Anyone ever have a marriage counselor "fire" them

[formflier]

Quick history.  Multiple marriage counselors... .   the last time my wife walked out and said she wouldn't come back... . I stayed and asked what I was facing.  The counselor suggested BPD and then I found this board.  So... my eyes are open to this since January time frame. 

Yesterday after several sessions with the new counselor she sort of put us on notice that most of our differences are totally alternate realities and she doesn't want to play judge or decide who is correct... . etc etc.

She said she would be willing to continue for a few more sessions but we really needed to get to a place to move forward and she still doesn't see a clear path to help our marriage get better.

I confirmed "compliance" with requests and all in the room agreed that I had done the things that I was asked and all seemed to agree that my uBPDw had not done the things she was asked.  Some she had done less of "textbombs" and that kind of thing... . but they still were happening.

So... . I am under the impression that I have a couple more sessions to go before being faced with a counselor kicking us to the curb.  Thoughts on what to try and accomplish in the next couple sessions? 

My wife has agreed to go get mental evaluations done on many occasions but to my knowledge has never gone through with it.  She has been invited to attend and has attended all of mine. 

I'm seeing results from SET... . avoiding JADE... . and that kind of thing.  What should I be looking to get from marriage counseling to move my relationship with a uBPDw to a better place? 

[Love Is Not Enough]

Yesterday after several sessions with the new counselor she sort of put us on notice that most of our differences are totally alternate realities and she doesn't want to play judge or decide who is correct... . etc etc.

This is why marriage counseling won't work until your wife deals with what is going on with her. I tried for a few sessions and realized that I was just looking for validation. Basically what your counselor is saying she won't do - play judge and tell your wife she is completely off her rocker. An alternate reality is what your wife is operating on and there is not much you can do to change that. All couples counseling did for me was completely dysregulate my gf and caused much grief for days after. I'm sure our counselor was relieved when I stopped making appointments. I could tell he was as afraid of her as I was  

Your time and money would better spent on separate Ts and you working out your own issues. My gf has made a lot of progress doing DBT, but I still do not think that couples counseling would help us that much at this point. Maybe she would be more reasonable now and not explode. I have made much more progress just focusing on myself, working the tools and maintaining boundaries. Maybe at some point they become more receptive to couples counseling further in their recovery. I haven't made it that far yet. Hopefully someone else can offer some insight that has.

It sounds like your wife is still stuck at the starting gate and not making much effort with the T's request. So it sounds like it is a good time to just focus on you and your needs.

[Stalwart]

Definately,

A year ago when I first went to a counscillor with my wife she listened to me for a minute or two about our marriage and my wife for half an hour.

She calmly said "You have no problem (to me) your fine" but "You little lady are nowhere even being near marriage councelling - you've got a really terrible view and you have a lot of problems." She went on to tell her that she doesn't even deserve to consider being in a relationship. It wasn't pretty. She didn't want to see me again and advised against marriage councelling in my situation - I should have packed up and been gone a long time ago but against her better judgement she decided to try and take on my wife in therapy warning " I can't imagine it will come to any good conclusions!."

It lasted three sessions and hit the fan. She was one toughnut therapist though with a real opinion on right and wrong herself and wasn't shy about expressing them. The counsellor refused to see my wife any longer because she was so out of tune and just spinning around in the same circles with no progress. I can imagine those three sessions would have been like sitting in an active war zone between the two of them so I'm surprized they went on for three weeks.

It takes a specialist to deal with someone with this illness. A normal therapist really isn't trained to deal with it and even trained specialist are leary of taking on patients because they're so difficult and can be so demanding of their time.

I was fortunate my wife went on with a diagnosis and sought specialized help. It's slow but it progresssively gets better for her. The best part is she like the girl she sees (that's everything) and is sticking with it.

[yeeter]

My wife is uNPD/uBPD.

One of my own counselors sent me to this site.

Of the 9 joint counselors we burned through, none were effective.  A couple were highly credentialed and experienced (with reference articles quoted on this site).

The qualified counselors took about 4 sessions before stating that they really couldnt help us.  'Completely different realities' phrase was used more than once.

Some of the counselors would just start from a neutral position and give it time to learn their own realities/form their own opinions (counseling approach 101).  Sometimes this took longer than other times.  But once a counselor started to challenge her, my wife would melt down and denounce the counselor as incompetent or unprofessional and quit going.

So after several iterations of this (over months of time, and considerable $$), I just dropped it.  Counseling was ineffective for us.  And in fact made things worse in some ways, not the least of which was getting my wife triggered.

Some here have been fortunate and the right counselor has made a difference.  I definitely encourage you to try, and try more than once.  But less than 9 difft counselors (some of us are slow learners   )

[ugghh]

Married 25+years to uBPDw/uNPD.  Finally left last December.

As with others, we went down the MC path numerous and always crashed and burned when the stbx was confronted.  The counselor was immediately pronounced as incompetent and unrealistic.  The only good counselor were the ones that allied with her, or at least in her mind allied with her.

[formflier]

So... I think I am at 5... . or maybe 6 different counselors... . if you count pastors.

The last one was the one that shed the light on this.

My hope is that my wife will agree to and actually go to counseling/evaluation for herself.

I... . like many others here am convinced that is the only way to something more positive. 

I suppose I will try to take up as much time as I can in the next marriage counseling thing to discuss that issue.

That issue being... . why she still doesn't have a therapy relationship on her own.

Married 25+years to uBPDw/uNPD.  Finally left last December.

As with others, we went down the MC path numerous and always crashed and burned when the stbx was confronted.  The counselor was immediately pronounced as incompetent and unrealistic.  The only good counselor were the ones that allied with her, or at least in her mind allied with her.

[bpbreakout]

We have tried several different counsellors. It's not a totally nbad thing and it did improve things for a while but it was frustrating becuase 80-90% of the discussion was about BPDw. Once I got onto the BPD issue (we had thought bipolar) it was a lot better as I realised that counselling was going to be mostly a one way street just like everything else and I was able to adjust my expectations.

I guess most counsellors want to see both parties working on the marriage so understandably get frustrated when BPD is involved.

I'm seeing a counsellor on my own. My goals are around improving my own life in the best way I can, not getting sucked into BPDw's baiting/distortions/projections/FOG, being the best Dad I can in the circumstances not to mention being a good husband (which means appropriate boundaries).

BPDw was seeing a psychologist but has stopped as apparently she didn't need it and the only issue she has is a bad marriage. She has become noticably worse without the regular reality checks. BPDw is making all kinds of threats around our marriage.

I take things day by day. The only thing I can do is improve myself which inevitably means we are drifting apart. I believe she needs regular therapy but I also believe it is up to her to want to do it. It's a bit like climbing a set of steps, I'm going to keep climbing, will turn around every so often but up to BPDw whether she comes up too. She will try and pull me back I'm sure and we will have to see how things go.

It may sound depressing but I'm actually much much happier in myself than I was hoping that BPDw would come to the party on joint therapy and I'm much better prepared for the future whatever that may be.

Good luck !

[bpbreakout]

Sorry formflier, reading your 2nd post, one more thing.

Based on my experience, I wonder whether you are better off getting your own counselling so you can better deal with all the BPD ****. This site is great but actually taliking to someone who gets what it's like is better. Re her counselling, I'm not sure making deals really works with BPD, the only deals you can make are with yourself. I suspect over time if she see you going on your own path to growth she is more likley to want to do something for herself and if not then what have you lost ?

[MissyM]

We have been "fired" by more than one marital therapist.  I don't think most therapists are equipped to deal with BPDs.  We have just started a program with a DBT therapist that uses Fruzzetti"s model and documents.  This is based upon The High Conflict Couple.  I am not sure how you find someone that does this in your area, except to start calling DBT therapists.  This is a newer approach and is apparently having success.  The first session was Monday and we both felt good about it.  Of course, my dBPDh is in therapy and 12 step program on his own.  So he is somewhat motivated to change.  This isn't go in and talk about your problems therapy, this is a very structured environment.  We did talk a little about problems but the focus is on solutions.

[formflier]

i'm going back to the last marital therapist that my wife walked out on.  Since she is familiar with our situation.  it has helped a lot.

this is the one that pointed me to BPD and the eggshells book.

As far as "deals" with my uBPDw... . I would be shocked if she keeps them... . but I am hoping that this will help clarify to everyone and anyone where the focus should be when talking about fixing things.

100% compliance vs 0%... . hmmmmm

Sorry formflier, reading your 2nd post, one more thing.

Based on my experience, I wonder whether you are better off getting your own counselling so you can better deal with all the BPD ****. This site is great but actually taliking to someone who gets what it's like is better. Re her counselling, I'm not sure making deals really works with BPD, the only deals you can make are with yourself. I suspect over time if she see you going on your own path to growth she is more likley to want to do something for herself and if not then what have you lost ?

[yeeter]

but I am hoping that this will help clarify to everyone and anyone where the focus should be when talking about fixing things.

100% compliance vs 0%... . hmmmmm

Hi Form, just a friendly observation.

Unlikely you will have much success trying to 'make' her see that she has a problem.  You can be 'right', but you being right doesnt mean she will have a revelation and recognize this in herself.  Its a mental illness that doesnt enable her to see/acknowledge it even if she wanted to.

I would second the suggestion to focus on yourself and get your own T.  Its great to have someone that understands BPD even a little, and has seen some of the history to deal with.  Will get you off to a quicker start that way.

Good luck.   

[formflier]

 

Hey... . so while I doubt she will snap out of it and get better... . I also think that somehow I should keep the pressure on here of actual reality... . so that she has to "deal with it"... . that my eventually encourage her to see a T.  My thought is if I make life easy for her that it will make it easy for her to just stay put.

Basically what is the appropriate way to navigate this fine line?  What is too much pressure?  What is too easy?[/quote]
Hi Form, just a friendly observation.

Unlikely you will have much success trying to 'make' her see that she has a problem.  You can be 'right', but you being right doesnt mean she will have a revelation and recognize this in herself.  Its a mental illness that doesnt enable her to see/acknowledge it even if she wanted to.

I would second the suggestion to focus on yourself and get your own T.  Its great to have someone that understands BPD even a little, and has seen some of the history to deal with.  Will get you off to a quicker start that way.

Good luck.    [/quote]

[bpbreakout]

I don't think any of us are in a "normal" relationship, the fact is we have to do a lot to keep things going with very little in return.

Maybe it's early days. If you see your own T then over time you will work out what you are prepared to put with up in terms of BPD behavior and how much extra heavy lifting you are willing to put into the marriage to keep things going. It may be that there is a lot more you can do on your own than you think in which case you can lower your expectations of BPDw, on the other hand you may discover you have reached your own personal limits in which case you would have higher expectations. Either way my guess is that as things are currently you have to make the first move on your own and not realistic to expect pwBPD to do it even though it seems "right" as she has a mental illness.

I have been seeing a T and it really helps to talk to someone who understands the condition and the person, it helps to talk through what I am doing right and what I could do better (especially with kids involved) and clarifiues boundaries in terms of working out whats crazy and what's normal. BPDw sees a psychiatrist for bipolar/ADHD medication. To be honest I'm not sure whether we will stay married in the long term unless she commits to something like DBT for a significant period of time. Rightly or wrongly all BPDw can see is that it's "unfair" to be diagnosed with a mental illness. I've come to the point where I believe she has to make that decision on her own and all I can do is work on myself & I feel much less frustrated as a result.

Cheers

[formflier]

Sounds like you are a bit ahead of where we are at.

My wife got some kind of drug from a GP doc to help her "chill out and deal with things"... . if she is taking it I think it has made things slightly worse ... . to no change.

She will bring up and talk about "her mental health"... . here and there... . but usually it is in the context of blaming me for messing it up.

Allen

I don't think any of us are in a "normal" relationship, the fact is we have to do a lot to keep things going with very little in return.

Maybe it's early days. If you see your own T then over time you will work out what you are prepared to put with up in terms of BPD behavior and how much extra heavy lifting you are willing to put into the marriage to keep things going. It may be that there is a lot more you can do on your own than you think in which case you can lower your expectations of BPDw, on the other hand you may discover you have reached your own personal limits in which case you would have higher expectations. Either way my guess is that as things are currently you have to make the first move on your own and not realistic to expect pwBPD to do it even though it seems "right" as she has a mental illness.

I have been seeing a T and it really helps to talk to someone who understands the condition and the person, it helps to talk through what I am doing right and what I could do better (especially with kids involved) and clarifiues boundaries in terms of working out whats crazy and what's normal. BPDw sees a psychiatrist for bipolar/ADHD medication. To be honest I'm not sure whether we will stay married in the long term unless she commits to something like DBT for a significant period of time. Rightly or wrongly all BPDw can see is that it's "unfair" to be diagnosed with a mental illness. I've come to the point where I believe she has to make that decision on her own and all I can do is work on myself & I feel much less frustrated as a result.

Cheers