Contact at last -----HELP

[Parents! Get help here!]

OK, quick background. dBPDD, age 27, living across the country from me. High functioning, about to graduate from university, self-supporting, expecting to go to grad school, brilliant , articulate and funny.

No contact since I visited her in July, and she feels I did not do my part in forcing her siblings to accept her. Last month I wrote her a validation letter as per Valerie Porr. In it I said that I had been using the last months to understand and learn more about BPD, and try and understand her feelings. The 2 major issues for her are that she feels she was abused, and she was in foster care for 4 years in her teens for the safety of her siblings.I used SET to talk about those things, acknowledge the huge pain of abandonment and fear she must have felt. I did my best to be genuine, acknowledge her feelings and apologize for my mistakes.

Today I received a response, which I have no clue how to respond to,. Wish I could just copy the whole thing for you, but here is the gist.

First, the reason we don't have a relationship is because of my choices. We can have a relationship when I am ready to observe her boundaries.My letter did not give her the impression I have tried to change anything-it was full of "emotionally manipulative language" and did not seem to be from my heart.She thinks it would be in my best interest to look for healing from whatever caused me to be this way, so she is adding bi-weekly therapy sessions for me as part of her conditions for re-engagement.It is clear to her that I am harboring enormous pain and will be unable to connect with anyone until I deal with it. ( My husband and other kids would be very surprised to hear this). She says it is never too late to heal.

2) As a parent, I must mediate between her and her siblings and make tangible progress in that area. Two of her siblings will not have anything to do with her.

3) She must get equal treatment in the family-for her that means if she is under attack from someone, I must defend her the same way I would anyone else.

4)I must take responsibility to name my mistakes and make amends. Apparently my "hiding behind false apologies as a manipulation tactic " was the most painful part of my letter.

Her Conclusion- this is what she needs in order to have a relationship with me. The price of my not doing so is no relationship.I can attend her graduation as it is a public event, but I cannot see her while I am there.


OK everyone-what the heck do I do with this?

[co.jo]

OK, quick background. dBPDD, age 27, living across the country from me. High functioning, about to graduate from university, self-supporting, expecting to go to grad school, brilliant , articulate and funny.

No contact since I visited her in July, and she feels I did not do my part in forcing her siblings to accept her. Last month I wrote her a validation letter as per Valerie Porr. In it I said that I had been using the last months to understand and learn more about BPD, and try and understand her feelings. The 2 major issues for her are that she feels she was abused, and she was in foster care for 4 years in her teens for the safety of her siblings.I used SET to talk about those things, acknowledge the huge pain of abandonment and fear she must have felt. I did my best to be genuine, acknowledge her feelings and apologize for my mistakes.

Today I received a response, which I have no clue how to respond to,. Wish I could just copy the whole thing for you, but here is the gist.

First, the reason we don't have a relationship is because of my choices. We can have a relationship when I am ready to observe her boundaries.My letter did not give her the impression I have tried to change anything-it was full of "emotionally manipulative language" and did not seem to be from my heart.She thinks it would be in my best interest to look for healing from whatever caused me to be this way, so she is adding bi-weekly therapy sessions for me as part of her conditions for re-engagement.It is clear to her that I am harboring enormous pain and will be unable to connect with anyone until I deal with it. ( My husband and other kids would be very surprised to hear this). She says it is never too late to heal.

2) As a parent, I must mediate between her and her siblings and make tangible progress in that area. Two of her siblings will not have anything to do with her.

3) She must get equal treatment in the family-for her that means if she is under attack from someone, I must defend her the same way I would anyone else.

4)I must take responsibility to name my mistakes and make amends. Apparently my "hiding behind false apologies as a manipulation tactic " was the most painful part of my letter.

Her Conclusion- this is what she needs in order to have a relationship with me. The price of my not doing so is no relationship.I can attend her graduation as it is a public event, but I cannot see her while I am there.


OK everyone-what the heck do I do with this?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

I think that is up to you to decide some of these request... .

1) I thnk you could suggest counseling for the both of you together... . that really might be a better use of your time.

2) Yes I think you should offer equal support but you should avoid being put in the middle... . I think you can tell her that you want to stay out of the relationship she has with her siblings... . I think that would be a good boundary for you to set.

3) I think a better response would be to end the discussion between who ever is being attacked... . if you remain neutural then you won't have to fight battles for everyone

4) Well I am not sure what this means... . if she has some list some where she should state what she is talking about.

I think going to her graduation is something you should do... . you can make yourself available if she wants to see you but saying something like we will be having dinner at such and such a place and you are welcomed to join us... . here is something someone more wise than me said on this site... . I keep it printed by my computer... .

It is not within my power to orchestrate the outcome... . I can only try to creat opportunities.

I think this is a start to communication even if it is not a great one... . she don't think is was from the heart so I don't know what you do with that except to restate how you feel using SET... . if she is unable to except what you say I am not sure there is anything you can do.

[lever.]

I' m pleased to hear that you have had some response co-jo.

I agree that it might be helpful to suggest some sort of joint counselling or mediation but not to rule out individual counselling.

Would it help to be radically genuine and tell her that it is difficult to influence other family members and that you would like to try to start by working on your own relationship with her. I might even explain about small steps and that the rest may follow. Also would she accept validation of her possibly feeling that her siblings are more important to you and that this must feel painful?

I think the advice you were given re her graduation is good.

My situation is similar and I am finding that it is two steps forward and one step back but validation is being more effective than any other approach.

At least this is a start and you now have something to work on.

It sounds like deeep down she wants you at the graduation.

Best Wishes

[co.jo]

Joint counselling is not an option as she is a $600 plane trip away from me. If there was a specialist in BPD anywhere near me, I would gladly visit for help with our relationship, although I am sure that was not what she had in mind, since obviously, all the problems are my fault.

Also, the graduation, which I would love to attend, most likely does have to have tickets which the graduate obtains.That is what happened for my other kids.

I know if I say I do not want to be in the middle of her and her siblings any more, that will close the door again. I think she has put me in an impossible position.

[six]

Hi CoJo

your story reminds me of mine.  My DS26 is not quite NC yet but is certainly going in that direction.  His big issue is that I protect his siblings but not him, and that I take their part (true) and not his (true)

I am starting to feel like it is just too hard for me to be caught in the middle and that in some ways NC would be a relief.  I love him and I would miss him, but the drama is really wearing me down.  

my DS also tells me that his issues with me are bec of my dysfunctional parents (they aren't) and my insane siblings (they aren't).  I am tired of being psychoanalyzed by him, and just plain tired.

as far as the letter your daughter wrote to you, it sounds familiar to me.  I would definitely insist on focusing on your relationship with her and not allow her to make you police her siblings who I presume are adults.  I don't think that she should be permitted to make a demand that you attend therapy in order to have a relationship with her.  relationships are not about demands or preconditions, are they?  I also agree that it sounds like she wants you at the graduation, but you should only go if you really want to be there.

 ii guess I am wondering, is NC such a bad thing?  I know many parents complain about it, but I am wondering if it sometimes  is the best solution to a problem that cant really be solved.  I hate to say something that might be perceived by many as callous, but especially if you have other children that you get along with . . . .

[co.jo]

Hi Six,

I would have been in total agreement with you about NC not being too bad when I was in the bad times. But I have to say, now that it happened, it feels like a missing limb. Yes, I can sleep at night, but there are many good things about my daughter that I miss, and I am reduced to internet stalking to see how she is doing. It is a very weird feeling to not know how things are with her. I would have thought it would be a relief in many ways, but it is just not. I know what you mean about the other kids, I have 4 others, and am fostering 4 little ones, but I miss my first-born each and every day. Strange, but I don't recommend it.

[lever.]

I feel the same co-jo. In some ways I am away from the stress but I miss her and worry about her and the GC. I'm being very boundaried about not being in the middle with her sister again, though. The stress of being in that position and the divided loyalties was just too much for me. Perhaps all you can do is keep chipping away with validating the valid and remember, as someone said to me, that we are running a marathon, not a sprint.

[qcarolr]

My gut reaction: this response is not that unusual or unexpected. My DD27 feels very justified in her angry feelings and entitled to everyone being on "her side". Things change slowly as  I make changes in how I feel towards her and respond to her. Tiny Little Changes (TLC) - in all directions.

Sit with it a bit in as non-judgmental an attitude you can find.

If this were me, I would choose not to even respond to #2 and #3. Contact is about the relationship between two people, not between one person and the whole family community.

Healing yourself is always a good idea. This is a point that can be validated for yourself.

Are you working with a T that understands the dynamics of BPD in a family situation? As I have built support for myself, in many different ways, I have healed many of my own old wounds. I am less impacted by unreasonable demands from my DD27.

No contact was intolerable for me, yet contact was killing me slowly. It has been a painful process of figuring out what I can give and when I have to pull back. Figuring out what my core values are, and respecting these in setting boundaries. I have found this helping me in all relationships in my life. I practice on "safe" people.

This quote, It is not within my power to orchestrate the outcome... . I can only try to create opportunities was given to me a few years ago by lbjnltx.  She was helping me work through the process of Radical Acceptance of the realities in trying to advocate the relationship between my DD and gd. Gd has always lived with dh and I; DD has been in  intermittent presence in our home. Often a very toxic presence. At this time there is no contact directly between them. Gd is clear she does not want to see her mom. Her mom blames me totally for this situation. I am finally able to accept that this is the healthiest way for gd for now. This has been my greatest trial.

qcr

[qcarolr]

One other idea to ponder is that it is important to avoid 'validating the invalid'. Perhaps this is another way to consider the demand to referee your BPDDD relationship with her siblings. I am not sure where I have best heard of this. Maybe Porr's book. Also check out the video, under "Foundation Reading" to the right, by Fruzetti on validation.

qcr

[Verbena]

I don't know your whole story, but this letter from your daughter sounds like a ton of projection.  It also sounds like some of the baloney I heard from my DD28 last summer--demands of what I must do and how I am the one with personality disorders (a number of them) with zero recognition of her own out-of-control behavior.  If you did every single thing your daughter is asking of you, it would not be enough.  In my experience, you can never do enough to make things right. 

At least you can say that you are learning about BPD which implies that your daughter does recognize she suffers from it. My DD seems to have forgotten that she was diagnosed ten years ago and is not happy that I don't "remember" the diagnosis never happened.

Your DD's letter is a lot to deal with.  I'm glad you heard from her, but she is putting you in an impossible position with unrealistic demands.  I would absolutely not agree to her "boundaries" especially the one about being the mediator between her and her siblings. 

[lever.]

When I wrote to my daughter I took the advice of qcr and others and didn't mention her sister at all.  It was difficult as it was the biggest issue  for my daughter.  I just kept validating her feelings of hurt and anger.

When you reply it might be best only to respond to the parts of the letter that refer to your individual relationship.

At least you know that you have tried and she will hopefully also remember that you tried. You have opened a door for her if she needs it.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[JustWantMyJoyBack]

Oh co.jo    ,

I so know how you feel.  You took the vulnerable steps to contact DD and now that you have a response, your heart pounds and you can see a glimmer of hope.  I'm currently managing the same situation.  I'll respond below with my thoughts:

First, the reason we don't have a relationship is because of my choices. We can have a relationship when I am ready to observe her boundaries.

That's projection.  More than likely, she cannot or will not observe other's boundaries with you and her family.

My letter did not give her the impression I have tried to change anything-it was full of "emotionally manipulative language" and did not seem to be from my heart.

This statement to me says your validation techniques has peaked her radar.  In the past (you may have been like me) your language may have been full of apologies.  Which I've learned can be validating the "invalid".  I have to be really care of this one.

She thinks it would be in my best interest to look for healing from whatever caused me to be this way, so she is adding bi-weekly therapy sessions for me as part of her conditions for re-engagement.It is clear to her that I am harboring enormous pain and will be unable to connect with anyone until I deal with it. ( My husband and other kids would be very surprised to hear this). She says it is never too late to heal.

I would simply thank her for the suggestion and let her know you'll make arrangements locally for therapy.  My DD says this all the time; however, based on what I've read here at this site, getting involved with dual therapy sessions simply hijacks the session to the BPD's accusations/assumptions.  I would recommend going to your own therapist.

2) As a parent, I must mediate between her and her siblings and make tangible progress in that area. Two of her siblings will not have anything to do with her.

No way.  My DD says this too.  I tell my DD that my son and his girlfriend are adults and I'm unable to influence them concerning their personal relationships.  I tell her, "Just like I'm unable to tell you who to have a relationship with... . I'm unable to tell any adult the same thing".

3) She must get equal treatment in the family-for her that means if she is under attack from someone, I must defend her the same way I would anyone else.

No way.  I just recently told my DD that my stress level and health suffers when I take sides.  I would simply validate how she must feel; however, I'm unable to identify "other's" feelings about your DD.

4)I must take responsibility to name my mistakes and make amends. Apparently my "hiding behind false apologies as a manipulation tactic " was the most painful part of my letter.

More projection.  Can't win for losing.  I myself have over apologized for "invalid" behaviors.  Behaviors I know I haven't exhibited.  However, to make amends, I have apologized for "invalid" things.  This is a hard habit to break (on my part).  However, I'm getting better at it.

Her Conclusion- this is what she needs in order to have a relationship with me. The price of my not doing so is no relationship.I can attend her graduation as it is a public event, but I cannot see her while I am there.

Careful with this one.  Pretty darn manipulative (just my opinion).  Are you willing to pay $600 for airfare, pay for a hotel, sit amongst strangers (at the graduation) and accept the fact she will not have contact with you?  I couldn't do it.  I would feel lonely, manipulated and sad.

I would tell DD that you would like to share time with her on graduation day.  Even if only for dinner or quiet time together.  Although, based on my own experience, this "time together" could quickly turn into major drama.

During such a celebratory event, I know how much it hurts to be alienated.  Just remember "you" and set boundaries that don't compromise or set you up for a drama take down.

Wishing you the best,

JustWantMyJoyBack    

[jaynebrain]

My heart breaks for you co.jo.  I have struggles also with my two daughters - 25 and 20DBPD.  The older has her own emotional rollercoaster and takes everything so personally (easy to say and hard to do I know).  DD has painted her sister black.  I have told both of them that I will not choose between them and I will not listen to accusations and men spirited comments.  It feels like Sophie's Choice to me and I will not choose.  There has been no contact between them for more than a month now.  A brief to the house by DD20 started a huge meltdown two weeks ago.  This is a value that my husband and I have decided on.  D25 lives in our home at the moment while going to school. DD20 does not love in our home.  I will not ask D25 to leave.  It is the hardest thing in the world not to bash their heads together but I am sitting on my hands (right now) and leaving them to sort it out.  Or not.

Co.jo - we don't have to love and get along with our siblings, but putting all of that responsibility on you is too much in my opinion.  I like to tell my DD20 that our relationship is about us.  Just us two.  I am the only person I have any control over.  beyond that - every man for himself!

Good Luck!