Court still pending, new school, no daycare, Ex gets triggered

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Court testimony is over, two full days last week, so is our child's in camera interview with the GAL and magistrate.  Next are the written summations due next week and then its up to the court to rule.

First were the predictable attempts to settle.  Of course all the real offers were from my side or so it seemed.  We wanted ex to be in counseling and fr me to have alternate weekends.  At some point we even alternate weeks just in the summer was mentioned.  My ex wanted the equal time to continue and if there was to be counseling then we both would be required to get it.  I'm not sure exactly what the other side was agreeing to but it stuck on counseling, she wanted us both in counseling, surely so it would look like we both were the problems, so of course we deadlocked and proceeded into court.  Court only wanted to hear about incidents since our last time in court in 2011.  Court stressed that there were two days allocated and court was determined neither side would get additional time.

I testified first.  It was hard, I guess it was my nervousness about my lawyer's questions.  I felt much more composed during my cross examination and for the rest of the hearing.  My lawyer had asked what I felt was appropriate and I stated alternate weekends and preferably from Friday after school to Monday before school so we would have fewer encounters at exchanges.  (KISS = Keep It Super Simple)  Then in cross her lawyer asked about the county's guideline schedule - through age 12 its schedule lists longer weekends and an overnight in between - and I just said I never mentioned it.  (True, it was mentioned in settlement attempts but not in court.)

Ex testified and day one was over.  The next day we started off with testimony from last year's teacher and the elementary school principal son had since the last month of kindergarten.  Focus was on a school sponsored and school supervised 5th grade overnight field trip themed Underground Rail Road with a night walk reenactment.  They were both especially proud of it.  They reported that 97% student turnout last year was typical.  Mother felt it was 'her' time and so came to get her child.  They confirmed mother was agitated, even upset at another parent, though they did say she had gotten lost finding the place, as though arriving after getting lost did not have to make a parent feel relief rather than upset.

Ex's cross was a different matter, my lawyer had some recordings, about 4 sets, about obstructed exchanges and ex's obstructive exchange actions.  For example, to reduce in person contact our order states that exchanges are at 6 pm but if there is school, daycare or other activity then the receiving parent can pick up from there.  I was going to get off work early one day before a holiday this summer and so I informed her I planned to pick up our son at 3 pm from her daycare or summer camp.  Hers was at her work location.  She said no, son was with her.  So I got off work early, did errands, then went to pick him up at the regular exchange location.  She was a no show and when I called she said I had to pick him up from her summer camp.  So my point in court was that she wrongly manipulated events to her favor, beforehand claiming son was with her so I couldn't get him early and later wanting me to go there anyway since he had been in camp.

Her lawyer contested the recordings, saying he hadn't heard them.  My lawyer replied they'd been delivered to him with the rest of our exhibits back in July.  The judge told the lawyers to listen to them in a conference room.  That took well over half an hour.  Then her lawyer claimed they hadn't been authenticated.  Judge stated that would be addressed later,  Then my lawyer asked questions, ex kept saying she didn't remember, L said let's refresh your memory, played another clip, ex said she still didn't remember, L asked if it was her voice and she confirmed.

Then the GAL cross examined her.  She was saying she didn't remember when GAL was asking, even contradicted GAL and at one point GAL asked, ":)o you have memory problems?"

The GAL testified that she recommended I get majority time and son did want more time with his father.  I think she also recommended mother get counseling.

Then we had a sidebar or pre-trial called by my lawyer.  I later heard it was so he could ask that the authentication of the recordings be done without replaying them so ex wouldn't have to listen to them again.  Her lawyer insisted they each be replayed.  So for the third time that day all the clips were played.  After each one I confirmed I recorded them, when, on what device, and that they were not modified.  Once my lawyer asked if there were any others and I said yes, but I chose these few as examples and some even matched times I filed police reports.

We finished day two, walking out about a minute before the end of the court's scheduled hours.  I presume a decision will be issued sometime in November.

This was the FIRST time ever in family court (since our first appearance in November 2005) that mother's behaviors and cognition were exposed and reviewed in detail, however limited, in court.  There is so much more that could have been said.  Son was 3 then, he's 11 now.

To a certain extent I feel sorry for her situation, as in "what IF", but I still have to deal with "what IS", not with what I dreamed and hoped our marriage and family would be.

[ForeverDad]

Court testimony is over, two full days last week, so is our child's in camera interview with the GAL and magistrate.  Next are the written summations due next week and then its up to the court to rule.

First were the predictable attempts to settle.  Of course all the real offers were from my side or so it seemed.  We wanted ex to be in counseling and fr me to have alternate weekends.  At some point we even alternate weeks just in the summer was mentioned.  My ex wanted the equal time to continue and if there was to be counseling then we both would be required to get it.  I'm not sure exactly what the other side was agreeing to but it stuck on counseling, she wanted us both in counseling, surely so it would look like we both were the problems, so of course we deadlocked and proceeded into court.  Court only wanted to hear about incidents since our last time in court in 2011.  Court stressed that there were two days allocated and court was determined neither side would get additional time.

I testified first.  It was hard, I guess it was my nervousness about my lawyer's questions.  I felt much more composed during my cross examination and for the rest of the hearing.  My lawyer had asked what I felt was appropriate and I stated alternate weekends and preferably from Friday after school to Monday before school so we would have fewer encounters at exchanges.  (KISS = Keep It Super Simple)  Then in cross her lawyer asked about the county's guideline schedule - through age 12 its schedule lists longer weekends and an overnight in between - and I just said I never mentioned it.  (True, it was mentioned in settlement attempts but not in court.)

Ex testified and day one was over.  The next day we started off with testimony from last year's teacher and the elementary school principal son had since the last month of kindergarten.  Focus was on a school sponsored and school supervised 5th grade overnight field trip themed Underground Rail Road with a night walk reenactment.  They were both especially proud of it.  They reported that 97% student turnout last year was typical.  Mother felt it was 'her' time and so came to get her child.  They confirmed mother was agitated, even upset at another parent, though they did say she had gotten lost finding the place, as though arriving after getting lost did not have to make a parent feel relief rather than upset.

Ex's cross was a different matter, my lawyer had some recordings, about 4 sets, about obstructed exchanges and ex's obstructive exchange actions.  For example, to reduce in person contact our order states that exchanges are at 6 pm but if there is school, daycare or other activity then the receiving parent can pick up from there.  I was going to get off work early one day before a holiday this summer and so I informed her I planned to pick up our son at 3 pm from her daycare or summer camp.  Hers was at her work location.  She said no, son was with her.  So I got off work early, did errands, then went to pick him up at the regular exchange location.  She was a no show and when I called she said I had to pick him up from her summer camp.  So my point in court was that she wrongly manipulated events to her favor, beforehand claiming son was with her so I couldn't get him early and later wanting me to go there anyway since he had been in camp.

Her lawyer contested the recordings, saying he hadn't heard them.  My lawyer replied they'd been delivered to him with the rest of our exhibits back in July.  The judge told the lawyers to listen to them in a conference room.  That took well over half an hour.  Then her lawyer claimed they hadn't been authenticated.  Judge stated that would be addressed later,  Then my lawyer asked questions, ex kept saying she didn't remember, L said let's refresh your memory, played another clip, ex said she still didn't remember, L asked if it was her voice and she confirmed.

Then the GAL cross examined her.  She was saying she didn't remember when GAL was asking, even contradicted GAL and at one point GAL asked, ":)o you have memory problems?"

The GAL testified that she recommended I get majority time and son did want more time with his father.  I think she also recommended mother get counseling.

Then we had a sidebar or pre-trial called by my lawyer.  I later heard it was so he could ask that the authentication of the recordings be done without replaying them so ex wouldn't have to listen to them again.  Her lawyer insisted they each be replayed.  So for the third time that day all the clips were played.  After each one I confirmed I recorded them, when, on what device, and that they were not modified.  Once my lawyer asked if there were any others and I said yes, but I chose these few as examples and some even matched times I filed police reports.

We finished day two, walking out about a minute before the end of the court's scheduled hours.  I presume a decision will be issued sometime in November.

This was the FIRST time ever in family court (since our first appearance in November 2005) that mother's behaviors and cognition were exposed and reviewed in detail, however limited, in court.  There is so much more that could have been said.  Son was 3 then, he's 11 now.

To a certain extent I feel sorry for her situation, as in "what IF", but I still have to deal with "what IS", not with what I dreamed and hoped our marriage and family would be.

[Waddams]

Glad you finally had the hearing.  Glad it's over.  Regardless of outcome, it's finally done.

Do you have a feeling for what the judge thought or what judge's impressions might have been?

[Matt]

It sounds like the court got a pretty good cross-section of what has been going on.  Not much more you can do.

Maybe the written summation can focus, to some extent, on what each of you have done for your own health and so you can be good parents.  Maybe you can't assume any diagnosis for your ex, but you can point out that she clearly has some problems, and she doesn't seem to be doing anything about them, and that's not best for your son.

I hope the ruling is good, but in any case, you've done what you could.

[ForeverDad]

When ex's lawyer had filed for another continuance for this Parenting Time motion filed in July 2012, the magistrate denied the motion and didn't wait for my lawyer to agree or disagree.

Usually when the parents disagree, the court will give a lot of weight to the recommendation of the child's lawyer if one has been assigned.  For that reason I'm not very concerned about the outcome.

My impression is that the magistrate had to sit though the two day circus to give everyone an opportunity to present their cases.  I can't imagine any way the court could come to a different conclusion but I fervently hope the judge delivers a solid decision and doesn't leave valid cause for ex to appeal.

I believe the magistrate will be forthright since this is not early in the case.  Here's an example of past leniency.  This magistrate, soon after the final decree in 2008, ruled ex was "technically" not in contempt for taking son with her on vacation without giving written notice nor even specific dates, reasoning that ex had an "inability to comply" because the order was only a few weeks old and the old order was ended.  Well, she may not have been able to comply fully with the new order but my point was she didn't even try!  I didn't even know son was gone until they were a couple states away!  So ex got a break back then.  Some 5 years later, I doubt she will get a break now.

[Forward2free]

To a certain extent I feel sorry for her situation, as in "what IF", but I still have to deal with "what IS", not with what I dreamed and hoped our marriage and family would be.

(I've changed my username - previously Kormilda)

Feeling sorry for her is all part of the process. It's such a healthy statement to say you are dealing with "what IS" instead of "what IF" and I think it's a really useful phrase to remember to keep it real. It's so easy to slip back into trying to make it easier for them, but keeping the kids as the focus is the most important thing.

Hopefully they give you a decision quickly and you can get the new orders started with extra time.

It's incredible to hear that her behaviour got worse in the court over time, I guess she was feeling the pressure more and forgetting to keep up the charade.

[livednlearned]

Hearing your experience makes me appreciate my court and judge. I can't believe you have to wait until November for a ruling! And Two. Whole. Days. Of. Testimony.

It's important that everyone feels heard, yeah, I get that. But then there's also just theater. Did you think it really needed two days?

Did you think that the principal and teachers were strong witnesses in your favor? Sorry -- couldn't tell from your description. I would worry that teachers might be afraid of appearing to take sides, but maybe your circumstances became so dire that they felt compelled to tell it straight?

Glad this is over for you. I hope the outcome is what you hope it to be 

[Nope]

I really do have my fingers crossed for you ForeverDad. It's clearly been a long and exhausting process that you've gone through. I'll be looking for an update on how this goes. I'm pretty curious about how effective recordings are. The BPD I am dealing with simply remains calm and acts like whatever she got caught doing is totally irrelevant and somehow the nons around her get pulled in by that and believe that if she shows no sign of upset or remorse then they must be misunderstanding something and it wasn't that bad.

[coffee shop]

ForeverDad - you help me appreciate that although I am very frustrated with the court system and the judge I have right now, at least my children are grown and were not from this marriage. Thinking of you

[Eco]

Good luck! Its nice to see dads that really care . that's a long battle and you give me hope, Im just starting and ive got 17 more years

[ForeverDad]

Well, time for an update... .there is no update.

We had two full days in domestic court in mid-October for the Motion to Modify Parenting Time, then our 11 year old had an in camera interview with the magistrate and GAL.  Our written summations were filed with the court over a month ago.

< crickets chirping >

Meanwhile we continue with equal parenting time and ex continues receiving child support.

[Matt]

Well, time for an update... .there is no update.

We had two full days in domestic court in mid-October for the Motion to Modify Parenting Time, then our 11 year old had an in camera interview with the magistrate and GAL.  Our written summations were filed with the court over a month ago.

< crickets chirping >

Meanwhile we continue with equal parenting time and ex continues receiving child support.

Any guesses when there will be a ruling?

Are you using a lawyer?

[livednlearned]

What is the process for getting a timely response? Do you have any recourse?

[MiddleEastMike]

Lawyers must absolutely   NPD/BPD clients!

[Nope]

Lawyers must absolutely   NPD/BPD clients!

In my experience they really don't. She's been through there lawyers so far. It appears she went crying to each in turn with her warped version of events. Each lawyer knee she couldn't afford to pay them but they thought they were doing the right thing sticking up for a single mom against her "bully" ex. Each one got themselves removed from the case when the truth became apparent. (That she couldn't pay them and she was the problem.) Also, once they started questioning her it's apparent she began throwing temper tantrums (or so we heard through the paralegal grapevine).

FD - Keep hope. It usually takes the court longer to decide to change something than it does to decide to keep it the same.

[livednlearned]

Lawyers must absolutely   NPD/BPD clients!

In my experience they really don't.

That's been my experience too. My L has withdrawn from cases when she suspects they are NPD or BPD. She said the emotional toll of watching them ruin their kids' lives is too high. She has a D, and if her client won't reign it in, she withdraws. Not worth the money.

I also learned that withdrawing from a case can turn the client into a pariah, although I guess there's always someone who will take them on retainer.

[ForeverDad]

In July 2012 I filed for modification of parenting time, seeking majority time, I have had custody since 2011, but at that time son's GAL had resisted changing the equal parenting time, thinking if ex could get child support to replace the ended alimony then she'd be more stable.  I sure didn't see any improvement in her so a little over a year later I went back to court seeking majority time.  Yes, it is over 17 months later.  Well, I was pondering going to court later this week and asking the clerk if I had broken a record for Modification of Parenting Time.  By tomorrow my case would have spanned across 3 years - 2012, 2013 & 2014.  Not to be... .

Earlier this week the court issued a decision.  I'm presuming it was held back until we were past the holiday.  Overall it was a real improvement, a few things not optimal, but overall it might be good enough to kiss the court a long goodbye.  (More than 6 of the past 8 years since separation have seen us mired in pending court cases.)  If neither of us files an appeal or paperwork for a reconsideration, then it will be final in mid-January.

• During the school year I have majority time.  Mother gets an afternoon/evening after school each midweek and alternate weekends Friday after school to Monday before school.



• During the summer we continue our 2/2/5/5 equal time schedule.  I think son's old enough to do 7/7 with fewer exchanges but that option wasn't offered.



• Our strict telephone contact order that eliminated 'reasonable' in 2009 has, by court's agreement with my request, had 'reasonable' returned to the telephone contact clause.



• There is no child support ordered since I did not provide either parent's income statements so the court could calculate what ex, the non-residential parent, should pay.  Um, no one asked me for it!  I had mine with me in court and have always provided in prior court cases.  On the other hand ex has never provided her income and in the past has always been imputed with minimum wage.  So until now I have been paying either child support or alimony for nearly all of the past 8 years.



• I have to pay the GAL and court fees but ex's fees were waived based on her prior income worksheet (her imputed minimum wage).



• Son should resume counseling, he had 'graduated' it in 2011 but court wants sessions for son at pace determined by counselor.  Court wanted mother included since it concluded she did not have money or insurance.  However, in testimony I recall her confirming she had secondary insurance for son, presumably Medicaid, so why wouldn't she have insurance for herself?  (I thought ACA for everyone was starting tomorrow, January 2014, doesn't the court know that?)



• The rest of the order doesn't change.  Holidays and vacations remain unchanged.  I continue to get child deductions for my taxes.  On paper she is to still reimburse 17% of medical expenses.

The unheard of happened, I've always said courts don't use any phrases stronger than 'not credible' with parents.  I stand corrected.  While concluding that the GAL's and father's recollections are 'more credible', it also noted mother 'must be lying' about not remembering things that would place her in a negative light.

There's more but that's the gist.  Son came out the winner.  It only took 8 years of baby step improvements to get here.

[Matt]

Wow - Happy New Year!

The bad stuff doesn't seem that bad.  2/2/5/5 seems like too many exchanges, but maybe you can work that out - change it to 7/7 - by mutual agreement, if you can figure out a way to let it be your ex's idea.

I can't imagine that the court would have ordered much child support even if all the documentation had been done.  Expecting someone who makes very little money to pay much seems pretty unlikely, and not worth fighting over.

The ACA theoretically is in force now, but that doesn't mean everybody has insurance.  (In fact, it may be that fewer people have insurance now than before, because of cancelled policies.)  In time it may become expected that everyone will have some form of insurance, but that just isn't the reality yet, so it seems reasonable that the court did not assume that of your ex.

I find it very surprising that the court would use the word "lying" - not "Mother may not be completely honest in her answers" or something softer like that.  Seems like the judge has come to a very solid conclusion about her honesty (and yours).

Congratulations - this sounds pretty good, and probably sustainable.  Maybe you won't have to focus on court anymore... .

[livednlearned]

Really good news, FD. Glad to hear court leaned your way! What a nice way to start the new year.

Is your son with his mom for the break? Is your ex likely to to dysregulate when she gets the news? (Or now, if she already received it?)

I'm confused about court ordering counseling for the mother -- does that mean with your son?

[Nope]

Congratulations on getting something done! I know it isn't everything you wanted but you are right that courts simply will not give one party everything they want. It does seem you will be the parent with the most influence on your child's life and that is absolutely the most important thing.

I'm not surprised you got the run around about child support though. In my extensive reading of family law cases I've found that the court often finds ways around doing things they don't want to do, even if it is unfare and never would have happened in the reverse.

The court may have called her a liar but ultimately she lost nothing by trying to lie. The court just moved forward making an assessment based on the truth.

[Matt]

The court may have called her a liar but ultimately she lost nothing by trying to lie. The court just moved forward making an assessment based on the truth.

Well, it seems to me that by putting that into the record, the court may be telling her that in the future, what she says won't be taken seriously.  So she may be - I hope - less likely to want to engage in legal battles.

[ForeverDad]

Well, the objection period ended Monday and today the case is no longer listed as ReOpened, it's Closed.

EDIT:  It's not an optimal order, but my lawyer convinced me that some of the reservations I had initially weren't really issues, so it's very close and it's definitely liveable.  It might even last.

Looks like I'm back into the post-court phase again.  Ex's lack of self-control in phone calls - as emphasized when played in court - has resulted in her sticking to texting.  She's never used emails or admitted to emails access (truth: she blocked my email address just hours before we separated way back in 2005) and starting with the new school year she won't talk on the phone.

My L said her L said the highlight of his career would be when this case ended.

[Matt]

Well, the objection period ended Monday and today the case is no longer listed as ReOpened, it's Closed.  Looks like I'm back into the post-court phase again.  Ex's lack of self-control in phone calls has resulted in her sticking to texting.  She's never used emails or admitted to using emails and starting with the new school year she won't talk on the phone.

My L said her L said the highlight of his career would be when this case ended.

And you have a good way to archive those texts?  So if you ever need them you'll have them?