Frustration

[appleman]

I'm finding it hard to express what I'm feeling right now other than sheer frustration. I figured if anybody would understand it would be the folks on here.

After a lifetime of emotional and psychological abuse from my BPD (waif, queen and hermit) mother, I finally reached a point a couple years ago where I decided to go with very minimal contact.  I had some counseling about this and while I still deal with the FOG from time-to-time, I've grown comfortable in knowing that I have done the right thing for my own sanity and mental health.

About 6 months after I went almost NC, my wife, while expressing support for my decision, had indicated she would  like our son (now 18) to at least have some contact with his grandparents on my side of the family.  Not wanting to be like my Mom and tell her who they could or could not see, I let her know it was ok if they wanted to do that.  They have been making the 2.5 hour trip a couple times a year for a visit.  I've always felt a little awkward about it, but have taken it in stride.

To give a little background my Mom has always been quite the splitter. I would literally be sick to my stomach and get the shakes anytime it was time to call her, because I never knew if it would be a normal conversation or if she would be on some kind of rant about me, my brother, my stepfather, or some perceived slight, reminding me what an awful son I was because essentially I hadn't devoted my entire life to my Mom.  I'd ruminate and lose sleep from those calls for days afterwards.

Recently my stepfather had a serious health scare, but he is out of the woods and being well-taken-care of. While he has been hospitalized my Mom has a hired helper to cook, clean, provide companionship etc.  My wife meanwhile, in what started as checking in on my stepfather's health has begun calling and conversing with my Mom every other day.  It's been much more than just having my son have his grandparents in his life.  My brother (who also has felt the brunt of my Mom's BPD to the extent he's needed years of counseling) keeps getting an earful about just how wonderful and caring my wife is to her (while putting him down and by implication me).  It seems as though they're just becoming best buds.  Or, I feel like my wife has decided to take over the role she thinks I should be doing.

It really got to me today when my wife told me she was going to call my Mom to wish her happy birthday.  I reminded my wife I hadn't received a call from my Mom on my birthday in over 20 years (something that has been a source of disappointment to me for years), but she was going to call my Mom?  My wife simply replied, "yeah".

I feel like I'm in a no-win situation.  I certainly don't want to give any her or me ultimatums to my wife. That would be something my Mom would do to someone.  But, gosh darn it.  I sure feel like the anguish I've gone through in reaching the VLC decision is being dismissed.

I don't know that there's an answer.  I just needed to vent I guess, but I sure don't feel good about the situation. 

[Sitara]

That would be frustrating. Have you talked to your wife about the situation? I understand you don't want to tell her what to do, but you can still have a conversation with the situation without giving an ultimatum.

I know that when I first got together with my husband my mom was super nice to him and it was quite a few years before she started showing her true colors to him. It was hard watching her be so nice to him while she was ignoring me, but at the time I wasn't aware of BPD so there wasn't much I could do.

Hopefully you are able to find some way to make you more comfortable about the whole situation. 

[appleman]

Thank you for the much needed hug, Sitara.  My wife and I have been married 22 years and she has seen the havoc my Mom can cause.  However, it's never been aimed directly at her. She never really had much to do with my Mom, but I just don't get the increasingly frequent phone calls and sudden interest in coming to my Mom's rescue. My Mom is physically taken care of, but has continually alienated anyone in her life.  She turned me against my Father since I was 3-years-old (they divorced) and I was her pseudo-counselor while growing up... . continually comforting her in her rants against my Dad, my brother, my grandmother, the neighbors, her co-workers, etc.  If I didn't wholeheartedly agree with her, I was given the silent treatment, or spoken to for days on end in short, clipped tones.

She liked whoever made her the center of attention, but if they didn't do exactly what was expected of them, she was quite hateful towards them and spoke badly about them to anyone she knew.  I realized when the whole cycle started over again and she started talking in a hateful way about my step-dad (really a saint of a guy) the way she did about my real father ( who passed away several years ago), her sick and twisted modus operandi came to light. I just could no longer be her marital counselor or agree with everything negative she would say about those I loved or cared about. 

I tried the route of trying to set boundaries for awhile, but they were constantly broken.  I realized I couldn't go on continually feeling stressed, angry, fearful and literally sick about the thought of talking to her anymore.  At that point I  made the leap to very little contact.  I've dealt with the FOG, but it's still better than subjecting myself to her behavior. I am of course, in my Mom's eyes, now a terrible son and terrible person. I feel that when my wife sees the need to increase contact with my Mom, that it's just a confirmation of it.

While my Mom certainly has had a good side from time to time over the years, I could never trust that the next time I'd talk with her wouldn't be an episode that would leave me literally shaking and upset for days.  My wife saw that and I certainly thought she understood.  She said she did.  But her actions of reopening the lines of communication lately, especially to the extent she is doing so, really has me baffled.  I understand if she wants our son to have a relationship with his grandmother. But I feel that what I have expressed about my experiences and what my counselor has said was clearly emotional abuse, is being somewhat dismissed.  It makes me really doubt whom I can trust.

[lucyhoneychurch]

The shakes, the nausea, the bouts of stomach and bowel issues timed with contact with her - oh so sorry this was your world. And you made great strides to diminish her effects on you.

This is such a shame, that you made such progress, and I think it very much sounds like you feel sabotaged, undermined, rug pulled out from under you stuff right now.

I will offer this up, as another child of uBPD'd mother - what have you got to lose by really kind of just coughing it all up to your wife, something like this, "Look... . I am going to take about FIVE minutes, really really REALLY say some things that *I* need to say, I'd appreciate it very much if you can let me vent, really hear me out, take nothing I say as an *accusation* but a very damaged person's effort to say what he is needing from you"  because if she is so interested (your wife I'm talking about) in caring for your parents etc... . she sure as hell needs to re-focus on her partner and how this is all throwing him for a loop.

Yes, you can only tune out so much of this, it's really right there at your personal space now.

Let her call her on her birthday though, it can't be tit for tat on that type of thing - save your battles (not sure what else to call it) for how this is obliterating your peace of mind that is so hard won and so long in coming.

God, I really hear so much of my story in your words. Not every son of a BPD'd mother makes it as far as you have, I assure you.

Don't let anyone take your hard work and efforts down to this sad hopeless level, no matter how well-intentioned they might be.

See what you think of saying that opening to your wife, then go for it. Have something in your hand that means alot to you - a picture of your son as a baby, a cross, a rock even... . just to keep you grounded and in the moment. Remember, talking with your wife is not trying to talk to your mother - give both of you that allotted time and get it out there where your wife has a chance to see and hear that she is deeply DEEPLY hurting and alarming you.

I applaud your self-preservation. Do not let anyone reduce you back to anything even close to what you were in your mother's shadow.

Been there so many times, totally grasp how bizarre it is to exist like that.

Please post back and let us know? 

[Santa Clara]

Appleman,  I am so sorry to hear what you are going through.  I can only just imagine how tough it must be (I would be heartbroken if my hubby started siding with my BP mum).  But I just wanted to say I support the adivce lucyhoneychurch it sounds very wise.

Good luck.

xx

[appleman]

Lucyhoneychurch, thank you so much for your thoughtful, heartfelt reply.  It truly means a lot. I'm sorry that you had to go through similar experiences in your life and what you describe hits the nail on the head.

I think you're providing some excellent advice. I do need to have this conversation with my wife and your suggested approach is sound. I just dread having to even have this conversation as I again feel like I come off as being the bad guy.  I don't want to be.  I just am craving some inner peace.  I feel like I finally got the skunk out from under the porch and that my wife has kindly delivered it right to my doorstep!

You're right.  I have to remember this tough conversation is being had with my wife, not my Mom.  Admittedly I've always dreaded such tough conversations, because I'm conditioned to them being  no-win situations throughout my life. (Not that I'm looking to "win", I just don't want to feel like a total heel afterwards).  It's a wonder I've been able to make it this far and to have a successful career given my fear of confrontation.

Santa Clara, thank you too for the support.  As others have mentioned before, sometimes only the people on this site really know what it is like to have lived through this stuff and can provide a shoulder to lean on without being judgmental.  Thanks so much.

[lucyhoneychurch]

The word "dread" in your post, appleman - if that isn't something we know every instant of our days, even sometimes long after we might've been in the same space with one of them -

Dread seems like a shroud of despondency that never lifts, that is so hauntingly pervasive and tough even as it is ephemeral - wisps of pain that might as well be wrought-iron chains  :'(

You fear being the bad guy. Your programming is talkiing    whereas in so many more "normal" families, kids are encouraged to speak about their feelings, their needs, and the parents bravely soak it up (with fear and trepidation at times too!), we were trained, like guard dogs, to choke back the thoughts and we had no RIGHT to think that way, after all, uBPD'd mother loves us so much! etc

What we felt was constantly juxtaposed against what we knew was reality - she says we can't think like that if we want to be even remotely left alone.

Bad guy - inner peace - you might not get inner peace having this very important talk with your wife, but you certainly won't get it if you do not - and she might possibly NOT see you as "the bad guy." But I totally get you wondering how it will go down. Every confrontational event in my life I had to be pushed to the wall in a really awful nasty way to finally yelp and say BACK OFF

I want to validate the fact you are worried about a no-win situation. Children who walk on eggshells and tiptoe and cringe and tremble in the presence of an abusive parent - that's as no-win as it gets - you will actually draw fire for being afraid and showing it too!

Go at this like one of your business situations if you can - how have you handled necessary (and not always evil, just creative people maybe butting heads) confrontation in your years in your field?

Call a meeting maybe... . have a list of what you feel needs improvement... . I don't know as I'm 30 years a stay-at-home mother.

But you can do this.  Take back your castle.    Your wife hasn't tried to overthrow it and you, she is just very much misguided right now about where her priorities need to lie and it looks like you will have to re-diagram that for her.

You need your castle that you worked so hard to achieve - your space away from upb'd disorders, your hard-earned security away from lifelong pain and anguish.

Cheering from way out here 

Have you seen Gravity? Please please please see it. I got the dvd after my youngest told me how well it was done - you will see every nuance of our lives in that film. And I will totally do a spoiler here and say - it has the only ending you're hoping for all along.

When there is no way out... . we close our eyes, we imagine, we rest, maybe even dream, and there it is.  Self-help site I clicked on the other day, you know this is true:  "You cannot create what you cannot imagine."

Create your safe zone again. You did it once.

Put it to your wife that you need her on board with you.

She could be an asset again rather than untethering what you've attained.

please be well in your head. It will be okay.

[appleman]

Lucyhoneychurch, I can't express enough how much I appreciate your kind words and support.  I will have this talk with my wife when the time is right.  Your insight is amazing.  It is very obvious that you and I have felt and experienced many of the same things.

I have seen and very much enjoyed "Gravity" a couple of months ago.  I guess I didn't look at it from the perspective you mentioned, but I'll have to see it again with that in mind.

I sincerely appreciate you and your help.  May you be blessed with happiness and the peace we seek.

[lucyhoneychurch]

The only insight I might have, appleman, is knowing to look for your answers in your own post      You described having skills in your career that show you know how to navigate choppy situations - you are a helmsman already.   

But you have no idea how much it helps me to possibly cheer on the home team. Maybe we'll all get there together one day, because the only thing each of us is looking for is calm and a sense of security and purpose.

My immediate thoughts are gratitude of the invention of electricity that is keeping my furnace blowing but with freezing rains today and single digits tonight... . sleet hitting the window right now.

Kudos to you as well.

My mother's passing is one year ago this coming Sunday. It will be interesting to see how I juggle that date in my head.

Be well.      

[Louise7777]

Appleman, I just wanted to show you empathy. The title called my attention and your words even more!

I know the feelings after talking to our BPDs: re-enacting it over and over and feeling angry, drained and frustrated for weeks. I didnt receive a happy birthday from years from my uBPD family member, although I had always greeted her... At some point I just stopped and things got worse, as you can imagine.

You are not the bad guy. I believe your wife should work with you as a team and follow your lead on this (after all, its YOUR mother). I hope you talked to her by now and she understood how you feel.

[StarStruck]

Hi appleman - In short I would expect more empathy and think what you are having to deal with is unacceptable. Any chance of taking her with you to the therapist, something is lost in translation here.

[AsianSon]

I will have this talk with my wife when the time is right. 

Hi appleman,

I only just came across this thread and wonder if you had the talk yet. 

You have done very well for yourself and your family with respect to your mother, so bravo to you!

Perhaps you have considered it already, but could your wife also be trying to do well for your family?  Maybe because of your son's relationship with your mother?  Or maybe she saw something during her visits that led to her current behavior?  Or maybe she has been pulled into your mother's emotional orbit without realizing it?

I don't mean to suggest that you read her mind.  But perhaps you can approach the talk as being an exchange.  You express your feelings and views and find out her views from her.  This might help reduce your dread and the feelings of a "no win" situation.  It might also lead to more cooperation and understanding between the two of you. 

You are not alone in dealing with a world with a BPD mother.  Stay strong and brave. 

[appleman]

Thank you very much everyone for the support.  I think my wife has realized how much the continued contact with my BPD Mom has been bothering me.  I honestly don't know if she's maintaining that contact at this point.  If she is, she's doing it well away from me, when I'm not in the house or when she's out doing errands and calling on her cell phone.

We haven't really had "the talk", because she hasn't brought it up to me that she's been calling.  The topic of my mom came up the other day in an unrelated conversation and I simply said to my wife, "Can we please change the subject?  Talking about my Mom really upsets me." And, we talked about other things.

Should this issue arise again and based on experience it likely will, I feel much stronger about having "the talk" with my wife thanks to the support you've all shown me. Honestly, I haven't wimped out, , the opportunity just hasn't been there. 

I tend to be painfully introspective and know that I'm programmed to think that if I'm not a pushover, or continually "Mr. Nice Guy" I'll be seen as the "bad guy" in all my interactions.  You folks are waking me up to the fact that I may not have the peace I seek until I sometimes put myself first and stop trying to be a "pleaser". I don't know.  Will I ever get to the point where I don't feel like I spend each day walking on eggshells and feel that I can totally trust someone?  I hope so, but after 50 years on this Earth, it's not coming very quickly!

Bless all of you and may you find the comfort and peace you seek.

[StarStruck]

Will I ever get to the point where I don't feel like I spend each day walking on eggshells and feel that I can totally trust someone? 

(Is this in regard to how you feel? or are there doubts about your wife in general hence why you can't trust?) I've taken the question that you have doubts about yourself:... .

If you are asking the question and prepared to be kind to yourself, to keep learning & to keep seeking this... . it will sneek up on you. Ask yourself if you deserve this, if the answers yes. It WILL happen.

We're all on our journeys here... . and I've read some fabulous stories of success since I've been here.

All the best to you appleman, you sound a lovely person