Should I let my children have contact with their BPD aunt?

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Hello, I posted on the newbie board but I'll sum up: I have a sister with BPD, her behaviors are pretty outrageous. She mostly lies and makes up stories to seek attention (she also has bipolar disorder and extremely high anxiety-so maybe some of these are delusions), but she can become verbally abusive and of course, is very manipulative and sneaky. My feelings toward her have always been irritation and contempt, even as children. But lately it has been anger, since she turned to other loved ones to prey on with the "victim" stories, and still tries the same old routine on me as she has tried the last 25 years. I have bipolar disorder, so I will work that out with my therapist, should I ever desire to get past my own feelings.

However, there is the question of my children. I have a 15-yr-old autistic boy, who also suffers from depression and anxiety, and a 12-yr-old girl, who is in therapy for extreme anxiety (the genes in this family are something else!) I have not had a whole lot of contact with my sister for 2 years, and when I do, it's destructive, meaning she starts her behaviors and I end up angry and full of contempt that she doesn't ever change. (She is 41, I am 43.)

My therapist strongly suggested that I protect my children by changing their phone numbers so my sister cannot have contact with them that way (as she has abused it), so I had them changed. But I'm the one that has to decide how much of a relationship they have with her. I have tried to be objective, but the kids find her letters to them disturbing, as they are inappropriately intimate (false affection and flattery). I stopped letting them stay with my sister when she started feeding them anxiety-provoking stories of break-ins, robbery and fire. I didn't realize how delusional she was, until the kids notified me of these whoppers. We did run into my sister once during the past two years. We saw her at my father's house. Her demeanor (wild-eyed and very manic) made my children uncomfortable... . my 12-yr old said she was "creeped out" by the way her aunt was following her, and she fled to our van and waited to leave. I do not want to force my children on a person that they don't really respect or care for, but my sister has a skewed sense of a relationship with them. She feels far more for them than they ever have for her... . or she professes to, anyway. She is an adept liar so I can't tell. There is also the question of her eventually using them as enablers. And to add one more thing... . she is in contact with a severely mentally ill cousin, who does not comply with treatment and who I also believe is borderline... he is even worse, he gets physically abusive. When those two collude, they are twice as destructive. I set the boundary that Sis should never call me for help if she is in contact with the cousin... . which she promptly broke by simply lying and saying she wasn't in contact when she was, and calling us for "rescue" again. I have set no boundaries since... . just completely cut off contact. I tried to get in contact via email several weeks ago and when she was sure she had me hooked, she told a whopper of a lie that upset the entire family and forced me to do damage control within the family yet again. I'm not sure setting boundaries would solve anything, as even setting one didn't work. Ideally, I want my kids to have no contact with a person that destructive. But that can backfire when they get older, when Sis insinuates herself into their lives after a decade out of the picture.

There are my fears. Advice, anyone?

[Sadi39]

Hello, I posted on the newbie board but I'll sum up: I have a sister with BPD, her behaviors are pretty outrageous. She mostly lies and makes up stories to seek attention (she also has bipolar disorder and extremely high anxiety-so maybe some of these are delusions), but she can become verbally abusive and of course, is very manipulative and sneaky. My feelings toward her have always been irritation and contempt, even as children. But lately it has been anger, since she turned to other loved ones to prey on with the "victim" stories, and still tries the same old routine on me as she has tried the last 25 years. I have bipolar disorder, so I will work that out with my therapist, should I ever desire to get past my own feelings.

However, there is the question of my children. I have a 15-yr-old autistic boy, who also suffers from depression and anxiety, and a 12-yr-old girl, who is in therapy for extreme anxiety (the genes in this family are something else!) I have not had a whole lot of contact with my sister for 2 years, and when I do, it's destructive, meaning she starts her behaviors and I end up angry and full of contempt that she doesn't ever change. (She is 41, I am 43.)

My therapist strongly suggested that I protect my children by changing their phone numbers so my sister cannot have contact with them that way (as she has abused it), so I had them changed. But I'm the one that has to decide how much of a relationship they have with her. I have tried to be objective, but the kids find her letters to them disturbing, as they are inappropriately intimate (false affection and flattery). I stopped letting them stay with my sister when she started feeding them anxiety-provoking stories of break-ins, robbery and fire. I didn't realize how delusional she was, until the kids notified me of these whoppers. We did run into my sister once during the past two years. We saw her at my father's house. Her demeanor (wild-eyed and very manic) made my children uncomfortable... . my 12-yr old said she was "creeped out" by the way her aunt was following her, and she fled to our van and waited to leave. I do not want to force my children on a person that they don't really respect or care for, but my sister has a skewed sense of a relationship with them. She feels far more for them than they ever have for her... . or she professes to, anyway. She is an adept liar so I can't tell. There is also the question of her eventually using them as enablers. And to add one more thing... . she is in contact with a severely mentally ill cousin, who does not comply with treatment and who I also believe is borderline... he is even worse, he gets physically abusive. When those two collude, they are twice as destructive. I set the boundary that Sis should never call me for help if she is in contact with the cousin... . which she promptly broke by simply lying and saying she wasn't in contact when she was, and calling us for "rescue" again. I have set no boundaries since... . just completely cut off contact. I tried to get in contact via email several weeks ago and when she was sure she had me hooked, she told a whopper of a lie that upset the entire family and forced me to do damage control within the family yet again. I'm not sure setting boundaries would solve anything, as even setting one didn't work. Ideally, I want my kids to have no contact with a person that destructive. But that can backfire when they get older, when Sis insinuates herself into their lives after a decade out of the picture.

There are my fears. Advice, anyone?

[cult]

What would be the benefits of allowing your children to have contact with your sister?

What would be the disadvantages?

Try writing out this list on paper and see if that helps you draw any conclusions. We can't tell you what to do, but we can share what our experiences have been.

[Sadi39]

Thank you for your reply. Weighing the advantages vs. the disadvantages makes sense.

[Turkish]

We did run into my sister once during the past two years. We saw her at my father's house. Her demeanor (wild-eyed and very manic) made my children uncomfortable... . my 12-yr old said she was "creeped out" by the way her aunt was following her, and she fled to our van and waited to leave. I do not want to force my children on a person that they don't really respect or care for

Hi Sadie39, I'll share something my T said to me regarding me getting our kids to talk to their uBPDx on the phone when she calls our house (DS4, DD2, joint custody).  He said, "the kids should not be made to talk to their mom, they should want to. Children should not be made responsible for the parent's feelings."

I think, especially based upon the fact that your 12 year old said she was creeped out, that you aren't under obligation to have them contact their aunt at all. If they want to, then that is another issue, and we can help and support you to establish clear and healthy boundaries.

Their aunt exhibits disordered behavior, the kids are afraid of it, and children at that age need to be protected.

[HappyChappy]

I would agrea with cult. List the pro's and con's - weight them with numbers and the biggest number wins. However, I note your post is full of cons.

I have recently gone NC with my Covert Narcassist brother. The only con was loss of a baby sitter and inheritance (he's rich). He was using triangulation on my kids, and we hadn't realised how extensivly he'd run down my 7 year old kid. To the point that when he hit our kid - he convinced others this 7 year old deserved it. He ganged up with my BPD Mom to encourage me to hit him - and be strickter ! Nothing wrong with my 7 year old, he was hit for licking his plate ! We all know there are issues with BPD. They're poison for our mental health - do your children need that ?

[StarStruck]

Hi Sadi39 -

From the outside looking in at my situation some people may have the opinion of; drastic measures but I wouldn't let anyone I cared about have anything to do with anyone that I knew to have a PD, or a strong thought that they are PD, diagnosed or not.

In my mind there is more to lose than what there is to gain. I don't expect that of myself, so the fringe benefit is that they would not have a relationship with her from the start. I know the major difference here is that they know her already. One thought if you did ban the aunt, if your children are well informed, when they are adults they will make the right choice which is best for them.

If you are sure about the picture do not let your fear stand in your way.

[P.F.Change]

Sometimes, people quote my own words back to me and it helps me see more than any explanation could have. Here are yours:

"the kids find her letters to them disturbing, as they are inappropriately intimate"

"she started feeding them anxiety-provoking stories of break-ins, robbery and fire."

"Her demeanor (wild-eyed and very manic) made my children uncomfortable... . my 12-yr old said she was "creeped out" by the way her aunt was following her, and she fled to our van and waited to leave."

What do you think your children need?

Wishing you peace,

PF