Disowned by grandmother for going NC with mother

[Our abuse recovery guide]

The title pretty much says it all.  I recently had my first child and everything came to a head over his baptism.  When I didn't make the whole weekend about mother she waifed out and I had just had enough.  My son deserves more, you know?  So out it all came.  I told her that we have an unhealthy relationship dynamic and that I agreed with my brother who said she has been abusive in the past and that part of the unhealthy dynamic was manipulation and abuse and until she could see that that I needed space.  She didn't understand and was "very hurt", which was, of course, just more manipulation trying to guilt me into backing down.  I didn't.

About a week after her extinction burst ended I get a thank you card from my grandmother.  I had sent my grandpa a Father's day card and sent them a thank you for the baby gift they sent along with some pictures of the baby.  Inside the pastel thank you covered front was this message:

"Thank you for the lovely pictures.  This is the last you'll be hearing from me.  I'm just sick and sad over yours and your brother's actions. 

Grandma

Are you perfect?

Don't you make mistakes?"

When I went NC with mother I considered writing my grandparents to let them know that I still cared about them and that my relationship with my mother had become unhealthy.  I wasn't planning on going into detail because, frankly, they don't need to know and I didn't want to be accused of bad-mouthing mother.  I didn't do this because mother waited over a month when my brother went NC to tell them and I wanted to be respectful and let her tell them on her time. 

Once I got this note I reconsidered sending them a note explaining my side but my husband and I can't decide if there's really any point to doing so.  We've wondered a bit about my grandmother's mental health from time to time.  She once gave me a book where grandparents write in their childhood experiences.  What should have been a nice keepsake was a description of her abused childhood (mother was abusive, dad was an alcoholic - they could possibly be the source of my mother's BPD if they were abusive to her as well but I don't know) and an ode to how wonderful my mother is.  I eventually had to toss it because having it in my house really bothered me.  I think grandpa may know something is wrong with my mother, but clearly, grandma is drinking the kool aid.

Would you respond and explain your side?  Just leave it be?  Continue to treat them the way you normally would and had planned before the note (for example, sending cards/gifts for birthdays, etc?)?  Or just continue being disowned?  It sounds terrible but they're quite old and I rarely saw them (only with mother) so from a practical staNPDoint, not much would change by being cut off from them.

It's just sad that they believe the word of an abuser over 30 years of experience with me and 36 with my brother and are willing to sacrifice their relationship with two of their great grandchildren over it.

[LeftyA]

The title pretty much says it all.  I recently had my first child and everything came to a head over his baptism.  When I didn't make the whole weekend about mother she waifed out and I had just had enough.  My son deserves more, you know?  So out it all came.  I told her that we have an unhealthy relationship dynamic and that I agreed with my brother who said she has been abusive in the past and that part of the unhealthy dynamic was manipulation and abuse and until she could see that that I needed space.  She didn't understand and was "very hurt", which was, of course, just more manipulation trying to guilt me into backing down.  I didn't.

About a week after her extinction burst ended I get a thank you card from my grandmother.  I had sent my grandpa a Father's day card and sent them a thank you for the baby gift they sent along with some pictures of the baby.  Inside the pastel thank you covered front was this message:

"Thank you for the lovely pictures.  This is the last you'll be hearing from me.  I'm just sick and sad over yours and your brother's actions. 

Grandma

Are you perfect?

Don't you make mistakes?"

When I went NC with mother I considered writing my grandparents to let them know that I still cared about them and that my relationship with my mother had become unhealthy.  I wasn't planning on going into detail because, frankly, they don't need to know and I didn't want to be accused of bad-mouthing mother.  I didn't do this because mother waited over a month when my brother went NC to tell them and I wanted to be respectful and let her tell them on her time. 

Once I got this note I reconsidered sending them a note explaining my side but my husband and I can't decide if there's really any point to doing so.  We've wondered a bit about my grandmother's mental health from time to time.  She once gave me a book where grandparents write in their childhood experiences.  What should have been a nice keepsake was a description of her abused childhood (mother was abusive, dad was an alcoholic - they could possibly be the source of my mother's BPD if they were abusive to her as well but I don't know) and an ode to how wonderful my mother is.  I eventually had to toss it because having it in my house really bothered me.  I think grandpa may know something is wrong with my mother, but clearly, grandma is drinking the kool aid.

Would you respond and explain your side?  Just leave it be?  Continue to treat them the way you normally would and had planned before the note (for example, sending cards/gifts for birthdays, etc?)?  Or just continue being disowned?  It sounds terrible but they're quite old and I rarely saw them (only with mother) so from a practical staNPDoint, not much would change by being cut off from them.

It's just sad that they believe the word of an abuser over 30 years of experience with me and 36 with my brother and are willing to sacrifice their relationship with two of their great grandchildren over it.

[P.F.Change]

 

How sad that your grandmother would prefer to punish you than to know her great-grandchild. It seems to me that she is way too invested in her fantasy family to care what you think or why you made the choices you made. I don't think explaining would change anything. If she cared about your point of view, she'd have called to ask you about it. Instead, she chose emotional blackmail.

What feels safe to you moving forward? Do you need your grandmother's approval?

Wishing you peace,

PF

[Sasha026]

I kept my mouth shut for 59 years about my mother's abuse. She just recently died and I have absolutely no family members due to her poison.

Do you really want your mother to "define" you? Don't do what I did - speak up. It really has nothing to do with the relationship or approval, it has to do with who you are but what you will look like through her eyes - over and over again. I let my mother's word stand all of my life and said nothing because I didn't want to bother with the messiness of explaining what she did. I didn't want to constantly keep defending myself. I knew who I was and for the most part, I just couldn't be bothered explaining it to others. I should have spoken up. Now, everyone who remembers me will remember what she said and not who I was and how good I was to her.

Do what is comfortable for you but if I were you, I would send "grandmother" a note saying that you would not have made your choice unless it was the only one you had. Time after time you had asked your mother for her cooperation, but she declined so you have no choice but to have a trial separation. Also, it should be obvious to her or anyone else that children do not normally walk away from a loving mother - something must be wrong. I think I would also include a small paragraph regarding the nasty snipe about being perfect (see - she already is looking at you with the poison glasses).

It's your decision, though. Good luck with this, it can be so hard.

[Deb]

I wish I had spoken up when my sister got me disowned by our grandmother. My sister told her horrible lies and I could have countered them. But I was hurt, angry and believed that my grandmother should know the truth. I did not speak to her for the last 5 years of her life. If I had it to do over, I would call her and refute every single lie my sister told her. Others knew the truth, I found out later, but were waiting for me to speak up. I know you are hurt by this. It is hurtful to have someone disown you due to lies.

[LeftyA]

Thanks for the responses.  I agree, P.F. that explaining probably would do no good in terms of changing her mind but Sasha and Deb, you make good points about not protecting mother and not letting her dialogue be the only thing my grandma hears.  I guess it's kinda like writing the NC letter to the pwBPD in your life; you know it won't do any good in terms of improving the relationship, but it feels good to be heard (or at least put the words out there, we all know they don't ever actually hear us).

It just kinda felt like I couldn't win.  If I stopped communicating with my grandparents then I was playing into what I'm sure mother told them; that I'm the monster and cut her and them off.  If I tell them the truth then I'm badmouthing her.  I guess I need to walk the same line I did in my NC letter(s) where I respectfully state facts.  No need to go into specifics or be emotional (no need to JADE for her either), but just let them know that there's obviously more to the story than what mother is telling them.  

Deb, I see your point about wishing you had spoken up and I go back and forth about that myself.  On the one hand, they're my grandparents.  On the other hand, they took mother at her word even though it runs counter to everything they've ever experienced with me.  I wouldn't take that crap from anyone else, so why should I explain myself to them?  It's her willingness to believe the poison that really pisses me off and makes me want to tell her to kiss certain areas of my rear region.  

This is also a mini version of the 'do I care what other people think' dilemma.  Growing up with a parent with BPD I was raised to believe that everyone was judging me since that's what mother was always doing.  That's part of why it took me so long to get to a point of NC - I was worried I'd be judged by random people for cutting my mother out of my life (and I technically didn't, I gave her the choice to get help and requested she give me space until she did, it's her choice to not do so)  Getting to a point where I don't care is a goal of mine.  But these aren't random people who may not understand, these are people that have been a part of my life for 31 years.  

In summary.  Argh, I hate this crap.

[Cheshire]

LeftyA

I visited with my grandma (uBPDm's mother) just prior to her 90th birthday because the actual celebration was at uBPDm's house and I had maintained NC for just over a year by then. She waited till we were alone before lecturing me that "God calls us to forgive," etc... . The culture of shame-to-control, and denial clearly came from her and was used ad infinitum by her daughter on us kids. I never saw it before in grandma. Clearly, uBPDm had been whispering (or shouting) I'm her ear, but I also saw that she believed her words fully. I saw that the source of evil I had rejected by going NC with uBPDm was sitting daintily on a frilly easy chair in front of me. I wished her a happy 90th birthday and made my excuse to politely leave.

I guess my thoughts in this are that BPD doesn't just appear from nowhere to poison a single generation and then disappear. It replicates in family systems and spreads like a virus through generations. I got lucky to realize this truth in time.

If you feel like the positive aspects of continued contact with your grandparents outweigh the negative, then making the effort to dispel your BPDm's poison isn't wasted. If not, don't for a minute let guilt keep you in their FOG. Good luck in your journey.

-Cheshire

[Deb]

Deb, I see your point about wishing you had spoken up and I go back and forth about that myself.  On the one hand, they're my grandparents.  On the other hand, they took mother at her word even though it runs counter to everything they've ever experienced with me.  I wouldn't take that crap from anyone else, so why should I explain myself to them?  It's her willingness to believe the poison that really pisses me off and makes me want to tell her to kiss certain areas of my rear region.

I one hundred percent get this. I did not contact my grandmpother because I was so angry that she would believe all that crap without talking to me about it. Plus I was going through a rough time. The guy I had been engaged to got into drugs and tried to strangle me when I broke things off. I had attempted to break it off sooner and my sister and I went camping with some people and she KNEW that this guy would be there. Than, because he wouldn't stay away from me, she abandoned me there and went and told our grandmother that I was "shacking up"  with him.   Interestingly, years later, she claimed that our grandmother told her not to marry guys "just shack up with them". Ummm, I don't think so, not after she blasted me as immoral for doing that. Even though it was a lie. So there I was, going through bad stuff and my sister sees the need to stab me further in the back. I was so hurt and angry that I wouldn't say anything to my grandmother about the lies. I honestly don't think it would have made a big difference. But I still wish I had said something. This is my thought. For you, you have to do what works best for you.

[Orange]

This is my thought. For you, you have to do what works best for you.

100% dead on. I've been NC with my uBPDm for nearly 3 years now. The longer you go NC the more guilt they try to give you. But it's most important to focus on YOU, because it's YOUR life, not theirs.

[LeftyA]

I did write a draft of a letter and sent it to my husband to see what he thought but I can't quite muster the effort to send it to them.  Chesire is right, my mom's BPD didn't just appear out of nowhere, and the more we thought about it, the more we realized that something was amiss with grandma too.  To go from sweet stereotypical grandma to that note so quickly proves it.  I know she grew up amid abuse and alcoholism so it shouldn't be surprising.  Losing my grandpa sucks though, although I have no idea if he knows that she sent that or not as it was only signed by her.  I may still continue to send him cards and whatnot since I have no issue with him (although that feels somewhat passive aggressive to me).

Interestingly enough, when I was in the process of going NC with my mom (and I didn't cut her off, I gave her a choice to go to therapy so we could fix our relationship or to give me space, she choose the later, but makes it seem as though I just cut her off), she sent a special email asking me not to cut off my grandparents as they would be devastated.  Yea... apparently not. 

I may send the letter one day.  I may not.  But anyone who just disregards 30 years of experience with me to take mother at her word probably isn't worth my time and would not ultimately be a healthy presence in my life. 

[BlueCat]

 

I get where you are coming from. It probably won't help. But it might. And you don't know til you do it. Or maybe you know it won't help but it will help you to say what you have to say instead of bottling it up. So many pros and cons and really, the answer is never black and white.

It also helps if you do respond if you can do so calmly. I have trouble with that one   An angry, emotional response never helps anyone, especially the one giving it.  

But anyone who just disregards 30 years of experience with me to take mother at her word probably isn't worth my time and would not ultimately be a healthy presence in my life.  

That is what I've come to realize with my family of origin. If, by now, they know me so little that they believe the lies that are being spread then they are not worth the effort. Let them think what they want.

[DesertChild]

This is my personal story and my personal choices, which might not work for you or your situation, but something like on the other side.

When I broke with my parents, my Aunt and Grandmother went into serious denial. I was determined to not make a drama out of it.  I chose, personally, not to feed into it because my mom likes the drama--it makes her feel better. And I rather not feed into negative behavior (Which I was told not to do). When I told them a sample of why, it hurt doubly when they conveniently "forgot" it. (Cognitive dissonance for them.) I told them several times, but it was clear that anything sad would be summarily forgotten.

If the thing you want from your grandmother is acceptance, you might not get it--the actions that she takes won't be determined by a letter. If you want to have your emotions heard--you might not get it. They might try to forget, and may even blame you anyway. This might be harder to bare than keeping silent.

If you are expecting to relieve your anxiety to a wall and get nothing back, then you might want to consider if it's really your grandmother you want to convince. Think it over carefully--is it yourself? Is it your grandmother? Be prepared for the repercussions.

I am willing to say it and say it to people close to me, but I have to admit hearing someone that you like and love deny and "forget" it just brings loads of triggering that you may not like. Yes, it's normal to want love back and acceptance from someone that you love, but we can't control them.

After seeing a family feud in my own family which I couldn't understand, I stopped talking about it. I'm still taking the blame for the NC, because it's easier to blame me. But I'm also setting boundaries and making it a lot more clear that NC means NC, even if it upsets others and they try to forget. Also by standing up for myself, others also will stand up for you. And I think that's a whole lot more important from this end than gaining acceptance for the past.

I also found peace that I can love my parents in my own way, delight in the good things they did for me, but still recognize their bad behavior and how toxic it is. (Which I think confuses my Aunt and Grandmother.) But I know this peace isn't the answer for everyone.

Even after that, do what's best for you and your own emotional well being, but remember that you can't control other people's behavior. Good luck!

[educator]

From my personal experience, with my uBPD MIL, it did not help at all when my DH tried to tell his brother his side of the story.  In the beginning, when things were rocky between MIL and DH, DH called his brother to tell him what was happening and his brother did listen.  Then MIL called BIL and she turned him against both myself and DH.  BIL has had minimal contact with DH since MIL went NC with us in January of 2012.  I think sometimes people just believe what they want to hear. 

It might be worth a try though.  It never hurts to try.  My DH never really badmouthed his mom to his brother... . just tried to tell his side.  The conversation would quite frequently come back to it was all DH's fault because he was married to me and I turned him against his family, even though that is not true. 

[LeftyA]

This is the letter I am considering sending.

Grandma,

After receiving your "thank you" note last month, I thought long and hard about how to respond.  You seem to have made up your mind about how things are and I struggled with how to and if I should tell my side of the story.  First off, know that notes like that to people you're supposed to care about are never okay as far as I'm concerned.  That was a hateful note to write to anyone, much less your granddaughter, and it was very upsetting to receive.  It's very upsetting to realize that someone who has known you for your entire life is so quick to believe that you're a terrible person.

I have no way of knowing what Mom has told you, and honestly, it doesn't really matter.  My relationship with her has been marred by years of dysfunction, manipulation, and abuse.  I won't go into specifics, but the version she's presented to you is far from what I experienced.  I finally reached a point where I knew that continuing in the same patterns we had my entire life was not healthy for me or my family.  Having my son made me realize that he deserved something better than a mother who was anxious anytime she had to interact with her mother - so afraid of saying or doing the wrong thing and facing manipulation and venom.  I needed to do what was necessary to protect my family and heal myself.  This has been a long time coming and I finally reached a point where I was strong enough to stand up for myself and my family. 

I did nothing to Mom.  She is not a victim here.  I gave her a choice; seek help for the underlying issues and illness that cause her to manipulate and abuse or give me space to heal.  She choose not to address her issues.  If, someday, she chooses to get help and is able to understand and treat me the way I deserve to be treated, I would consider reconnecting.  However, until she understands how and why she acts this way and is able to change her behavior towards me and my family, I cannot continue to subject myself and them to our unhealthy dynamic.  Bro and SIL gave her the same choice.  In both instances, she choose not to seek help and we responded accordingly.  It should tell you something when two successful, kind, compassionate, thoughtful, intelligent, adult children reach a point where they realize it's healthier to discontinue contact with a parent.  It was not an easy thing to do, but it was necessary. There was never an intention to hurt anyone.  We wish her no harm and hope she finds happiness.

Our relationship with you and Grandpa has nothing to do with our relationship with her unless you guys make it an issue.  Our goal was never to hurt anyone.  Our goal is to protect ourselves and DS.  Where we go from here is up to you guys.  We're willing to move past the note because we love you.  It's up to you if you're willing to try to understand our actions and continue to have a relationship with us. I get that she's your daughter so I understand if you choose her over us but know that you can love us all.  I certainly don't expect my relationship with her to impact your relationship with her just as I had hoped it wouldn't impact our relationship with you and Grandpa.  I understand though, if you feel you can't continue to have a relationship with me, DH, and DS.

The choice is yours,

LeftyA

[Marcia]

I'd send it for your own peace of mind. It will probably just stir them up and cause another lash out, but at least you will have had your say.

It is so frustrating, but the sooner you say goodby to all the unhealthy drama, the sooner you can have a pleasant, not perfect but not crazy life... . which you definitely deserve!

Good luck and stay strong!

[LeftyA]

I did end up sending the letter.  Well, a letter.  This one to be exact:

Grandma,

After receiving your note I thought long and hard about if I should and how to

respond.  I've waited because I didn't want to respond from a place of hurt and

anger and your letter has kept me in both places for quite some time.  However,

I felt that you should have all of the information before you decide to cut

people out of your life.

My relationship with Mom has been unhealthy and strained for a long time due to

her behavior which has ranged from emotionally manipulative to abusive.  Having

my son made me realize that I did not want this unhealthy dynamic to be passed

down to him.  He deserves better than that, my whole family deserves better, I

deserve better.  So I gave Mom a choice; seek help for her underlying issues or

give me space to heal and raise my son in a healthy environment.  It was the

same choice that Bro and SIL gave her last year.  She made the choice to

ignore her issues at the expense of her family.  

We had hoped, naively perhaps, that our relationship with her wouldn't impact

our relationship with you guys.  We want you to know that you don't have to

choose between us.  As far as we're concerned you can have both.  Mom is your

daughter, we understand that and would expect you to be loyal to her and don't

consider that to be a slight against us.  We can put this behind us and continue

to have a relationship if that's what you want.  The decision is up to you.  

However, we will not discuss our relationship with Mom and will not tolerate any

attempts to guilt or cajole us into going back on our decision.  We understand

though, if you feel you cannot have all of us in your life.

LeftyA

Ok, I did make a few small changes, adding in that we loved her and grandpa and that we wish mom happiness.  In short order I received 4 pages of crazy spewed back at me the jist of which was that she (my grandma) had been abused by her mother and alcoholic dad but she still mourned the loss of her mother so I should just take it like a good little girl.  She demanded examples of this so-called emotional abuse (yea, right, so mom can deny them all and I can be accused to talking about her behind her back?).  I didn't reply because it was very clear that my gma must also be a borderline.  At least I know where mom got it from.

This Christmas I then received a "lovely" card from gma.  It featured the phrase grevious sin twice, repeatedly asked if I was a Christian (I'm not, mostly due to crap like this... . ), and invoked the memory of my dead fil.  Apparently my brother and I are no longer her favorites (I wonder if her other kids know she liked us best... . ) and preemptive blame for my mother's death and theirs since they rely on her for so much.  Merry Christmas to you too, Grandma.  Again, I haven't responded for obvious reasons.  At least that one didn't make me cry.

My grandpa's birthday is coming up.  I'm not sure what he knows about all of this.  He's mostly blind so he's at their mercy when it comes to sharing of cards and whatnot.  I wasn't going to send a card because I didn't want to stir the pot but I've started to reconsider that.  Why should my mom and grandma and their hatred of me dictate my actions towards him?  You have to be pretty low to send a nastygram in response to a birthday card.  I'd keep it short and sweet, just a 'happy birthday, hope you have a nice day, we love you' message and wouldn't include any pictures of my son since he can't see them anyway and I'm sure they'd be perceived as manipulation of my mother and grandma.  If I were a betting woman I'd bet that they wouldn't even share the card with him but that's on them, not me.  I'd just feel bad not acknowledging him on his birthday.  He's in his 90's and has had a lot of health problems (apparently he was in the hospital around the time of the nasty Christmas card but no one told me despite me asking my mom to do so).  I don't want him to think we don't care.  It's possible that he feels the same way that mom and grandma do but my gut tells me otherwise.

Thoughts?

[lucyhoneychurch]

My definition of NC, LeftyA, and I so so sympathize because I had no grandmother berating me about no contact with my abusive mother - her parents died in '50s, but I have been told my maternal grandmother was my mother ramped up quite a few notches by cousins old enough to remember her.

My definition of NC, sorry... . is you don't have contact with the abuser (in this case your mother) and you don't have contact with guilt-throwers and manipulaters (in this case her mother your grandma who isn't just flea-bitten with traits but running wide open uBPD from what you wrote).

You cut off ALL contact.

My thought is that if you send grandpa a probably well-deserved birthday card, and wish him well, it starts the dance up again. Your grandmother proved her illness back in July with the note on that card and again with this onslaught of crap with religious garbage heaped on top for good measure. I am as well pretty much agnostic now. I will go in one church in the area to light candles or attend Mass for the music and positivity but everything else there seems a joke to me.

Hurtful comments cloaked in religious innuendo and damnation type references make me ill.

My advice at exactly 20 yrs older than you is to just *stop.*

It's okay about your granddad's birthday. I have a feeling he would either not get card or it would incite the emotional riot of abuse they are both itching to bring to the fray.

The ball now being in your court with their obvious over the top insane actions means you can bow out gracefully for your own satisfaction not theirs.

Here's a nice substitute for sending a card to him - get a box together of goodies for local pound puppies and kitties, offer it up in his honor... . dump a big jar of change in your local Ronald McDonald box they serve families really hurting in times of illness and calamity - it's in his honor. do something like that in your heart that will ameliorate your need to contact him.

Red flags up all over about opening that door again.

You resonate with strength, very hard-earned I can tell.

I just told a dear friend but someone who is so uBPD'd it's unreal that our friendship is pretty much done (this is a man, orphaned at 18 months, raised by brutal old maid aunt school teacher) and that what I thought was a 2-way street turned into all uphill one-way for me.

I know this means I will see him as we live around the corner from each other, he knows my grown kids, he drives by my house every day sometimes several times for his farming and equipment needs. It's on him how he responds.

What I'm trying to say is - evidence of someone's selfishness or disordered thinking is really an odd type of favor the cosmos/universe send us as it says, "Hey, look out for yourself, no one else is going to."

I am so grateful your hubby in this with you.

That'd be my advice - wish grandpa good things in your heart. I think there are connections that rise above this awful existence and transcend the physical - maybe he will sense your love from afar. I hope so.

Have a safe healthy 2014.

[LeftyA]

Thank you for your thoughts, Lucy.  I can certainly understand that point of view.  On the other hand, is it letting my mother and grandmother win by allowing them to alter my relationship with my grandfather?  Like you said, they're just waiting for me to do something.  If I don't send a card I'm the terrible person they think I am.  If I do send a card I'm opening the door for another outburst.  But I don't think I care.  What's grandma going to do?  Send another card full of crazy?  Great, I'll add it to the file in case my mother ever tried to pursue legal action for grandparent rights.  Another affirmation of the fact that it's them, not me?  I can deal with that.  Thankfully, I'm at a point where the words don't hurt anymore, they reaffirm that my decision was the right thing to protect my family.  There's really nothing they can *do* to me as they all live 4+ hours away and won't drive near my home.

[lucyhoneychurch]

Oh yes, this debate within myself over and over at times too.

And if my contact with that dear loved one was something I needed as much as that loved one (your grandfather) it was a go. 

You will make his day brighter.  You cannot control if they don't give him card. But you will know that you did all that was possibly within your power to do.

I am sending you a thumbs up for having his contentment/joy as your guide.

That is really sweet.

And something you'd look back later on as a good thing.