Borderline and identity, does it ever show ?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi,

I was actually wondering about something today.

As a borderline actually doesn't know it's own identity, are there moments in which the real identity of a borderline person comes to the surface, and if so, can one recognise these moments in one way or another ?

Reg

[Reg]

Hi,

I was actually wondering about something today.

As a borderline actually doesn't know it's own identity, are there moments in which the real identity of a borderline person comes to the surface, and if so, can one recognise these moments in one way or another ?

Reg

[shamrock]

I would often see the real person

That is why it is soo hard to dump BPD

[Reg]

Shamrock,

I've also thought in moments that I saw the real her, when she dared to mention some of her fears, or nightmares, but concerning other things I do have serious doubts if anything was real or not.  We may think that when they are nice and 'loving' that it was the real them, but I doubt even that to be their real identity, well the little they must have of that.

Reg

[Validation78]

Hi Reg!

What you see, both the bad and good is "the real" person. BPD is a personality disorder, meaning that the behaviors they exhibit are ingrained into who they are, which is what makes it hard to treat. DBT is a treatment that has proven to be sucessful, and, amongst other things, integrates the good and bad behaviors, and coping mechanisims of pwBPD.

Best Wishes,

Val78

[Reg]

Hi Val78,

Now that's a most curious and interesting thing you're mentioning on the matter.

So are you actually telling me that on moments that they are not mirroring others, or under heavy influence of others, this is the real person who comes to the surface, with all the positive and negative sides, which are when they are cured still present but in some kind of a controlled way ?

Hmm, so an overdosed moment of 'love' can actually mean that they do need a lot of real love in their further lifes just to give an example ?  Or do I have it wrong ?

Best regards,

Johan

[Reg]

With my last question I do mean of course when they are cured in a matter of speaking... .

[Blessed0329]

My ex had been in therapy before, and he worked very hard at maintaining some appearance of normalcy. He did do a lot of mirroring in order to "fit in" and not stand out as weird, and he functions in life through scripts. I went "off script" a lot with him, which would throw him into dysregulation until he regained his balance. As for who the "real" man was, I saw him emerge at times when we were alone. In groups he was always playing a role, and he felt much safer doing this.

[danley]

Regardless of BPD, I believe people do act differently in group settings or with different people. I don't act the same as I do when I'm working versus with friends. My beliefs don't change. With my ex it seemed like his beliefs changed around different people as I'm sure it was part of his mirroring. Everyone mirrors to a certain degree. Adapting to your surroundings.

When my ex was alone with me he would always voice his fears and negative feelings. He wasn't uncomfortable sharing these things with me. He could be himself and knew I wouldn't judge him. But with anyone else he felt the need to hide it. I understand in a sense. I wouldn't feel comfortable telling or showing my fears to people I don't trust or feel safe with. I believe in the moments where my ex would share his fears, etc. that this was his true self. The barriers were down and he put his vulnerability out there. It takes a lot for one to be vulnerable and open up. For a BPD, I think It's even harder being that they have a lot of shame and fears of being judged.

My ex does a great job of maintaining an appearance of normalcy to everyone. But somewhere along the line signs of something not being quite right with him starts to show. It's not a huge overnight change that others see. I've heard people call label him as hypersensitive as well as volatile. And these labels were assigned during situations where my ex was pushed to the edge and could no longer maintain his appearance of normalcy. The truth eventually comes out in some shape or form. The bad thing about it is that others only see the PG version while you see, live, and breathe the beast up close and personal.

[ObiRedKenobi]

Regardless of BPD, I believe people do act differently in group settings or with different people. I don't act the same as I do when I'm working versus with friends. My beliefs don't change. With my ex it seemed like his beliefs changed around different people as I'm sure it was part of his mirroring. Everyone mirrors to a certain degree. Adapting to your surroundings.

When my ex was alone with me he would always voice his fears and negative feelings. He wasn't uncomfortable sharing these things with me. He could be himself and knew I wouldn't judge him. But with anyone else he felt the need to hide it. I understand in a sense. I wouldn't feel comfortable telling or showing my fears to people I don't trust or feel safe with. I believe in the moments where my ex would share his fears, etc. that this was his true self. The barriers were down and he put his vulnerability out there. It takes a lot for one to be vulnerable and open up. For a BPD, I think It's even harder being that they have a lot of shame and fears of being judged.

My ex does a great job of maintaining an appearance of normalcy to everyone. But somewhere along the line signs of something not being quite right with him starts to show. It's not a huge overnight change that others see. I've heard people call label him as hypersensitive as well as volatile. And these labels were assigned during situations where my ex was pushed to the edge and could no longer maintain his appearance of normalcy. The truth eventually comes out in some shape or form. The bad thing about it is that others only see the PG version while you see, live, and breathe the beast up close and personal.

I've talked to a few people lately and they said they didn't know things were the way they were. From the outside looking in we looked perfect.

[mcc503764]

Appearance to the BPD is important.  I had many people say the same to me about appearing to be "happy," but behind closed doors they have NO way of knowing about the abuse, the push/pull, the subtle jabs, the devaluation, the isolation, the manipulating, the powerplays, the control... . the list goes on, (you get the point... . )

Then the hidden recycles (5+) for me since the breakup, the jealousy... . I am almost numb / blank when I think of it anymore... .

You never know where you stand with a borderline.  I could never count on mine to do / say the right thing.  Nothing but drama / chaos... . constantly!

I idealized mine in the beginning.  She presented herself as a caring person.  Empathetic.  But once the mask was off, I saw the real her.  I know that for my own sake, I have to remember her for the pain that she caused to me and my family.  I guess that kinda makes me angry, because I don't like to think of her like that?  But I have to, otherwise I am susceptible to another recycle which only continues the cycle of pain... .

I don't want to hold onto the hate, but I guess that "hate" is protecting me?

MCC

[Reg]

Thank you very much for all the reactions !

A few questions... .   Sorry 

Blessed, did your ex go through a complete therapy for BPD ?

I'm interested to hear about that.

Danley, it sounds all so familiar to me.  My ex borderline had been working with me and a group of twelve for over two years and nobody ever noticed a thing that would make us doubt she had a problem... .   I think we think likewise about the moments they showed their vulnerability and shared them with us.

ObiRedKenobi, I agree.  Heard and read the same.

MCC that is actually my point, when they seem to be caring, empathic, is that a part of the real personality which should surface after treatment... .

Any ideas on that ?  Articles ?  Stories ?

Thanks !

Reg

[Reg]

MCC,

Hate did protect me in the early stages of the breakup, but it also weakens us.  For me, and I've said it already a few times here in the group, it is important to understand it is not us, it is not them, it is the borderline... .

The more I understand it, the more I become almost neutral towards the whole situation myself in which I was.  Not that I want to have a restart !  But it makes it easier, at least for me it does.

For me it was simple in the end, get help or loose me completely.  She was thinking I wasn't able to do it, she was so wrong !

Reg

[mcc503764]

MCC that is actually my point, when they seem to be caring, empathic, is that a part of the real personality which should surface after treatment... .

Well, I have had to come to this conclusion for myself... . I DON'T KNOW?  Sounds strange I know, but if I look at her patterns, past relationships, and history, I can make the honest conclusion that she is a terrible person.

I am not saying that to be mean or to hold a grudge, I can only make that assumption by her actions.  Since I cant believe a single thing she says, that's all I have to base my opinion from... . the facts... . the actions.

Her words turned out to be nothing of who she truly is!  That's the part that hurts I guess.

The center of her existence revolves around one person... . HERSELF.

And honestly, Ive just come to the point to where I cant concern myself with the eternal question of "who she really is?"  That just takes too much space up in my head if I allow that... . space that is slowly becoming more occupied with ME!  That's just where I am at... .

I spent too much of MY life being consumed with that question.  Honestly I got sick of feeling that way so I made a change.  I still care and have empathy for her, but she has her own demons to face.

I wish her well

MCC

[Reg]

MCC,

I think you phrased it well, she has her own demons to face, if they refuse help, you can't help them, and even then, if they go in therapy, it is a very long and difficult road... .

I agree that it is hard to face the fact that their words are very often in a complete opposition with their actions and vice versa.

It is all so typical for BPD.  I think it is the right thing to focus on yourself ! An old friend of mine always said think about the positive in the negative.  In our case that is finding someone without all the bagage and PD's !   A new start in life !

Reg

[Blessed0329]

Reg, as for the therapy my ex had, I don't know for sure. He would throw out nuggets of info about himself at me, then run away to see how I took it. It took him a long time to break the news he has BPD. So long in fact that I already knew. And then he tried to minimize it and "Normalize" it (mild case, drugs he used during teen years messed him up, etc.) His horrendous childhood was explanation enough, but he'd rather let the whole world know he had a prior drug problem than that he has BPD. So we never got too far with the therapy discussion.

[bpdspell]

Borderline identity is what you see is what you get.

There's a huge misbelief that BPD is a teeny tiny part of who they are and that at the core is this overwhelmingly good natured soul. But that isn't true.

BPD is a personality and character disorder. This means that their behavior is the CORE of who they are; not separate and not a tiny piece. This is why the real them shows up as they drop their "play nice lovey dovey... . I just need someone to love me" representative. The representative hooks you with idealization; the real them devalues you and abuses you to get their needs met.

They can't cast off their personality like a person shedding a couple of pounds. Or a person taking off a pair of gloves and a hat. It is the person they have come to be. I know it's hard to accept that there are people who exist like this but who they show us to be is who they are.

Most of us cannot accept that this is who they are because we are blinded by our own need(s). It took me some time to see that I was an emotionally abandoned child searching desperately for unconditional love in others. I was so blinded by this need that I often accepted abuse and disrespect just to feel a modicum of validation and acceptance. Self-sacrifice was the continual price I paid to not feel the pain of aloneness and abandonment.

Maya Angelou says that when a person shows you who they are believe them! They have lived with themselves way longer than we have! Way before we've come into the picture. Do not be so blinded by your needs that you refuse to accept the behaviors that a person has shown you. My ex was 26, myself 36 when we met. Me fixing him would be me trying to fix the last 20 years of his life! And none of us here are miracle workers.

Most of us believe in the fantasy of fixing, rescuing and making someone else perfect for us. We delude ourselves into the twisted thinking of believing that love has the power to change the core of other human beings. Yes. Love is powerful but it does not have those kinds of superpowers.

Borderline identity is exactly what they show us. Deeply character flawed, ingrained and slow cooked from whence they were children.

Spell

[Reg]

Spell,

Thank you very much for this reaction, although I now see I have phrased my question in a wrong way partially, your reaction itself is a very interesting one on that matter.

I've seen through the whole process myself that it is indeed impossible to try to fix them, even when I didn't know about the BPD, it was actually one of the things I said myself, o irony, to her when she was convinced she could help someone who had BPD herself and a serious alcoholic problem at the side of that due to the BPD.

I do have given her in one way some more self confidence or something that may have looked like that, as she hated being photographed ( she had 20 to 25 photo's in her 10 years of marriage from herself next to the wedding, and I think about 200 during our 3.5 years of the relationship) and most of the time she didn't refuse being photographed, although she didn't like some of them, even when she looked good on them.  She preferred B/W photography by the way, it sounds almost as a referral to her way of thinking... .

But it is a most interesting reaction you gave.  It gives me more insight in the mind of BPD.

The wrongly phrased part of my question comes to this, I hope I do it correct this time LOL.

When a BPD had treatment, has learned that they do are someone, that they have to manage their thoughts etc, and is not relapsing - are they actually developing a real identity, a sense of selfworth, and if so, how does that relate to the person they once were.  Or is this not the case, or does it take a very long time ?

Reg

[bpdspell]

When a BPD had treatment, has learned that they do are someone, that they have to manage their thoughts etc, and is not relapsing - are they actually developing a real identity, a sense of selfworth, and if so, how does that relate to the person they once were.  Or is this not the case, or does it take a very long time ?

Reg

Hey Reg,

You've asked a very complex question that really depends on the individual.

There are also some huge misgivings about BPD's in treatment. There does tend to be this over simplistic myth that therapy fixes them in way similar to dusting cobwebs out of a corner.

Not so easy.

The healing process is layered and I would imagine especially difficult for a person who has layers of shame, twisted brain wiring, an over inflated ego, abuse issues... . in addition to the nightmarish memories they've accumulated through their toxic defense mechanisms. The recovery process has a lot to do with a person's insight and willingness to look in their own mirrors to truly evolve to a healthy place.

Many of us want them healed fast (fantasy thinking for speedy recover)... . .for us. Our motivation is often desperation because we are over-reliant on them saving us.

The outcome of treatment really depends on the motivation/desire of the individual to truly heal and feel whole.

Taking ownership and accountability of who we've been in life is never easy. BPD or not. But in answering your question I don't believe that the objective of therapy... . specifically with BPD... . is to give them a real identity. Therapy in my opinion is accepting that you have a problem, you accept you need help and you have a strong desire to change. Therapy is opening your heart to new ways of perspective because your old way of thinking and being is no longer serving you.

Clearly everyone who tries therapy does not go in with these motivations. Sometimes therapists are a part of the continuum of wanting others to be a "crutch" or "shield" or simply another hiding place... . not everyone who tries therapy goes in with the same objective.


Usually the rock bottom of pain is the driving force that seeks human beings to change.

I don't think therapy changes the core of who a person is. I think therapy is an invaluable tool in managing emotional toxicity. Therapy is not a shot, a magic bullet or a pill that erases the development of whom we come to be.

Does it take a long time? I suspect that it would be a long winding road to recovery. They've lived disordered since their childhood. And they're now adults with deeply ingrained character flaws and toxic minds and hearts. Again our wishes and needs tend to take precedence over the time intensive work required to get this person on track. BPD is a very serious mental and emotional disorder; it cannot be scratched out like dandruff flakes.

I would say at minimum two years of committed intensive therapy without the interference of our hopes and dreams banking on their progress. And celibacy. . But again... . it may take way longer than that... .

Reg. I'm not sure of the motivations of your questions but it seems that you are struggling to move forward in your own life. Have you taken ownership of your role in the toxic dance of BPD?

[Reg]

Hi Spell,

You nailed my question to the exact point on this matter.  Thank you very much ! 

I've been reading a lot on the net from BPD's who are so convinced about themselves that they have cured, actually claiming they have discovered who they really are, that it all sounded much to good to be the truth, certainly if they are just over two years or so in therapy.

It is as this site states, there's a lot of bull... . on the matter on the net, and one has to be very carefull with what one's reading.  And what to believe.  It took me one year to get rid of my borderline, not knowing that she had that, but that she had a serious problem.  That is now some half year ago. 

When a old friend heard my story, he's in psychiatry, he pointed me towards BPD, and after some discussions, and a talk with someone else in mental health as well, the result was very clear.  So I started looking deeper in to it, and also how to protect myself from her. 

I still had four talks with her on the matter of BPD, during the first one, she agreed, later it went to denial, and I decided not to put any further energy into it, and blocked her on social networks or just left some of them, new phone number, etc.  It had just been a trick to get me back, and decided not to run into it anymore.

It is now calm, but I know that I can expect new trials for contact from her side (she will have to stand at my door for that, and I know she has been to places where I go out again, so I just changed them).  I am convinced that she will not seek help, and she did put meanwhile herself in a situation that will be hard to get out, back with her husband... .

Actually I'm not really struggling anymore to move forward, I'm doing so now on a fast scale, but I started writing a book about what happened in the relationship, and how it relates to BPD.  It was a great therapy for myself.  And with discovering this site, it even made me take bigger steps forward.

So I want to bring the story forward but also the realities on the BPD and what to expect even with treatment, very little is written of this kind in my language for non specialists.  I'll see what I actually will do with it.  If nothing, it was great therapy as I mentioned.

I do not feel guilty anymore of any kind. I wrote more about this here :

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=205243.0

I also understand meanwhile why I did hold on to this relation longer then I should have.  And what she did see in me as a caretaker.

This is something double for me to.  I used to do management in retail shops that were in a bad situation and needed to be brought back to an acceptable or when possible high level.  I had learned to give people a second chance and even a third, but not more.  It has nu use.  It is funny how I did not use the same method in my relationship with her.  I meanwhile also understand why.

My previous relationship ended some 14 years ago, which I ended because she was becoming very dominant. LOL  I was still having my own bussiness at the time which I sold later, and was working after the end of the relationship 6.5 days on 7.  My parents were rather old when they got me, 41 and my mother has had serious health issues already since 20 years and my father could not handle it alone anymore.  So there I was, I was alone and decided to help them, something which is very classic here in my country, looked for another job, sold my own bizz.

I was still extremely busy with both a job and taking care of my parents, and in 2005 I started to go out again, I met several women, but there was no spark at all.  Or just for a small period of time.

I had worked together with my ex for over two years, she knew I was caring for my parents, so she must have thought I could fullfil her needs... .  

Looking back, I now realise very well that I had decided to fight for something that felt so right from the start, blinded by the extreme egocentric behaviour of her husband, not seeing for a long time that she actually could not let go of him either.  And fighting for the wrong reasons. 

Actually it is funny almost afterwards that I saw so many of the symptoms of borderline and confronted her with them.  She always tried to put the blame on me, as they all do, or try to play games with my mind to change the reality in my head, and that didn't work as I do have a very good memory.  But some of the other tricks did work, damn !

I'm returning back to the old me, I'm going out, see my friends more often, talk about what happened sometimes, my health has improved a lot ( went through my back almost a year ago and could hardly walk after this ) and I'm back ready to get a new job, as I will never be able to do again what I did.

It was a hard year, my father also died three months ago, but I'm back for the biggest part, I've accepted the past, taken lessons, feel no guilt, feel no more anger.  It is not her it is the borderline, she can't help that, it is sad that she doesn't understand it, but it is her decision.  I'm not happy with the damage she (and I also) have done to her daughter on an emotional level, and I do feel sorry for her daughter, but also know that there's nothing I can do anymore.

Am I completely healed, probably not, but I'm decided not to let her in my life again, I'm becoming more and more decided in what I do and I feel good about it.  I have to take the lessons, learn from them as we all do.

Sincere thanks for the answer and help !  I do appreciate this.  And hope you're moving in the right direction as well.

Johan

[bpdspell]

Hi Spell,

You nailed my question to the exact point on this matter.  Thank you very much ! 

I've been reading a lot on the net from BPD's who are so convinced about themselves that they have cured, actually claiming they have discovered who they really are, that it all sounded much to good to be the truth, certainly if they are just over two years or so in therapy.

It is as this site states, there's a lot of bull... . on the matter on the net, and one has to be very carefull with what one's reading.  And what to believe.  It took me one year to get rid of my borderline, not knowing that she had that, but that she had a serious problem.  That is now some half year ago. 

When a old friend heard my story, he's in psychiatry, he pointed me towards BPD, and after some discussions, and a talk with someone else in mental health as well, the result was very clear.  So I started looking deeper in to it, and also how to protect myself from her. 

I still had four talks with her on the matter of BPD, during the first one, she agreed, later it went to denial, and I decided not to put any further energy into it, and blocked her on social networks or just left some of them, new phone number, etc.  It had just been a trick to get me back, and decided not to run into it anymore.

It is now calm, but I know that I can expect new trials for contact from her side (she will have to stand at my door for that, and I know she has been to places where I go out again, so I just changed them).  I am convinced that she will not seek help, and she did put meanwhile herself in a situation that will be hard to get out, back with her husband... .

Actually I'm not really struggling anymore to move forward, I'm doing so now on a fast scale, but I started writing a book about what happened in the relationship, and how it relates to BPD.  It was a great therapy for myself.  And with discovering this site, it even made me take bigger steps forward.

So I want to bring the story forward but also the realities on the BPD and what to expect even with treatment, very little is written of this kind in my language for non specialists.  I'll see what I actually will do with it.  If nothing, it was great therapy as I mentioned.

I do not feel guilty anymore of any kind. I wrote more about this here :

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=205243.0

I also understand meanwhile why I did hold on to this relation longer then I should have.  And what she did see in me as a caretaker.

This is something double for me to.  I used to do management in retail shops that were in a bad situation and needed to be brought back to an acceptable or when possible high level.  I had learned to give people a second chance and even a third, but not more.  It has nu use.  It is funny how I did not use the same method in my relationship with her.  I meanwhile also understand why.

My previous relationship ended some 14 years ago, which I ended because she was becoming very dominant. LOL  I was still having my own bussiness at the time which I sold later, and was working after the end of the relationship 6.5 days on 7.  My parents were rather old when they got me, 41 and my mother has had serious health issues already since 20 years and my father could not handle it alone anymore.  So there I was, I was alone and decided to help them, something which is very classic here in my country, looked for another job, sold my own bizz.

I was still extremely busy with both a job and taking care of my parents, and in 2005 I started to go out again, I met several women, but there was no spark at all.  Or just for a small period of time.

I had worked together with my ex for over two years, she knew I was caring for my parents, so she must have thought I could fullfil her needs... .  

Looking back, I now realise very well that I had decided to fight for something that felt so right from the start, blinded by the extreme egocentric behaviour of her husband, not seeing for a long time that she actually could not let go of him either.  And fighting for the wrong reasons. 

Actually it is funny almost afterwards that I saw so many of the symptoms of borderline and confronted her with them.  She always tried to put the blame on me, as they all do, or try to play games with my mind to change the reality in my head, and that didn't work as I do have a very good memory.  But some of the other tricks did work, damn !

I'm returning back to the old me, I'm going out, see my friends more often, talk about what happened sometimes, my health has improved a lot ( went through my back almost a year ago and could hardly walk after this ) and I'm back ready to get a new job, as I will never be able to do again what I did.

It was a hard year, my father also died three months ago, but I'm back for the biggest part, I've accepted the past, taken lessons, feel no guilt, feel no more anger.  It is not her it is the borderline, she can't help that, it is sad that she doesn't understand it, but it is her decision.  I'm not happy with the damage she (and I also) have done to her daughter on an emotional level, and I do feel sorry for her daughter, but also know that there's nothing I can do anymore.

Am I completely healed, probably not, but I'm decided not to let her in my life again, I'm becoming more and more decided in what I do and I feel good about it.  I have to take the lessons, learn from them as we all do.

Sincere thanks for the answer and help !  I do appreciate this.  And hope you're moving in the right direction as well.

Johan

Johan. Condolences for your father. 

I totally understand being a caretaker for your parents. My mother had me at 19 and had four more children after me. Her poor choices in men often left her abandoned and by default I would end up being the caretaker for my siblings because I was the eldest. It was an unbelievable amount of pressure... . caring for siblings and not being nurtured and validated myself but I suspect this is what our BPD's pick up on... . our ability to be natural caretakers.

I have mourned and grieved being robbed of my childhood experience and being forced to be an adult-like for my mother and siblings. It has being very hard making peace with what is but everyday of insight is a day of healing.

My mother's still alive and I have forgiven her but it took a lot of therapy and a desire to heal to arrive at this point in my journey. I carried a lot of deeply held resentment inside of me for a long time and I suspect that's how I attracted my ex as well. It's a difficult pill to swallow but our ex's often mirror us and we often mirror parts of them as well.

My ex and I shared a common bond of victimhood. It was a narrative that we shared. I saw myself as a victim and he did too. Seeing this side of myself had really helped make me a better person and I'll always thank my ex for that.

Spell

[Reg]

Spell,

Thanks for the condolences !

Coming to read your story, which must have been a difficult one, I can only imagine what it must have been.

I came from a warm nest, at least I always thought so, untill my father past away.  Both my parents went to the retirement home almost 7 years ago.  The last 4 years my father became more and more of a women hater, due to his Alzheimer, it seems his first marriage must have reapeared in his mind, which did get him in a lot of trouble, broken, and as good as without one penny and a child on his name which wasn't his own as did become clear afterwards.

It also did lead to more problems between my borderline and me.  Curiously, my mother is the only person I know of that she never said a bad word about - which could not be said of even her own closest family... .

I remember my father as very caring when I was little, but when I grew older he became more distant, and did not express a lot on his feelings.  He was always there for me, for a talk, for advice, but I actually never heard him tell me again that he loved me or to take care when I became an adult.  He was also sometimes stubbern, his father was terrible on that same matter.  I luckily don't have that problem in a serious way at all.

It was a very curious thing that my mother was very bad and we expected her to die any moment and he had been falling a few times the same week.  Was in a bad shape.  On Monday 8 April I went to them, the home is very closeby, and he was in bed still recuperating from falling. I had a brilliantly clear talk with him, no trace of Alzheimer at all, for the first time in many years, no anger, no other problems he had due to it.

He asked me on the situation with my ex, talked about my health, talked about my future, talked about my books I'm writing, told me twice to take good care of me.  I left the home in a little confused positive way. Two hours later his heart gave up in his sleep.  Afterwards it was the best goodbye I could have wished for.  My mother couldn't even go to his funeral but is now again much better.  Every day is a gift, as she was predicted to die already two and a half years ago... .  

I did change after that, I enjoyed it a lot more to go to the retirement home, as the situation with my father made it sometimes difficult and my mother was clearly suffering from the situation.

But I also discovered for the very first time that they had suffered some serious problems during their marriage in moments, due to the stubbern side from my father.  A very curious thing as all I had ever seen between my parents was love.  They just had made the decision, that no matter what they would never show it to me and they did so very well... .

It was a really nice thing to do for me, but it also made me understand that some of the things I saw were an illusion in moments.  And understand now, their moments of greater silence between the two of them.  The only moment I once saw my father in real anger, was when he did put his fist on the table, smashing accidently a tomato, which was so stupid and funny we all started laughing.

Curious how we may not see things that happen in a matter of speaking right under our nose... .

But your story also reminded me of something else from my ex.  Actually she was a caretaker also.  When her youngest brother was born, 15 years after her, she was to become in a way his mother for several years, as the real mom still was never there as she also had never been there for my ex (she grew up with her aunt and grandmother mostly) all they did was working, working and working, both of her parents.  Only being there, her mother that is, when she was really ill or so.

Talking about mirrors in a way... .

Curiously I've never ever felt like a real victim of anything.  Except now for the borderline, not the person... .

Life hasn't always been gentle to me either, I lost my first love in my early twenties in a fire at her work.  But I've always gotten back on my feet.  I wasn't even a caretaker in the real sense at all, I was and usually am very realistic, and when some years later I met someone who had been very seriously sexually abused, who was very attracted to me, maybe seeing a caretaker in me, I saw that this was a situation in which I could not help and didn't let go things into a relationship, even started to avoid her as her mind was terribly twisted... . Telling her she needed help several times, but that was it.  She definitely had a PD more of a PTSD I guess.

I had never been in contact with any other BPD's before, and when in a relationship with mine, during the last hick ups of our relationship, she was surrounded by several known ones.

You've been through a lot more then I have, but the conclusion is I guess, we are still standing !  And if we watch out and take lessons from what happened, it can only get better ! 

Thanks for sharing your story with me as well, it takes guts to be honest with and about ourselves sometimes !

Reg

[bpdspell]

You've been through a lot more then I have, but the conclusion is I guess, we are still standing !  And if we watch out and take lessons from what happened, it can only get better ! 

Thanks for sharing your story with me as well, it takes guts to be honest with and about ourselves sometimes !

Reg

No worries.

In respect of our shared humanity I feel all pain is the same. I don't believe that my hurt is any more painful than any hurt you've ever experienced. Hurt is hurt; but it's how we respond to it that defines the quality of our lives.

I was only with my BPD ex for 10 months. I am very fortunate. Some on this board have married their BPD's, created children and have handed over a better part of their lives to their significant others in numerations of 10 years, 20... . and some even 30 years... .

My parents truly loved each other but the exchange was more unhealthy and toxic... . my mother also struggle with clinically undiagnosed depression. Our parents are people first and they have their own struggles in life as well... . sounds like your father had a few emotional struggles of his own. Often our parents don't have the tools to communicate to their children when their in the midst of an emotional rough patch... .

As an adult I can look back and see how my mother struggled emotionally... . I completely forgive her now but as a little girl it broke me. I now see that she did what she knew best with what she had. I am now on the quest to become a fully actualized woman that isn't controlled by this sad little girl who was devastated in her childhood.

Spell