Treading water... getting tired

[PonyGirl]

So some time and space this week has allowed me to reflect and look internally at myself and my relationship. It's been a pretty introspective week, which means it's also been a bit emotionally draining.

H and I spent some limited time together last week. This week he is traveling for work so we have texted a bit, but giving each other space. Had some deeply honest conversations. He has told me everything I have asked for, sent NC texts to the other women, changed his phone number and really been looking at himself. He sees there is a problem, that the choices he has made throuhout his life our ones he has not been proud of. That's his journey and I don't interject or comment when he discusses his self realizations other than to effectively validate and empathize. I'm trying to balance healing myself and saving my sanity with how to move forward, whether in this relationship or not. Right now, I am still of the mindset that I want to stay and put in the work. As long as he is, as well.

So, my question is: my T is the one who opened my eyes to my H's BPD tendancies. She is also seeing my H individually. Do pwBPD improve without the knoweldge that they are BPD? Can they learn different behaviors without labeling anything?

And, have you seen individuals improve when they finally recognize there is something different with how they process things vs how others typically process? My H is at that point and I believe is finally making the connections between his behavior and that of his father's. And I think the fear of being his dad, as well as where our marriage has landed, is one of the motivating factors for change.

I know it could be one step forward, two steps back for a long time. And I'm educating myself the best I can, both on BPD and CoD.

I guess I'm just here looking for some ray of hope today. My H has never been physically abusive to me. Our issues revolve around emotional manipulation and his recent infidelities. If I was ever fearful that he would harm me or anyone else, I would leave. If it's more a matter of modifying how his brain processes things and how he reacts/responds with his child mind... . Is there a better chance for some form of recovery when they are higher functioning?

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[Grey Kitty]

Lots of good questions, and I can't give you hard and fast answers, but I'll try on a couple.

Do pwBPD improve without the knoweldge that they are BPD? Can they learn different behaviors without labeling anything?

You can change your CoD behavior, enforce appropriate boundaries, etc. and that will spur the need for some changes. Absolutely no self-awareness of BPD is required on his part for that. Their changes are most often to get worse before getting better, but then some real improvement. But nobody can say what he will do for certain. Just that you can improve your life by changing yourself, and it is worth it!

I do believe that anything like a complete cure will require self-awareness of behaviors and some deeply felt self-hatred and other beliefs on the part of the pwBPD. My wife has recovered like this, and while she did hear the term BPD, she doesn't really acknowledge that it applies to her (or did apply to her). She absolutely did acknowledge some of her beliefs and behaviors that she did change. Other success stories have involved more formal diagnosis and treatment.

Is there a better chance for some form of recovery when they are higher functioning?

I'd guess that being higher functioning is a mixed blessing: Less likely to make such a big mess as to be thrown into a diagnosis and serious treatment, perhaps less motivation to improve... . but less work to do as well.

You sound committed to working on yourself, and supporting him. Keep it in that order, and it will serve you well!

 GK

[Blazing Star]

So, my question is: my T is the one who opened my eyes to my H's BPD tendancies. She is also seeing my H individually. Do pwBPD improve without the knoweldge that they are BPD? Can they learn different behaviors without labeling anything?

And, have you seen individuals improve when they finally recognize there is something different with how they process things vs how others typically process? My H is at that point and I believe is finally making the connections between his behavior and that of his father's. And I think the fear of being his dad, as well as where our marriage has landed, is one of the motivating factors for change.

I know it could be one step forward, two steps back for a long time. And I'm educating myself the best I can, both on BPD and CoD.

I guess I'm just here looking for some ray of hope today. My H has never been physically abusive to me. Our issues revolve around emotional manipulation and his recent infidelities. If I was ever fearful that he would harm me or anyone else, I would leave. If it's more a matter of modifying how his brain processes things and how he reacts/responds with his child mind... . Is there a better chance for some form of recovery when they are higher functioning?

Hi PonyGirl,

It sounds like it has been quite a journey for you! And you sound strong right now.

I believe that there is hope, it sounds like your H has hit a bottom of sorts and this is the beginning of recovery. It was similar for mine. His T alerted me (not him) to BPD, and then referred him to someone who specializes in DBT, and when he questioned the DBT T about it she says she doesn't find labels useful. But he is clearly getting better, the DBT is working, he has much more awareness over his feelings and his actions.

Like yours mine also has father issues, and not wanting to behave like his fathers (bio and step) has raised his awareness of his own behaviour and become a big motivating factor for personal work.

I think awareness and then motivation/inclination/will are huge factors in recovery. It is not all roses yet, and I have been doing a lot of work around CoD and my issues too, so things are much much better than they were.

Do you know if the T is doing DBT stuff with him? I think it's great that she is aware of BPD!

Keep us posted of the recovery - it is really interesting to see how other's paths are going with this, it can feel like two steps forward and one back at times, but at least it is moving forward!

Love Blazing Star

[waverider]

Your awareness of how to interact with BPD, combined with their insight and willingness to accept it, can make huge step forwards even though the disordered thinking is still there. "Cure" is often the wrong word as it is often more a case of recognizing and managing the behavior.

It is possible to have a happy and rewarding RS even thought the BPD base though processes are still there.

The awareness of triggers helps you avoid them or escalating, leading to less conflict.

Less conflict lowers their state of defensiveness, so there is a bigger breathing space between trigger and extreme reaction. If you are both aware and open to discussing the disorder then you are often capable at that stage to defuse the bomb.

If things do blow up you will have learned to not take it as personally, apply boundaries and disengage. They will be able to realize sooner they are out of order and it blows over quicker with less damage.

No RS is "perfect', and you will learn to accept these little dramas and life can be good.

It will take a long time and a lot of insight and acceptance on both of your parts, but it is possible to have a tenable RS with BPD still present. All this can be achieved without full BPD therapy.

Obviously good therapy will enable far greater core level management skills to the point where the symptoms are no longer present. This is the ideal but it is not the only solution, as some simply can't commit to full on therapy

[PonyGirl]

Thank you all very much for your support and insight. This journey is a difficult one. There are plenty of times I question myself and wonder what I'm doing. I look in the mirror and think I deserve more, but then I look at him and want to give him the chance to be that person. It gets overwhelming when I have to acknowledge that  he just may never be able to provide me with the emotional support that I truly want.

I've been applying boundaries and changing my reactions to his behavior and it seems to be helping. The outbursts, while still occurring, are fewer and last a significantly shorter duration.

I do have to admit that I did slip hard this week. After two days of his dysregulated behavior towards me, I finally snapped when I was driving us to an event to meet friends. I had shut down and didn't want to talk about the incidents with him over those two days, he pressed and wanted to air everything out and talk about our (i.e., his) feelings. I finally just Let loose with how I feel it's always about his issues, that I support him constantly without any reciprocation, that I'm tired and hurting and sad, and I don't know how to be when he gets like that. I think I even used the word dysregulate with him (oops). I told him that the truth distortion and false accusations were wearing on me and I will not engage in coversations when that is occurring. I reiterated that I love him and want to be here and am obviously putting in the work on my end to make myself a more whole person and to heal our marriage.

I expected an angry reaction from him. I expected him to blow up. I didn't get that. He was quiet, looked angry, but never said anything. He just sat there quietly. We went to the game, met our friends, and though it was a bit strained right at the beginning with him, he and I ended up having a good time. And we had dinner together last night with no issues. I haven't broached it again, and probably won't until counseling unless he brings it up.

So, I'm taking this as progress in his reaction, even though I didn't handle myself the way I would have chosen to... .

[Blazing Star]

So, I'm taking this as progress in his reaction, even though I didn't handle myself the way I would have chosen to... .

It sounds like you are doing well! I know it is hard accepting what they can and cannot give you, and it can feel like two steps forward and one back at times.

Love Blazing Star

[PonyGirl]

Well, it's been a few months since I have last checked in here so thought I would pop in with an update.

Things were up and down for awhile and then they just were down. Long story short, I was becoming the receptacle for all of the anger my H had for his father, for his unhappiness in life, for everything that I had together that he just didn't. He was resentful, irrational and could be mean. And I was done.

I was done being the doormat, done walking on eggshells, done being the chameleon to keep him happy. It was killing me. I was stressed, depressed, exhausted and no longer felt anywhere close to the person I used to be. So, I asked for a period of no contact. And, I felt 25 pounds lift off of my shoulders. I no longer had to worry about him or make sure he was ok or be afraid to breath wrong. I was FINALLY detached from this codependant cycle we were living. I missed him at times, but I didn't miss the emotional stressors that had been dictating my life.

We had tried a period of trial separation previously, but I knew I wasn't ready then. I was anxious about him and other women, anxious about him leaving, anxious about everything really. But, I had finally reached a place where I didn't care anymore because I had totally lost myself within this challenge to save my marriage. Now, if he chooses to take a different path, that's on him and it was better for me to be out then stuck spinning in the 'what if's". Now, i am truly living my own life and I am finding happiness again. I'm remembering who I am.

We had our first joint counseling session this week since we went no contact and, I walked in feeling one way and left reconsidering things. I was really ready to end things at this session, with enough distance and clarity that it brought, I had decided to choose my health and happiness finally. I was expecting more of the same from my H when we went. But I was completely thrown for a loop.

Sitting next to me was a man on the path to truly finding himself and truly understanding how I had felt and what I deserved in life, and how he had not provided that for the past two years. He had joined a group for families of those who had committed suicide and it appears he has finally found his center, clarity and realized all of the crazy feelings he was having were normal and there were others who could relate. He has been asked by the group to become a counselor for others and it really seemed to be something that was helping him find his rational self again.

At this session, I finally said all the things that I had been holding back for fear of chasing him away. I finally shared all of my needs in a relationship, who I was, how I had lost myself and how that had made me feel. He also finally really heard me. It was truly unexpected.

We are continuing with the NC and have another counseling session scheduled in a month. I was ready to finally walk, but now I am back to sitting tight and not making any decisions. I've seen progress with him before and I've also seen it regress. So, I need to protect myself and keep finding my own way, and then see if our paths were meant to merge again in the future.

I'm proud of him and his growth. But I'm more proud of me for finally recognizing my worth and realizing that the healthiest thing for me was to just finally let go.

[allibaba]

That is really amazing PonyGirl.



Good luck continuing your journey and having the strength to take care of yourself and give your husband enough distance to take care of himself (likely the first time in a long time).

Regardless of whether you stay or leave, you'll be a better person for these decisions that you are making now.

[Grey Kitty]

  Being done with all the horrible baggage of your r/s, "being a doormat, etc, etc, etc."

That is a fantastic point to be at. I'm incredibly happy for you.

I'm also impressed that you realize that these things are not just him.

Keep up the good work--you will know if it feels right to open up more to him, or stay clear.

Let us know how it develops!