Forgiving/healing

[Depression = 72% of members]

So after reading on this board about how we are attracted to BPD people. Possible due to low self esteem issues from growing up. And reading that we should look at what or why we needed to go through this, because of our own mental issues that we need to work on. The article said we should if possible try to forgive the person. So I was thinking on writing her or maybe waiting to hear from my x-GF. Maybe a few months or year from now. I was thinking about what I would say on the phone or write something along these lines.

From a phone call from her. Her: Hi, how are you doing? Me: I’m doing well. Her: I’m sorry for leaving you blah, blah, blah…. Her: So are you dating/seeing anyone? Me: (not answering that question) Say, hey I wanted to tell you “I love you for being with me over the last several years, I had a great time back then with you.  I’m sorry that the relationship ended as quickly as it did and hope you are doing OK. I hope you forgive me, for hurting you if you feel that way, it was not my intention. Thank you for playing a part in your life that allowed me to grow and learn. I hope you are able to get yourself some counseling to help you to heal. Goodbye and good luck to you. End call.

So would this type response be advisable from you folks who have been there done that and have the shirt to prove it. I want to forgive but how best do you go about that?  Will this type response just go up like gasoline and a lit match?

[dangoldfool]

So after reading on this board about how we are attracted to BPD people. Possible due to low self esteem issues from growing up. And reading that we should look at what or why we needed to go through this, because of our own mental issues that we need to work on. The article said we should if possible try to forgive the person. So I was thinking on writing her or maybe waiting to hear from my x-GF. Maybe a few months or year from now. I was thinking about what I would say on the phone or write something along these lines.

From a phone call from her. Her: Hi, how are you doing? Me: I’m doing well. Her: I’m sorry for leaving you blah, blah, blah…. Her: So are you dating/seeing anyone? Me: (not answering that question) Say, hey I wanted to tell you “I love you for being with me over the last several years, I had a great time back then with you.  I’m sorry that the relationship ended as quickly as it did and hope you are doing OK. I hope you forgive me, for hurting you if you feel that way, it was not my intention. Thank you for playing a part in your life that allowed me to grow and learn. I hope you are able to get yourself some counseling to help you to heal. Goodbye and good luck to you. End call.

So would this type response be advisable from you folks who have been there done that and have the shirt to prove it. I want to forgive but how best do you go about that?  Will this type response just go up like gasoline and a lit match?

[Octoberfest]

A few thoughts... .

My T told me something in our last session that I will pass to you.  She told me that,

You are powerless over any outcome with <BPDex>

You have power over you

Because the first line might seem a little concerning, that is to say, we DO NOT have any control over how they perceive things or act.  The most well intentioned apology or contact otherwise can be horrendously misinterpreted by our BPDex's and can open up a whole new can of worms.

Think carefully about what forgiving and healing really entail. Think about who really wants the forgiving.  Is your BPDex actively seeking your forgiveness? Or rather, do you, by your own accord, really want to give it to her? For me, and I think maybe for you as well, it is the latter.  It makes sense; for us, forgiving IS healing.  It is us giving ourselves permission to move on, to close that chapter in our lives so that we may open new ones.

Your next question is, in order to forgive, do I need to make contact with my BPDex and tell them that I forgive them.  I will argue no; because I HAVE, and it has not been productive.

Look at what you wrote, how you imagine that conversation going:

Me: (not answering that question) Say, hey I wanted to tell you “I love you for being with me over the last several years, I had a great time back then with you.  I’m sorry that the relationship ended as quickly as it did and hope you are doing OK. I hope you forgive me, for hurting you if you feel that way, it was not my intention. Thank you for playing a part in your life that allowed me to grow and learn. I hope you are able to get yourself some counseling to help you to heal. Goodbye and good luck to you. End call.

In reference to the first bold part, NO. NO NO NO. 

It is healthy and respectable to wish for someone who is facing some real challenges in their lives to have it better, to be "OK" or otherwise be happier.  But I can tell you FROM EXPERIENCE, that saying, "I hope you forgive me, for hurting you if you feel that way" is a one way ticket deeper into the rabbits hole.  You are lowering your defenses yet again to a person who has proved time and time again that instead of respecting that show of fealty, take advantage of it and hurt you for it.  We are all human, and all of us NON's made mistakes in our relationships.

And now, another piece from my T that REALLY struck something with me.  She told me,

"You were a good partner to <BPDex>.  It's not your fault."

She repeated that line and each time I lost it more.  I cried and cried and really released that guilt that I had been harboring inside me for the failed relationship.  All of the hurt and betrayal that I had put up with and suffered in order to continue being with a person who did nothing but hurt me.

By saying, "I hope you forgive me," you are seeking reassurance and validation from someone who blames everyone else for their problems and shortcomings, and paints people black rather than acknowledge their role in conflict.  Think about how destructive that is.

To the second bolded part,

You are throwing gasoline on a fire IMO.  Most pwBPD are undiagnosed, and even those who are diagnosed and in treatment (like my BPDex) have awareness of their disorder that is fleeting.  My BPDex was aware she had BPD, was going to treatment for it, yet it ABSOLUTELY still ruled her life and decision making process.  It was like a switch gets thrown and the awareness is engulfed by the disorder.  Telling a person who believes that EVERYONE ELSE is the problem, "I hope you are able to get yourself some counseling to help you to heal" is an invitation for retaliation.  Is it the truth? Sure.  Do they need to hear it? Probably.  Will it get through to them or change their mind? Nope.  Is it your job anymore what they do with their life? NO.

Forgiving has played a critical part in healing for me.  But you can forgive without any interaction with your BPDex.

I am at a point now FINALLY (after MUCH time on a roller coaster of emotion; who knows if I am actually off it) where I am at peace (being a relative term, in comparison to where I was when I was in the relationship and immediately following it) with the facts that:

I was a good partner

It is not a matter of me not having done enough or bad luck having struck the relationship

My BPDex was not a good partner. She was not loyal or honest or fair.

I deserve better in a partner.  Wanting someone who will not cheat and not lie is not asking much.

My BPDex was broken long before me and will be long after me

I don't hate her, but at the same time I want nothing further to do with her ever again.  I can see much more clearly now that she and I were never meant for each other.   We come from completely different backgrounds and have completely different perspectives on people and the world. The way she handles sex and relationships is completely counter to the way I do.  Cheating and lying is how she lives, and God knows it is not how I do.

So, dangoldfool. Forgive her.  Heal.  Write a letter to her forgiving her and never send it or burn it.  But IMO, you are only inviting trouble by asking someone who emotionally is a child to behave like an adult and give you the closure you so desperately want.

[Surnia]

Dangoldfool

I agree with you about looking at our own stuff and that we can do something to our own healing.

Honestly I would put this first. When you are feeling better with yourself, forgiving can be a side effect. And there is no need to make contact with your ex to say this.

Octoberfest had some good advice about writing a letter and not send it.

[dangoldfool]

Octoberfest, I think your right on target, with your advice. I don’t want to shake the cage. I need to get counseling for my part in this nightmare, and move on. I will do the letter and burn it up to help me move forward. Also I need to avoid all contact with her, and my x-friends, who I thought were my friends. I know they relay messages back to her. Bye bye face book. Hello therapist. Thanks you for sharing your experiences to help me. Peace 

[Surnia]

Bye bye face book. Hello therapist.

i love this one! 

[Ittookthislong]

as for forgiveness and letting go- i think the worst/hardest part was/is the trying to make the distinction between  if they were or werent BPD, and which one of you is crazy. i kind of wish that a long time ago i forgot the act of trying to diagnose myself or my ex and just considerred it a "borderline relationship"

that way its not so much about blameing yourself or them, but more like chemistry... . when the two of you got together this is how it exploded. this is how things react when you put the two of you together. like when you put mentos in a diet coke, or baking soda and vinegar (best example i could come up with, i barely passed chemistry ha).

I think thinking of it that way makes it easier to forgive and hopefully let go. its not the vinegars fault or the baking sodas fault that together they react like this, but they do, and unless you wanna do a whole lot of clean up, or you want to do a risky science experiment to learn a lesson, then its best not to put the two together. if that makes any sense

[dangoldfool]

Ittookthislong, Interesting analysis, At this point for me I know I have self esteem problems and I am starting tomorrow seeing a therapist. Until this point in my life I didn’t know or recognize that I had this issue myself. As weird as it sounds, I had to get into this relationship for the last three years. And just recently have my heart ripped out of my chest, (at least it felt like it). And then I started to search for what was wrong with her.. After reading a lot on this board, and about what part I have played. I guess I have to look as this as a blessing in a strange kinda way. I’ve always have been the way I am. So I was thinking I was normal, . Right now, I’m still sad about the break-up, and hoping to stay strong over the months, to not make any contact. However I’m excited to start therapy hoping for great progress so I can get into a healthy relationship with a life time partner. Something I could never have done in this low self esteem state I have been living in for way to long. As I think back to my wife I married 15 years or so back. She may have had this same type issue. She kept trying to overdose. After years of therapy she would get better then take pills to overdose on. They never came up with this BPD as a problem. After 10 years of marriage we made love on what would be her last night with me. The connection was like we were on our honeymoon for me. The next day she apparently overdosed while I went to work with a friend. l had taken my 2 kids with me. When we returned later in the day she was dead on the kitchen floor.

So I know I need to get help. I want a life time loving relationship were we die of natural causes. Having lived a healthy life loving sharing giving ourselves to each other. Is that too much to ask GOD.

P.S. ……God, Thank you for walking with me through all this. At times I felt I was all alone... but I know your always there sometimes even carrying me…. Why God, do you have anything to do with me after I hardly ever called for your help in my life is amazing to me… but I’m glad you still love me…. Thank you.   

[Ittookthislong]

WOW, that must have been really traumatic. Im sorry, you have to be a strong person to have been there. Interesting you mention God. This has solidified my faith. I have this caretaking compulsion, if im around someone who gives me the vibe that they need help, however subtle, i cannot turn my back on them. You may have this too from what it sounds like- if you dont mind me suggesting that.

Anyways, Ive never been religeous at all really, just never thought about it or went to church since childhood. But after all this I had a moment where i swear out of nowhere where i wasnt even thinking about it and the thought literally popped into my head "Im sorry this is what I had to do to show you" I just started crying and thinking the same thing you did, about God. Some people get angry at God when bad things happen, i remember feeling so humble and thankful- and felt very safe - thankful that to show me I was going down a bad route that this is the bad thing that had to illustrate it for me, when it coulda been so much worse, aka who knows- a natural disaster, victim of a crime, whatever really really bad things, including whatever Bpd's have suffered through to make them so lost. This made me feel an unbelievable ammount of sympathy/empathy for them but also made it very clear that I ultimatly had to figure it out and I cannot exhaust myself trying to love and help someone who cant see it.

If someones going to do it, th ey have to do it when they hit their breaking point. that takes so much for me to say that because to me that sounds selfish. I deplore selfishness. That being said im going to have to work on the balance between compassion and completely lsoing my way by fixing someone else.

I dont mean to turn this into a religeous thing, I mean this in a philosophical way for those who have different faith. But for you, i think that was lovely to add that at the bottom, and I think its a really really good thing that you take that route of thinking. It shows your on a good path to healing

[Ittookthislong]

sort of Gods way of saying "step back kiddo, i got this, you worry about you"

[Ittookthislong]

for the non spiritual perspective, i dated an ex marine with ptsd- whole other can of worms, but he told me a saying marines had which was "never pet a burning dog." i think that applies to alot of peoples experiences here

[dangoldfool]

Ittookthislong, you summed up everything I was thinking nicely. I really feel grateful for the way it ended during the break-up. I see how this break-up could have gotten so bad. I was lucky or blessed and taken care of by someone/thing. To me that someone or something is God but could be called by other names depending on your culture. This event definitely has me looking at life more from a spiritual set of eyes. And the comfort I got from praying, has guided me here and to a number of helpful resources. I can’t explain how or why it works, but it works for me. Thank you for contributing your thoughts. May GOD richly bless you.     

[Surnia]

Dangoldfool

So I know I need to get help. I want a life time loving relationship were we die of natural causes. Having lived a healthy life loving sharing giving ourselves to each other. Is that too much to ask GOD.

No, it is not to much, believe me. You deserve it.

I think it is a good plan to reach out for a T. It will help to change those repeating patterns.

Take care!

[VeryFree]

Just do what you think is right for you.

But be aware: don't expect any positive reaction from your xBPD. On the contrary: be happy if she doesn't reply, because there's a big chance that your words are wrongly explained and will backfire on you.

Ask yourself what you want to accomplish by letting her know you forgive her and if contacting her is the only way.

[dangoldfool]

Surnia, Thank you. I start today with my T. I'm a bit scared but excited at the same time.

Hey, a little off the subject. Do you know how to look up past member post. I've read some post by 2010. But can't seem to look at other post by this member. Is that possible to do on here?

[tailspin]

 

For me, forgiveness was pivotal in my healing, but here's the thing:  forgiveness is about us and not them.  I seriously doubt my ex cares if I've forgiven him or not.  But it was important to me because I didn't want to keep the hate in my heart any longer.  Forgiveness for me was letting go of the hate so I could accept self love because I didn't believe there was room for both.

I think any conversation I would have with my ex about forgiveness would be met with some spite and possibly confusion/hostility because in his mind... . what's there to forgive really? 

Forgiveness = Freedom

Your freedom.  Do it for you. 

tailspin

[mcc503764]

I was a good partner

It is not a matter of me not having done enough or bad luck having struck the relationship

My BPDex was not a good partner. She was not loyal or honest or fair.

I deserve better in a partner.  Wanting someone who will not cheat and not lie is not asking much.

My BPDex was broken long before me and will be long after me

I don't hate her, but at the same time I want nothing further to do with her ever again.  I can see much more clearly now that she and I were never meant for each other.

I recently tried this with my x.  Bad move... . bad move... . I thought it would help with my healing to tell her that I had let go of the hate and anger.  That the hate/anger was too exhausting.  I wasn't looking to be "friends," but I wasn't looking to hate anymore... .

Well, as you probably guessed, there was no acknowledgement for anything that I shared with her.  It, as always, turned into all about HER?

Only she could ever take MY feelings and turn them around to be about HER!  She appeared to take my gesture as an attack on her, and a chance to "beat her up?"  Perpetual Victim... . plain and simple

So I tried to express my "forgiveness," but she wouldn't accept it... . So, I had to cut all contact, once again, and silently forgive her, but most importantly, FORGIVE MYSELF!

There will never be a time when she's "seen the light," but that's ok.  I don't need her to.  That's her own personal journey, I cannot control that... .

What I can control is MYSELF.  That's my focus. 

MCC

[dangoldfool]

tailspin, I feel the same way as you. I just want to release the anger and move on in peace. I just hope I stay strong enough to ignore any future contact.  

[mcc503764]

I am nearing indifference I guess myself... . does it matter anymore?  I never imagined that I'd feel like this... . I never really wanted to feel like this, but the reality of the situation is here... .

I tried to "take the high road," with my x by telling her that I wasn't going to hate her anymore.  At the end of the day, I refuse to harbor anymore anger / hate towards her.  That's the healthiest option for ME... .

I guess perhaps I was seeking some form of validation from my x?  (Still to some extent... . but she never could provide it when I was with her, so why would I even think she could do it now?)  I loathe the thought that I was still seeking this from her... .

So, there is nothing left to say.  I know that I did the best I could with what I had to work with.  That absolves most of the guilt from my shoulders.  I can walk away with dignity and respect and the confidence to know!

That is my resolve

MCC

[Octoberfest]

I was a good partner

It is not a matter of me not having done enough or bad luck having struck the relationship

My BPDex was not a good partner. She was not loyal or honest or fair.

I deserve better in a partner.  Wanting someone who will not cheat and not lie is not asking much.

My BPDex was broken long before me and will be long after me

I don't hate her, but at the same time I want nothing further to do with her ever again.  I can see much more clearly now that she and I were never meant for each other.

I recently tried this with my x.  Bad move... . bad move... . I thought it would help with my healing to tell her that I had let go of the hate and anger.  That the hate/anger was too exhausting.  I wasn't looking to be "friends," but I wasn't looking to hate anymore... .

Well, as you probably guessed, there was no acknowledgement for anything that I shared with her.  It, as always, turned into all about HER?

Only she could ever take MY feelings and turn them around to be about HER!  She appeared to take my gesture as an attack on her, and a chance to "beat her up?"  Perpetual Victim... . plain and simple

So I tried to express my "forgiveness," but she wouldn't accept it... . So, I had to cut all contact, once again, and silently forgive her, but most importantly, FORGIVE MYSELF!

There will never be a time when she's "seen the light," but that's ok.  I don't need her to.  That's her own personal journey, I cannot control that... .

What I can control is MYSELF.  That's my focus. 

MCC

Maybe it was unclear from my post, but I did not ever go and say those things to my Ex.  Those are internal resolutions.  You saw exactly why I did not say those things ( or really, why THIS time I chose to keep them to myself.  I HAD gone to her previously looking for some resolution or closure from her- big mistake)- they only lead to you being trapped in that never ending circle for longer.

I am nearing indifference I guess myself... . does it matter anymore?  I never imagined that I'd feel like this... . I never really wanted to feel like this, but the reality of the situation is here... .

I tried to "take the high road," with my x by telling her that I wasn't going to hate her anymore.  At the end of the day, I refuse to harbor anymore anger / hate towards her.  That's the healthiest option for ME... .

I guess perhaps I was seeking some form of validation from my x?  (Still to some extent... . but she never could provide it when I was with her, so why would I even think she could do it now?)  I loathe the thought that I was still seeking this from her... .

So, there is nothing left to say.  I know that I did the best I could with what I had to work with.  That absolves most of the guilt from my shoulders.  I can walk away with dignity and respect and the confidence to know!

That is my resolve

MCC

I did not always have the attitude of "I don't hate her".  In fact, it wasn't until that I got really mad at her and what she did to me and the injustice of it all (I have a thread on here in the past week and a half or so concerning it) that I was able to move to a more peaceful place like the one i am in now.  In some ways, I think I needed to try and have dialogue with her and look for that closure and see that all I would get by doing so is more hurt in order to cement for me that moving on REALLY IS an option, and the one that needs to happen.

Absolving the guilt from your shoulders... . Doesn't it feel incredible? As I wrote in my first response in this thread, when my therapist told me "You were a good partner.  It wasn't your fault", I felt such a weight lift from my shoulders.  It was like I had been under a wet blanket and I finally took it off.  I had been holding myself responsible for all of her problems, all of the cheating and lying.  What a burden.

Something else that my T said that may be applicable to others here:

I like many others here wanted to "Save" my BPDex.  To make her stop hurting, to fix her, etc.  And I took her own baggage, her own burdens (meaning emotional burdens, not financial or otherwise) upon herself.  She would tell me about her past, how she was supposedly raped, found her then husband in bed with another woman, all sorts of awful things, and I would put that weight on my shoulders, as if doing so would take it off of hers.  It depressed me to think about all of these things she had been through, even though they were long before me and had nothing to do with me.

My therapist told me, "Imagine a scenario where you are giving her back her burdens.  Say, 'I respect you enough to give you back your own pain'".  I have been working on doing so.  On one hand it makes me more sad in a way because I know how thinking about those things affected ME, and I can't even imagine how they affect her, who they actually happened to.  She has to live with all of it for the rest of her life.  That is incredibly sad to me.  On the other hand though, it frees me to really let go.  I can't keep harboring feelings for this person.  It isn't feasible nor is it healthy.


You seem to be in a pretty similar place as I am MCC... . it is a marked improvement in my book from where I have been.

May we continue to move forward.

[mcc503764]

In some ways, I think I needed to try and have dialogue with her and look for that closure and see that all I would get by doing so is more hurt in order to cement for me that moving on REALLY IS an option, and the one that needs to happen.

All of my friends thought I was NUTS for even speaking to her, and I can see how it would appear as such.  But I was speaking to her to obtain my OWN closure from everything... .

I could plainly see that she is still bats%^t... . It didn't matter if I was still in the game or not, she was still repeating her same patterns.  Still contradicting everything, still manipulating, and still lying... . It pissed me off for a second, because all I could think to myself is, "what are you trying to prove?" and "are you trying to convince me or yourself?"

The contact did serve its purpose for me.  It allowed me to see things from the sideline, because we all know when we are in it, we cannot possibly see it from that angle?

Again, that was the resolve that I needed.  That was the "closure" that I needed to find that I couldn't count on her to give me... . ever!

I got what I needed, I got the confirmation I needed... . I am GOOD and finally at peace with the situation!

I wish her well.

MCC