Perspective from people with BPD... does it exist?

[iluminati]

Thinking back to all of the various things that have happened, one thing that has crossed my mind from my ex with BPD is their complete lack of perspective.  They can only imagine the world from their point of view, tout suite.  They can be decent in picking up anger or joy, but the idea of being able to see the world through someone else's eyes appears to be a challenge.  Is that the experience of you guys on here?  I'm curious to find out.

[charred]

They can calculate from anyones point of view... . but what you are asking about is being able to put themselves in others shoes.

To put yourself in others shoes is where empathy and compassion come from, and pwBPD are stuck in a developmental stage before the ability for empathy or compassion.

A high functioning pwBPD is really hard to accept as emotionally stunted... they seem very emotionally expressive, however when you are on the receiving end  of their wrath... it is not normal. Normal people that are in a r/s argue or even fight with love for the person they are in the r/s with moderating their anger, in fact seldom do they get to the point of what you would call rage. A pwBPD will paint someone black and be 100% committed to hurting them, with no empathy for the person. It is like the emotions of a 3 yr old, they tell you they love you, and a few minutes later when you deny them candy they hate you and throw an over the top fit.  You may witness caring for animals and kids that seems like normal caring, but then have the pwBPD do something like get rid of their pet because some new person they are charmed with doesn't like pets.  It seems like shallowness to the extreme, but they really don't get it, and end up faking and acting when they don't know what they should be reacting like.

If you want empathy and compassion, a cluster B disordered person isn't the one to try to get it from.

[Turkish]

Thinking back to all of the various things that have happened, one thing that has crossed my mind from my ex with BPD is their complete lack of perspective.  They can only imagine the world from their point of view, tout suite.  They can be decent in picking up anger or joy, but the idea of being able to see the world through someone else's eyes appears to be a challenge.  Is that the experience of you guys on here?  I'm curious to find out.

When we (I) spent a few weeks trying to work out and salvage our r/s, I asked mine if she felt any remorse about her affair (since I didn't feel it from her). She replied, "I don't know, I'm still processing it." The day previous, we had a long, honest talk about us and her narc boy. I think the only reason she was open to possibly working it out was due to: "I found out he was still texting a girl he had FWB relations with while I was seeing him. At that point, I said to myself, 'this must be how Turkish felt.'"

Really? I thought to myself, YGTBKM. Any empathy she had whatsoever was still centered around her feelings. Still, unlike many here, I did get something like a 70% apology for what she did. But then she continued it, and went deeper in feelings and deeper cover (so she thought, but it was obvious). So the apology meant squat to me. I figured out a while ago that her behaviors indicated an overall lack of remorse, so I will never get closure. I gave myself closure by realizing this. I don't need validation from Judas.

[WhatTheFrank]

I also experienced this.  During those circular arguments, I would often try to reframe the situation with swapped roles, an outside person acting on one of us, or one of us acting on an outside person.  It got me nowhere, and frustrated me that she couldn't see what to me was so obvious.  It wasn't until I learned the full scope of BPD that I realized her abilities were limited and that I was approaching things incorrectly.

[Turkish]

I also experienced this.  :)uring those circular arguments, I would often try to reframe the situation with swapped roles, an outside person acting on one of us, or one of us acting on an outside person.  It got me nowhere, and frustrated me that she couldn't see what to me was so obvious.  It wasn't until I learned the full scope of BPD that I realized her abilities were limited and that I was approaching things incorrectly.

Mine completely reversed our roles with that of her parents. She framed herself as the long suffering mom who was staying in the abusive r/s with the cheater and abuser, "for the kids." And my Ex resents her mom on some level for not leaving him a long time ago.

Of course, my uBPDx channeled her father to a T (except for the physical violence, which her father stopped years ago... . still a serial cheater though). And I was more her mother, who was willing to forgive and work it out. Her attachments to love interests are too strong, so I let it go. I refused to mirror her parents' false r/s where they pretend to be married, but everyone knows her father has cheated for years, and despite being caught this past year, is likely still doing it. Denial.

Two nights before she left for good, I heard her on the phone with one of her brothers, asking if dad was home, or if he was out (her mom was out of town for a few weeks). This was her asking in a way if he was out catting around instead of staying home with his boys (one a teenager, the others adults who live at home). It was all I could do to not stop biting my tongue and say, "and how is this different from you, periodically abandoning your small children to go pursue your empty r/s? You're just like your father. Even worse, since at least he has the 'decency' if you call it that, to put on his hat and coat and take a walk to text and talk to his gf, while you do it right in our own home!"

Yes... . I was about ready to bite off my tongue, but she was T-minus 2 days to being gone at that point, and didn't want the drama. She knows she's like her dad on some level, but projects someone different for her siblings. I think her mom sees through it to an extent, but no one will really know the full scale of her neglect of her children except me (and the ton of people on my side that I have told :^)

Stating facts, even with documentation, would be to no avail. As my T said, "it's not something she will hear, so it's useless to say it." And, "stop expecting her to be something she is not. Accept who she is, and your anger will fade." Still having trouble with that. It's like I have this huge secret which I need to always keep, to not hurt others (her family, my kids). I just don't know what to do with it yet.

[Take2]

Stating facts, even with documentation, would be to no avail. As my T said, "it's not something she will hear, so it's useless to say it." And, "stop expecting her to be something she is not. Accept who she is, and your anger will fade." Still having trouble with that. It's like I have this huge secret which I need to always keep, to not hurt others (her family, my kids). I just don't know what to do with it yet.

As my T said "you wouldn't waste time trying to reason with a mentally ill homeless person who was talking nonsense to you would you?"  I try to keep that in focus.  It's so hard though- because the homeless person talking to himself on the corner generally doesn't sound and appear totally rational many other times.  The homeless person doesn't become (or appear to become) genuinely loving and caring.  I hate this disorder.

(( Hugs )) - I feel your pain Turkish... .  

[myself]

They can only imagine the world from their point of view

being able to see the world through someone else's eyes appears to be a challenge.

I don't think my ex could really fully acknowledge or embrace anybody else's reality. It was mostly about her. Like she had a force field around her that didn't let anyone in, or let herself out. There were moments when she would start to feel for someone, but would turn it off. Like those sunglasses that turn instantly dark. She responded strongly to women in the media who were victims. It wasn't that she walked a mile in their shoes, it was that she had already walked those miles of her own. She's good with animals.