Fear of Failure/Success

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

We're all friends, right? So I'm going to put it out there.

And if your friends can't help you - who can?

Brief Synopsis of DreamGirl's movie plot.

Very low functioning NPD-traited father. Wasn't the greatest dad - you know the drill. Put us down a lot. Left us vulnerable to the evil in the world. Including a family friend who shifted my world.

Enough said.

My brother's best coping skill was drugs and alcohol. My refuge was in boyfriends who knew how to love themselves far better then the likes of me. Pregnant by the time I was 17. By pure luck I graduated highschool - with Honors (this tidbit comes in later, I promise). His father MIA before my son was even born. Married the first time at 20. Second son that same year. Divorced a year later.

Repeated patterns in relationships. Codependency and not really treating myself very well, or allowing/expecting others to do the same.

You know the drill - got into therapy, learned better skills, and voila... .life is better.  Met my current husband - and we work really hard at our marriage.

So I feel like I've learned better relationship skills. That I deserve to be treated better and blahzee blah. I also am very cognizant (and forgiving) that I've struggled in my momhood and that there is a common thread thru all of it... .that I did the best I could. My kids are wonderful kids. Really wonderful. College bound. One of my father's gifts to me was a determination that I would be free fom his legacy and the one that preceeded him.  Had he not been my father, my life would be different. I love my kids just as they are. They are so neat and good hearted.

So here's the thing.

My kids are getting older. I've picked up on another pattern that I'm having such a hard time admitting/facing.

I think I'm terrified of success. Of failure.

It's been triggered by two instances. 1.) I have two dear friends who authored a book that was released last week. I helped in editing several chapters and am quoted several times (anonymously) throughout. They are so, so grateful and gifted me a copy. 2.) My oldest son is graduating highschool. In a conversation about his buddy who is struggling, to which we decided was partly due to his own father's very large shadow, I teased him how lucky that my shadow is so small. He joked back that he surpassed me his junior year by not getting anyone pregnant. Touche, little buddy.

It's had me reeling.

It's this pattern I have. When I let the clouds of denial and excuses lift away, I think I almost sabotage myself. I got pregnant and never went to college - even though I actually wrote my best friend's college essay for her because it came that easy to me. She graduated, is in a job she loves and I am in a job that is below a level of what I could be doing. I'm being asked to edit a book that I could have written myself. (Not to take away from my beautiful friends who wrote a wonderful book!) I'm still young and college is something I could take on... .kids would no longer be an excuse... .and I am simply terrified.  

This fear of failure?

Success?

I am my father's daughter. He did the exact same thing in his life. Well, I've actually stepped up a rung or two - I've held a job for all of my adult life and provided for my children. He did neither of those things.

But... .

My son is not proud of who I am. He loves and respects me. But strives for so much more then the life I've lead (which isn't such a terrible thing). My father was the smartest man I've ever known - but his narcississm limited him to be "King of the Derilects" (as I call them) that he surrounded himself by (strip club owners, drug dealers, dishonest car dealers, etc). They worshipped him - literally - even though he felt/knew/projected that he was intellectually "better" then them. That was the qualifying trait to be his friend, to be inferior to him.  

Am I doing the exact same thing?

I literally almost go into a panic when I think of starting a new career in something I really like/enjoy but that would challenge me.

I quit projects that don't come so easily to me.

I choose friends who I can "counsel" and feed me validating praise

I don't ask for a raise at my current job - I instead do a sub-par job, so I know that what they pay for is what they'll get

I'm a good writer. At least I've been told that I am. I don't nurture that. I don't do anything except post on an anonymous forum.

Anyone experience this?

It's a really disheartening epiphany.

[DreamGirl]

We're all friends, right? So I'm going to put it out there.

And if your friends can't help you - who can?

Brief Synopsis of DreamGirl's movie plot.

Very low functioning NPD-traited father. Wasn't the greatest dad - you know the drill. Put us down a lot. Left us vulnerable to the evil in the world. Including a family friend who shifted my world.

Enough said.

My brother's best coping skill was drugs and alcohol. My refuge was in boyfriends who knew how to love themselves far better then the likes of me. Pregnant by the time I was 17. By pure luck I graduated highschool - with Honors (this tidbit comes in later, I promise). His father MIA before my son was even born. Married the first time at 20. Second son that same year. Divorced a year later.

Repeated patterns in relationships. Codependency and not really treating myself very well, or allowing/expecting others to do the same.

You know the drill - got into therapy, learned better skills, and voila... .life is better.  Met my current husband - and we work really hard at our marriage.

So I feel like I've learned better relationship skills. That I deserve to be treated better and blahzee blah. I also am very cognizant (and forgiving) that I've struggled in my momhood and that there is a common thread thru all of it... .that I did the best I could. My kids are wonderful kids. Really wonderful. College bound. One of my father's gifts to me was a determination that I would be free fom his legacy and the one that preceeded him.  Had he not been my father, my life would be different. I love my kids just as they are. They are so neat and good hearted.

So here's the thing.

My kids are getting older. I've picked up on another pattern that I'm having such a hard time admitting/facing.

I think I'm terrified of success. Of failure.

It's been triggered by two instances. 1.) I have two dear friends who authored a book that was released last week. I helped in editing several chapters and am quoted several times (anonymously) throughout. They are so, so grateful and gifted me a copy. 2.) My oldest son is graduating highschool. In a conversation about his buddy who is struggling, to which we decided was partly due to his own father's very large shadow, I teased him how lucky that my shadow is so small. He joked back that he surpassed me his junior year by not getting anyone pregnant. Touche, little buddy.

It's had me reeling.

It's this pattern I have. When I let the clouds of denial and excuses lift away, I think I almost sabotage myself. I got pregnant and never went to college - even though I actually wrote my best friend's college essay for her because it came that easy to me. She graduated, is in a job she loves and I am in a job that is below a level of what I could be doing. I'm being asked to edit a book that I could have written myself. (Not to take away from my beautiful friends who wrote a wonderful book!) I'm still young and college is something I could take on... .kids would no longer be an excuse... .and I am simply terrified.  

This fear of failure?

Success?

I am my father's daughter. He did the exact same thing in his life. Well, I've actually stepped up a rung or two - I've held a job for all of my adult life and provided for my children. He did neither of those things.

But... .

My son is not proud of who I am. He loves and respects me. But strives for so much more then the life I've lead (which isn't such a terrible thing). My father was the smartest man I've ever known - but his narcississm limited him to be "King of the Derilects" (as I call them) that he surrounded himself by (strip club owners, drug dealers, dishonest car dealers, etc). They worshipped him - literally - even though he felt/knew/projected that he was intellectually "better" then them. That was the qualifying trait to be his friend, to be inferior to him.  

Am I doing the exact same thing?

I literally almost go into a panic when I think of starting a new career in something I really like/enjoy but that would challenge me.

I quit projects that don't come so easily to me.

I choose friends who I can "counsel" and feed me validating praise

I don't ask for a raise at my current job - I instead do a sub-par job, so I know that what they pay for is what they'll get

I'm a good writer. At least I've been told that I am. I don't nurture that. I don't do anything except post on an anonymous forum.

Anyone experience this?

It's a really disheartening epiphany.

[Rose Tiger]

Good gravy Dreamgirl.  Who cares what anyone thinks?  I know, I know, we all do.  But switch this up a bit.  You overcame a crappy upbringing.  You raised up wonderful kids.  You are a survivor.  It's good to recognize that you could be doing so much more, that you have potential to keep moving higher.  You are looking at your situation and saying HEY, wait a minute here.  You didn't feel worthy of more so you settled in a lower level job but dang, you don't have to stay there.  You are a good writer, probably could make some money in that sort of thing.  This is where google is your friend, what opportunities are out there.  Tell that little voice that holds you back to zip it.  Love yourself through failures and see them for what they are, learning experiences.

I think anyone that makes it through the muck that a lot of us have faced are freaking heroes.  Especially if we aren't sitting in the back of a closet slugging gin.  Which is tempting at times.  Lol  But no, we keep going, getting healthier and better.

And teens are something else.  Do not look for appraisal value there.  They are still green, let them get into the job market and start a family, then they start realizing value.

[A Dad]

My son is not proud of who I am. He loves and respects me. But strives for so much more then the life I've lead (which isn't such a terrible thing).

Has his words or actions indicated that he is not proud of you? or are you projecting this on him?

I now believe that my dad stayed with my mother (who I thought was just depressed, but now I think it may have been more) for the sake of me and my brother, our family. I believe he might have done more, achieved more if he had left.

I am on my way to separating from my wife. When I told my father of this possibility, without hesitation he said that yes, if it looks like things are not going to get better, it is better to separate then to live your whole life like that.

I am choosing a different path than he did, and trying to do more, achieve more than he did. And I have an enormous amount of love and respect for the sacrifices he made, and I am definitely very proud of him for the man he was/is - to his wife, to his children, to his friends and other people who came in contact with him. If your son does not feel that way right now, I assure you he will one day

[tryingtogetit]

Dreamgirl, mine is a totally different movie yet I recognise every scene of yours!

Fear of failure and fear of success really do seem to go hand in hand, but I only started to realize this recently. And it's exactly that which is holding me back as well.

How to get over it, how to start making steps in our directions?

Confirmation from others is not really useful, i mean it's clear you are a great writer but you prob know this yourself. In fact, I've started resenting myself for using my talents to bring to life other people's dreams. Because I know I am able to breathe life into my own.

Except I just don't... .

Martha Beck's books are very encouraging and filled with examples and understanding for our self-sabotaging ways, fun too. One thing she recommends is not saying to yourself to write a book. Because you'll beat yourself up if you don't. And you won't because 'a book' is too big and too vague.

Instead you could break it up in 'turtle steps' as she calls it.

Achievable goals: make a contract with yourself that every day you'll spend some time on your own project. Define 'some time' as a number that you'll actually be able to manage even on the worse day. Don't matter if it's an hour or 5 mins. Just set yourself a duration that feels right and achievable.

In my case I set myself a goal of building a guitar by preparing glueing one piece every day. It worked! I actually finished it in about 2 months. Before (and after) I kept promising myself: after I have done the dishes, cut the lawn, solve world poverty, then I'll make a guitar in a week... .Guess what, never even got to the poverty part.

Reward yourself for doing so. After your 5 mins you are allowed to read in that book you want to finish.

Baby steps, our self-sabotaging ways are like frightened little children. And that's fine. They just need to be taken by the hand and reassured until they feel safe. After that, they can learn to walk.

After that soar the sky!

[DreamGirl]

I love you guys.

I really do.

I posted this yesterday and as it sat stagnant overnight... .I thought "oh great, me and my first world problems."

Tell that little voice that holds you back to zip it.  Love yourself through failures and see them for what they are, learning experiences.

RoseTiger, you are speaking my language.

I do think that sometimes, even in my non-gin-slugging ways, I can still be my own worst enemy. That inner critic that echoes my father, that promises me that failure is inevitable.

Maybe that's the secret. That failure is inevitable. But what does failure look like? Is trying and failing, failing? (I'm starting to sound like a self-help book here) But is it really?

I do just have this itch. To do more. A blog maybe. A short story. A book(!). To actually get credit for it. I had a pretty awful teacher in the 11th grade who fizzled my desire to write, booted me out of the Honors program and literally said I wasn't good enough. He didn't know my inner battle at the time, didn't really care to know, and I've always promised to dedicate my first book to him. Inscribed to say "For Mr. F who said I didn't have the fire".

I wish I could have taken his words and proved him wrong, like I know now that he was wrong... .instead I believed him. Why do we do that? Why did the entire span of my school life in Honors English not speak to me of what I was capable of? Why did I let one person define me as not good enough? Maybe it's just as Julia Roberts tells us in Pretty Woman, "the bad stuff is easier to believe".

I trolled around at Best Buy the other day gazing at laptops. A laptop that could be mine. No sharing with the kids, the stepkids, the husband, or the dogs... .

A little faith in myself. A little courage that it's OK that failure just might be inevitable. Why was it that Thomas Edison, my fellow/hero thought-to-be ADD sufferer, did not care if he were to fail? Maybe it was because his mama believed in him.

Maybe my dad believed in me too. Just didn't know how to show it. Why is that so important to me?     

Has his words or actions indicated that he is not proud of you? or are you projecting this on him?

Good point.

Maybe?

I really want him to be proud of me. I've also done plenty not to be proud of. I had him 17 and had no business trying to take care of a child. Thank goodness for my own mama who helped me.

So I also think my own Mama was a lot like yours, adad. She worked hard her whole life. Took care of all of us. She just came from a different time. Wives didn't leave their husbands. She also really loved him. I think we all did. 

Achievable goals: make a contract with yourself that every day you'll spend some time on your own project. Define 'some time' as a number that you'll actually be able to manage even on the worse day. Don't matter if it's an hour or 5 mins. Just set yourself a duration that feels right and achievable.

In my case I set myself a goal of building a guitar by preparing glueing one piece every day. It worked! I actually finished it in about 2 months. Before (and after) I kept promising myself: after I have done the dishes, cut the lawn, solve world poverty, then I'll make a guitar in a week... .Guess what, never even got to the poverty part.

Reward yourself for doing so. After your 5 mins you are allowed to read in that book you want to finish.

Baby steps, our self-sabotaging ways are like frightened little children. And that's fine. They just need to be taken by the hand and reassured until they feel safe. After that, they can learn to walk.

After that soar the sky!

 

Oh my gosh, I love this.

Not to get into the hoo-rah of my therapy journey... .but I am so much like a child in a lot of ways. Having patience for myself has proven to be a difficult task.

Thank you for believing in me, guys.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[Grey Kitty]

Thanks for starting this topic, and especially for admitting to this:

oh great, me and my first world problems.

I've had similar thoughts--my problems aren't big enough / bad enough to be worth posting about.

I do think that sometimes, even in my non-gin-slugging ways, I can still be my own worst enemy. That inner critic that echoes my father, that promises me that failure is inevitable.

Maybe that's the secret. That failure is inevitable. But what does failure look like? Is trying and failing, failing? (I'm starting to sound like a self-help book here) But is it really?

I think that there is a wonderful secret in there. My version is that the freedom to fail is a beautiful thing. Because if you have to succeed, you are likely to make sure you aim low for something you are 100% certain you will hit. If you know you can fail, you are free to try something incredible, fail at it, learn a whole lot from the failure, and then go on to do something great the next time. (Or perhaps the 8th time)

I do just have this itch. To do more. A blog maybe. A short story. A book(!). To actually get credit for it.

Scratch that itch!

[heartandwhole]

DreamGirl,

I think I am starring in your movie, too!  I resonate with a lot of what you said.

I read somewhere that Thomas Edison failed about 1,000 times before his lightbulb worked.  He said, "I didn't fail 1,000 times, the lightbulb was an invention with 1,000 steps."  Love that!

My point is that doing what you love to do, because you can't *not* do it, takes a lot of the success/failure conflict out of the picture.  If you feel an urge, just follow it, and who cares if it leads to anything?

And if you do care, then it might be interesting to look at whether your self regard is tied to accomplishment, recognition, etc., and what that means for you.  Not saying there is a thing wrong with that, it just puts some power into exterior circumstances that may or may not be in your control.

Write * Share * Love !      (cue fabulous Indian music/chants)

heart

[Learning_curve74]

My point is that doing what you love to do, because you can't *not* do it, takes a lot of the success/failure conflict out of the picture.  If you feel an urge, just follow it, and who cares if it leads to anything?

And if you do care, then it might be interesting to look at whether your self regard is tied to accomplishment, recognition, etc., and what that means for you.  Not saying there is a thing wrong with that, it just puts some power into exterior circumstances that may or may not be in your control.

This is a GREAT reminder! 

Fear of success and fear of failure seem to be linked in my mind. Nobody wants to fail, but if we succeed then maybe that is more pressure to succeed again or not fail next time?

I don't know about anybody else here, but I think some of my own fears are due to perfectionism. I want to do something right, and if I don't get it perfect, I feel like I let myself and everybody else down.

I've read and heard this many times as far as "success" goes, and it is to devote ourselves to the process and the journey. If your goal is to spend 5 minutes a day writing, then as long as you get in the 5 minutes, you haven't failed. Like what tryingtogetit said above, take the little steps and you'll be surprised how far you get eventually.

I think it is very easy to get caught up in defining ourselves by what we achieve. I don't think there is anything wrong with being proud of having achieved some particular goal, but I also do not feel there is anything to be gained by beating ourselves up when we do not reach a certain goal. How do we know if can or cannot do something until we try? If in the end we can't achieve a particular goal, then now we simply know that at this particular time we can't. Maybe in the future we will reach that goal after getting further along in our journey or maybe it just won't be important to us any more, who knows? The future is uncharted territory.

[musicfan42]

I love you guys.

I really do.

I posted this yesterday and as it sat stagnant overnight... .I thought "oh great, me and my first world problems."

I've had that thought too... "me and my first world problems". But for me, it's not about the actual problem itself but rather the emotional pain I feel at times. I've even had suicidal ideation because I wanted that emotional pain to stop. The emotional pain feels like a gnawing sensation deep inside me/feeling of emptiness... despair/sadness. I used to think that I was self-indulgent whereas now I think "no-life is hard and I need all the coping mechanisms possible to navigate my way through it".  

I do think that sometimes, even in my non-gin-slugging ways, I can still be my own worst enemy. That inner critic that echoes my father, that promises me that failure is inevitable.

Yeah-I have an inner critic that echoes my father's voice too. I've been told that I'm my own worst enemy before... .

I see the inner critic now as my own feelings of anger. It took me time to realize that I have a huge amount of anger and hatred towards myself... .

Maybe that's the secret. That failure is inevitable. But what does failure look like? Is trying and failing, failing? (I'm starting to sound like a self-help book here) But is it really?

Failue isn't inevitable. Brene Brown actually has a nice attitude on this-she has "the man in the arena" quote about how it's about "daring greatly" in life... about taking risks.

I think the only failure is NOT trying... as long as you're trying, then you'll get there. It might take some time but ultimately, it's worth it. As long as you put an effort into things, then that's all that counts.

I do just have this itch. To do more. A blog maybe. A short story. A book(!). To actually get credit for it. I had a pretty awful teacher in the 11th grade who fizzled my desire to write, booted me out of the Honors program and literally said I wasn't good enough. He didn't know my inner battle at the time, didn't really care to know, and I've always promised to dedicate my first book to him. Inscribed to say "For Mr. F who said I didn't have the fire".

I wish I could have taken his words and proved him wrong, like I know now that he was wrong... .instead I believed him. Why do we do that? Why did the entire span of my school life in Honors English not speak to me of what I was capable of? Why did I let one person define me as not good enough? Maybe it's just as Julia Roberts tells us in Pretty Woman, "the bad stuff is easier to believe".

This annoys me about teachers! I was usually "the teacher's pet" admittedly but that was only because I know that teachers can be brutal once they don't like a student... they just tear into them and give them a really hard time! I was a bit sycophantic towards teachers... always trying to get into their good books because I knew that they were the ones with the power. I didn't care as much about what my peers thought because they didn't have that power. Sure-I wanted my peers to like me too but it was absolutely critical to me that the teacher liked me.

Even now, I want all authority figures to like me. I felt upset the last time I was at the doctor's because I thought that he didn't really like me. It's pretty pathetic really but he's an authority figure (and quite good looking too ) so I wanted his approval.

Even at work a few years ago, I really wanted my boss to like me. He got the wrong idea   so it took me a while to get the boundaries right in that particular situation... I wanted his approval too...  If someone is on the same level as me, then I don't care what they think.

I think this is an issue I need to work on... but how?  :)on't know where to start so if anyone has any ideas, do let me know...

I trolled around at Best Buy the other day gazing at laptops. A laptop that could be mine. No sharing with the kids, the stepkids, the husband, or the dogs... .

A little faith in myself. A little courage that it's OK that failure just might be inevitable. Why was it that Thomas Edison, my fellow/hero thought-to-be ADD sufferer, did not care if he were to fail? Maybe it was because his mama believed in him.

Maybe my dad believed in me too. Just didn't know how to show it. Why is that so important to me?    

I'm just guessing but it's probably important to you because you want your father's approval. I hungered for my father's approval for years. I think that I used the teachers' approval etc as substitutes for that paternal approval really.

I think it's also good to realize that there is no good time to do anything-that you just have to take the plunge and do it. Now is the best time to do anything...

I've read about people like Thomas Edison before and I think that they just wanted to achieve their goal so much that they would do anything to get it... that they had that indomitable hunger inside them... passion. I wouldn't even call it ambition but rather determination/defiance/a good pinch of stubbornness... It's a good thing that you have the desire to write... that you have that passion. I think that's really half the battle.

If you want to buy that laptop, then go for it.

[Cumulus]

I really like the image of you and your son walking on the stage to receive your degrees together, four years from now. Keep pushing on. 

[P.F.Change]

I think I'm terrified of success. Or failure.

You are totally not alone there. Very common fears. Does not surprise me one bit coming from the child of a parent with NPD... .you were meant to reflect perfectly on him at all times, right? Were your successes meant to be his to own and glory in? Did falling short of his expectations in any way cause the kind of rage that could make you believe you did not deserve to continue to exist? These things were true for me growing up with a BPDm, and I learned her black-and-white perfectionistic thinking as a result. Less-than-perfect was not only not good enough, it was deplorable. I learned that my value as a human being was performance-based. I did not know that it is ok to make a mistake, and that if I do it is normal and it is not going to kill me (literally!). I am a worthwhile person. That took a lot of therapy to figure out.

Taking another train of thought, I know a lot of children of NPD parents who are terrified of becoming like that parent, and therefore find it difficult to take any pride at all in their work. They might not ask for a raise, for example, for fear of being seen as having a sense of entitlement. They don't ask for what they deserve because they think having normal needs is the same as being arrogant. Does any of that sound familiar to you?

It's a really disheartening epiphany.

That's one way to look at it. Another might be, "I'm human. Humans ain't perfect. I'm glad I have the self-awareness to see this issue because that gives me an opportunity to learn and grow."

I'm still young and college is something I could take on... .kids would no longer be an excuse... .and I am simply terrified. 

College is definitely something you can do now if you want to. And, yes, it is scary to try something new. A lot of people go back to school once their kids are grown, you would not be alone. Many people try taking just one or two courses at a time so that they can still handle other responsibilities. Besides, I bet you've got lots of skills by now that would put you at a serious advantage compared to the children coming fresh out of high school. You know you are smart enough and talented enough. You don't have to be perfect enough. You deserve to give yourself opportunities to achieve your goals.

My son is not proud of who I am. He loves and respects me. But strives for so much more then the life I've lead (which isn't such a terrible thing).

I'm pretty sure every kid thinks he's better than his parents and is determined not to ever be as lame as they are. Give him another 18 years of life experience and he will probably see things a bit differently.

Others touched on the possibility of projection here. I had a similar thought--wondering if you are proud of yourself. It sounds like there is a lot you could feel proud of. But also I was thinking... .your sense of worth doesn't have to be rooted in what other people think about you. It's great when others give us validation and all that, but you can love you regardless of whether others approve.

I literally almost go into a panic when I think of starting a new career in something I really like/enjoy but that would challenge me.

Career change involves some risk, and that can be scary. It sounds like there is more to it than that, though. Can you name the specific fears?

If you decide that your time on this earth is worth spending doing things you enjoy, you will find a way to overcome the challenges. In fact you will see them as opportunities to grow that will help you achieve your goals.

If it were your child coming to you with this feelings, what would you say?

I quit projects that don't come so easily to me.

Projects you want to do, or projects others want you to do? Do you have to do them perfectly all on your own, or are you allowed to ask for help or take a class?

I choose friends who I can "counsel" and feed me validating praise

Interesting... .reminds me of some of my codependent traits. Are there any changes you are wanting to make in this area?

I don't ask for a raise at my current job - I instead do a sub-par job, so I know that what they pay for is what they'll get

Do you feel you deserve a raise? Are you afraid of being assertive?

I'm a good writer. At least I've been told that I am. I don't nurture that. I don't do anything except post on an anonymous forum.

Do you like writing? Do you want to nurture your writing skills? If you do, there are all kinds of ways you can practice. Write a blog, or take a class, or join a club. The key, as someone else said, is to do a little every day. Ultimately, writing is for communicating... .it essentially requires an audience. Of course, you can write just for yourself, and many people do. But to grow as a writer, we must be brave enough to allow someone else to read what we create, and then we must allow constructive criticism. It can be scary... .but it's something that helps us improve.

I think I will leave you with an example from my own life. I am a musician. I have been given a fair share of natural talent, as well as very good instruction from excellent teachers along the way. I can honestly say I am good at what I do and always have been. When I was younger, I never wanted to audition for anything. I was terrified of putting myself out there, of making mistakes or being criticized (remember that perfectionism I mentioned earlier?). If I was asked to perform solo, I would usually accept, but almost never did I try out for a solo that required an audition. And I hated recitals. When I got to college, I chose not to study music because it would require a great deal of solo work just to get in, and then jury performances (this is where you get on a stage and perform for a panel of professors who critique you). Needless to say, even though I love music, that seemed too high a price to pay for me. I guess you could say I was never too ambitious or eager to perform, and I limited my opportunities because I felt not good enough.

Now that I am a fair bit older and have been through enough T to find a stable sense of myself, I am trying to change that attitude. There is a rather prestigious ensemble that I decided to audition for a number of years back. I worked hard to prepare, and did very well, was asked to perform a few solos that year and felt good about the praise I received from my peers. I took a break to have a baby, and by the time I was ready to return, leadership had changed and I was forced to re-audition. Ugh. But did it anyway, again did quite well. But our new conductor auditions most solos in front of the entire ensemble (40 people).  Because I have decided it really is something I want to do, and I am worth it, I have decided to audition every time the opportunity comes around even if it is not a piece I particularly like. If nothing else, this gives me audition experience that I previously denied myself. Sometimes I get them, sometimes one of my colleagues does, but I feel good no matter what, even if I make a huge mistake in front of everyone, because I am taking steps to achieve my goal. I feel so much more confident since I decided just to start trying. I am even considering taking lessons again, which I used to hate because of the criticism, because no matter how good you are at something, there is always room to improve.

I think in your life you will be as happy as you want to be. If there is something you really want to do, that you really feel joy about, you owe it to yourself to try.


Wishing you peace,

PF

[HarmKrakow]

Again, a topic where I feel so similar to the stories written here   it's almost scary.

[Suzn]

Maybe that's the secret. That failure is inevitable. But what does failure look like? Is trying and failing, failing? (I'm starting to sound like a self-help book here) But is it really?

Failure is what happens right before you learn something new. Hope that you have failures!

I really want him to be proud of me. I've also done plenty not to be proud of. I had him 17 and had no business trying to take care of a child.

Dreamgirl, what about you, what about you being proud of you? From what I've heard you write about your son you did a great job raising him and look at it this way, since it is what it is, you are still quite young after raising your children. Pick something you find challenging and scary as heck and face your fear! And please bury that shame of becoming pregnant at 17, you were just a kid yourself, you have great kids and a bright future ahead. Get out there and find your passion. 

[qcarolr]

I literally almost go into a panic when I think of starting a new career in something I really like/enjoy but that would challenge me.

I quit projects that don't come so easily to me.

I choose friends who I can "counsel" and feed me validating praise

I don't ask for a raise at my current job - I instead do a sub-par job, so I know that what they pay for is what they'll get

I'm a good writer. At least I've been told that I am. I don't nurture that. I don't do anything except post on an anonymous forum.

Anyone experience this?

Mine is a parallel universe. Each line above.

My resistance is so strong - even years and years of therapy and I do not believe in my progress, even though others have praise for how well I am doing. That is not my internal experience. Is it strange that my best friends are here at an annoymous forum -- so very much more safe than the mom next door or the T in her office.

I still work at it though. I studied to be a CPA, really wanted to be a research sociologist. Is 58 too late to move in a new direction? Not time to go back to school, so maybe an assitant?

Dreamgirl -- be kind to yourself in taking making some 'tiny little changes' TLC. You may be surprised how fast they can add up to something more.

qcr

[PhoenixRising15]

DreamGirl,

The shadow in you that I also see in myself is that I don't recognize my own sucesses.  I struggle to own them.

I honor you for working on yourself, raising your children, and thinking bigger thoughts.

It's often hard for me to see any steps forward as exactly that.

The gold in you that I also see in myself is your introspective capacity and desire to work on yourself.

I started it more than four years ago, and it sounds like you worked longer than that.

I've asked myself the same question, am I afraid of failure and success?  or? both?

I have big dreams for myself.  And then I look around and say, how can I?  how DARE I dream that I can change the world around me.

The wisdom I found from some person, was, how dare I NOT be great?

I struggle with that every day.  As the little voice in the back of my head says, you can't do it.  You won't do it.  You don't deserve it.

The answer is we are doing it.  One step at a time.  One day at a time.  One hour at a time. One minute.  One second.

I wish I could be a better support for you.  Some of your responses have absolutely drawn me to tears.

All I can tell you is I believe in you, and I'm right there with you, walking that path.

[livednlearned]

DreamGirl,

Are you afraid of competing with your dad? If you succeed, maybe he will devalue you, or get mad at you? Or worse -- Maybe he won't even acknowledge your success. Not just the real dad (not sure if he is still alive?) but the dad that talks inside your head.

Imagine telling him you're going back to school to get your undergraduate degree. How does he react? What does he say?

[eeyore]

I love this thread.  DreamGirl, there were so many parts of your post that hits close to home with many of us.  I suspect you already know the answers to your questions and you are already half way down the road.  The problem is you need cheering to get you to to each finish line.  It reminds me of the 5K's I've done.  (I'm not a runner at all so a 5K is a feat for me).  Anyway all along the race route they have people to cheer you on.  And it really does help because you have already made the decision to get in the race, you have crossed the start, so now it's a question of pace and endurance.  I have been inspired by many of your posts through the years and yes you do have a gift for words.  (Not me at all)  So at this point I think you have your list of wants.  Now it's a question of prioritizing and pacing yourself for accomplishing what's in your heart.   

[Blazing Star]

Great thread DreamGirl, I wonder if the success/failure fear is pretty common, and some can push through it and others feel paralysed by it?

Brene Brown has a really nice talk on parenting, where she reframes success as just showing up, and as I am sure you know, she is all about you can only reach courage by walking through and allowing vulnerability. Maybe you could have a daily dose of Brene to help you explore this?

Also I second about starting small. Pick a few things that scare you, that challenge you only a little bit, and try these. Perhaps an online writing course? Or start an anonymous blog? Spend a few days daydreaming about what you would do if you couldn't fail, or if no one was watching.

I read something the other day that struck a cord with me, and I wrote it on the blackboard in the kitchen, I still get the tingles when I read it:

"Amazing things happen when you decide to be great".

For me that decision is a little scary, stepping into my greatness, it scares me, but also thrills me. I am going to sit with it for a while and let it sink in.

Looking forward to hearing how you explore this.

Love Blazing Star

[livednlearned]

"Amazing things happen when you decide to be great".

LOVE that!

[DreamGirl]

A thousand thanks to all of you.

Sorry it's taken so long to reply - I tend to read from my phone on the weekends (the 5 kids who tend to hog the computer at home) making it difficult to respond. Unless you're not too crazy about line breaks and punctuation.

You are so inspirational and it helps so much to know that you have faith in me. That you see potential. Even if it's just pixels on a screen, the words mean a lot... .that my struggles resonate with you too. It's so ironic when Blazing Star and musicfan42 mention Brene Brown - it's my vulnerability to even post this fear that has made me feel so much better about it.  

And your words of encouragement!

I do think that I am a perfectionist in sheeps clothing. My desk is really messy. My to-do list is really long. My filing is piled up. What's done though? It's done right.

I do think I'm so afraid of some kind of "wrongness" that I create these excuses "just in case". (Self Sabotage?)

As far as my father goes, livednlearned, I really don't know what he would say. I do think he might be proud but my memory is so riddled with his views on my being "better". My dad was very focused on intelligence - he, himself, was a very smart man. He saw himself as superior, but it was such hogwash. I admire someone who works hard without being "gifted". My brother and I tipped the scales when it came to testing and my Dad let people know it. He did tend to minimize accomplishment though, I won a writing contest once (got to meet the mayor!) and I remember him commenting on my work being remedial. I hated when he read my stuff.  

The anniversary of his death was yesterday - two years. I miss him. I'm not angry anymore about this stuff.  

The truth is that I would like him to be proud of me. The truth is that it may be a demon I can never tame. I've tried to reframe those thoughts in that he just struggled in that... .that his being proud is something I can't really see.

I can't blame him for this. Jeanette Wells wrote an amazing memoir - and her Dad was just like mine.

"Amazing things happen when you decide to be great".

This.

Gave me goosebumps.  

[justnothing]

I wish I could have taken his words and proved him wrong, like I know now that he was wrong... .instead I believed him. Why do we do that? Why did the entire span of my school life in Honors English not speak to me of what I was capable of? Why did I let one person define me as not good enough? Maybe it's just as Julia Roberts tells us in Pretty Woman, "the bad stuff is easier to believe".

Because… that's the way shame works. From what I've read (I think it was Eric Ericson or one of those that said it first), shame is one of the most important elements in personality development. Unlike guilt that says "I did something bad", it says "I AM bad"… that's why it's so important in personality development… it's how we define ourselves to ourselves in accordance to how others treated us in the past… it's our psyches' way of avoiding being treated that way in the future.

I know all too well what you mean about the fear of success/failure. I studied every year for the past 10 years without a single year's break… the end result being two half finished degrees (in totally different subjects) and a few certificates I don't have the courage to do anything with. When I lift through the potential things I might "someday" be able to study at whatever college I also always just end up depressed (which… is at least better than getting worked up and enthusiastic about something and then eventually quitting it). I've spent the past several months trying to read different stuff that might explain it (one book I'd recommend is "The Psychology of Shame" by gershen kaufman… but it doesn't really cover everything and it's not exactly a self help book… still a good read though and it offers at least some partial insights into this kind of problem).  

I had an experience the other day that helped enlighten me a bit about the depth and nature of my problem though… I forced myself to go buy myself some new sweaters for winter… this may sound like a tiny, insignificant little thing… but it's something I only ever do once every few years or so because most of the time I'm content with dressing and looking like a troll. There was one voice in my head (and yeah, I get those) that was adamantly insistent I buy a multitude of NICE sweaters in all different colors… and at the same time (before getting to the store, after leaving and especially AT the store) there was another voice that was crying and begging me to not buy any new clothes… she said she was terrified of looking good and normal and having to face the normal people of the world as a "peer" because she/I/we feel/felt that we'll never be able to make it… When you're some crazy, pathetic little mouse then people usually don't even look at you… or if they do it's with pity or at the very least with little interest… because you're not a threat. As soon as you join the big girls' league (whether it's via clothes or via success or self expression of any kind) – you become a threat. Something that needs to be shown her place and destroyed… at least metaphorically.

If there is an answer (not saying I've found one but am working on it and have been for the past several months on this particular issue) I think part of the answer is A) chasing all Others out of your head… you don't owe any figure from the past "proof" of your worthiness – you need to know (when standing all alone, without anyone around there to validate you) that you are a worthy, worthwhile, lovable human being by your own right and other people's opinions (positive and negative) are just some transient factor that exists outside the self and shouldn't effect the truly healthy inner self. And B) becoming the person on the inside that somehow exists all by herself in there (in your head) and not in relation to anybody else and somehow manages to be happy and strong all by herself in there and for her to have all the tools she needs (not provided to her by others but by you) to grow and thrive to her full potential as an inner being living inside your head…. Once that happens… real life "practical" success will come along as a byproduct of the thriving that goes on inside. And those successes will also be the result of the things you enjoy because you enjoy them… not because you want to say "ah hah!" to any teachers or whoever from the past.  

[qcarolr]

 

... .there was another voice that was crying and begging me to not buy any new clothes… she said she was terrified of looking good and normal and having to face the normal people of the world as a "peer" because she/I/we feel/felt that we'll never be able to make it… When you're some crazy, pathetic little mouse then people usually don't even look at you… or if they do it's with pity or at the very least with little interest… because you're not a threat. As soon as you join the big girls' league (whether it's via clothes or via success or self expression of any kind) – you become a threat. Something that needs to be shown her place and destroyed… at least metaphorically.

Ohhh, this is like sharing my own secrets to the world. This morning I was remembering when I was 18 and visiting the college before starting my freshman year. I was staying overnight in a dorm, my parents staying in a motel. Maybe I missed out on the structure of why I was doing this. I spent the whole time alone in my room, terrified. All I needed to do was walk out into the common areas and be vulnerable to talking to someone!  Very scary to dress nice or look successful. I still struggle with this when in public places.

If there is an answer (not saying I've found one but am working on it and have been for the past several months on this particular issue) I think part of the answer is A) chasing all Others out of your head… you don't owe any figure from the past "proof" of your worthiness – you need to know (when standing all alone, without anyone around there to validate you) that you are a worthy, worthwhile, lovable human being by your own right and other people's opinions (positive and negative) are just some transient factor that exists outside the self and shouldn't effect the truly healthy inner self. And B) becoming the person on the inside that somehow exists all by herself in there (in your head) and not in relation to anybody else and somehow manages to be happy and strong all by herself in there and for her to have all the tools she needs (not provided to her by others but by you) to grow and thrive to her full potential as an inner being living inside your head…. Once that happens… real life "practical" success will come along as a byproduct of the thriving that goes on inside. And those successes will also be the result of the things you enjoy because you enjoy them… not because you want to say "ah hah!" to any teachers or whoever from the past.  

Now to find a path to living these answers! I have been reaching out by returning to therapy. What are you doing to walk this talk?

qcr

[justnothing]

Now to find a path to living these answers! I have been reaching out by returning to therapy. What are you doing to walk this talk?

qcr

Well I didn't say I actually found a path to it necessarily but it's a work in progress. I've been in therapy for 13 years (well… with a 2 year break in the middle a few years back). One of the things I've been trying to do lately, to achieve more self awareness and self acceptance, is to write a diary with a list of all the things I either know about myself or strongly believe about myself… so far it's been a very, very heady experience and I'm not even sure I'd recommend trying it without consulting a therapist first.

Another thing, from the past couple of weeks that is, is trying to talk directly to my invalidating part. I sat down with a pen and paper and let her write me a letter… in which she explained that she only calls me horrible names all the time "for my own good" (to keep me from doing things that'll result in rejection and so on) so from then on, each time she starts insulting me, I stop and examine the event that triggered it and point out to her that that event either won't cause rejection or, alternatively, even if it will, that that won't be the end of the world… and that makes the insults stop… which is cool because so far this is the only thing that ever worked.

As for success, self worth and the like… I learned a lot about that during my 2 year break from therapy, ironically… back in college. The only reason I'd gone to college in the first place was basically so I'd someday save the world from whatever and "prove my worth". While in college, I came to understand that what I really, really wanted, underneath it all, was to be loved and that the admiration or appreciation of others over whatever I accomplished would have been a poor substitute. Later on I came to realize that receiving love from others would have also been a poor substituted… what my core self really needed was self love… and that part I'm still stuck at. I did learn to accept mediocrity though… by realizing that over 90% of mankind are "mediocre" and also by realizing that my lack of acceptance of mediocrity came from the subconscious self perception of being subhuman and "having something to prove".

[livednlearned]

What I've noticed about pursuing a big dream is that the chatter in your head never goes away. The chatter about being dumb, or in my case, this chatter that any time I feel proud of my accomplishments, I must be a narcissist. On top of it, being dyslexic, my impostor syndrome is rooted in feedback from the entire school system, not just FOO. But in the past year or so, maybe two, as I healed from my BPD marriage, I kinda learned how to manage the voices. Sort of what justnothing is getting at. There are days I cannot believe how incredibly dumb I am. There are days I can't believe I have fooled so many people. There are days I am certain that the only reason I got into the Phd program is because I was working with an influential academic at the same and they wanted her to keynote commencement.

Almost by accident, I ended up in this "amazing things happen when you decide to be great" place. N/BPDx's narcissism meant he oversold my talents to people, and that was hard for different reasons than someone having no faith in you. He wanted a wife with a Phd and I let his grandiosity validate me.

I finally told my boss that I thought the only reason I got into the program was because of my connection to her. She said, Who cares if that's true? I didn't know how to respond. But over time, I realized that was the best possible response. Maybe I did get into the program because of her. But if I finish, it will be because of me.

All I can say is, Do it. Whatever it is, do it. Do a tiny little piece, something that means you are moving forward with your plan. Then do another. Then another. Keep fooling people until you finally convince yourself you're the real deal. You'll tell yourself all kinds of awful things, but that's just you being silly, letting other people's words clutter up your head with mumbo jumbo.

Honestly, I think if we can survive BPD foos and marriages, we can do anything.

[Jbt857]

A thousand thanks to all of you.

Sorry it's taken so long to reply - I tend to read from my phone on the weekends (the 5 kids who tend to hog the computer at home) making it difficult to respond. Unless you're not too crazy about line breaks and punctuation.

You are so inspirational and it helps so much to know that you have faith in me. That you see potential. Even if it's just pixels on a screen, the words mean a lot... .that my struggles resonate with you too. It's so ironic when Blazing Star and musicfan42 mention Brene Brown - it's my vulnerability to even post this fear that has made me feel so much better about it.  

And your words of encouragement!

I do think that I am a perfectionist in sheeps clothing. My desk is really messy. My to-do list is really long. My filing is piled up. What's done though? It's done right.

I do think I'm so afraid of some kind of "wrongness" that I create these excuses "just in case". (Self Sabotage?)

As far as my father goes, livednlearned, I really don't know what he would say. I do think he might be proud but my memory is so riddled with his views on my being "better". My dad was very focused on intelligence - he, himself, was a very smart man. He saw himself as superior, but it was such hogwash. I admire someone who works hard without being "gifted". My brother and I tipped the scales when it came to testing and my Dad let people know it. He did tend to minimize accomplishment though, I won a writing contest once (got to meet the mayor!) and I remember him commenting on my work being remedial. I hated when he read my stuff.  

The anniversary of his death was yesterday - two years. I miss him. I'm not angry anymore about this stuff.  

The truth is that I would like him to be proud of me. The truth is that it may be a demon I can never tame. I've tried to reframe those thoughts in that he just struggled in that... .that his being proud is something I can't really see.

I can't blame him for this. Jeanette Wells wrote an amazing memoir - and her Dad was just like mine.

"Amazing things happen when you decide to be great".

This.

Gave me goosebumps.  

There's possibly an element of master procrastinator in there too. I know I am one of the greatest. Objectively, I know I have potential to do amazing things. I'm very good at my job, when I really need to be and push myself to, but most of the time I'm happier to do the bare minimum, at deadline, to scrape through.

I've been looking at this site: www.procrastinus.com - there's a useful test. I'm going to buy the book - just I'm currently procrastinating about it

I'm sure some of my procrastination is self-sabotage. I know it is. Some of it's plain laziness. Some of it's fear of failing. I'm rather introverted, and the idea of having to put myself 'out there' terrifies me.

I'm working on it. I have taken steps to conquer a number of personal things, getting over my BPDexh is high on that list, and I try and take a daily positive step on working on myself and reflecting on me. I have changed my diet and exercise significantly this year. And I've quit smoking. Little things, but they have helped build me routines and form good self-care habits.

I have a business idea that I'm convinced is good. That it could fly. But I'm stalling doing much about it right now (although I try and do one small thing towards it each day). I am determined to get there, but all the self-esteem and self-reflection stuff is a priority, to get me in the right place to be able to truly focus on it.

I'll get there. You'll get there too - if you want it badly enough.

We can't change the world in a day, and getting over the emotional trauma of a BPD relationship and the self-reflection it requires is a pretty good stepping stone.

I know you said you want to write. I have a first class MA in creative writing - I was mentored by an Oscar winning author. He told me this: 'The difference between a writer, and a non writer, is that a writer writes. Every day." Get in the habit. If that's your thing - just one small step every day to build the habit.

Go for it! 

[DreamGirl]

Jbt857,

I took that test (did you notice it was 6 days later?)

I scored an 88.8 out of 100:

You're a Master Procrastinator!

You rank in the top 10% of the population in terms of your level of procrastination. That is, when it comes to putting things off, you often do so even though you know you shouldn't. Likely, you are much more free-spirited, adventurous, and spontaneous than other people. Probably, your work doesn't engage you as much as you would like or perhaps you are surrounded by many easily available and enticing temptations. These temptations may initially seem rewarding, but in the longer-term, you see many of them as a waste of time. Though you are likely incredibly productive just before a deadline, you may not get all of your work done on time and there is a lot of unwanted stress. You almost certainly want to reduce your level of procrastination, and though you have tried to change, you often fall back into your old bad habits.

Thank you for pointing this out for me. Not that I didn't know or anything, but I think I'll buy the book too.

You should see my desk right now - goes against every single suggestion as what not to do.

[Jbt857]

Dreamgirl,

I scored 80, so we're right up there together.

My desk is always a mess - I know where everything is, but it looks like a bomb has exploded on it most of the time. I consider it organised chaos.

My copy of the book arrived this morning - I'll let you know how I get on with it. (If I get round to reading it)! 

[eeyore]

I'm not a procrastinator and generally my desk is very tidy.  However, I do find that I put everyone else before myself and that's something I have to work on.  Clearly I do it to get appreciation and praise.  What my x pointed out to me is that he shamed me for being manipulative to get that appreciation and praise.  And that desire to help others meant compromising boundaries that would have been helpful to me.  I now take care of myself and create win win situations by surrounding myself with good people.  There are still undesirable circumstance in my life.  I'm trying to change those that I can.   Making up affirmation statements that I repeat over and over to myself has been extremely helpful.  I'm changing my thinking to powerful positive thinking. 

[DreamGirl]

Eeyore... .I kinda do that too (codependent martyr that I am) especially when it came to my marriage. Hard to break old habits sometimes. Have to remind myself that I deserve to fulfill my dreams too.

I also have to say... .  you're starting to sound more like Pooh than your namesake.