Believing that others are sick

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I read something on here that I need clarification and help in understanding.

Someone wrote yesterday that people with BPD think that others are mentally ill and not them.

When they relate to us do they think/believe that we're the sick ones or is that simply a projection of their shame and not wanting to own their disorder?

I ask this because my ex painted me black and told everybody that I was the "crazy" one in the relationship and I want to know if he truly believed that.

Spell

[bpdspell]

I read something on here that I need clarification and help in understanding.

Someone wrote yesterday that people with BPD think that others are mentally ill and not them.

When they relate to us do they think/believe that we're the sick ones or is that simply a projection of their shame and not wanting to own their disorder?

I ask this because my ex painted me black and told everybody that I was the "crazy" one in the relationship and I want to know if he truly believed that.

Spell

[tailspin]

Spell,

I think yes, this is due in part to projection, and in part due to objectification.

Most of our expwBPD experienced severe emotional trauma during childhood.  This led to their inability to successfully master object constancy and this, in turn, led to future objectification of us.  Their emotional self was fractured.

I think your ex truly believed you were crazy but this was due to how you represented, to him, the object of his original pain.  I also think he projected his crazy onto you because denial is essential to their emotional survival.

I also think this is why they cannot take responsibility for their actions, because to do so, would be to acknowledge their parent or primary caregiver was "not good" to the point of causing them extreme mental and emotional anguish. 

The shame associated with this realization is just too much for them to bear.  The blame is cast elsewhere and this is where we come in.

tailspin

[charred]

They project big time, but it may be simpler than we think of it.

Someone that is a pwBPD... . has arrested development at an early stage... . before empathy, about like a 2-3yr old.

At that age they don't take responsibility... . best story I heard about that;

Guy I used to work for had two sons, when the youngest was still in diapers he came in walking funny... . so the guy asked him "did you poopy your pants"... . and he looked around, shrugged, and said "No, my brother did."

I think its about like that.

[Blade99d]

My BPD ex would project all the time by saying things like I have issues, i am psycho, i rage, etc.  when she dropped her first I hate you, I was mortified.  As it turns out, I do have issues that I am working with a T on - mainly on identifying why i always find myself in a fixer type relationship.  I have truly tried to take a very hard look at myself, as a relationship is 50/50.  Unfortunately my BPD ex saw everything as my fault, and never apologized for anything.

Blade99d

[crystalclear]

Spell,

I think yes, this is due in part to projection, and in part due to objectification.

Most of our expwBPD experienced severe emotional trauma during childhood.  This led to their inability to successfully master object constancy and this, in turn, led to future objectification of us.  Their emotional self was fractured.

I think your ex truly believed you were crazy but this was due to how you represented, to him, the object of his original pain.  I also think he projected his crazy onto you because denial is essential to their emotional survival.

I also think this is why they cannot take responsibility for their actions, because to do so, would be to acknowledge their parent or primary caregiver was "not good" to the point of causing them extreme mental and emotional anguish. 

The shame associated with this realization is just too much for them to bear.  The blame is cast elsewhere and this is where we come in.

tailspin

You nailed it for me tailspin!

His mother was domineering and father passive or a dormant. He displayed high passive aggressive behavior. He left his house for further studies but I think he wanted to escape something cant really say what.  He loves his parents but he doesn't tell them much, he avoided serious talk, he felt he was a black sheep of his family of highly achieved professionals.

[delusionalxox]

This is very interesting, BPDspell.

My BPD ex painted me entirely black and also abused me verbally for being 'crazy' quite frequently. I suffer from depression, which got a lot worse as the abusive relationship went on. He found this very useful in order to trap me, and make out that because i was 'diagnosed mentally ill' I was untrustworthy, always wrong, and a terrible burden for him in his upright sanity to bear, etc   He was very narc as well as BPD, and my being 'officially' 'crazy' was very helpful for him to undermine me with and maintain his feeling of superiority.

My god reading that... . I don't know how I took that prejudiced crap for 1 second... .

He did indeed drive me more 'crazy' by the end with a fest of splitting black and white, then dumping me pregnant. I think that gave him all he needed to paint me as a 'dangerous madwoman', etc and tell all his friends and family how much he has suffered and been abused. I was nuts therefore he is perfect and has no problems other than me.

He was indeed astonishingly 'projective' generally. Any problem I perceived in the relationship and told him about would be thrown back at me. The words I used in rows eg 'exploitation' and 'manipulation' (both of which believe me were coming from him... . I had the money and secure life which he both wanted to be part of (funded by), and wanted me to change, so that I could follow him into whatever fantasy future he had planned for me to fund (without the money from the job he wanted me to leave   he really didn't think much through  ) were ALWAYS thrown back at me.

He found it very hard to accuse me of exploitation, as I paid for and provided everything for us- but settled for accusing me of 'using him for sex' - precisely what he was doing to me by the end, while I funded it all... .

I was also accused of being 'manipulative' as in 'using my money as a tool of power'... . eg paying for everything... . which he insisted I do; then stopping short when he demanded that for instance I buy  him a £2000 computer 'for his work' (non-paying!) or a 'house with studio space for him' (in London... . most expensive city in Europe!)

I found that particular projection about sex deeply sad; in effect he painted himself the 'whore' he often accused me of being. I think that in fact if you look 'back' at their projections a lot of what they say is what their original abuser said to them, or what they would like to say to that abuser. It's deeplly sad and I wish so much that I had never 'joined in' and shouted back, said my own wounding words which only damaged him and me more.

I should have walked away so much sooner... .

[GreenMango]

There comes a point when someone either looks at their history and if the pattern is a repeat of bad relationships and conflicts they might see the common denominator as themselves.  This takes a lot introspection, accepting responsibility, and a willingness to adjust themselves.  Hard stuff even for a capable adult.

I'd imagine if I had a disorder that puts barriers to doing this it is so much easier emotionally to blame or not to take ownership - it would be to painful.  Toxic shame kind of painful.

I know how/why my ex thought of people.  I try not to worry about his perceptions too much because when I look at the facts it severely undermines the truth.  He is allowed his perceptions - I'm allowed mine... . and nary the twain shall meet.

We are all entitled to our feelings - its just sometimes some peoples aren't real grounded, prosocial, or productive in facilitating the kind of life we want or need.  It's good to know when something is futile or a no-win, it told me when to let go.

[Suzn]

I ask this because my ex painted me black and told everybody that I was the "crazy" one in the relationship and I want to know if he truly believed that.

"Crazy" is a catch all word. It's used to describe everything these days. You won't find it in any clinical explanations, anywhere. What our exs, or anyone else, thinks is none of our business. Everyone is entitled to their own thoughts. What matters is what you think of yourself.

I can tell you my ex said this and many other things. Some of what she said was true, such as "you are controlling". I was! Very. She had no understanding of my issues any more than I had an understanding of hers at the time. I am a recovering codependent. Her behaviors made ME uncomfortable. I tried to control her, since she was in my environment. I have never had any appreciation for unpredictability, the source of this, my FOO.

Introspection can be a beautiful thing. Once I turned my focus to myself and my issues I could let go of things that were said back when because now I understand both of our roles. It no longer matters what was said. If I sat and thought about it it would only serve to transport me back to an angry and hurt time and why would I want to do that to myself? Neither of us were healthy then.