, a place where both partners are better off for being in it, and therefore it's important.  And because it's important and takes a little effort to maintain, the ability to work through issues is invaluable.

Did any of us ever get to that place with our BPD's?  In my relationship everything was always about her and her sht, nothing ever got truly resolved, conversations with her when she got triggered were psycho roundy-rounds full of blame and devoid of logic, and there was never any true intimacy.  Is there an opportunity for an upgrade?  Absolutely, and we deserve better.[/quote]
I like that very much.

[awomanlearning]

Iv got a man doing the same thing to me he left 5 weeks ago asked for a divorce left the family home and his two children BUT and heres the huge but his tells me his still in love with me when his now with his long lost love from when he was 17 his 35 now. Iv been painted all colours of the rainbow and more. Yet he lost it when i said i cant be his friend, literally ran to another room and wept when i began dissussing divorce, texts me i love you daily, holds my hand when the kids arent looking and his here, wears his wedding ban here but takes it off when his with his girlfriend, constantly talks about old times together and finally still tries to get me to go to bed with him.

Through all this iv decieded listen but dont react, smile and nod, agree to what ever he says but keep dropping his happiness with his new friend in the conversation, like you looking so much better, he would reply but im not inside, i reply it doesnt show you look fantastic. YES a huge game, yes a touch of meaness but hey what else do i have to do truthfully im bored with the games he plays im enjoying just watching him squirm be because his scared of detaching i have no idea but somewhere in there must be some form of sanity that creeps in and that is what im aiming at not the condition the sane part i believe does exist.

I take nothing he says as truth more like with a huge lump of sugar im distancing myself in a weird and uncoventional way yes suppose to leave them alone etc i dont, i push for the other woman its my door out i never disrepect her in fact i praise her in little ways my way of letting him go his not mine, hers or any ones not even himself. The love i have for him is still there i have my moments of pure sadness that he isnt here but i have to accept i cant make him do what is "normal" neither can he so just going with the flow besides dont want him killing himself and me having to pick up the pieces of his self distructive behavior for years to come with my two children.

Basically they lie lie lie worst part is somewhere in there they know they the only ones that are being lied to because they know we wise up after a while and that i believe this scares them the most that we see the truth and make the decision to leave and they are alone till the next woman or man pops up on thier radar.

[asher2]

Lots of truth being spoken and good advice/analysis given in this thread. Schwing... . your analysis is right on and well said. Thanks for sharing your honesty, knowledge and advice.

Asher

[LosingIt2]

Actually, I read that most therapists try to teach their BPD patients to focus less on their negative thinking, because that represents their disordered thoughts/reality. As in, their lack of empathy and cruel reactions are the disorder and they need to retrain their approach to stress triggers.

My therapist has also reinforced the notion that her hurtful behavior is the result of BPD pathology.

So the opposite of what everyone is presuming here.