Growing more estranged and reaching a decision point

[bpbreakout]

Things have not been good between us lately with a few major issues to deal with including teenage kids, BPDw's FOO issues, my work and so on. We are growing apart and frankly I prefer some distance as it's a real relief from the constant arguing over nothing. The fact is I don't feel like I can have a proper relationship with someone who is not getting proper treatment, is rude on a daily basis, frequently berates me and picks fights in front of the children, complains about me to friends and constantly gets into fights with our daughter. I feel like I could stand the odd hicup every few weeks or so but not 3-4 times a week. For me there has to be some trust built up over a period of time if a relationship is going to work. Her position seems to be that if I don't buy flowers and tell her I love her she will be rude & will eventually leave. I have dealt with this for years by smoothing things over & keeping my feelings to myself, but I can't keep doing this to myself forever, I have to have a boundary of some kind which says that there will be no marriage if she keeps on treating me like crap. Anyone else have this kind of issue ? How did you deal with it ? How can I communicate it ?

Thanks

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[tired-of-it-all]

If you buy her flowers every week, she will need them daily.  If you buy them daily, she will need jewelry.  If you buy jewelry, she will need diamonds.  BPD's don't know what normal, reasonable expectations are.  The more we give in the less they respect us an the farther into the bazaar they go. 

I have become a fairly nasty person to deal with when my BPDWife is behaving badly.  I am completely intolerant of any of her weird behavior.  I address it immediately and I don't do it nicely.  I am not at all sure that this is the right thing to do.  It is just what our relationship has spiraled into.  My wife is afraid that I am going to leave her.  I did it for 10 months and then, for some inexplainable reason, I moved back.  She is the same BPD under the surface but she is pretending to be nice most of the time so that I don't use her outbursts as a trigger to walk.  I know this isn't a mature, healthy relationship.  It just is what it is.

If you are at the point of leaving, you are way, way ahead of most of the folks on this board.  You are certainly way ahead of me.  I commend you for being so clear headed and for having the good sense to take care of yourself.

[Livestrong97]

I too have been in the same place you are for awhile now and after an awful fight tonight with my daughter and him yelling at me for stepping in, I logged in and saw your post first.  Your life sounds just like mine and I feel the same way you do.  I'm confused and feel overwhelming helplessness, and I'm not sure what to say to my kids or to him to set a boundary that will change him.  I've been trying to keep it together for my kids but it's getting harder and harder.  If my kids or I get lightly upset about something as normal people do, he turns it into a big fight so that he can tell us how awful we behave.  In reality it's him who is behaving awful.  I too feel detached and enjoy the distance.  I dread coming home for fear the night will turn as it did tonight.  I worry that divorce is even harder on the kids but can I do this for 5 - 6 more years?  I worry about my daughter - as I'm sure you do yours.  And I learned a long time ago that when I start to feel the trust and things begin to get better they fall apart yet I keep doing it over and over again. 

How long have you known about BPD?  I just got answers within the last year so I think I have a long way to go to process all of this.  I'm trying to help my daughter (the target) as best I can by validating her but I'm ready to find a therapist but I'm very thankful for this site.  I think the hardest thing of all (although there are many very difficult ones) is that my daughter doesn't understand, is developing, is at risk herself because of him, and can't stand up to him.  He just yells louder and punishes harder.  I feel very unhealthy and mistreated as she must too, when this is happening.  I wish I left when they were babies.  I just had no idea.  I will say this about setting boundaries - 3 years ago I decided to leave when he agreed to some (temporary) help.  He did stop raging after that.  Now, things are back to bad behavior and an unhealthy relationship.  Is it better to go now or to stay until they are in college.  That is the million dollar question.   

[pallavirajsinghani]

My quick 2 cents to the question,  "Is it better to leave now or wait till they are in college.? 

I believe that all clinical studies state that children from a divorced family grow up healthier than children from an unhealthy and abusive family. 

Abuse is abuse, whether the cause is mental illness or character flaw.

I personally believe that it is our sacred duty to protect our children.  Spousal choices are ultimately choices.  It is man's law that makes that union.  Children on the other hand, are our sacred wards.  That is not a relationship of choice.  Their health comes before any other consideration.  And their health (emotional, physical, psychological) is dependent upon having a healthy parent... . even if one of them is healthy.

If divorce is not an option, consider putting strong boudaries in place.

Gotta go.

God bless.

[bpbreakout]

Thanks for the replies, to the various comments

BPDw was diagnosed last year after having been treated for Bipolar2 for 8 years. The last 6 months has been a real learning curve but there is excellent help around including this site. We tried marriage conselling for while which wasn't really helping me as 80% was about BPDw. I'm seeing a therapist on my own and it really helps keep things in perspective. BPDw sees psych every 2-3 months for meds but no DBT or anything like that.  I can see why you have to be nasty at times though I can imagine it would also be soul destroying. My position at the moment is that I'm not doing things if there is ongoing rudeness or abusive behaviour but I really don't think BPDw hears me. I'm learning fast how to disengage and it really makes me feel better in myself. My daughter also in therapy. She fights back all the time and I want her to have an outlet and also learn how to deal with Mum a bit better rather than escalate though I can se why d15 needs to fight back. Hopefully another voice of sanity in her life will really help. Agree agree there is something sacred about protecting children. I have read that the pecking order when it comes to healthy kids is 1. Happy marriage, 2. Happy divorce, 3 Unhappy marriage, 4 Unhappy divorce - I would be very happy to take custody though in reality I suspect 50/50 would be the only option to begin with & I might have to fight hard for that as all hell would break loose if I started the sepration process. Also wouldn't be healthy for my S12 if he was left with BPDw and D15 came to live with me. I guess if both parties wnat option 2 everything potentially ok but if BPDw effectively promotes option 4 then it's a real problem & I have no control over her behaviour.

[Livestrong97]

Thank you all so much for the very valuable comments. 

Bpbreakout, you are a pillar of strength to help your daughter the way you do and to be open to therapy to cope.  Do you think divorce on kids our age is even harder since they are teens?  Also, option 4 is most likely my situation if I pursued it. 

When I feel torn it's because my uBPDh is high functioning and divorce would be 50/50 - that need to protect is part of why I stay. If I weren't here to intervene and step in, or just validate my daughter - to be that voice of sanity.  Wouldn't it be worse if I weren't here or am I just showing her how awful marriage can be? 

Good luck to you Bpbreakout, and thank you for posting this topic.  Being able to converse with others who understand is helping me through the current cycle of dysfunction. 

[an0ught]

Hi bpbreakout,

Restructing a relationship takes time and a phase where you feel more separate than you have felt before can be normal. The more boundaries you put in place the more her mis-behavior becomes obvious to you.

Her position seems to be that if I don't buy flowers and tell her I love her she will be rude & will eventually leave.

She feels not appreciated and unloved - that is easy to validate (and validation is easier than making sure there are more and more flowers every week). It is her problem if she feels that way and it gives her no right to abuse you.

I have dealt with this for years by smoothing things over & keeping my feelings to myself, but I can't keep doing this to myself forever, I have to have a boundary of some kind which says that there will be no marriage if she keeps on treating me like crap. Anyone else have this kind of issue ? How did you deal with it ? How can I communicate it ?

From what I read you struggle to express your frustration and instead consider to divorce her. It may be worth considering that your emotions are critical feedback for her. Without feedback there is no reason for her to realize and stop doing what she is doing.