Dealing with negativity

[Lilibeth]

This is something which really gets me down and off my centre of gravity. Practically every sentence my H utters has something negative in it. I was brought up on 'If you cannot say anything good about a person, or anything at all, just keep quiet.' So, his negativity, besides jarring my heart and head get all my strings into discord and what's worse i feel so exhausted listening to him. Everyone and everything is rubbish. I used to try and reason with him, but then that would set him off on another road about how non-discriminating i am. That would then lead to huge periods of self-doubt and all the sadness and disturbed feelings that go with self-doubt. Now i keep quiet, but feel terrible. I try to shut my mind off but the words creep in more often than not. I also find that if i have to keep a conversation going, at one point or the other it again lapses into negativity.

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[MissyM]

I relate to your post so much!  My dBPDh can be such a Debbie Downer.   The negativity is tough when they are in a downward mode.  I would be interested to see what method that is suggested in dealing with this.  Currently, I just acknowledge that he is having a bad day and give him a hug (like I would with my children).  That usually stops the spiral, at least for my dBPDh it does.  On the instances it doesn't, I usually disengage after that and go about my business.  He then has the choice to reach out to someone else to handle his problem or not.  I can't fix his problems and thinking for him.  I used to try and help with the mood but that never worked, it usually made him worse and I became the object of his negativity.

[joshbjoshb]

I think what OP is referring to is not negativity when he has a bad day, but constant ones. In other words, every thing in the world is a cause to be upset, because everyone and everything is not good.

I am dealing with exactly the same thing. And when speaking to a therapist - who specializes in BPD - he seems to wonder if it's not directly connected to BPD. He says that BPD has those crazy mood swings, but they also have happy moments, but she seems to be down all the time.

I'd say she has her mood swings also, except sometimes she is happy and criticize everyone, and sometimes she is not and curses everyone... .

The hardest part for me is the fact that I try to see everything in a positive light. I am big on trusting, and prefer living my life trusting many and thinking that every person has what to offer, than thinking that somehow everyone is just bad.

[MissyM]

I am not really talking about a bad day but that downward spiral that he gets into and globalizes the negativity.  My dBPDh has been diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder in the past.  He can get really upset that I won't join him in his negative view, so this is the best coping mechanism I have been able to come up with in therapy.  I have to not fall into my codependency of trying to fix his feelings, even though he tries to make me responsible for them.  Wondering what tactics others use?

He also takes antidepressants, it is much worse when he isn't on any.  So I am wondering if what you are referring to is depression?

[joshbjoshb]

That I can fully relate to... .

[Lilibeth]

Like joshbjoshb, i too tend to see only the positive side, and since i cannot take part in his negativity, i either get up at a suitable time and walk away or shift my mind to something else. The trouble is that i have to keep my face impassive, which is another challenge, because what i feel is always reflected on my face, and then it becomes worse. MissyM, i too don't join in his negativeness, and i understand what you mean when you say he gets upset at that, and that he tries to shift the blame. It's the same here too... . I used to break my head trying to fix all kinds of impossible negative situations that i knew were upsetting him, but it didn't help at all. Now, i'm trying this tactic of even if i know i can fix something i just don't. After some time (which is the hardest time for me) it passes off. The trouble with his negativeness is that even if he does see something positive, being negative is just part of him - it just gets turned into that. I do admit it is very tiring to deal with this, but i have started believing that i am important too

[bpbreakout]

I totally relate to this one, I think BPDw has extreme positive and negative thoughts at the same time, positive thoughts are directed towards the outside world though not always and no prizes for guessing where the negative ones end up 

[Theo41]

I have a hard time with negativity too. It's hard to listen to. One of the first things I learned is: make a life for yourself. Get active and involved in other things. Compartmentalize so u don't think about the pwBPD when u are working, golfing shopping, doing volunteer work you enjoy, go to 12 step meetings, etc. etc.  Have other relationships that are satifying.

This has been key to me having a happy successful life. If we wait for the pw BPD to get better, stop being negative, stop raging,etc. before we can be happy... . then we have made a tragic mistake.

They may never get better but u owe yourself a life worth living.

Another helpful thought is that most people have burdens to bear. And many, many are much worse than mine. THEO. P.S. I found that when my uBPDw started taking Anti-depressants, the negativity,raging ,etc. disappeared. Unfortunately she hated the side effects especially weight gain and stopped taking them. they were like a miracle drug for her and me.

[Lilibeth]

Theo41, thank you for telling me about compartmentalizing. Yes, this makes sense and this is what i am going to work towards. As it is what happens is that his negativeness leaves me feeling so paralysed, especially if it is a parting shot before he goes for work, that i have trouble concentrating on anything else after that as this replays on and on... . that is one of the reasons i feel worn out too. Yes, i did make this mistake for 26 years... . it's only now that i'm starting out on a new path... . am working towards a way of life where i too have a life worth living... . i have to work on this.

[waverider]

It may have something to do with resetting the benchmark, almost tall poppy syndrome. As they feel so unimpressed with themselves, by making a negative out of everyone else it makes their lot in the world not seem so bad and more "normal".

It is almost a coping method. If they can't live in the pleasure palace, no one will, and they might just burn it down just to make sure.

How to deal with it is to just build your own life which is not dependent on their view of the world. Disengage once the conversation starts heading down the doom and gloom path. I would'nt go into the whole challenge of trying to put a positive spin on things just to counter their view, otherwise you are just joining in.

You won't be able to isolate yourself from it completely, so don't think you are failing those times it bugs you.

[Wrongturn1]

The negativity certainly resonates with me and is something I find very difficult to deal with since I naturally tend to look for the positives in life.  Over the years, I have taken to jokingly calling my uBPDw ":)ebbie Downer" to point it out to her when the negative talk goes on and on and on.  She currently does not find this upsetting and actually refers to herself as ":)ebbie Downer" on a relatively frequent basis.

I like the idea of compartmentalizing, and I try to do this as much as possible, although cell phone calls and texting often make it difficult to escape.

[halfnelson]

Oh man, am I glad to not be the only one who has to deal with this! I am so sorry you have to go through it too, though 

I try so hard to get husband to stop being so hateful towards people. He seems to hate anyone who he deems 'rude' to him, but never accepts that he can be very rude to people and make them unwelcome.

What's worse is when something happens that needs sorting, like when the internet provider is down, and I have to explain to him that the way he talks to the people on the phone will NOT get our internet working.

Even watching TV shows, it's constant comments of 'she's got a weird face', 'He's probably a nasty so and so'.

There isn't much he is positive or happy about, and I just try to keep my spirits up as much as I can. People like this are often called 'psychic vampires' because they suck the life out of you with their constant negativity. He has very rare happy moments, but usually they are too fleeting to notice. If someone is nice to him at work, he's very happy and all is brilliant. If someone seems a bit off, it's all dreadful, and that person is a nasty c***, and maybe he should go back home. I have to explain to him that maybe that person had a bad day, and unless someone actually says you have annoyed them, don't assume that you have.

It can make you question if you are the cause of their misery, but don't ever let yourself think that. They were miserable to begin with, just did a good job of hiding it before sucking you in.

[joshbjoshb]

+1

Oh man, am I glad to not be the only one who has to deal with this! I am so sorry you have to go through it too, though 

I try so hard to get husband to stop being so hateful towards people. He seems to hate anyone who he deems 'rude' to him, but never accepts that he can be very rude to people and make them unwelcome.

What's worse is when something happens that needs sorting, like when the internet provider is down, and I have to explain to him that the way he talks to the people on the phone will NOT get our internet working.

Even watching TV shows, it's constant comments of 'she's got a weird face', 'He's probably a nasty so and so'.

There isn't much he is positive or happy about, and I just try to keep my spirits up as much as I can. People like this are often called 'psychic vampires' because they suck the life out of you with their constant negativity. He has very rare happy moments, but usually they are too fleeting to notice. If someone is nice to him at work, he's very happy and all is brilliant. If someone seems a bit off, it's all dreadful, and that person is a nasty c***, and maybe he should go back home. I have to explain to him that maybe that person had a bad day, and unless someone actually says you have annoyed them, don't assume that you have.

It can make you question if you are the cause of their misery, but don't ever let yourself think that. They were miserable to begin with, just did a good job of hiding it before sucking you in.

[waverider]

This is obviously a widespread sore point Lilibeth has brought up, and many of have to deal with this. It is probably one of the major causes of the depression often experienced by carers

Has anyone found any effective ways to counter the effect this has on us?

[ConstantGardener]

I feel like I have to aggressively pursue joy.  I have to make sure I talk to other people besides dBPDh... . so I remember what normal conversations are like. Sticking my earphones in and blasting cheerful dance music helps too  .

[waverider]

I feel like I have to aggressively pursue joy.  I have to make sure I talk to other people besides dBPDh... . so I remember what normal conversations are like. Sticking my earphones in and blasting cheerful dance music helps too  .

This is a good healthy approach but you need to be mindful of not doing it out of spite otherwise it just fuels it.

[Theo41]

I very much relate to the kick in the gut feeling one gets when he/she BPD slaps hard on the way out the door,or in my case, when I am going out the door. I have characteristics of codependency. Therefore when she's not ok I tend to be not ok.

What I have learned is that

1. much of what they say has no basis in truth.

2. Frequently they are projecting their own issues onto us.

3. What someone else's opinion of me is, is none of my business.

4. I have to talk with someone else and formulate my own opinion of my actions.

As time has gone by I am more able to think clearly and realize that I am a good person who can make mistakes. It's human. She is a good person too, but a sick person as well who specializes in trying to make others feel bad/quilty. I'm not buying the bad stuff anymore.

I get into motion on the next right thing. Listen to music, tackle a project, meet with a friend, anything except sitting and feeling the pain of invalid accusations or behavior. I can't always succeed, but mostly I can if I engage in something healthy that can hold my attention.

[Lilibeth]

You  know, Theo41, I totally relate to everything you've said. I also get Waverider's point. I somehow used to think that not being happy was a day wasted, and it was never going to come back - this, in turn, used to set me panicking, almost as if i wanted the day to come back, and i would rework it - work very hard to get the happiness back... . i used to beg and plead with my husband that we should be happy, and instead of the negativity lessening, it would only increase... . and go out of control. Music would help me too, but only after the panic left me, otherwise it all just seemed to pile up and become unmanageable. I'm also trying to get out of the 'day wasted if it is not a happy day' state.

Another thing that hit me was that i should not to take him seriously. This, at first, came as a huge blow because i thought it would corrode the very foundation of the relationship. But, i was in such a state that i felt it wouldn't hurt to try this. So the next time the negativity came on, i forcefully told myself 'i am not taking you or what you are saying seriously' - went on and on saying this to myself till he stopped. And, guess what, i felt that the negativeness had not left any residue at all... . it had all gone. I realized that one of the greatest mistakes i made was to have taken him seriously... . answered all his negativeness sincerely and tried to do something about it, followed all his instructions which caused dreadful pain and damage for me... . and all for nought, 'cos he wouldn't even remember he had been negative after a bit, and, in fact, would behave as if everything was normal. In fact, he would even tell my daughter that it was i who was causing the disturbance in the home. This would leave me feeling confused and small and worse, i would feel as if my daughter too was looking at me with blame... . this was the hardest to bear, and even now i wonder if it has spoilt her mind.

Negativeness has a way not only of spoiling the mind of the person at whom it is being directed, it also ruins the atmosphere of the home. Now, because i am learning to force my mind not to take him seriously, his switching doesn't cause me to become confused or upset. It is also keeping the peacefulness of the home... . As i use this technique more and more, and with each time it is becoming easier to use. Best is that i am not losing my mind... . I'm also realizing that not taking him seriously, is helping me to realize which situations are worth pursuing and which should just be left as is... .

'build your own life which is not dependent on their view of the world,' is sound advice from Waverider. Stick with our own positiveness, absolutely, as a first step to building our own life... . we must never change that to suit our BPDs... .

[waverider]

We are currently going through a phase of negativity increasing as the day goes on. Building to a peak around 7pm or so.

Yesterdays issue, which I mentioned earlier, was based on no longer wanting to attend radiotherapy (aggressive stage 3C breast cancer). Previously I would have argued and tried to talk sense into her and cheer her up. That would cause everyone to have a miserable night and she would be even more negative to counter my efforts.

Instead I stated that I did not think it was a great idea and left it at that. This morning she completely revised her idea. Joining in the misery would have only added to the drama and given it a focus.

If someone is feeling an emotion, trying to say they shouldn't feel it, is simply invalidating it. So they fight you over it. You may feel the facts don't justify the reaction, but the reality is the reaction is there.

So

~Telling someone they shouldn't feel the way they do=invalidation

~Telling someone they are a miserable person=reinforcing their own feeling> feeling becomes entrenched

~Ignoring their mood completely= you are not paying attention> they try harder to "sell" their mood

~Telling someone you can see they are in a down mood, then leaving them to it and getting on with your stuff=you have acknowledged them, and left them to self soothe as there is no other reward for them if they dont.> If they don't you are not dragged down as a consequence, you dont feel like its another day wasted


Having said that keeping out of it is not easy, or natural, to do. It is a human nature to be a rescuer but it often does more harm than good.

[empath]

When my pwBPD goes into negative mode, it is hard to validate their feelings because their perception of things is so different from reality. I usually keep my remarks to a minimum because if I try to insert reality or try to push them to think about their own reactions to possible negative situations, it doesn't go well. It isn't my issue to resolve or do anything about, so I let them be in their emotions.

[Lilibeth]

One of the most difficult things i face in the negativeness of my husband is when he decides what i am thinking. I have an expressive face though i have been trying through the 26 years of our marriage, and still am trying, to make my face as deadpan as i can. He just decides, suddenly, in the middle of a conversation, that i am (note the 'am' thinking like this or that - and its always something negative -  when what he is saying is the last thing on my mind, it just gets me... . and gets to me very, very badly... . i tend to go right off the track then... . feelings of unworthiness flood me as he goes on about how my thoughts are so bad etc etc etc, and therefore i must be the worst person on earth... . i find it so difficult to disassociate at this point, and the whole thing just becomes one big mass inside of me... . With my head i know i have to disengage, but in my heart i feel totally shattered. Then it becomes a cycle - i clam up, and that just stokes his negativeness and anger... . Of course, after a while he forgets and gets on a new track, while i am still trying to put myself together... .

[waverider]

One of the most difficult things i face in the negativeness of my husband is when he decides what i am thinking. I have an expressive face though i have been trying through the 26 years of our marriage, and still am trying, to make my face as deadpan as i can. He just decides, suddenly, in the middle of a conversation, that i am (note the 'am' thinking like this or that - and its always something negative -  when what he is saying is the last thing on my mind, it just gets me... . and gets to me very, very badly... . i tend to go right off the track then... . feelings of unworthiness flood me as he goes on about how my thoughts are so bad etc etc etc, and therefore i must be the worst person on earth... . i find it so difficult to disassociate at this point, and the whole thing just becomes one big mass inside of me... . With my head i know i have to disengage, but in my heart i feel totally shattered. Then it becomes a cycle - i clam up, and that just stokes his negativeness and anger... . Of course, after a while he forgets and gets on a new track, while i am still trying to put myself together... .

Thats just classic projection of his thoughts into your ownership. That way he can effectively criticize his own thoughts without actually owning the responsibility for them. A kind of self exorcism if you like

[Lilibeth]

Thank you for explaining this, Waverider. Would disengaging help here - kind of like a turn off to what he is saying when he does this? At the same time i would need to consciously do something to protect myself and my thoughts... .

[waverider]

At the same time i would need to consciously do something to protect myself and my thoughts... .

This comes naturally as your growing sense of self develops. It does take a while though.

Things like this still prickle me, I wont deny that, but it becomes easier to let it go.

Disengaging is a useful response for things that are heading down a unhealthy path, but as you know, not everything is that serious many things are just annoying little jibes that are simply best glossed over. You can't go throwing disengaging and boundaries at every little thing ,or you may never speak... you can't fight everything

[Lilibeth]

Thanks for that, Waverider. I do feel stronger after having joined this family. Yes, it is a long way to go, because i still, sometimes, find myself in the 'getting pulled back' situation, and then i tell myself no, i have to try this or that (from something i have read here), and it is beginning to help. I copy down all the techniques that i am finding here for ready reference, and reassurance.

[waverider]

Thanks for that, Waverider. I do feel stronger after having joined this family. Yes, it is a long way to go, because i still, sometimes, find myself in the 'getting pulled back' situation, and then i tell myself no, i have to try this or that (from something i have read here), and it is beginning to help. I copy down all the techniques that i am finding here for ready reference, and reassurance.

Dont be in a rush to do everything at once, just pick some important issues, address them and then consolidate any progress. Otherwise you wont get any peace.

[Lilibeth]

Yes Waverider, that is what i have to do - you're right. Thank you for cautioning me.