Holiday blowup

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

This could probably be my worst holiday so far. I came down with tonsillitis in two stretches. This triggers my wife as she can't stand to see me lie down if there are things to do.

So today came the big blowup. She yelled at me like there was no tomorrow, told me to get out of the house. I tried telling her that I can't talk to her if she yells at me. She agreed to keep her voice down, only to start again a few minutes later.

So now her major issue with me is that she thinks I don't do enough around the house, that she has to do "everything". I told her I can't do so much when I'm sick, but usually think I do quite a lot of stuff. This did not go down well with her. She also yelled at me for staying in the spare room and that I'm a "coward and a wimp". No apologies so far either... .

I can say I was very close to leaving the house this time. There is a place I can stay at. But I feel sorry for the kids.

[empathic]

This could probably be my worst holiday so far. I came down with tonsillitis in two stretches. This triggers my wife as she can't stand to see me lie down if there are things to do.

So today came the big blowup. She yelled at me like there was no tomorrow, told me to get out of the house. I tried telling her that I can't talk to her if she yells at me. She agreed to keep her voice down, only to start again a few minutes later.

So now her major issue with me is that she thinks I don't do enough around the house, that she has to do "everything". I told her I can't do so much when I'm sick, but usually think I do quite a lot of stuff. This did not go down well with her. She also yelled at me for staying in the spare room and that I'm a "coward and a wimp". No apologies so far either... .

I can say I was very close to leaving the house this time. There is a place I can stay at. But I feel sorry for the kids.

[Pearl55]

My psychiatrist told me that my son is not a priority at this stage and I must save myself FIRST.  I asked him is very selfish but he said; NOT AT ALL.


Your wife is not able to understand your respect for her! She views it as a weakness!

She needs attention, no matter negative or positive. You know if you decide to leave it has to be very well pre planned you cannot just leave. That's a recipe for disaster!

[empathic]

My psychiatrist told me that my son is not a priority at this stage and I must save myself FIRST.  I asked him is very selfish but he said; NOT AT ALL.

Your wife is not able to understand your respect for her! She views it as a weakness!

She needs attention, no matter negative or positive. You know if you decide to leave it has to be very well pre planned you cannot just leave. That's a recipe for disaster!

Thanks, you're very right that she does not understand that I respect her. She has zero respect for me.

I will have to sign up for a T to discuss my options, I don't know how I will cope with this.

I emailed her a suggestion that we divide up the chores in a new way if she feels that it is unfair currently.

She emailed back a lengthy letter about her opinions how we should do this, the funny thing is that it's not very different from what we do today (just that today it is not "planned". She won't let me do laundry for example, she has said before that she thinks I mess it up. Yet I did laundry by myself for 10 years when living alone before meeting her, with no problems. Also strange that one of her complaints during the holiday was that she had to do all the laundry.

[Pearl55]

Empathic

You can't make a reason with her, that's why your mental health is at risk. Is all about CONTROL for borderlines! As a eastern woman I uesd to do all the house work and I didn't expect my husband do anything.

Sometimes I used to come home from work and go straight to the kitchen and do whatever needed to do and my husband sometimes used to tell me ; why do you want to take the control of the house? Excuse me is this control?

Their minds work very differently to us!

[hergestridge]

The problem is you're telling her she was right, that the household chores was the problem. This will happen again and again when she feels she's out of control. She'll pick a fight and you'll be forced to the negotiating table, only to re-negotiate the current situation as-is, without changes! This has happened to me time and time over. Every time my BPDw has pretended to have won some sort of victory.

I swear we split the housework 50/50, but every once in a while my wife decide she's done a tiny bit too much and then she can't sleep for a couple of nights.

It's a symbolic "trial" to put you into place. Don't accept it. It's time-consuming, painful and degrading.

[empathic]

The problem is you're telling her she was right, that the household chores was the problem. This will happen again and again when she feels she's out of control. She'll pick a fight and you'll be forced to the negotiating table, only to re-negotiate the current situation as-is, without changes! This has happened to me time and time over. Every time my BPDw has pretended to have won some sort of victory.

I swear we split the housework 50/50, but every once in a while my wife decide she's done a tiny bit too much and then she can't sleep for a couple of nights.

It's a symbolic "trial" to put you into place. Don't accept it. It's time-consuming, painful and degrading.

Good observation. She's now all cheerful again while I feel like I've been run over by a steam train. What has changed? Not much. I made it easier to get an overview on what needs to be done in a week (a 15 min job). She made a list of all things that needs doing in the household. I'm not sure of her intentions with it, as she just stated a few more things that she wanted me to do. Turns out the real problem was one of her many projects, that she thought was stealing too much time.

I've seen the pattern before. While working on her projects she will get irritated by something or someone, but she can't deal with it right away, instead it builds up inside her and one day she lets it loose on me.

I'd like to set boundaries around these things and not accept it as you say, but it's difficult as she does not really listen to me, I don't get through to her.

My plan this time is to make sure we have some systems in place to make sure most things get done on time, ridding her of that weapon against me. But she's started to pull the brakes on some things she said while raging, probably realizing that she would lose control by making changes in those areas.

[hergestridge]

Sounds familiar.

One of the things that gets my wife into trouble is that she starts to boss people around when she's under stress. People do take offence and I'm not that too happy about it either.

It gets really stupid. I have to tell her "stop giving me orders!" and she goes "why? there are things that need to be done?". She doesn't so much lose her ability to self-reflect as she seems to reject the entire concept.

My wife and I saw a T together for a while and my wife brought up the household chores issue. The T suggested we'd make a list/schedule. I said she didn't understand, but if she'd get to know my wife better she'd understand. A list gives the BPD-person his/her power back. whenever he/she feels disadvantaged he/she will demand a major investigation, a fair trial and that a document will be produced. It is not a loving gesture, to put it mildly. They are like dogmatists within their own realtionships. Behaving like enemies towards the people who try their best to love them.

And if you get past the household chores, I'm sure she'll find other areas. It's not about the household chores and it's not about you. So changing is a waste of time, isn't it? Or does it help?

[Pearl55]

Empathic

You've got to be very assertive. It's like you dealing with a 3 year old! You should command your respect. If she doesn't act the way she should you've got to look at her eyes very deeply and ask you what you want. If she rags, you've got to take your exit and don't answer your phone for couple of hours.

Being assertive is very different to being abusive. In reality these women like abusive men. I've been witnessed how my NPD father inlaw treated horribly my BPD mother in-law and how she adored him! Is all about attentions, no matter positive or negative!

[empathic]

My wife and I saw a T together for a while and my wife brought up the household chores issue. The T suggested we'd make a list/schedule. I said she didn't understand, but if she'd get to know my wife better she'd understand. A list gives the BPD-person his/her power back. whenever he/she feels disadvantaged he/she will demand a major investigation, a fair trial and that a document will be produced. It is not a loving gesture, to put it mildly. They are like dogmatists within their own realtionships. Behaving like enemies towards the people who try their best to love them.

And if you get past the household chores, I'm sure she'll find other areas. It's not about the household chores and it's not about you. So changing is a waste of time, isn't it? Or does it help?

Sounds right. My wife loves lists in all forms. That kind of structure is a fundamental part of her functioning. We are very different in that aspect. An example would be grocery shopping. If we don't have food at home to cook one evening my wife will become paralyzed. I go to the store and get something, I can actually often prefer it like that, because you can get something you'd like to eat that evening. My wife wants us to shop for the entire week, from long lists.

And I don't get any credit for making this kind of spontaneous dinner shopping (and cooking) because she thinks the logistics is flawed. If I tell her that I think the same problem can be approached in different ways by different people, she thinks I'm just making excuses.

I'd say that agreeing to it in this case made a lot of difference short term, because she's cheerful and easy to talk to at dinner etc. But is it right? Probably not.

[empathic]

Empathic

You've got to be very assertive. It's like you dealing with a 3 year old! You should command your respect. If she doesn't act the way she should you've got to look at her eyes very deeply and ask you what you want. If she rags, you've got to take your exit and don't answer your phone for couple of hours.

Being assertive is very different to being abusive. In reality these women like abusive men. I've been witnessed how my NPD father inlaw treated horribly my BPD mother in-law and how she adored him! Is all about attentions, no matter positive or negative!

Yes, you make a good point and it would probably work the way you describe. Problem is I'm not very assertive at all and can't pretend to be. I'd have to learn that from the ground up somewhere, but I don't even know if that is possible? And even if it would solve a lot of problems, I'm not sure it is the kind of family life I'd want in the long run... .

[hergestridge]

Exactly the same here! Work that I do that my wife has not planned doesn't "count" in her world. Actually, that kind of self-centredness must somehow be attributed to the illness?

BTW I much prefer to do all the shopping because she "plans" so many cooking projects that I eventually will have to dig out of the freezer and throw in the thrash. Spontaneous decisions in the supermarket (like going vegan - again!). She can't stand "boring" and needs to have a "challenging" project in the pipeline even when shopping for groceries. Never mind that we're broke and the kid is crying. Sometimes they really are like little kids.

My wife and I saw a T together for a while and my wife brought up the household chores issue. The T suggested we'd make a list/schedule. I said she didn't understand, but if she'd get to know my wife better she'd understand. A list gives the BPD-person his/her power back. whenever he/she feels disadvantaged he/she will demand a major investigation, a fair trial and that a document will be produced. It is not a loving gesture, to put it mildly. They are like dogmatists within their own realtionships. Behaving like enemies towards the people who try their best to love them.

And if you get past the household chores, I'm sure she'll find other areas. It's not about the household chores and it's not about you. So changing is a waste of time, isn't it? Or does it help?

Sounds right. My wife loves lists in all forms. That kind of structure is a fundamental part of her functioning. We are very different in that aspect. An example would be grocery shopping. If we don't have food at home to cook one evening my wife will become paralyzed. I go to the store and get something, I can actually often prefer it like that, because you can get something you'd like to eat that evening. My wife wants us to shop for the entire week, from long lists.

And I don't get any credit for making this kind of spontaneous dinner shopping (and cooking) because she thinks the logistics is flawed. If I tell her that I think the same problem can be approached in different ways by different people, she thinks I'm just making excuses.

I'd say that agreeing to it in this case made a lot of difference short term, because she's cheerful and easy to talk to at dinner etc. But is it right? Probably not.[/quote]

[Pearl55]

Empathic

Passivity is a big issue in any relationships and kiss of death in BPD relationships. Many therapists don't know what is BPD and therefore they are not able to guide you. Is it possible to find a psychiatrist? You need an individual counselling.

It depends on what type of borderline she is? My sister inlaw is a waif and attended counselling more than 20 years! He's husband is bankrupt now and he become drug addicted himself! Everybody is different but no matter how powerful you are, borderline's pathalogical issues are far more serious than we think! You've to ask yourself what do you want and learn what is BPD because many think they only rag or controlling but is much more than that!

A good psychiatrist makes you to become stronger and then you will become less dependent to your wife. You can only make a healthy choice once you are stronger! That will be a long process but will worth it. Sometimes is a good idea to have a look at the leaving board and get some idea of other people's experiences. There are plenty of knowledgable members there.

[empathic]

Exactly the same here! Work that I do that my wife has not planned doesn't "count" in her world. Actually, that kind of self-centredness must somehow be attributed to the illness?

BTW I much prefer to do all the shopping because she "plans" so many cooking projects that I eventually will have to dig out of the freezer and throw in the thrash. Spontaneous decisions in the supermarket (like going vegan - again!). She can't stand "boring" and needs to have a "challenging" project in the pipeline even when shopping for groceries. Never mind that we're broke and the kid is crying. Sometimes they really are like little kids.

Yes, I'd prefer to do all the shopping also, because when my wife does it's all so bothersome for her... . she accuses me of being lazy but should really look at herself first.

I think that for me an ideal r/s would be that each party would try to make life easier for the other one. As an example when my wife was at home with our kids when they were small I'd make sure all dishes were done in the morning (sometimes making me late for work) and that they had food at home for the day. Sometimes I'd come home at 3 p.m. because I could tell in the morning that she was really overwhelmed. On top of this she also had demands that the house should be spotless.

Then when it was my turn to be at home with the kids, I'd hoped that the reverse would be true... . but as you can guess of course it wasn't. I can even remember that she ruined my first day of paternity leave by being dysregulated about having to go back to work, in a terrible mood.

It's a pity, because she does not understand that the above takes away my desire to be helpful, so she is the one that it affects in the end. I have tried to communicate that to her but she fails to see it.

She also has a very short memory for these things, she no longer remembers how much I did back then (probably 60-40, maybe even a 70-30 distribution of household chores).

[empathic]

Empathic

Passivity is a big issue in any relationships and kiss of death in BPD relationships. Many therapists don't know what is BPD and therefore they are not able to guide you. Is it possible to find a psychiatrist? You need an individual counselling.

It depends on what type of borderline she is? My sister inlaw is a waif and attended counselling more than 20 years! He's husband is bankrupt now and he become drug addicted himself! Everybody is different but no matter how powerful you are, borderline's pathalogical issues are far more serious than we think! You've to ask yourself what do you want and learn what is BPD because many think they only rag or controlling but is much more than that!

A good psychiatrist makes you to become stronger and then you will become less dependent to your wife. You can only make a healthy choice once you are stronger! That will be a long process but will worth it. Sometimes is a good idea to have a look at the leaving board and get some idea of other people's experiences. There are plenty of knowledgable members there.

Yes, I plan on focusing on my wellbeing this year. Going to seek out help to make myself feel happier and more in control of my life. The codependency is of course only in my head and it must be possible to break it somehow. If I almost feel willing to separate physically surely there must be some way to separate mentally first, to be more "selfish" ?

Thanks to the contributors to this thread, it has helped me a lot to move forward with my thoughts. It does not feel as hopeless as it did when I started this thread.

[empathic]

So the tables have turned now, my wife has gotten sick and I'm getting better. Makes the differences very obvious. My wife asks for a glass of water and I gladly get one for her. When I was sick she did absolutely nothing for me, didn't even set a plate for me at breakfast. I asked her to get some coughing drops for me at the store, she forgot to buy them. I buy them for her without her asking.

I can't act like she does, it's not my nature. What would I say? "sorry, you didn't do anything for me, so get your glass of water yourself". She's rather manic currently, she's forgotten everything about treating me badly apparently. Wants to make plans for renovating our house. I go along so far, what can I do?

[Pearl55]

Empathic

Do you really want to renevate your house?

[Pearl55]

Your needs never matter in your BPD relationship! Whatever you do is your RESPONSIBILITY! If you think one day she will realise that how much you give and she will do it for you, unfortunately you are seriously wrong.

Normally they don't know what they want. They want you do x,y and z and when you do it either you didn't do it to their standards or ... . it is a futile exercise if you want to make them happy because that will not happen!

[empathic]

Empathic

Do you really want to renevate your house?

Good question. She says she wants to spend parts of a heritage on it, but it would cut into my savings as well, money I might need to get a place of my own later on. And if she spends more than me I'm sure I'll be called a "freeloader" a year from now when she's forgotten the discussions we have now.

Thing is there is some urgent needs to do this renovating, and we've discussed back and forth and have finally found a way to do it with as little change as possible. But it's really hard for me to factor this into my thoughts about staying or leaving. It would make it a better house for the kids to live in. It would increase the value of the house, probably as much as the renovation costs.

[Pearl55]

Emparhic

We did major renevation in our house. On that time I was confused and wasn't sure if I wanted to stay or not. I've spent all my savings because I thought it would be a better house for my son and although increase the value.

When I tried to learn about BPD I found out sixt sense of borderlines are very high when you want to put one foot out of the door! My husband paralysed me financially and trapped me. It might be your case or not but as you are not in a normal relationship it might be better if you don't use your savings.

I have always been too honest with my husband and I paid the price. I'm not saying that lie to her but honesty doesn't count in BPD relationship because trust doesn't EXCIST whatever you do!

[empathic]

Yes, my wife is very clever so it could quite possibly be a manipulation tactic to drain me financially. And/or as a form of test to see if I am committed to the r/s or not. I think if I would say "no" to the renovation she'd surely see it as me stating that the r/s is over.

I have also believed in total honesty and transparency. Looking back in time now with what I've learned about BPD in mind, I wonder about a number of things that my wife might not have been honest about. But I can't be certain as it's a bit late. I used to think that she was also very honest, but I can see now that she'd probably lie to cover up things she's ashamed of.