She/He has BPD - Acceptance

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi everyone.

First time poster here, although I've been reading these forums and getting an understanding of BPD for over a month.

I'm about 1 month out from the sudden breakup of a pretty serious 6 month r/s with a devilishly attractive 24 year old blonde girl.  I'll spare the exact details (although you can read my story in the introduction forum), but her sudden and "out of nowhere" ending of the r/s created the typical challenges that we are all familiar with here.

Now the discovery of BPD post break up, and my subsequent research into the disorder has really helped reconcile my perspective and the actual reality of the r/s, and has helped me understand what actually occurred.

However, I still very much struggle with a few things, the big one being: acceptance of her BPD.

To clarify, I have lingering doubts about whether or not she has BPD, as she is undiagnosed. I find this interesting because of the large amount of evidence pointing clearly to BPD... . it's a classic case!  In fact, I latch on to the few symptoms she doesn't meet, and doubts again return! 

What if am I just scapegoating? What if I've lost perspective and am not thinking clearly?  What if emotions are still too high?   Perhaps confirmation bias?  What if this actually was normal relationship and I just screwed up?

Do these doubts or this line of thinking resonate with anyone?  If so, what advice can you offer in regards to these doubts?  What have you done to overcome them to help yourself move forward?

[Lamaiel]

Hi everyone.

First time poster here, although I've been reading these forums and getting an understanding of BPD for over a month.

I'm about 1 month out from the sudden breakup of a pretty serious 6 month r/s with a devilishly attractive 24 year old blonde girl.  I'll spare the exact details (although you can read my story in the introduction forum), but her sudden and "out of nowhere" ending of the r/s created the typical challenges that we are all familiar with here.

Now the discovery of BPD post break up, and my subsequent research into the disorder has really helped reconcile my perspective and the actual reality of the r/s, and has helped me understand what actually occurred.

However, I still very much struggle with a few things, the big one being: acceptance of her BPD.

To clarify, I have lingering doubts about whether or not she has BPD, as she is undiagnosed. I find this interesting because of the large amount of evidence pointing clearly to BPD... . it's a classic case!  In fact, I latch on to the few symptoms she doesn't meet, and doubts again return! 

What if am I just scapegoating? What if I've lost perspective and am not thinking clearly?  What if emotions are still too high?   Perhaps confirmation bias?  What if this actually was normal relationship and I just screwed up?

Do these doubts or this line of thinking resonate with anyone?  If so, what advice can you offer in regards to these doubts?  What have you done to overcome them to help yourself move forward?

[Turkish]

Hello Lamaiel,

Do you accept the fact that she exhibited behaviors consistent with a pwBPD?

Mine met 4/9 traits, I surmised, after the first year. It may have been 5, I don't remember. I dismissed it. Near the end of Year 6, she exhibited 8/9, including an obvious dysphoria that I found very unsettling since I had to live with her for months after she broke up with me. It took time and additional triggers and stress for everything to come out.

I have the same HMO she does, and talked to a T. The T told me that even if they suspect BPD, they won't officially diagnose. I didn't need a psychologist to officially diagnose her with depression. That was obvious.  She was eventually though. Did I find that validating? No. I found it a relief. Perhaps relief is what you seek?

I doubt mine will ever get an official diagnosis for BPD, even if she has it. She removed herself from her biggest trigger: me. Does that matter to me? Perhaps... . but looking back on her behaviors, that is the key. What she did and said was real. The way she treated me was real (both good and bad). What I found of her writings confirmed it further, in combination with what she had often said about herself over the years. Still not enough for a diagnosis, since neither she nor I can do that.

The relationship affected me adversely, and altered the trajectory of my life permanently though not entirely in a bad way. This is what I accept now.

It is probable that there is a sizable contingent of people here had partners are sub-clinical, even were they tested. Does that negate their behaviors and in most cases abuse? No.

[Turkish]

Hi again, Lamaiel,

I took a look at your intro post and wasn't sure if you had come across these links in your browsing the site. I see the rationality in your writing. To a pwBPD, however, feelings are facts. It's a struggle to comprehend not only what they are thinking and why, and a rational or non-disordered mind can't quite grasp it.

If you haven't seen them, I think they may be of some benefit to what you are struggling with:

How a Borderline Personality Disorder Love Relationship Evolves

Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder [NEW]


Turkish

[Lamaiel]

I think for me, a lack of experience with serious relationships plays a role into my line of thinking, lack of acceptance, and doubt.  Although I have had plenty of positive experiences with women, this was my first serious r/s in terms of intensity and intimacy involved (I now know about mirroring etc.), and a lack of a previous serious r/s to compare and contrast against the BPD one makes it all the more difficult.

The child sexual abuse, the cutting, the emotional dyregulation, childlike behavior, the several instances of raging, the lack of personal accountability, the inability to accept any sort of criticism, the "it's never my fault" mindset, the feelings of emptiness, the urge to control, the spot on idealization and devaluation cycle, the sudden nonsensical breakup, and the replacement in 1 week.  I could go on and on... .

It's all right there on the table for me... .

[Turkish]

Then accept that she has most of the traits of a pwBPD, as it sounds like from your descriptions. My mother, for instance endured horrible childhood sexual abuse. She has several BPD traits, but i dont think would qualify as a Borderline.

Other than detaching, the next thing is to look at ourselves, which you already are in a way.

Mine was my first serious long term r/s as well. Looking back, I realized I had orbiters who were,  if not similarly disordered as my uBPDx, unhealthy as well. This is not the case for all of us here, but quite a few. What about you?

[Lamaiel]

I'm familiar with the lonely child schema and the tendency for a certain personality type to get involved with a pwBPD.  Interestingly, in terms of previous r/s, I don't think I necessarily attracted this type. 

HOWEVER, as this particular r/s evolved over 6 months, I now look back and realized I most likely transitioned into the lonely child and also developed a sense of co-dependency, all in order to save the r/s.

1)  When we first started dating and she was most likely in the idealization stage, I held fast to my boundaries/values, and maintained realistic expectations.  While she wanted to spend the holidays together, get a dog, and have me meet her entire family after 2 months, I kept the r/s at a reasonable level of casualness and allowed it to organically build and grow in seriousness.  You know... . like a normal r/s.

2) I think this mentality eventually triggered the devaluation stage (clearly defined through her string of sudden rages), which ironically enough occurred at the same time I was ready to commit and take the r/s to the next level in terms of seriousness. At that point, I did whatever I could to save the r/s: the destruction of my boundaries, avoiding conflict at all costs, "walking on egg shells", ignoring the red flags, and rationalizing her erratic behavior and emotions.  It was almost a complete 180; I completely dedicated myself to her. I lasted 2.5 months more before she ended it suddenly.

It is very interesting to me that I most likely had the "lonely child" mentality buried deep down inside me, and it took the threat of the ending of a r/s for it the rise to the surface.  Fascinating, and I need to examine the implications of this.

[Sunny Side]

I'm familiar with the lonely child schema and the tendency for a certain personality type to get involved with a pwBPD.  Interestingly, in terms of previous r/s, I don't think I necessarily attracted this type. 

HOWEVER, as this particular r/s evolved over 6 months, I now look back and realized I most likely transitioned into the lonely child and also developed a sense of co-dependency, all in order to save the r/s.

1)  When we first started dating and she was most likely in the idealization stage, I held fast to my boundaries/values, and maintained realistic expectations.  While she wanted to spend the holidays together, get a dog, and have me meet her entire family after 2 months, I kept the r/s at a reasonable level of casualness and allowed it to organically build and grow in seriousness.  You know... . like a normal r/s.

2) I think this mentality eventually triggered the devaluation stage (clearly defined through her string of sudden rages), which ironically enough occurred at the same time I was ready to commit and take the r/s to the next level in terms of seriousness. At that point, I did whatever I could to save the r/s: the destruction of my boundaries, avoiding conflict at all costs, "walking on egg shells", ignoring the red flags, and rationalizing her erratic behavior and emotions.  It was almost a complete 180; I completely dedicated myself to her. I lasted 2.5 months more before she ended it suddenly.

It is very interesting to me that I most likely had the "lonely child" mentality buried deep down inside me, and it took the threat of the ending of a r/s for it the rise to the surface.  Fascinating, and I need to examine the implications of this.

Hi Lamaiel, my experience with my uBPDexgf was somewhat similar.  I realize now in part that my r/s with her was a rescue operation all along starting with:

1.  Me.  I was at a vulnerable stage in my personal life and was freshly re-opened to emotional attachment after a 3 year r/s hiatus.  Through proximity to her I was fresh, available meat!

2.  Her husband, who was a close friend to me and whose health was rapidly deteriorating due to MS.

3.  Their two troubled children who I thought I could save as a caretaker/surrogate father.

4.  And finally, her.  Even as I knew that entering an intimate r/s with her was loaded with dynamite, I allowed my boundaries to erode and my values to slide to acquiesce to it.  I believe I did this because I thought if this r/s doesn't work then we would all be lost -- my friend, the kids, her but most importantly me, the abandoned child.

One thing I just remembered was that in the early stages of the r/s she was constantly asking me how my previous r/s had ended, and why I felt no need to have an r/s with that person anymore.  And when I would say when a r/s ends, I think (in some cases) that keeping that other person around on a string does not allow either party to get on with the business of their lives in a healthy way.  I realize now in some ways she was already forecasting the end of our r/s and was trying to determine if I would be available as one of the many need-gratifying objects (not a friend) in her life that she keeps in constant orbit around her.

I plan to explore my FOO and early childhood to see where the origins may lie for me, and why this hero/rescuer/fixer reemerged so intensely in this r/s.

[Lamaiel]

One thing I just remembered was that in the early stages of the r/s she was constantly asking me how my previous r/s had ended, and why I felt no need to have an r/s with that person anymore.  And when I would say when a r/s ends, I think (in some cases) that keeping that other person around on a string does not allow either party to get on with the business of their lives in a healthy way.  I realize now in some ways she was already forecasting the end of our r/s and was trying to determine if I would be available as one of the many need-gratifying objects (not a friend) in her life that she keeps in constant orbit around her.

This is very interesting to me Sunny Side, and this mirrors a bit what I experienced.  Early on, she was very focused on getting an understanding of my previous dating life.  She constantly asked my friends if I was a "player", wanted to know if I was dating someone immediately before she met her, and was very interested in all my previous romantic activity, including wanting to the number of women I had been with.

Have I already become one of her need gratifying objects one month out of the r/s?  I think so!

I have been LC with her since the break up, and have seen her attempt to self validate with me in almost every conversation we have.   I told the girl she was the most important person in my life and wept in front of her when she ended it, and since then she has used phrases such as:

"You're still so into me!"

"The guys are all over me at the bar tonight, this is ridiculous"

"You're getting in shape for me aren't you"

"I'm going to Vegas this wkend so you can roam the bars w/o fear of seeing me"

"You've been going to certain places b/c you'll think I will be there aren't you"

"Was that facebook post about me?"

":)id you like my facebook picture and then unlike it? I least like the good one haha"

When she proactively texts me and I choose to ignore her?  What a surprise, I get a string of messages until I eventually respond.

[DownandOut]

Lameil -

Much of what you said resonates with me and, honestly, I have many of the same doubts that you have regarding whether or not your ex could be considered someone suffering from BPD. That being said, how can our experiences be so similar without at least acknowledging that something is wrong with both my pwBPD and yours? I questioned whether or not I was using BPD as a crutch, and still do wonder, but then I reread some of the literature I've read about BPD and it's eerie how many traits my uBPDexgf exhibited in the r/s without me realizing it. Truthfully, I always knew she was mentally ill in some way, but the rescuer in me kept me moving forward and closer, rather than running away. Unfortunately she would always be the one with one foot out the door. It hurts and it will hurt for some time. I read your introduction post and our stories are almost identical except my ex wasn't a outward rager - mine would rage inward and I would get the silent treatment. Even if you don't want to put a label on it, all of those negative traits she exhibited clearly show that she is someone who is either extremely emotionally immature or mentally ill. Either way, it is not a healthy r/s. I think that, like myself, much of my attachment and infatuation with my ex was related to her looks and the mirroring. It's a deadly combination. I'd ask myself, how could someone this attractive be everything I look for in a woman? It seemed too good to be true, because it is. I've been with good looking girls before, however, I have never connected with any of them the way I connected with my ex. Why? Because of the mirroring. Be kind to yourself because, in truth, everything you loved about her were the things you love about yourself and someone out there will love about you too. Trust your intuition. You're not wrong.

[Lamaiel]

I know this article has been spread on these forums before, but this article about "losers", i.e. someone with a personality disorder, really hit home for me.  The author describes losers in a relationship, and goes over 20 or so characteristics that identify someone with a personality disorder, and the dynamic within a relationship.  I think my exBPD met about 15 of these characteristics. 

www.drjoecarver.com/clients/49355/File/IdentifyingLosers.html

I think the author explains in laymen's terms, and a bit simplistically at times, but nonetheless this article has really stuck out for me.

[Sunny Side]

... . Early on, she was very focused on getting an understanding of my previous dating life.  She constantly asked my friends if I was a "player", wanted to know if I was dating someone immediately before she met her, and was very interested in all my previous romantic activity, including wanting to the number of women I had been with.

Something similar became a turning point early in our r/s, after which she made an about face from how I had always known her (bold, sexually provocative, combative, obnoxious) into something she felt I would be attracted to (mature, reserved, calm, compassionate, human). 

Like your ex, she told me many times that she thought I was a "player" and for at least a couple years before our romantic attachment began she was, and I can't underplay this, constantly projecting me as this ladies' man who just ran through as many women for sex as I possibly could.  I used to think, "What the heck is her problem?", I had been out of a r/s for 3 years = no sex with anyone! And my last r/s before hers was longterm and monogamous.  But she literally refused to believe it.  I felt in some ways she was even disappointed that I wasn't that guy.

But yes, she wanted to know the "type" of women I liked (they were not like her), how many, where was I getting sex, etc. It was literally an all-out, continual assault nearly every time I would see her.  At some point even her married friends were like, "Just leave him alone!".

Have I already become one of her need gratifying objects one month out of the r/s?  I think so!

Unfortunately, Lamaiel, when I look back "need gratifying objects" define most of the r/s's in her life, even in many ways with her own kids.  I became, imo, just another link in that need chain, and the resulting trauma bond was strong.

I have been LC with her since the break up, and have seen her attempt to self validate with me in almost every conversation we have.   I told the girl she was the most important person in my life and wept in front of her when she ended it, and since then she has used phrases such as:

"You're still so into me!"

"The guys are all over me at the bar tonight, this is ridiculous"

"You're getting in shape for me aren't you"

"I'm going to Vegas this wkend so you can roam the bars w/o fear of seeing me"

"You've been going to certain places b/c you'll think I will be there aren't you"

"Was that facebook post about me?"

":)id you like my facebook picture and then unlike it? I least like the good one haha"

These are cruel and petulant things to say to someone you claim to "love" and I'm really sorry you had to endure them.  But you should remember them as try to become more detached.  Use them to tether you to radical acceptance, you are ending the r/s for a reason.

I'm lucky in the sense that my devaluation was more subtle (but no less devastating).  Early in the r/s, she would often tell me about men she would see or meet in the street that would tell her how attractive she was, wanted her number, etc., and she still wore her wedding ring at the time.  Many who approached her were married as well.  I also realize that within reason this is not unusual per se, but when she would tell me it felt as though she was a 15 year old child (she was 44).

I remember pulling her aside to ask her "Why are you telling me these things?", "Are you trying to create jealousy? A reaction? Feel validated? To hurt me?", etc.   She literally did not understand why this was inappropriate/hurtful, though eventually she stopped doing it.  But it took me a long while (9-10 mos in) to understand just how detached pwBPD are from any authentic, whole self.  In fact, she would likely always be seeking to attach to others as a means of cobbling together a patchwork unified self and I came to understand this as one of the ways mirroring manifests.

[Turkish]

I know this article has been spread on these forums before, but this article about "losers", i.e. someone with a personality disorder, really hit home for me.  The author describes losers in a relationship, and goes over 20 or so characteristics that identify someone with a personality disorder, and the dynamic within a relationship.  I think my exBPD met about 15 of these characteristics.  

www.drjoecarver.com/clients/49355/File/IdentifyingLosers.html

I think the author explains in laymen's terms, and a bit simplistically at times, but nonetheless this article has really stuck out for me.

Good article. Mine exhibited about 12. The "I love you and want to be with you forever" she never said to me. But she said it to her fallback lover less than a month after she started a physical affair with him, and I don't think it had gotten to sex at that point. If he bought into that, considering she was living with me and the kids, then it shows he is just as sick as he is.

The destructive tendencies only came out on a few occasions over a 6 year period, though she did exhibit some forms of road rage (once with me and our baby in the car, which I said was unacceptable). Let the baby fall asleep on my shoulder before dinner and his bath time. She was making dinner, in a great mood. I walked in, said he fell asleep. I walked out of the kitchen, and she slammed the fridge so hard, the door contents fell out and broke all over the floor. Like an idiot, I put the baby in the crib, came back and cleaned up the mess while she sat there angrily eating her dinner. One other time, she was depressed, I didn't pick up on it (or didn't care), and went to the store with S4 then about 7 months. Came back to an empty house, a really nasty note filled with swear words (which I still have) accusing me of "not getting it" and "abandoning" her, and pieces of her phone scattered down the hallway, indicating she threw it. The only time she hit me was when I said I was tired for sex. I was lying on the bed face down, and she walked by a whacked me hard on my leg. I turned over, shocked, and said, "did you just hit me?" Looking like the proverbial deer in the headlights, she innocently said, "no." I replied, "Yes, you just hit me!" Again, I did the wrong thing, acquiesced, it was good, but I never should have done that.

Funny, she said two deal breakers for her were physical abuse and cheating. That's her.

She used to ask me constantly for the first three years, "you love me, right?" and "you won't ever leave me, will you?" Major  in retrospect, given the frequency.

A lot of the other red flags really never came out until we moved in together, which is why I think her current r/s will go on for a while until she can figure out how to move him in with her and the kids into her government subsidized housing.

[Lamaiel]

To inject a bit of humor into this, one of my exBPD's heavily active social media pages is titled "Love Cycle".  How appropriate is that?

Anyways, I think sometimes one can get caught up in the actual diagnosis of BPD.  Is he/she actually BPD?  Am I imagining things?  Of course, this disorder is so difficult to diagnose, there are so many variations and people on so many different spectrums... . it makes 100% assurance almost impossible

But does it really matter if her behaviors are 100% defined and validated by a diagnosis?  Either way, he/she has severe personality flaws and behavioral traits that make a normal r/s almost impossible.  Could you spend the rest of your life with someone with these flaws?  Could you raise children and grow old with someone who acts like this?

Again, that's the logical and reasonable way to look at it... . but then emotions get in the way!