How to create a boundary for.. ."Everything our fault"

[Mike76]

How to you create a boundary when they blame everything on us... .examples below

My BPD wife attended a church function last night, I never committed to going but she thought I should have wanted to go.   Why my wife was driving to the event got a speeding ticket.   She called me raging because I should have wanted to be with her. It was my fault because I should have driving her. This was not a in the minute frustration, but I think she truly feels it was my fault.   

Getting on the off the incorrect exit on a highway... .

Her phone or computer freezing up... .

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[Seppe]

Those are tough, Mike.

I have come to accept that in the moment she is mad, I am not going to convince her she is wrong.  I try to address recurring themes in our better moments.  The problem with doing that is I hate to disturb the peace of those nice times.  But, I have yet to find a better way to do it.

[daylily]

Hi Mike,

  I can relate to this one.  I think what you are asking is what specific boundary to set with her on this topic.  However, this may be an issue for "internal boundaries" (if there is such a thing) rather than "external boundaries."  The fact that we let this sort of nonsense talk get to us is an indication that there is no internal boundary between us and them - if they feel or believe something, we do too, or at least we care too much that they feel or believe it.  They aren't going to stop finding a way to make everything our fault in their minds, nor are they going to stop expressing that to us.  I think where the boundary needs to be erected is inside us, our internal response to it.  The reason you probably want to JADE when this sort of thing happens is because it's getting to you.  You're taking it on.  I'm working right now on being aware in the moment when my H makes this sort of comment (and he does all the time) that it's his issue not mine, and that he's mentally ill.  If you let it "roll off your back," you won't JADE and it won't affect you.  I know, easier said than done.  But if you focus on your own feelings and needs and not taking on hers, it may become easier over time. 

Instead of JADEing or taking it on: "Wow, that really sucks that you got a ticket.  I'd be mad if I got one too."  If she persists and won't leave you alone, that's when an external boundary may need to take place, with you going somewhere (to the store, etc.) or doing something else.

  Daylily

[Grey Kitty]

I've found that effective boundaries on verbal engagements mostly consist of disengaging from the no-win situation.

She called me raging because I should have wanted to be with her.

In this case, the one I'd enforce would be one about raging (verbal/emotional abuse).

I'd inform her that I'm not going to listen to her yelling at me on the phone (or whatever language is appropriate for you to use). If she continued I would say goodbye and hang up.

That sort of boundary may be all you need--I'd start there, and I will say that one like it made a huge difference for me, and many others here as well.

You may also need to set some boundaries on blaming... .but a better response there is validation. Just like daylily's example.

[daylily]

I've found that effective boundaries on verbal engagements mostly consist of disengaging from the no-win situation.

Why, why, why is this so hard to do?  I don't know what possesses me to believe in the moment that he's ever going to see my side and back down!  What's the definition of stupidity again?  Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?  Duh.   

  Daylily

[Grey Kitty]

Why, why, why is this so hard to do?  I don't know what possesses me to believe in the moment that he's ever going to see my side and back down!

But isn't it ever!

I think the thing which helped me the most was understanding how my choices of response would play out when my partner was dysregulated:

• Engage and try to talk my partner out of her nutso view of reality... .every time I tried it, things continued going downhill... .eventually ending when we were too exhausted from the fight, sometimes having somehow made up, sometimes not.



• Disengage. In my head I called it "Stopping the bleeding" err make that, "Stopping the cutting" as in we weren't together to emotionally lash out at each other doing further damage, which was the other option.

And yes, I tried the first way many many many times. And it was still what I *wanted* to do and my natural reaction. The sooner I noticed what I was doing and remembered that I wouldn't get anything I wanted out of doing it that way (like my wife being reasonable and loving to me), the sooner I changed tacks, and the easier and faster the recovery was.

Hey Mike76, How are things going now?

 GK

[Mike76]

It's been a rough week... .For some reason I am getting 99 percent silent treatment and she has been sleeping in the extra bedroom.  For some reason I do not even care.   My T and the MC spoke for the first time this week.  My T provided little new in-site it should be interesting to know if it changes the MC sessions.

[Grey Kitty]

  Being happy with the peace and quiet is a great response to the silent treatment. Not caring about it is OK too. At least you get some rest.

I hope you are also taking the time to do things that you enjoy and take care of yourself.

  GK

[waverider]

For some reason I am getting 99 percent silent treatment and she has been sleeping in the extra bedroom.  For some reason I do not even care.  

This is a bigger step forward than you think. It means it is not getting to you, so you will not be acting reactively (ie adding fuel to it) you are accepting it is her issue to deal with and hence putting her in a position of self soothing and cutting off the avenue for unhealthy projection.

It may be frustrating, but the"lack of care" isolates you from building resentment.

It may seem like being cold, but it is not, it is the beginning of Acceptance (providing it is not spiteful not caring). It really is not your problem and there is not a lot you can do about her perceptions, except accepting them and giving her space.

To address the thread title, you dont always need a boundary, blame is only an issue if you accept that blame. Boundaries are only needed if blame turns to abuse.

[allibaba]

Its funny that you mention that waverider.

My husband is stressed and acting out today over a clearly enforced 'no name calling/ verbal abuse boundary' this morning.  There was the initial situation.  Some text grumbling mid day and now silent Treatment.  I was sitting reading a book/ son has gone to bed - thinking this is peaceful.  Then I realized that my attitude is fundamentally different than a yr ago when I would have been trying to bring him back to me.  The I want a divorce stmts this morning didnt phase me.  I didn't even get nervous when he messaged me at work to tell me my dog was gone.  Because I now know that is his favorite dyregulated tactic.  Even if he tried to chase her off (he wouldnt) my dog would just wait in the woods until she heard my car.

So Mike its ok not to get sucked into the drama!  I do believe it is the beginning of acceptance.

[Chosen]

Hi Mike76, I can relate to your situation.  Since pwBPDs find it hard to own up to anything, I guess it makes them feel better when the blame is somehow shifted on us. 

While we cannot control what they say, we can control how we receive their false accusations.  One thing I do is to say (you must be calm but assertive), after validating their upset/ hurt/ whatever feelings, ":)o not put words into my mouth/ do not assume what I am thinking."  And don't get into an argument on how you should be feeling.  Own up to your own feelings, take responsibility for them and you don't need to "change" your feelings just because they don't agree.

In your situation, it may be "I understand you think I should want to go to church.  I don't really want to go today."  You know she feels x.  You feel y.  It's different, and you aren't trying to change her opinion, but you're also telling her not to try and change yours.  I have said similar things before and it kind of works.  At least I'm not dragged into an argument about how my feelings/ thoughts are wrong.  They can judge you all they like, but they will not be able to control you by claiming you're thinking wrong.

They won't like it.  But they also can't argue against it.   

[ugghh]

Wow, does this topic hit home for me.

Every time I try to to set this boundary I feel like a ping pong ball.  Usually it is the helpless waif/puppy dog eyes and now she is going to go in the corner and die because I don't love her or it is the escalating circle of hell for her to prove how I constantly violate her boundaries.

Just happened yesterday.  Her "You think the kids should not have any consequences... ."  Me "Please stop telling me what I think... ."  Her "I can't say anything to you without you claiming it is "criticizing"... .Hangs up."  Never mind that she is trying to have this conversation with me while I am trying to unload the car and she is driving somewhere.  Sigh I think I will never learn, that should have been my first boundary.  She gets in car, has time on her hands and wants to talk.  I really have other things to get done, but know that if I try to get off phone it causes consequences later so I try to talk while unloading car.  She starts on a argument baiting topic, I respond calmly, she says she can't hear me twice, I end up yelling so she can hear, she reacts. Cycle Begin

30 minutes passes, I feel bad for her, text to say I am home if she wants to talk.  She replies with paragraph long text stating how painful it is to be with me, how she has none of her needs fulfilled, values validated, nothing she says is right.  Follow up text paragraph about 20 plus years of marriage crying and hiding every feeling and that I can never compromise or be empathetic. Zing!

This morning's text is back to the shaming of her having to give up her morals, values and dreams.  I did not reply because frankly I know whatever I say will just continue the cycle.  I feel defensive, frustrated but mostly just tired of listening to her.  I told my T after last session that after a year and half I am finally starting to figure out who I am again and what I want. One of those those who I am has been to begin setting a boundary in refusing to apologize for her feelings.

All from the simple request to please not tell me what I think.

[eyvindr]

ugghh --

Reading your post, all I can do is relate, and say "yup." Total crazy-making behavior. All you were trying to do was unload your car. All you did was answer the phone -- that was your mistake, apparently.

Made it many times myself, as well as sending the follow-up text, after letting some time go by, feeling like the whole thing was silly, and worrying that my impatience with it only fed into it, which of course it did. 

Only to be met by a barrage of demeaning, blaming, negative, unproductive over-the-top emotional crap. 

Yup. That whole one-way communication thing -- they talk about their feelings until you get it -- and what you get, finally, is that your feelings simply Do. Not. Matter. Real fun lesson.

Hang in there.

[ugghh]

Methinks I have to work on my JADE skills some more.

[eyvindr]

The S.E.T. approach definitely helps. First time I tried I was stunned, actually -- my ex made a huge deal out of how she could tell how hard I was trying, and that she really noticed a change! I kind of felt sorry for her. I'd hoped that it was a sign that she was committed to working on her end of the communication formula... .notsomuch.  :'(

Nothing changed. I wound up resenting that I was doing even more to keep the r-ship afloat. How did she show her appreciation for it? -- by acknowledging that I was trying, appreciating that it made her more comfortable expressing her feelings -- in short, by trying harder, I just made myself a softer cushion for her dsyfunctional emotions to land on.

She could jump up and down on me for longer without hurting her feet sooner.

She could wail, flail and rage, and not have to worry about me fighting back.

Sadly, I'm not wired to be a throw rug or a punching bag. So I left.

JADE does work -- for you. Like S.E.T., my experience was that it only helps insofar as your partner tries. If they don't, then it only works to protect you -- by providing you with a tool to enforce your personal boundaries.

Sadly, with this distorted illness -- for things to ever "work," I fear that the pwBPD would always need to be working harder than us, and I just don't know if they're capable of it on their own. Certainly, with therapy, there's hope -- but they're somewhat known by resisting therapy, dropping our of therapy, denying they need therapy, etc. The futility of the whole thing makes me sick.