Roping Us In

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

One thing that surprises me as I think back over various reengagements from the past after a cut-off... .is how many times he was able to convince me to stay WITHOUT giving me a full commitment or anything like that.

You'd think, especially the times he got me back after I cut him off, that "beggars can't be choosers," that he would have to offer "unconditional surrender" because the person who is eating crow or trying to come crawling back would be in no position to negotiate because they're the one who has revealed that, really, they want you back.

And yet every time he came back, he was able to convince me that it would be worth my time to give him "more time" (of stringing along and jerking around) and yet WITHOUT a full commitment or acquiescing to all my demands.

How do they do it? You'd think that, if they approach you after no contact... .they would be in the "submissive" position and be forced to give you whatever you want in order to get what they want (you back, to frantically avoid the abandonment, or whatever). Yet time after time I was fooled into somehow thinking that even though he was crawling back to me... .that I had to compromise on what I wanted or had a right to expect from him.

Next time around, if another recycle happens, I want to be prepared to see through this tactic and be willing to say "No, absolute not" for anything short of "all the marbles" (that is to say: a total declaration of commitment, attending therapy, making both public to his family and friends so that they'll hold him accountable, going into no contact with the alcoholic ex he enables, etc etc). In my head I imagine that if he had the audacity to come back one more time, it would have to be as a complete beggar given the things he said to me. And yet, I'm terrified he'll come back with something like "So, I tried things with the ex, they didn't work, but now I thought maybe I would be willing to explore things with you... ." and I want to be prepared to dismiss such sweet-talking and say, "Nope. I'm not taking a 'maybe.' When you want to admit you love me and want to be with me, no ambiguity or ambivalence, then I'll consider it. I'm not coming back for more string-along."

I know the first time I ever cut him off for his waffling games and he came crawling back (this was over two years ago now) I had the strength to say "No" when he tried to win me back with this sort of vague "maybe" language... .and a few days later he DID in fact give me "unconditional surrender" (broke up with the boyfriend, pledged his love for me, etc). He reneged on that later, granted, but this time I would accept nothing less than therapy and being introduced to his family as his boyfriend (which I think would provide a little more stability). I want to be strong enough to not accept any more "maybes." If HE comes back to ME, then he shouldn't feel like he is in any position to negotiate or to do anything other than be willing to meet my (reasonable) demands.

How can I ensure that I won't fall for it again?

[UmbrellaBoy]

One thing that surprises me as I think back over various reengagements from the past after a cut-off... .is how many times he was able to convince me to stay WITHOUT giving me a full commitment or anything like that.

You'd think, especially the times he got me back after I cut him off, that "beggars can't be choosers," that he would have to offer "unconditional surrender" because the person who is eating crow or trying to come crawling back would be in no position to negotiate because they're the one who has revealed that, really, they want you back.

And yet every time he came back, he was able to convince me that it would be worth my time to give him "more time" (of stringing along and jerking around) and yet WITHOUT a full commitment or acquiescing to all my demands.

How do they do it? You'd think that, if they approach you after no contact... .they would be in the "submissive" position and be forced to give you whatever you want in order to get what they want (you back, to frantically avoid the abandonment, or whatever). Yet time after time I was fooled into somehow thinking that even though he was crawling back to me... .that I had to compromise on what I wanted or had a right to expect from him.

Next time around, if another recycle happens, I want to be prepared to see through this tactic and be willing to say "No, absolute not" for anything short of "all the marbles" (that is to say: a total declaration of commitment, attending therapy, making both public to his family and friends so that they'll hold him accountable, going into no contact with the alcoholic ex he enables, etc etc). In my head I imagine that if he had the audacity to come back one more time, it would have to be as a complete beggar given the things he said to me. And yet, I'm terrified he'll come back with something like "So, I tried things with the ex, they didn't work, but now I thought maybe I would be willing to explore things with you... ." and I want to be prepared to dismiss such sweet-talking and say, "Nope. I'm not taking a 'maybe.' When you want to admit you love me and want to be with me, no ambiguity or ambivalence, then I'll consider it. I'm not coming back for more string-along."

I know the first time I ever cut him off for his waffling games and he came crawling back (this was over two years ago now) I had the strength to say "No" when he tried to win me back with this sort of vague "maybe" language... .and a few days later he DID in fact give me "unconditional surrender" (broke up with the boyfriend, pledged his love for me, etc). He reneged on that later, granted, but this time I would accept nothing less than therapy and being introduced to his family as his boyfriend (which I think would provide a little more stability). I want to be strong enough to not accept any more "maybes." If HE comes back to ME, then he shouldn't feel like he is in any position to negotiate or to do anything other than be willing to meet my (reasonable) demands.

How can I ensure that I won't fall for it again?

[Learning_curve74]

Two things, UmbrellaBoy... .One: when he gets what he wants from you for free, why should he have to beg for it? Two: just because he says he wants to be with you, introduces you to his family as his partner, and says he'll attend therapy, that is no guarantee of anything -- he is still mentally ill and he can't talk that away.

I'm not saying it won't work out but that it's good to temper any optimism with realistic thinking. He has lived his whole life with a disordered manner of thinking and dysfunctional behaviors that cause chaos in his close interpersonal relationships. You've already been under his spell before, and he knows your vulnerabilities. If you jump into a shark tank with a bleeding leg and hope for the best, that is unwarranted optimism.

What makes you think that his saying he is committed to you and committed to therapy will change his ingrained patterns of thought and behavior? Are you unsure that he is mentally ill?

[UmbrellaBoy]

No, you're right. But I feel like getting to the mental place where I would be able to say no to any "maybe" type offers would be a good start. It wouldn't guarantee anything long term, but at least it's a first step towards self-respect and breaking his spell. I'd consider it progress if I could get to the mental space where I'd say no to at least SOME things, and where I wouldn't desperately chase after mere crumbs. I can't say I'm at the place yet where I'd say no in all circumstances, but I think a good first step is getting to a place where I'd say yes only from the position of power (ie, him begging me, rather than leading me on with vague maybes). And I do feel that position of power would at least buy me a window of leverage for a few weeks (especially if I responded to his begging with a tentative probationary "maybe" of my own). A few weeks would be my best bet to try to put safe-guards in place to ensure follow-through on therapy, etc. I do think he'd be kept accountable by his family and certain friends; he has always idealized them and one reason I think he kept our relationship secret from them for the most part is because he knew that, if he told them about it, the social accountability would mean he would be too embarrassed in their eyes to allow himself all the fickle drama (which deep down he must know isn't normal and would make his family think he's crazy if they knew what was going on). Basically I'd only say yes if I could get him to basically stage his own intervention. But, he dumped me this time, and I haven't heard from him for 8 weeks, so this is more about my own inner-strength right now.

[eeyore]

I have felt similarly in the past.  This time I'm able to stand up for myself because a final straw has finally broken the camel's back. All my friends told me he would keep trying to reengage saying he's sorry but never taking any permanent action to make things better.  It was more stringing me along because it worked for him in the past and he thinks it will continue to work for him.  So far my friends have been correct.  They told me to ask him what changes in your decisions have you made?  Each time I ask him that he says his decisions are the same.  Then I say thanks for the apology but I'm need a relationship where WE are one and the one is the most important thing.  Those decisions and actions don't put our relationship as most important. 

They then reminded me he's not going to ever do what I hope for which is to right things for us.  Because rather than work on what's difficult, he'll take the easier path and find a new victim to drink his koolaid of abuse. 

He is always blaming someone else and manipulating the other person to admit fault and to be mentally unstable.  His ex left suffering from severe depression.  I left him yet he makes me out to be the person with the problems and why the relationship didn't work.  He's so charming the way he says he takes responsibility for his stuff when talking to other people, but the problem is it's all talk and no action.  People believe the talk.  I bought into the talk for a long time.  I would in the spirit of compromising tell him his good qualities and where I could have been a better person.  And then that's where I took on all the compromise and got nothing in return.  He'd tell me he's sorry and he wants an us.  All boundaries were crossed. He would then tell other people how I said he was the greatest guy and how much I have learned and become a better person because of him.  So untrue... .I perpetuated his abuse of me.  I perpetuated being a doormat. 

The last time he call he asked what I have learned from him?  Did he make me a better person with my experiences.  I told him 1.  I learned to take better care of myself.  2. I learned I will never be abused.

He then tried to guilt and shame me by saying I should go to a women's domestic violence shelter.  Shame on me for thinking I'm abused those people really know what abuse is and they would laugh at me for calling what I've been through abuse.  Then he hung up on me.    Oh and by the way in saying all this he told me because we aren't back together yet he's on match.  (Again my fault and blaming me because I didn't accept his crumbs it's forced him to be on match. If only I would drink the koolaid.)

Not Once did he answer the question what changes in decisions have you made?  Because he hasn't changed his thinking.  He's just trying to break the boundary that I need to be in a relationship where I'm important, We are important.  He just wants his cake and to eat it too.

What you posted reminds me so much of the same thing I experienced for 6 years.  And how I don't want to fall for it yet again.  Just keep asking yourself what actions are speaking louder than words?

[Accepting]

No, you're right. But I feel like getting to the mental place where I would be able to say no to any "maybe" type offers would be a good start. It wouldn't guarantee anything long term, but at least it's a first step towards self-respect and breaking his spell.

For me, it's accepting that the cycle is it - is the relationship - is what we have. That something more than a push/pull, on-again off-again interaction is something I wish for and is not something he's able to sustain. I believe he wishes, really genuinely wants to have something solid together... .but that he is not in any place to be able to maintain control over himself, let alone what happens between the two of us.

Hence trying to look at the scenario in very realistic terms... .looking at what has happened to date and not expecting something different to miraculously happen in the future (no matter how dreamy the idea of that might be).

[topknot]

Umbrella Boy,

You know the old saying, the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior?  Well, take that to heart.  My exBPD was and will always be the best example of a chameleon I have ever seen.  When one tactic had been shown to fail, he would change colors to rope me in again, and all the while, keeping me at arm's length.  Oh, Topknot is a health fanatic?  Look at ME, I just purchased the Nutribullet, and I'm SO organic!  That didn't work, huh?  Okay, now I'm the Harley guy and I grew a beard to look like the guys I ride with, and I drink Jack Daniels from a fancy flask in my leather jacket.  Not appealing, huh? Okay, now I am the rich, fancy guy who golfs and knows all the greatest places to throw out in conversation.  Impressed yet?  Darn, I'll think of another façade... .but stay back, girl, if I find one you like, I won't let you get close anyway, so eat your heart out.  Once I found out about BPD, I could sometimes  tell who he was triangulating me with by the current costume as well.   It's pathetic, and the only way to find yourself once more and grow strong is to shut them down with no contact. It was the hardest thing I have ever done, but he almost destroyed me.  They are manipulation masters, and it will only leave you feeling hopeless and alone in the long run. The best thing he ever said to me was, "I can't give you what you want." Amen... .and we deserve so much more as loving and giving relationship partners.   Always remember, the only way OUT is THROUGH...

[UmbrellaBoy]

Did you leave it as he needs to get into therapy for the relationship to continue?

No, not exactly.

I hadn't realized he had BPD until after I sent that email. I did psychologize him in it and assure him that my therapist reassured me that I was not the source of the problems and that he was "skating on thin ice" psychologically, but I never mentioned therapy as a condition, and hadn't quite assembled the BPD pieces yet (though once that clicked everything made sense to me). The email basically just chewed him out for seemingly "regressing" to the ex and pointing out how all sorts of things he had said to me about his own psychological maturation were, thus, lies.

He's gone back to the ex, I think. Although, last time we were in No Contact for twelve weeks he strung the ex along during that time but then never had sealed the deal officially by the time he and I got back into contact... .