help with disassociation

[Depression = 72% of members]

I need some feed back from you all who are healing from BPD parent.  One of the things that enabled me to survive severe abuse was to split off from it and put everything I could not handle where I would not have to deal with it.  Have you done this?  I am so happy in my present life, long marriage, great grown kids, friends but, there's always a butt isn't there?  I struggle with depression and the whole list of nonsense, people who grew up in trauma struggle with as adults. 

When I go to the "dump" as I call it to process and attempt to heal I get so upset I can't function.  I keep thinking maybe I should just leave this alone but the level of anxiety in my life goes so high I feel like I'm kind of forced to deal with it.  I have worked on this so long so I'm probably getting to the really rotten areas but I don't know if I can do this.  The binge eating is horrible, I want to smoke and I'm addicted to benzo's (xanax and ambien).  I can't even think about getting off those right now.  Losing weight, forget it.  It just seems so ridiculous,  I want to be at peace, I want to enjoy my life but I cannot make myself let go of panic and relax.  I get so panicked when I try to do that I just shut down.

I think I am in shock a little when I experience the level of abuse that went on and the damage it has caused.  When I can keep it at arms length it doesn't seem so awful but this is so distressing.  So distressing.  Crap, I wish I could go away for like 3 months and do nothing but therapy and get it over with.  I want to disassociate I want to leave the building I just can't feel safe. 

Neither parent is in my life anymore either, Crud and double crud.  How have you worked through disassociation?  How do you handle it when the process gets too hard and you need to get away from it?  (I've painted my whole d house just to distract myself)  I have an active spiritual life and I don't even want to talk to God about this.  I see my therapist Wednesday.  I've been sending him cryptic journaling emails all week poor guy, what I want to do is say, I just can't take it, this is as deep as I can go, I will just live with the emotional noise and BS the best I can PEACE OUT.  pant pant, ok done whining

[rebl.brown]

I need some feed back from you all who are healing from BPD parent.  One of the things that enabled me to survive severe abuse was to split off from it and put everything I could not handle where I would not have to deal with it.  Have you done this?  I am so happy in my present life, long marriage, great grown kids, friends but, there's always a butt isn't there?  I struggle with depression and the whole list of nonsense, people who grew up in trauma struggle with as adults. 

When I go to the "dump" as I call it to process and attempt to heal I get so upset I can't function.  I keep thinking maybe I should just leave this alone but the level of anxiety in my life goes so high I feel like I'm kind of forced to deal with it.  I have worked on this so long so I'm probably getting to the really rotten areas but I don't know if I can do this.  The binge eating is horrible, I want to smoke and I'm addicted to benzo's (xanax and ambien).  I can't even think about getting off those right now.  Losing weight, forget it.  It just seems so ridiculous,  I want to be at peace, I want to enjoy my life but I cannot make myself let go of panic and relax.  I get so panicked when I try to do that I just shut down.

I think I am in shock a little when I experience the level of abuse that went on and the damage it has caused.  When I can keep it at arms length it doesn't seem so awful but this is so distressing.  So distressing.  Crap, I wish I could go away for like 3 months and do nothing but therapy and get it over with.  I want to disassociate I want to leave the building I just can't feel safe. 

Neither parent is in my life anymore either, Crud and double crud.  How have you worked through disassociation?  How do you handle it when the process gets too hard and you need to get away from it?  (I've painted my whole d house just to distract myself)  I have an active spiritual life and I don't even want to talk to God about this.  I see my therapist Wednesday.  I've been sending him cryptic journaling emails all week poor guy, what I want to do is say, I just can't take it, this is as deep as I can go, I will just live with the emotional noise and BS the best I can PEACE OUT.  pant pant, ok done whining

[clljhns]

Hi rebl.brown,

Yes, for many years I would dissociate from very stressful or violent confrontations. I would actually have what I described as "black-out" episodes where when I experienced extreme anger I would not be present and not remember what I said or did in that moment. This really scared me. I began to research what could cause this. I still didn't want to face the reality of my childhood though. This all came crashing down for me when I went NC with my parents. I was able to take a month off from work and went into intensive therapy. My greatest fear was that I would be consumed by the anger, grief and pain if I were to delve into this painful region of my life. It didn't happen. What did happen, is that I gained a great deal of freedom from the past and wasn't consumed with negative thoughts. I still struggle from time to time, but it is not all consuming anymore.

I would suggest that you print out what you wrote in this post and take it to your therapist. I know how frightening this can be, but I think you and your therapist can help you work through this!

Good luck and many blessings! You can do this!

[P.F.Change]

I'm sorry you're having a hard time, rebl.brown. I think clljhns's suggestion to take a copy of your post to your therapist is a good idea. It sounds like you have been using food and drugs to try and numb your emotional pain; that is understandable, many people do this as a means to cope when they don't yet know another way. There is also an increased risk of dependence when xanax is taken at higher doses, like those sometimes prescribed for panic disorder. It is really important that you are able to acknowledge your addiction to xanax and ambien.

You say you can't even think about getting off of them right now. I can understand why you feel that way. I think your addiction needs to be addressed, though. Dependence on those drugs can lead to increased anxiety and depression, which may be a factor in the amount of anxiety you are feeling when you go to the "dump," and why you feel you can't let go of feelings of panic. I would urge you to seek professional advice about your dependence on those drugs and be honest about any other substances you may be using. While I do think it is important to get to the root of our issues, I am concerned that it isn't safe for you to push yourself while you are misusing these drugs. Overdose can be fatal.

Have you told your therapist about your dependence on xanax and ambien?

Wishing you peace,

PF

[rebl.brown]

Thanks so much for the response.  Big breath and sigh.  I don't know, I don't know if I can do this.  I still so see myself as a victim.  I don't know if I could handle getting off the drugs, I want to be careful.  I did do something really stupid last week, I don't need to go into details.  I,  sometimes wonder, if I would mind being released from life or not, I'm not talking about suicide so don't panic I mean, I wonder if that place deep inside really wants or maybe a better way to put it thinks it is really possible to come to peace.  I don't know.  I'm ok, I do lots of great things, involved in life, etc yet I don't know, I know you guys can't answer these things and I have to work on it myself and I have to choose the life I have now.  And my attitude is really important.  Maybe I just should not talk about these things. 

I've come a long way, I really have I don't really know why this still bothers me so much.  I understand the mental illness and that my parents just operate in the world that way and it isn't my fault or responsibility and I don't have to have a relationship with them.  I'm middle aged, the really hard parts of life are over for me (other than aging ha!)  My children are grown and married and all college graduates and professionals and I love their spouses and I have two beautiful grandchildren, well, the grandson is a booger but you know, he's fun  

Why can't I feel safe?  I just can't seem to turn that corner where I begin to integrate the split off part of me.  My daughter, who's adopted is a survivor of sexual abuse and craziness and she and I are so close and she said that for her though she is happy at the center is always a kind of grief or sorrow.  What do you guys think?  Am I just feeling sorry for myself and need to get on with it?  I probably shouldn't post this  but lots of what we post are things about how to deal with the BPD parent which is of course valid.  The hard part for me now is dealing with myself.

[rebl.brown]

I just read the sidebar to the right.  Duh, I started at the safety first part.  Good place to start, the beginning.  It answered a lot of my questions.  I need to spend more time in the resources section.

Last but not least question:  What does one do when one never feels safe.  When feeling safe is never an option because the feeling of fear comes from within.  I am safe I just never feel safe. 

I'll talk to the "therapist" Wed.

reb.

[clljhns]

Hi rebl.brown,

Feeling safe is something that we should have experienced in childhood. If this did not happen, it makes it difficult to trust ourselves and others. Parenting the self is crucial to develop trust of self and others to feel safe. One thing that I learned is that I had to love myself wholly and to trust my decisions; good, bad, or indifferent. I think this was the hardest part for me. I didn't know how to love myself or if I should trust my own decisions. I was not allowed to think for myself growing up and if I expressed any opinions I was told that my ideas were stupid or if my opinions didn't match that of my parents, I didn't love them. It set me up for a lot of self-doubt.

It took many years of silencing the negative messages playing in my head to develop trust in myself.

I am so glad that you are going to the T this week and I hope that you share everything with T that you have shared here.  I am curious about your statement of still seeing yourself as a victim. What would it feel and look like to be a victor, instead of a victim? I think you are already a victor from what you have shared here.

Best wishes and blessings!

[DreamGirl]

Hey rebl.brown,

I hope you can see that you are not alone in this.  

I dealt with disassociation as well, and it's a tough task to face the hard parts of our childhood. It's a coping mechanism that works temporarily and then here we are in adulthood suffering from the manifestations of what we simply could not deal with. I also can understand wanting to numb -- just another coping mechanism to deal with what is so, so hard. I've struggled in addictions myself, especially when it comes to food, so again know that ythe issues you are facing aren't uncommon for those of us trying to survive our childhood experience.  

It's a catch 22 really, we need to resolve some of these issues (shame, fear, anxiety) in order to move forward... . but BECAUSE of these issues, we lack the resilience to handle that which needs to be dealt with.

So first, I'm glad that you are in therapy because it usually does take some professional intervention. I also want to suggest two things that perhaps may help you, because it helped me tremendously.

1.) When you can take a breath, and with less emotion, you can inventory your issues that you are facing (anxiety, fear, shame) as "manifestations". I think that when we are able to look at the issues and see them from a more clinical standpoint - it really helps that we see it as typical. It starts to make sense that we struggle in the ways that we do.

This list helped me the most in this:

Some Characteristics of Adults Shamed in Childhood

Jane Middleton-Moz

https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a108.htm


1. Adults shamed as children are afraid of vulnerability and fear of exposure of the self.

2. Adults shamed as children may suffer extreme shyness, embarrassment and feelings of being inferior to others. They don't believe they make mistakes. Instead they believe they are mistakes.

3. Adults shamed as children fear intimacy and tend to avoid real commitment in relationships. These adults frequently express the feeling that one foot is out of the door prepared to run.

4. Adults shamed as children may appear either grandiose and self-centered or seem selfless.

5. Adults shamed as children feel that, "No matter what I do, it won't make a difference; I am and always will be worthless and unlovable."

6. Adults shamed as children frequently feel defensive when even a minor negative feedback is given. They suffer feelings of severe humiliation if forced to look at mistakes or imperfections.

7. Adults shamed as children frequently blame others before they can be blamed.

8. Adults shamed as children may suffer from debilitating guilt. These individuals apologize constantly. They assume responsibility for the behavior of those around them.

9. Adults shamed as children feel like outsiders. They feel a pervasive sense of loneliness throughout their lives, even when surrounded with those who love and care.

10. Adults shamed as children project their beliefs about themselves onto others. They engage in mind-reading that is not in their favor, consistently feeling judged by others.

11. Adults shamed as children often feel ugly, flawed and imperfect. These feelings regarding self may lead to focus on clothing and make-up in an attempt to hide flaws in personal appearance and self.

12. Adults shamed as children often feel angry and judgmental towards the qualities in others that they feel ashamed of in themselves. This can lead to shaming others.

13. Adults shamed as children often feel controlled from the outside as well as from within. Normal spontaneous expression is blocked.

14. Adults shamed as children feel they must do things perfectly or not at all. This internalized belief frequently leads to performance anxiety and procrastination.

15. Adults shamed as children experience depression.

16. Adults shamed as children block their feelings of shame through compulsive behaviors like workaholics, eating disorders, shopping, substance abuse, list-making or gambling.

17. Adults shamed as children lie to themselves and others.

18. Adults shamed as children often have caseloads rather than friendships.

19. Adults shamed as children often involve themselves in compulsive processing of past interactions and events and intellectualization as a defense against pain.

20. Adults shamed as children have little sense of emotional boundaries. They feel constantly violated by others. They frequently build false boundaries through walls, rage, pleasing or isolation.

21. Adults shamed as children are stuck in dependency or counter-dependency.

Do you see any of that ring true for you, rebl.brown? I know for me - I saw myself in a lot of those.


2.) I also think that building resilience is key in trauma recovery. It's a covert operation really.

For me, it started with honoring each and every thing I did for myself. I wash my hair in the morning, I brush my teeth, I brush my hair, I paint my fingernails, I put makeup on, I wear clean clothes... . look at how much I value myself in that.

The second part for me was learning the very important skill of mindfulness which can be the single most powerful tool in dealing with these hard emotions. Have you heard of it?  

[P.F.Change]

I don't know if I could handle getting off the drugs, I want to be careful.

It is good to be careful. It is not a good idea to try quitting these drugs on your own--it can be very dangerous, even fatal. You will need medical supervision to do so safely. I think you will need to face this eventually, and I think you can do it with the proper support. Does your therapist know what dosages you are currently taking?

It is also good you are exploring the tools we have here on the site. Safety First is one of the most important. The Survivor's Guide is also a good way to benchmark our progress as we move through Remembering to Mourning to Healing.

You've gotten some good advice from clljhns and DreamGirl. There was a feature thread not long ago about those characteristics of adults shamed in childhood. Healing--Shame in Adulthood and How We Move Forward Looking at the replies, I think you'll see that DreamGirl is right, a lot of what you are feeling is typical for people with our upbringing.

I will be thinking about you tomorrow as you go to your therapy appointment. Will you let us know how it goes?

PF

[rebl.brown]

What amazing people you all are.  You helped so much.  I'm going to print off the whole thread and use it as I work on things this week.  My therapist whom I love so much helped tremendously.  When I talked to him its like my head clears and I can see that I am perceiving things as if my abusers are still in charge.  He was helpful with coping techniques and reframing and many suggestions. 

It great yea, yea to talk about and then... . you must implement the techniques into your life.  I know I gotta go S-L-O-W  and I mean really slow.  I get in a panic and running here and there and the anxiety and negative self talk takes over and I'll right back where I was 20 years ago emotiionally and acting crazy.

I do feel very much better, thanks the your patience and support  Let's get on with it!    I'll share more tomorrow when I am not so sleepy

reb

[clljhns]

rebl.brown,

Yea! I am so glad that you are feeling more confident in your journey of healing! The negative messages that you talked about I completely understand. Is your T using any cognitive behavioral techniques to help with this? You might want to watch John Bradshaw's videos on toxic shame and healing the inner child. I found his work to be very insightful and helpful to me.

Remember, you are already victorious because you want to get the healing you need to put these demons behind you!

Journey on!

[rebl.brown]

Yes my T is using CBT and I like to read about it and talk about it and think about it but not implement it.  Ha!  No one of my big problems is stopping when the cycle of toxic feelings and thinking begin to take over and speaking the truth and using the tools my T has given me.  I have to change everything about the way I think.  The biggest thing my T did for me yesterday was to snap me out of the ever deepening hole of victim thinking, hopelessness.  Just to hear him say, you can choose, you don't live with your parents anymore they have no say so anymore I just needed to hear that yesterday.  Now if I can continue to work on that thought and get my heart to believe it.  It still surprises me at how pervasive the abuse became and can still be.  The way a BPD takes away your very will to live, crush you and for them even that is not enough.  I am not in their orbit anymore and I don't want my thoughts to be either.  To view the world as non-threatening to see life as good will be hard.  Oh sure I enjoy lots of it but that deep down "this sucks" perception has got to go.  My T said to work on one issue at a time.  The one we picked this week is victim thinking-hopelessness, helplessness, nothing like picking an easy one to start!  Thanks again everyone so very much.  Let's keep talking

[P.F.Change]

My T said to work on one issue at a time.  The one we picked this week is victim thinking-hopelessness, helplessness, nothing like picking an easy one to start! 

This is a good one. What are you doing to challenge the Victim mindset this week? What are the "old thoughts" you are challenging and the "new thoughts" you are trying to replace them with?