This puzzles me

[PyneappleDays]

I've read items on here I've done some of my own councillor and I've read books.

Something keeps puzzling me.  I so want to word this right.  Through the frustration and confusion.

I've tried discussing things with my daughter about possibly moving back in with us, getting help and counciling us her us with her.  Nope she doesn't want any of it.  Her stupid bf tells me ( cause he's always there, but she gets mad if my husband shows up).  She maybe getting cut off OW and probably getting turned down by ODSP.

If we know they can't make good choices to their detriment.  At what point if we have the technology do we say enough is enough your getting hauled off and put in an institution where you can get the help you required?

They are only hurting themselves while your walking around living your life.  You know they want a part of it but their brain and behaviour are preventing it.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[crazedncrazymom]

Hi PyneappleDays,

You must be so worried about your daughter. If I recall correctly she is 17.  Is that right?  :)o you know what her plans are since she won't come home?  I'd be so scared my daughter would do something to put herself in a bad situation.  You have every right to be worried.  It's so smart of you to try to figure things out and make a plan.

I'm so sorry you feel you wouldn't be supported here if you seek a residential treatment facility (RTF)for your daughter.  We have a link at the top of the forum with some information for people who are interested in seeking a higher level of support for their children.  One of the things that makes this site so great is that there is so much understanding and compassion for the members here.  No matter what's going on with your family you can come here and get ideas on how to change things or just to vent.  We get it!  We're all doing the same thing here.    

A lot of parents on this forum, myself included, have used a RTF to help their children take those initial steps to start healing themselves.   We parents can offer all the support in the world.  Sometimes it's necessary to have them placed somewhere that they are forced into treatment.  I hated it.  I felt awful doing it.  I would do it all over again because it worked.  Also, it gave me time to heal from all the trauma and drama and to rethink my parenting and learn new skills.

Your first step would be to consider if you can afford a private facility.  They are extremely expensive and would probably cost around $50000 at minimum.  If your daughter is still in school you could speak to her district about partial financing.  Your insurance may also cover part of the treatment cost.  You could also look into scholarships for RTF.  I would recommend a long term treatment goal.  Her problems won't be cured with one of the less expensive 30 day programs and you would be wasting your money.  

You could also look into a state run facility.  I would talk to your doctor or therapist to get ideas on how to get started.  


-crazed

[js friend]

Hi PyneappleDays,


I can hear that you are worried about your dd.What are the bad choices that she is making? 

and  what do the abbrevs OW and ODSP mean.

[PyneappleDays]

Hi She's 19.  Legally I can't force her to do anything.  We live in Canada.  OW is Ontario Works, ODSP Ontario Disability Specialty Payment the SP not really sure) (social assistance).  Neither is suppose to be a long term solution.  Someone informed her at one of the shelters told her it was a good idea.  Which is now getting her into a lot of trouble.  They pass that information along to anyone new in the shelter.  I'd whish people would stop enabling her.  The welfare, shelters, people who let her live with them because she presents a sob story.  I thought that at least The OW would recognize the trouble she's in and put in plan that to get her money she'd have to do some RTC or mandatory group therapy payment based on the councillors recommendation.

She tell everyone that we (me, her step dad, her brother and her father) kicked her out.  We didn't we gave her options told her the rules.  When she lied broke her promise to adhere to them and didn't get her way she ran.

You'd think here we have free care, but you need to navigate it.  Which is frustrating.  If I wasn't working I'd get a faster response. I've even e-mailed the omnibusmen who usually pretty good.  I'm getting nowhere.  I don't have a money tree.  Money shouldn't be the solution or problem.  It's the navigation.   The second thing would get her to commit to going, I'd have to quit my job just to get her there.

Besides its only as good as her being ready and accepting.  This is hit or miss with her depending on who's she's with.  Right now she think things are ok cause there no cutting ( hasn't been in 1 year or so) and no suicidal thoughts

She has no problem asking for handouts but insists she doesn't want to come home.  We have certain rules we're not going to bend on or tolerate. She  also does not like my husband and blames him and her father for everything.  Are rules are very simple, No lying no drugs or alcohol, school, pt job, volunteer, church, and definately councilling (you, us, you and us) home by 11.  In short keep yourself honest, busy and out of trouble.

She comes home all of a sudaughteren I become a target and get no peace at all.  She can go morning noon and night and can get relentless.  This makes me feel awful as a mother.

P

[co.jo]

I found reading Valerie Porr's book so helpful, and she explains why behavior Contracts can't work. Not sure what part of Ontario you are in , but if there was a support group for family this would probably be helpful. I know it is hard to get your head around when obviously she is the one with the problem, but we are the ones who need to change.

My own daughter was homeless in Montreal a few years ago, and we are in BC so couldn't help. She had to do it herself, although the people in the Crisis Shelter helped her with a few things.She will be graduating from university this spring and proceeding to grad school, and supports herself, although we have helped in crisis situations.

Point being, when there was no one to help, she helped herself. Not that everything is perfect, but she is alive and well. And at 19 she wasn't ready to do the work, but still managed to mostly support herself without moving back home, which was not an option. It is very hard to watch what seems to be a direct path to self-destruction,, but by being here and knowing what your daughter's problem is, you are ahead of the game.

[Kate4queen]

I hate to say this but I think you can't make anyone with BPD do anything, especially when they are adults. You can offer help, you can recommend causes of action but you can't help them if they don't think they need help, and that, unfortunately is often the case.

With my BPD son, 22 we've tried what I would call a 'controlled crash' i.e. over the past two years since he did exactly the same as your dd did, (left home claiming we kicked him out) we're gradually reduced our involvement with his decision making and choices, given him a sum of money that we can afford but made no attempt to control what he spends it on. We refuse to pay his debts, we do pay rent on the apartment he shares with his younger brother, we won't pay for his education anymore after 4 years of him not achieving anything.

We don't get angry, we don't expect anything back from him, we validate him when he makes good choices and we don't comment when he makes bad ones. And it hasn't been easy to do that at all. We agonize over every step, every not jumping to enable him, but it was the only way for everyone else in the family to remain sane.

[crazedncrazymom]

co.jo makes a very good point about behavioral contracts.  People with BPD are just so impulsive and willful and stuck inside their own heads that it would be impossible to keep to a contract until they are further down the path to healing.

I also highly recommend Valerie Porr.  She introduced me to some radical concepts and it took forever to get through the book because I really had to take some time to process it.  It didn't make sense to me.  Questions like: Would you rather be right or have a relationship with your loved one?  That really stumped me for a long time because I always thought I want both.  I'm right dang it!  AND I want a relationship with my daughter.  It took forever for it to sink in.  I really couldn't have both.  It involves a lot of acceptance of behaviors and thoughts I didn't think were acceptable.  That's not to say I encourage or validate these behaviors, just accept that this is where your daughter is right now.  There are definitely still consequences for actions.  It's just different now.  I can calmly state how I feel about her actions.  Later when she asks for something I can say hey if you want to do these things I really need you not to do what you did. Then just follow through.  If she gets angry then she gets angry and I stay calm and validate those feelings.

It's different with an adult.  You really have to just keep on validating her good choices and whatever emotion she is feeling.  Celebrate those tiny little changes and show a lot of love and acceptance. 

-crazed

[Mish66]

Wow pyneappledays, sounds like our life. Our daughter is 15, turns 16 in a week. We had got her home a few months ago after she ran away, she refused to go to school even though she is bright and then got a good part time job. Unfortunately because she is addicted to weed she slipped back to her old ways and her old loser boyfriend who supplies her. We couldn't handle her anymore because she would just run away after hitting and abusing us. We have had the police involved and CYFS (child family govt support) but nothing has changed. She was impossible to live with and destroying our family. Three weeks ago her Dad got back from a military exercise overseas and they had a big fight and she left. I have contact off and on with her (when she chooses) and I fear she is destroying her life. Her boyfriend abuses her (mentally) and she doesn't eat cause she has eating issues and he told her she had got fat (she's never been the slightest bit overweight). Its just soul destroying to watch your daughter like this but we can't talk to her, she just yells and swears at us. She wasn't even home for Xmas dinner which was incrediably upsetting for us. Really don't know what to do - feel like we have to wait for something terrible to happen till she will actually listen to us.

[crazedncrazymom]

Hey Peace,   

You can do a behavioral contract, but as one of our posters suggested in another thread, it's more of a give and take contract.  If I tell my daughter... . do xyz or you're grounded!  I just may as well go ahead and ground her.  She's not going to do xyz to save her life.  It's like a switch goes off and the defiance kicks in and she just can't do it. 

Now I tell her how I feel when she doesn't do xyz.  It frustrates me and makes me feel angry when I see xyz isn't done.  Shockingly enough, she doesn't want me to feel angry or frustrated so she is much better about doing xyz.  A lot of BPD people are extremely connected to feelings. 

If that doesn't prompt her to do xyz then she doesn't get to do the things she'd like to do.  Oh you want me to go to the mall?  *sigh*  I really need xyz done.  I was really upset when I saw it wasn't done.

Hope that helps.

-crazed

[js friend]

Oh yes the behavioural contract. It didnt work at all with my dd.

T suggested that we use one with not much luck. dd wouldnt even follow the house rules let alone a behavioural contract that she said I trying  to control her with,  and stop her from having a life.

We tried a bc when dd's behaviour was at its worse around the age of 15 so i dont know if her age at that time had something to do with its lack of success. Back then running with new friends and sleeping around seemed to be the most important  things in  dd's life. Friends or potential b/fs couldnt be kept waiting, and she wasnt prepared to listen to anyone who didnt agree with her lifestyle or choices.

She disrespected our home, had no time for any of us and was abusive if she couldnt get her own way. Many days and night she would stay out at her new friends parents houses and just come home for a change of clothes.

At 17yo she just upped one morning and didnt return home... . declaring herself homeless and I didnt fight to bring her back home... . which i think she half expected, but it has been a good learning curve for her.

She wanted her independence for so many years. Even as a young child dd had always said that she wanted to grow up... . couldnt explain why, she just wanted to be big... . so now was her opportunity to do just that. And im sure there were times when she went to bed hungry and woke up without food but that was the reality.  Now she has a roof over her own head, pays her own bills,buys her own food, and looks after her own child. I know she often gets lonely though but I dont think she actually associates her past  bad behaviour with her current circumstances. Self reflection isnt something  I think my dd will ever do.

And suprise, suprise... . She says a few months ago that she wishes she was still back home, and also said that she even misses the area where we live. That after years of saying she couldnt wait to get out of this prison and this area held too many bad memories and she wanted to leave it and all of us behind for good!,