Will she ever "unpaint" me black?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

My ex had been diagnosed as bipolar and I never really would have guess that she was BPD until this past breakup. We had broken up once before for a month and a half last year and she didn't do any of the "splitting" or painting me black. We tried to remain friends and kept in touch, even though it was practically impossible bc we still had such strong feelings for each other. And the reason for our breakup was bc I told her of a girl I slept with when we had broken up for two days nearly a year before when she had her first nervous breakdown after being completely stable for two and a half years.

So I finally told her about the girl, she ended it with me, we were separated for about 6 weeks, and we didn't go NC and she didn't hate me like she does now. This time, I broke up with her bc she started coming unraveled again and starting arguments all the time and growing more unstable and seemed headed for another breakdown. I tried to do it is amicable as possible, and I was shocked at how she went from telling me the night I broke up with her that I was her soul mate (something she said all throughout our relationship) to how quickly she hated me, started dating a lesbian, took out false charges on me, and did everything she could to ruin my name. I just don't understand how she didn't show any of those stereotypical BPD signs last time we broke up and now her reaction seems textbook? Can anybody help shed some insight?

And does anybody have an experience where an ex stopped hating them/painting them black? Will there ever be a point where she stops lying to herself and everybody else about what happened and realizes that I really loved her and did everything I could to help her?

[lanfair]

My ex had been diagnosed as bipolar and I never really would have guess that she was BPD until this past breakup. We had broken up once before for a month and a half last year and she didn't do any of the "splitting" or painting me black. We tried to remain friends and kept in touch, even though it was practically impossible bc we still had such strong feelings for each other. And the reason for our breakup was bc I told her of a girl I slept with when we had broken up for two days nearly a year before when she had her first nervous breakdown after being completely stable for two and a half years.

So I finally told her about the girl, she ended it with me, we were separated for about 6 weeks, and we didn't go NC and she didn't hate me like she does now. This time, I broke up with her bc she started coming unraveled again and starting arguments all the time and growing more unstable and seemed headed for another breakdown. I tried to do it is amicable as possible, and I was shocked at how she went from telling me the night I broke up with her that I was her soul mate (something she said all throughout our relationship) to how quickly she hated me, started dating a lesbian, took out false charges on me, and did everything she could to ruin my name. I just don't understand how she didn't show any of those stereotypical BPD signs last time we broke up and now her reaction seems textbook? Can anybody help shed some insight?

And does anybody have an experience where an ex stopped hating them/painting them black? Will there ever be a point where she stops lying to herself and everybody else about what happened and realizes that I really loved her and did everything I could to help her?

[Infared]

Sure... . (in my experience) she will unpaint you... . if and only if it serves her needs... . may be for a moment (we are talking seconds or minutes here), a day, a week... . as long as she has some need to control or whatever. She will not unpaint you to others and if she interacts with you she will re-tell the story omitting facts and changing reality... . always in a way that puts her in a good light and you, well ... . who cares?  You have been used up and are only considered for entertainment purposes... .

At least that is what I went through.

I positively, absolutely have NC... . even if I am "tracked down" in the market, no way no how will I interact with her... . it is not healthy for "me". Took a REALLY long time for me to own that.

[christoff522]

My ex had been diagnosed as bipolar and I never really would have guess that she was BPD until this past breakup. We had broken up once before for a month and a half last year and she didn't do any of the "splitting" or painting me black. We tried to remain friends and kept in touch, even though it was practically impossible bc we still had such strong feelings for each other. And the reason for our breakup was bc I told her of a girl I slept with when we had broken up for two days nearly a year before when she had her first nervous breakdown after being completely stable for two and a half years.

So I finally told her about the girl, she ended it with me, we were separated for about 6 weeks, and we didn't go NC and she didn't hate me like she does now. This time, I broke up with her bc she started coming unraveled again and starting arguments all the time and growing more unstable and seemed headed for another breakdown. I tried to do it is amicable as possible, and I was shocked at how she went from telling me the night I broke up with her that I was her soul mate (something she said all throughout our relationship) to how quickly she hated me, started dating a lesbian, took out false charges on me, and did everything she could to ruin my name. I just don't understand how she didn't show any of those stereotypical BPD signs last time we broke up and now her reaction seems textbook? Can anybody help shed some insight?

And does anybody have an experience where an ex stopped hating them/painting them black? Will there ever be a point where she stops lying to herself and everybody else about what happened and realizes that I really loved her and did everything I could to help her?

Sure it's possible, but not because she misses you and wants to make amends for what she's done. But because she wants something from you. She never had the strong feelings that you think she had. Those strong feelings were abandonment issues, infatuation and a strong dose of mirroring on your part. You had the strong feelings, and she - she used them for her own ends. Whether it be financial, spiritual or even just attention. Whatever she desired she took it and ran.

The only attention you are likely to get now will be the occasional acknowledgement of your existence, you may become an emotional punchbag if theres no one else around, or if a current squeeze tells her to jog on.

You need to understand your position here, you're a victim of abuse, your current understanding of the situation is limited by your own perceptions and understanding and the projection of your own desires. But what you're dealing with is akin to a praying mantis.

If you want her back, work on your confidence, self esteem, and find a hobby - it will make you look more attractive to her, more desirable prey.

But I'm pretty sure that if you read, learn, and garner some understanding internally about yourself and how she sees you, by the time she comes back after you you may be in a happy relationship.

[lanfair]

[/quote]
Sure it's possible, but not because she misses you and wants to make amends for what she's done. But because she wants something from you. She never had the strong feelings that you think she had. Those strong feelings were abandonment issues, infatuation and a strong dose of mirroring on your part. You had the strong feelings, and she - she used them for her own ends. Whether it be financial, spiritual or even just attention. Whatever she desired she took it and ran.

The only attention you are likely to get now will be the occasional acknowledgement of your existence, you may become an emotional punchbag if theres no one else around, or if a current squeeze tells her to jog on.

You need to understand your position here, you're a victim of abuse, your current understanding of the situation is limited by your own perceptions and understanding and the projection of your own desires. But what you're dealing with is akin to a praying mantis.

If you want her back, work on your confidence, self esteem, and find a hobby - it will make you look more attractive to her, more desirable prey.

But I'm pretty sure that if you read, learn, and garner some understanding internally about yourself and how she sees you, by the time she comes back after you you may be in a happy relationship.[/quote]
I'm really hoping to be in a happy relationship if she does come back around. I guess I'm posting this because I'm still trying to accept that she's BPD and it's a lost cause. My ex before I would say was definitely BPD and she exhibited the signs of it pretty quickly, but she was gorgeous and I overlooked all of the red flags early on bc I had had a crush on her for years before ever really getting know her (same social cirles) and she was gorgeous. When I met my most current ex, I was still reeling from the breakup with my ex a couple months before, so I was the one that had walls up and was emotionally unavailable and not very affectionate for a long time. She adored me and everybody could see it, while I struggled for the first couple years to let her in bc I had so many walls up after my last relationship, which only lasted 6 months of nonstop chaos. Things between me and my recent ex were so stable and she seemed to be so much more in love with me than I was with her, so whatever needs she was getting out of couldn't be much bc she always begging me to let her in more. She was unmedicated and not seeing a therapist during those first two and half years and I really had no clues as to mental illness until she started breaking down due to work stressors and ended up getting placed on Wellbutrin which made her manic for weeks and then crash. She was diagnosed as bipolar then and spent some time in intensive outpatient. We did argue more after that, vs never really arguing at all the first couple years. Even when she broke up with me bc I told her about the other girl she would always maintain she knew in her heart we were meant to be together and she didn't date anybody in the month and half we were split up. All signs pointed to her being typically bipolar until she started coming unraveled again and messing up her living situation, job, etc, and had to move in with me. The arguing became constant and the only thing different about this breakup was that *I* ended it this time. And she immediately painted me black, jumped into a lesbian relationship in spite of saying several times over the years she didn't understand how an adult could suddenly decide to date the same sex. And she has done nothing but make up lies, dye her hair rainbow colors, trump up ridiculous charges against me, etc.

It was this suddenly new side of her that screamed out BPD symptoms, so I'm struggling with whether she really is bipolar and has had a psychotic break like she did last time she went to the psych ward and the only difference this time is that I left her during the middle of it, which made her fully snap and detach from reality, or if she BPD even though she never really showed the symptoms until now.

Either way, with the court problems and things she's done and said, I know I can never trust her or be with her again, but it has seriously crushed my self-esteem. I have a couple friends who have bipolar exes that ran off and got into relationships immediately, only to try to come back when the relationship failed. I know I can't take her back, but my ego has this needy desire to hear her come back and say she messed up and she realizes how good she had it with me, like I've seen happen with my buddies and their bipolar exes. I know that's pretty unhealthy on my part, but the thought of her being BPD and never coming back or realizing that we were both able to sustain a happy relationship with each other longer than either of us had before really bothers me. I'm seeing two different therapists working through what I realize is PTSD and hopefully I will be able to let go of the desire to feel validated by her attempting to return. That's the sick part in me that I need to work on.

It's sad bc I am literally on vacation with my family in Hawaii and it is paradise, and yet all of a sudden last night at a luau watching all the happy couples together really just set off my anxiety and depression and I startled awake this morning from a nightmare about her and her new gf and had to take a xanax just to calm down so I can enjoy the day with my family.

[lanfair]

It's been two months since the breakup and we dated for almost four years, which is probably longer than all of my adult relationships combined since I usually don't settle down for long, so I know expecting to be over even a more normal 4 year relationship in two months is unrealistic, but I really hope I can get to a place where I stop searching for answers to questions that I probably never will get. The most painful part is for all intents and purposes she seems to be having the time of her life and completely infatuated with this new girl she's only known for a month. Granted, everybody else in our circle thinks she has gone full flight from reality, but she seems either blissfully unaware or will cut out of her life even close friends who bother to point out any of her radical changes in behavior. It's horrible to watch what was seemingly the sweetest and most loving girl I ever met go so far off the deep end and make such drastic choices and lose good friends and most likely soon lose the three and a half years of sobriety she worked so hard for since all she does is club now with a gf who drinks. But I guess I need to work harder on accepting that the sweet and loving girl I thought she was was really only infatuation.

Thanks for reading the wall of text and the feedback.

[mitti]

It seems to vary from person to person. Many pwBPDs seem to triangulate people they are involved with so of course that will feel like they only come back around when the replacement is painted black and they need something, to fill that void with somebody else. But then again, are we not also with them because of our "need" for them, also more or less selfish - on some level they make us feel better or we are hoping to feel better.

My uBPDxbf split and unsplit people all the time. The closer they are to him and the more affection he feels for them, the more likely they are to be split black for longer. He never went back with anybody else before me as in a r/s but he has remained friends with exes after having painted them black for a period of time. He has split me several times and each time lasted longer. Currently he has had me painted black for over a year, and before then, the longest was 7 months and before then 7 weeks. But I expect there will be a time when he will want to communicate again.

[christoff522]

I'm really hoping to be in a happy relationship if she does come back around. I guess I'm posting this because I'm still trying to accept that she's BPD and it's a lost cause. My ex before I would say was definitely BPD and she exhibited the signs of it pretty quickly, but she was gorgeous and I overlooked all of the red flags early on bc I had had a crush on her for years before ever really getting know her (same social cirles) and she was gorgeous.

There is always that possibility that you're projecting the previous relationship into this one, however - there is well documented evidence that co-dependents attract BPDs, and/or are attracted to them. We're fixers and will tend to hang around folks that need fixing. Substance abusers/abuse victims/teen mothers etc who will consist of a not so small percentage of borderlines and histrionics.

When I met my most current ex, I was still reeling from the breakup with my ex a couple months before, so I was the one that had walls up and was emotionally unavailable and not very affectionate for a long time. She adored me and everybody could see it, while I struggled for the first couple years to let her in bc I had so many walls up after my last relationship, which only lasted 6 months of nonstop chaos. Things between me and my recent ex were so stable and she seemed to be so much more in love with me than I was with her, so whatever needs she was getting out of couldn't be much bc she always begging me to let her in more.

I sense a dash of self-blame here "I was the one that had walls up and was emotionally unavailable". Is that definitely the truth? Or am I instead reading the words of your abuser? If you were so bad why are you here trying to make sense of it all? Maybe if she had not of been so cruel and inconsiderate you could have let down the walls.  What I'm actually seeing here is someone who 'needs love' - Somebody who's depressed and lonely, and is shouldering a lot of guilt for something that you experienced when you were most vulnerable. From one demon to another. She was begging you to let her in more, because she wanted you to feel shame for being a bad boyfriend. When in fact she was projecting herself onto you. In any normal relationship of four years, you would be well over even a BPD. So drop the blame of yourself, and accept that she was the b!tch to YOU not the other way around.

She was unmedicated and not seeing a therapist during those first two and half years and I really had no clues as to mental illness until she started breaking down due to work stressors and ended up getting placed on Wellbutrin which made her manic for weeks and then crash. She was diagnosed as bipolar then and spent some time in intensive outpatient. We did argue more after that, vs never really arguing at all the first couple years.

You did have clues to her being insane, you chose to ignore them, bury them, because you didn't want to face the facts. Completely understandable for someone suffering trauma. You were the stoic, quiet type. Often BPD can be misdiagnosed as bi-polar, it shares many common facets including psychosis in some patients. In fact BPD psychosis can be just as powerful as bi-polar. I remember once mine lying in bed and we were skyping one another and suddenly she says "I can hear people outside laughing", this was about 4am, and she was so certain that she could hear it that she asked me to listen, she went quiet, and there was nothing and she was like "you can't hear that?". There was no one there. But she was certain she could hear it, loudly. Now skype is really, really high quality and I could hear her mum milling about the place, I could make out the TV in the background - but as I've read before, BPDs are crazier, and less curable than bi-polars, schizophrenics and psychotics. Likely you two argued more because she became more certain you would leave knowing this. She had to start disliking you more - basically as a shield in case you ran off. She was building walls.

Even when she broke up with me bc I told her about the other girl she would always maintain she knew in her heart we were meant to be together and she didn't date anybody in the month and half we were split up. All signs pointed to her being typically bipolar until she started coming unraveled again and messing up her living situation, job, etc, and had to move in with me. The arguing became constant and the only thing different about this breakup was that *I* ended it this time. And she immediately painted me black, jumped into a lesbian relationship in spite of saying several times over the years she didn't understand how an adult could suddenly decide to date the same sex. And she has done nothing but make up lies, dye her hair rainbow colors, trump up ridiculous charges against me, etc.

They always say this stuff. Every guy that a BPD girl goes with is 'the one', mine told me the same thing, same words. Often the crazy behaviour, the acting weird out in public, the facade she puts on for others, the talking really fast etc - its mistaken for Bi-polar. I can understand why you thought that. You see BPD is a personality disorder - it's who she is. Bi-polar is a chemical imbalance. You take a BPD to the hospital, and unless your doctor is pretty extraordinary, he's going to pick bipolar over BPD any day. BPDs are the bane of psychologists, they're dangerous and irrational, most psychs will have no more than 2 or 3 on their client sheets because they are deemed incurable by most because when a BPD goes to a psych, they are not interested in being cured, they're interested in Triangulation, manipulating, and even seducing. It takes a rare BPD to want to seek help. For a BPD a psych is treated as someone to offload onto, and when confronted they can go off the rails. I read somewhere that many psychologists have said that of the many disorders they encounter, they're actually afraid of BPDs.

In a twisted world, she probably only said that because she was curious. My BPD continually used to say that "all men are d**ks, I hate men" - yet she continually pursued them. She may have said she couldn't understand why, maybe that led her to want to try it out. She's just trying out something new to fulfil that desire to belong. Now she has a completely new community of people just like her! Plus a gf! Wow she's cool   Don't let it get to you, she's twisted.

It was this suddenly new side of her that screamed out BPD symptoms, so I'm struggling with whether she really is bipolar and has had a psychotic break like she did last time she went to the psych ward and the only difference this time is that I left her during the middle of it, which made her fully snap and detach from reality, or if she BPD even though she never really showed the symptoms until now.

Nope, you've just seen the other side of her. A psychotic break wouldn't present this behaviour. This is 'typical' BPD behaviour. And I know you think this, but she will have presented lots of signs of her having BPD, but they were just mistaken for bipolar. Bipolars have manic episodes, so do BPDs, Bipolars have mood swings, so do BPDs, Bipolars can present as aggressive and even dangerous, so can BPDs. The difference between bipolars and BPDs, is bipolars won't mean it, and it is a real chemical imbalance. BPDs present these traits all the time, and tend to be aware of their behaviour, and compartmentalise. bipolars can lead a relatively normal life, have proper loving relationships, whilst BPDs are too shallow and have no real sense of self, and will never ever ever lead a normal life.

Either way, with the court problems and things she's done and said, I know I can never trust her or be with her again, but it has seriously crushed my self-esteem. I have a couple friends who have bipolar exes that ran off and got into relationships immediately, only to try to come back when the relationship failed. I know I can't take her back, but my ego has this needy desire to hear her come back and say she messed up and she realizes how good she had it with me, like I've seen happen with my buddies and their bipolar exes. I know that's pretty unhealthy on my part, but the thought of her being BPD and never coming back or realizing that we were both able to sustain a happy relationship with each other longer than either of us had before really bothers me. I'm seeing two different therapists working through what I realize is PTSD and hopefully I will be able to let go of the desire to feel validated by her attempting to return. That's the sick part in me that I need to work on.

It's sad bc I am literally on vacation with my family in Hawaii and it is paradise, and yet all of a sudden last night at a luau watching all the happy couples together really just set off my anxiety and depression and I startled awake this morning from a nightmare about her and her new gf and had to take a xanax just to calm down so I can enjoy the day with my family.

And there you go. This is the issue you're dealing with. PTSD, anxiety and depression. My words can't really help you. But I just want you to read this, and understand that its going to get better. But you must make a covenant with yourself never ever ever to instigate contact with her. I know right now you don't want to, but you must. That will be the beginning of closure for you.

You have such a low opinion of yourself, that you would rather be with her, and pretend to be a happy couple, but would it ever be like that now? Imagine she did come back, could you deal with that?

You're a good man, truly good, thats why she picked you. You have anxiety and depression - thats another reason she picked you. When you first met she watched you like a hawk, she eyed you up, watched your body language, listened to the tone of your voice, heard every word you said - to judge whether you were a suitable guy (prey) for her. She then tested the water over the next few months to see what boundaries she was able to cross, considering the length of your relationship, she probably crossed quite a few. In your vulnerable state you were probably quite absent from the relationship mentally, allowing her more access to you. What you accepted as normal, a more confident person who hadn't just come out of another BPD relationship would have seen as 

The fact you're in such a bad state now - it says it all. Were you like this before you encountered the BPDs?

You've basically had it twice. What seemed like a princess presented itself as a demonic beast. Now its time to begin and maintain no contact. Eventually you will start to see the red flags as you go through the recovery. You'll remember the little things. Right now its just a mental fog - and a case of FOG (fear obligation and guilt).

[christoff522]

It's been two months since the breakup and we dated for almost four years, which is probably longer than all of my adult relationships combined since I usually don't settle down for long, so I know expecting to be over even a more normal 4 year relationship in two months is unrealistic, but I really hope I can get to a place where I stop searching for answers to questions that I probably never will get. The most painful part is for all intents and purposes she seems to be having the time of her life and completely infatuated with this new girl she's only known for a month. Granted, everybody else in our circle thinks she has gone full flight from reality, but she seems either blissfully unaware or will cut out of her life even close friends who bother to point out any of her radical changes in behavior. It's horrible to watch what was seemingly the sweetest and most loving girl I ever met go so far off the deep end and make such drastic choices and lose good friends and most likely soon lose the three and a half years of sobriety she worked so hard for since all she does is club now with a gf who drinks. But I guess I need to work harder on accepting that the sweet and loving girl I thought she was was really only infatuation.

Thanks for reading the wall of text and the feedback.

Eventually you will be like me, reading about BPD endlessly

Rumination is perfectly normal, you will rose tint the whole thing, everything will seem like it was so much better. you are basically in denial right now - you don't really want it to be over, hence the "will she ever unpaint me black" thread.

The most painful part is for all intents and purposes she seems to be having the time of her life and completely infatuated with this new girl she's only known for a month

She's not having the time of her life. Trust me on this. She is putting on a facade for the world at large. But she's also pushed the boundaries, and if she's not actually homosexual - wow - the shame that she will get from this will be so immense when its over. I personally don't think she is. BPDs are promiscuous by nature, and will do ANYTHING to get their kicks, but it all builds up over time in shame and guilt.

Granted, everybody else in our circle thinks she has gone full flight from reality, but she seems either blissfully unaware or will cut out of her life even close friends who bother to point out any of her radical changes in behavior.

There you go, those people trigger shame, so... she blocks them from her life. To escape such feelings she would block anyone and everyone she has ever known and go and find herself new friends. Its self defense, survival instinct.

----

To answer the rest of that post, BPDs often drink and take drugs. 3 and a half years of sobriety -- I bet thats gone already. Its possible she only did that to keep you happy. drink and drugs are an escape from emotions. Pain-numb-ers.

BPDs do not ever feel love, they receive it from others as a validation for their existence... but they cannot give it. It never goes beyond a childish crush. My BPD called it "attachment". She said she was "attached" to me, and she hated it. "I hate how much I need you". Still makes me smile today thinking about it. The language that little lady could come out with. "You always f***in do this, you f*** me up you f*** me up I hate you". This little hairdressing student, who when I first met her I never would have imagined that she could give me panic attacks just by being around me. I was actually scared of her because of the power she seemed to have over me. I was always terrified of losing her. I knew somehow inside she was going to leave one day. So I could never get comfortable. It was never 'finalised'. It was like we were always talking about what would be 'one day'. Of course this is her childish nature. But I think it takes a lot for a BPD to ever get into a relationship. BPDs hate commitment, because commitment means, well... that they have to be committed - and thus they risk vulnerability and possible abandonment. Thats why they cannot love, because if they loved and that relationship collapsed - well... . the pain would be so unbearable they would lose themselves, and well... that would mean death - that is the only way actual love could end as far as a BPD is concerned. For them, the only stable emotion they have is hate. For a BPD hate is easy.

But anyway

Now is time to work on you. Nothing you ever could have done would permanently change her. But you can always work on yourself and make positive changes so that you can have a healthy relationship with an actual human being.

[lanfair]

There is always that possibility that you're projecting the previous relationship into this one, however - there is well documented evidence that co-dependents attract BPDs, and/or are attracted to them. We're fixers and will tend to hang around folks that need fixing. Substance abusers/abuse victims/teen mothers etc who will consist of a not so small percentage of borderlines and histrionics.

I was definitely being co-dependent on her in the beginning since I met her so recently after the devastating breakup from my ex. I kept waiting for the veneer to come off like it usually does because prior to this none of my adult relationships have lasted longer than six months. A lot of that has to do with my own being a recovering alcoholic/drug addict with six years sober. So when she only seemed to grow more intensely in love with me and idealize me, I thought, 'Wow. I've finally found someone different. This is a girl that is completely devoted to me and won't leave me. Because I have struggled with abandonment issues going back to when I was a kid. But I have to admit I never seemed to fall passionately in love with her like she appeared to be with me and I would often wonder if I could see myself spending the rest of my life with her like she would say she wanted to with me. I never could put my finger on why. I loved her logically bc she treated me so well and did so many thoughtful and considerate things all of the time, while I rarely returned the sentiment or affection.


I sense a dash of self-blame here "I was the one that had walls up and was emotionally unavailable". Is that definitely the truth? Or am I instead reading the words of your abuser? If you were so bad why are you here trying to make sense of it all? Maybe if she had not of been so cruel and inconsiderate you could have let down the walls.  What I'm actually seeing here is someone who 'needs love' - Somebody who's depressed and lonely, and is shouldering a lot of guilt for something that you experienced when you were most vulnerable. From one demon to another. She was begging you to let her in more, because she wanted you to feel shame for being a bad boyfriend. When in fact she was projecting herself onto you. In any normal relationship of four years, you would be well over even a BPD. So drop the blame of yourself, and accept that she was the b!tch to YOU not the other way around.

She was definitely the b___ to me more often after she had her breakdown and went to the psych ward, and it really intensified after we split up and got back together. I dunno if it's because I finally broke down after a month and a half of being separated and told her I needed her and wanted to spend my life with her and she finally knew for sure that I did love her as much as she loved me, but things definitely got worse during those last six months after the reconciliation, especially after she lost her apartment and I let her move in with me because her family wouldn't take her in. But if I am honest with myself, for the majority of our relationship, I genuinely wasn't very affectionate. I rarely cuddled with her or held her hand or randomly kissed her. I had a lot of walls up bc I got walked all over in my previous relationship and was adamant about not letting it happen again.


You did have clues to her being insane, you chose to ignore them, bury them, because you didn't want to face the facts. Completely understandable for someone suffering trauma. You were the stoic, quiet type. Often BPD can be misdiagnosed as bi-polar, it shares many common facets including psychosis in some patients. In fact BPD psychosis can be just as powerful as bi-polar. I remember once mine lying in bed and we were skyping one another and suddenly she says "I can hear people outside laughing", this was about 4am, and she was so certain that she could hear it that she asked me to listen, she went quiet, and there was nothing and she was like "you can't hear that?". There was no one there. But she was certain she could hear it, loudly. Now skype is really, really high quality and I could hear her mum milling about the place, I could make out the TV in the background - but as I've read before, BPDs are crazier, and less curable than bi-polars, schizophrenics and psychotics. Likely you two argued more because she became more certain you would leave knowing this. She had to start disliking you more - basically as a shield in case you ran off. She was building walls.

I definitely was the stoic, quiet one. That is my personality in general. And she would have the psychotic episodes where she heard voices and was afraid to be alone at her apartment bc she thought she would hurt herself, so she would come over to my place and take a tranquilizer while I stayed up all night worried she would wake up and stab one of us. This was leading up to her trip to the psych ward.

Even when she broke up with me bc I told her about the other girl she would always maintain she knew in her heart we were meant to be together and she didn't date anybody in the month and half we were split up. All signs pointed to her being typically bipolar until she started coming unraveled again and messing up her living situation, job, etc, and had to move in with me. The arguing became constant and the only thing different about this breakup was that *I* ended it this time. And she immediately painted me black, jumped into a lesbian relationship in spite of saying several times over the years she didn't understand how an adult could suddenly decide to date the same sex. And she has done nothing but make up lies, dye her hair rainbow colors, trump up ridiculous charges against me, etc.

They always say this stuff. Every guy that a BPD girl goes with is 'the one', mine told me the same thing, same words. Often the crazy behaviour, the acting weird out in public, the facade she puts on for others, the talking really fast etc - its mistaken for Bi-polar. I can understand why you thought that. You see BPD is a personality disorder - it's who she is. Bi-polar is a chemical imbalance. You take a BPD to the hospital, and unless your doctor is pretty extraordinary, he's going to pick bipolar over BPD any day. BPDs are the bane of psychologists, they're dangerous and irrational, most psychs will have no more than 2 or 3 on their client sheets because they are deemed incurable by most because when a BPD goes to a psych, they are not interested in being cured, they're interested in Triangulation, manipulating, and even seducing. It takes a rare BPD to want to seek help. For a BPD a psych is treated as someone to offload onto, and when confronted they can go off the rails. I read somewhere that many psychologists have said that of the many disorders they encounter, they're actually afraid of BPDs.

In a twisted world, she probably only said that because she was curious. My BPD continually used to say that "all men are d**ks, I hate men" - yet she continually pursued them. She may have said she couldn't understand why, maybe that led her to want to try it out. She's just trying out something new to fulfil that desire to belong. Now she has a completely new community of people just like her! Plus a gf! Wow she's cool   Don't let it get to you, she's twisted.

You're spot on with that. She has more or less completely broken away from AA. I heard she hadn't been seen at any AA meetings for a month, even the ones the court told me not to go to bc she listed them as her regular meetings. I've heard in the last two weeks she has been showing up at our old home group meeting, presumably to meet with her sponsor. But basically she has replaced all of her old social circle in AA with these new friends she's met through her new gf at the gay clubs and bars and I'm sure they're all providing her with validation.

It was this suddenly new side of her that screamed out BPD symptoms, so I'm struggling with whether she really is bipolar and has had a psychotic break like she did last time she went to the psych ward and the only difference this time is that I left her during the middle of it, which made her fully snap and detach from reality, or if she BPD even though she never really showed the symptoms until now.

Nope, you've just seen the other side of her. A psychotic break wouldn't present this behaviour. This is 'typical' BPD behaviour. And I know you think this, but she will have presented lots of signs of her having BPD, but they were just mistaken for bipolar. Bipolars have manic episodes, so do BPDs, Bipolars have mood swings, so do BPDs, Bipolars can present as aggressive and even dangerous, so can BPDs. The difference between bipolars and BPDs, is bipolars won't mean it, and it is a real chemical imbalance. BPDs present these traits all the time, and tend to be aware of their behaviour, and compartmentalise. bipolars can lead a relatively normal life, have proper loving relationships, whilst BPDs are too shallow and have no real sense of self, and will never ever ever lead a normal life.

Either way, with the court problems and things she's done and said, I know I can never trust her or be with her again, but it has seriously crushed my self-esteem. I have a couple friends who have bipolar exes that ran off and got into relationships immediately, only to try to come back when the relationship failed. I know I can't take her back, but my ego has this needy desire to hear her come back and say she messed up and she realizes how good she had it with me, like I've seen happen with my buddies and their bipolar exes. I know that's pretty unhealthy on my part, but the thought of her being BPD and never coming back or realizing that we were both able to sustain a happy relationship with each other longer than either of us had before really bothers me. I'm seeing two different therapists working through what I realize is PTSD and hopefully I will be able to let go of the desire to feel validated by her attempting to return. That's the sick part in me that I need to work on.

It's sad bc I am literally on vacation with my family in Hawaii and it is paradise, and yet all of a sudden last night at a luau watching all the happy couples together really just set off my anxiety and depression and I startled awake this morning from a nightmare about her and her new gf and had to take a xanax just to calm down so I can enjoy the day with my family.

And there you go. This is the issue you're dealing with. PTSD, anxiety and depression. My words can't really help you. But I just want you to read this, and understand that its going to get better. But you must make a covenant with yourself never ever ever to instigate contact with her. I know right now you don't want to, but you must. That will be the beginning of closure for you.

You have such a low opinion of yourself, that you would rather be with her, and pretend to be a happy couple, but would it ever be like that now? Imagine she did come back, could you deal with that?

You're a good man, truly good, thats why she picked you. You have anxiety and depression - thats another reason she picked you. When you first met she watched you like a hawk, she eyed you up, watched your body language, listened to the tone of your voice, heard every word you said - to judge whether you were a suitable guy (prey) for her. She then tested the water over the next few months to see what boundaries she was able to cross, considering the length of your relationship, she probably crossed quite a few. In your vulnerable state you were probably quite absent from the relationship mentally, allowing her more access to you. What you accepted as normal, a more confident person who hadn't just come out of another BPD relationship would have seen as 

The fact you're in such a bad state now - it says it all. Were you like this before you encountered the BPDs?

You've basically had it twice. What seemed like a princess presented itself as a demonic beast. Now its time to begin and maintain no contact. Eventually you will start to see the red flags as you go through the recovery. You'll remember the little things. Right now its just a mental fog - and a case of FOG (fear obligation and guilt).

You're dead on again. I'm in the fog right now still trying to make sense of what seems like a sudden change, but had actually been a slow change over the last year that culminated in an extreme change of personality after I broke up with her. Right now my mind tries to play tricks on me and remember the good moments and gloss over the bad. Being on vacation has brought those good memories flooding forward because we had some really great times on beach vacations every year, and I'd never been on vacations like that with a gf before, so the beach and all the other sights and sounds bring back a flood of good memories. The good thing is I am working with two therapists who I will be meeting with as soon as I get back, and working with my AA sponsor, and have a good group of solid friends and family. I plan on writing down a list of all the bad times and needless arguments and trying to remember back as far as I can and see the red flags from earlier on that I must have overlooked so I can realize that this wasn't some sudden change. The sooner I can accept that she is sick and unlikely to change, the sooner I can cut my losses and stop looking backward. I definitely would agree I am suffering from PTSD and in a fog right now.

I thank you for your experience and the time you took to respond. This board really has been a godsend.

[christoff522]

Absolutely no problem, feel free to pm me if you need anything.

[Split black]

My ex had been diagnosed as bipolar and I never really would have guess that she was BPD until this past breakup. We had broken up once before for a month and a half last year and she didn't do any of the "splitting" or painting me black. We tried to remain friends and kept in touch, even though it was practically impossible bc we still had such strong feelings for each other. And the reason for our breakup was bc I told her of a girl I slept with when we had broken up for two days nearly a year before when she had her first nervous breakdown after being completely stable for two and a half years.

So I finally told her about the girl, she ended it with me, we were separated for about 6 weeks, and we didn't go NC and she didn't hate me like she does now. This time, I broke up with her bc she started coming unraveled again and starting arguments all the time and growing more unstable and seemed headed for another breakdown. I tried to do it is amicable as possible, and I was shocked at how she went from telling me the night I broke up with her that I was her soul mate (something she said all throughout our relationship) to how quickly she hated me, started dating a lesbian, took out false charges on me, and did everything she could to ruin my name. I just don't understand how she didn't show any of those stereotypical BPD signs last time we broke up and now her reaction seems textbook? Can anybody help shed some insight?

And does anybody have an experience where an ex stopped hating them/painting them black? Will there ever be a point where she stops lying to herself and everybody else about what happened and realizes that I really loved her and did everything I could to help her?

Well... . in one year I was split black and recycled 4 times. First time she just out of nowhere said I cant be with you anymore... . out of fu*king nowhere. I was so upset. Went NC. Two weeks later she calls and texts that she wants to see me and needs me in her life. Like a puppy I went.  

Next time she just straight up blackmailed me for money. What leverage did she have. Well... . Im an established guy in my community and she was going to spread lies about me. She was very specific. I caved in and gave her some money and I had pain meds a script because I had hip surgery. Never used them, hated them. She would self medicate constantly with booze, pills, coke and weed.

I went NC... . I was so disgusted. But then the texts came rolling in again. Never an apology... just saying things like she missed me. I ignored as long as I could but she put a spell on me like no other. We got back together.

THEN... . SHE DID IT AGAIN. Blackmailed. This time I did not cave, but I started to go to close friends and associates and explained my eh problem.  She didnt smear... .  I went NC and a few weeks later the texts started and I went crawling back.I was just a sphincter for her affection. Starved and quite ptsd at this point im sure.

And finally... . I busted her several times with a guy... and as it turns out during our entire relationship I was triangulated or quadruplicated to the point I couldn't deal with it. So I laid into her hard. Ripped her apart very articulately and coldly. She of course blamed me for her cheating and lying... .

So she smeared mercilessly... . ruinous evil lies to everyone that would listen. She about destroyed my career but thankfully that didnt happen.

Now what... .  shes back with her ex who she hated... they were back and forth for 4 years. And she split me black and hates me... . I am her projection target for all her self loathing. And WHY do I know this... . because after 3 months of NC  I now have 91... . yes 91 texts from her on my cell... . mostly venomous and demonizing, hating, and shes completely re written history. And yet, this LC, low contact is escalating... . she asked me for money, shes said shes bored, she wants me to "be her wheelz" her to " connects" place to by an illegal white substance. Her car isnt doing well... . so she needs something and cant use her bf. They are on all kinds of 12 step programs together. These were his terms for taking her back. Probably a good thing but shes doing it out of pure terror of being alone.  Like a childish fool I have put myself in positions, in the past, which compromised my safety and livelihood. And of course all this right after telling me she asks her ex to marry her all the time and shes so in love... . but hes an ass who doesn't treat her well, and she is flirting with a DJ... . but at least she told him... . THAT is the type of conversation she has with me... .

Oh and she said in the past, unsolicited, that we can never be friends, and she is disgusted at the thought of having sex with me ,and to never bring it up ever again... . I didnt!  ( of course this is the opposite of everything she said and did with me)  

AND... . I actually feel like Im losing in my battle to not go see her. I hate her, but I love her, and I miss her. Was like being on a roller coaster, and now riding a bike is boring. As much as anything I was addicted to her drama. So who is crazier?

To answer your question... . yes, its possible she will stop painting you black, but it will only be to torture and use you. Yeah, if you have an endless capacity for suffering like me, and no rock bottom, and you kind of hate yourself... . sure yeah... maybe. I know its what you want. Just DON'T.  BUT... . If your asking will your honeymoon phase ever come back, will she be the sweet seducing girl you first met that hooked you... . never.

[Infared]

Thanks everyone for speaking so honestly about what I want to call our addiction to our BPD's.

All the recycling to be abused and not standing up for ourselves in a healthy, self-esteemed, self-preserving way. 

I have gone totally NC for a VERY long time... . and my ex will still try to walk up to me in public places (only when she is alone and not with my replacement).  I always just put my head down and get to a place of safety... . FINALLY my survival instinct took over from deep down within... . but at times, I think... . "am I being a dick, maybe I should talk to her" (oh... and maybe I should go see if I could go have one drink... . and the results would be different than all the other million times?).

Reading what you all have to say keeps me green and "smart". You guys are empowering me to put my head down and get out of Dodge the next time I am approached, like my life depends on it... . um... . because it does!

THANKS!

[bruised]

I plan on writing down a list of all the bad times and needless arguments and trying to remember back as far as I can and see the red flags from earlier on that I must have overlooked so I can realize that this wasn't some sudden change.

Dude,

Don't plan on it- DO IT. I complied a "Sh*t List" of all the hurtful/weird/manipulative things my ex-friend did to me. This has two big benefits. Firstly, it is a cathartic experience. It's like cutting a snake bite and draining out the venom. Secondly, you will have it there to read whenever you feel the urge to contact her. Whenever I felt myself softening, one read of my SL would set me back on the right path. Also, once I started writing my SL I found that recounting some events would bring up memories of other events that I had forgotten/buried. You start to see patterns forming on the page in front of you that you hadn't seen before.

I'm in a good place now, so I don't read the list all that often. However, while I was detaching it was invaluable.

Go for it!

[lanfair]

Well... . in one year I was split black and recycled 4 times. First time she just out of nowhere said I cant be with you anymore... . out of fu*king nowhere. I was so upset. Went NC. Two weeks later she calls and texts that she wants to see me and needs me in her life. Like a puppy I went.  

Next time she just straight up blackmailed me for money. What leverage did she have. Well... . Im an established guy in my community and she was going to spread lies about me. She was very specific. I caved in and gave her some money and I had pain meds a script because I had hip surgery. Never used them, hated them. She would self medicate constantly with booze, pills, coke and weed.

I went NC... . I was so disgusted. But then the texts came rolling in again. Never an apology... just saying things like she missed me. I ignored as long as I could but she put a spell on me like no other. We got back together.

THEN... . SHE DID IT AGAIN. Blackmailed. This time I did not cave, but I started to go to close friends and associates and explained my eh problem.  She didnt smear... .  I went NC and a few weeks later the texts started and I went crawling back.I was just a sphincter for her affection. Starved and quite ptsd at this point im sure.

And finally... . I busted her several times with a guy... and as it turns out during our entire relationship I was triangulated or quadruplicated to the point I couldn't deal with it. So I laid into her hard. Ripped her apart very articulately and coldly. She of course blamed me for her cheating and lying... .

So she smeared mercilessly... . ruinous evil lies to everyone that would listen. She about destroyed my career but thankfully that didnt happen.

Now what... .  shes back with her ex who she hated... they were back and forth for 4 years. And she split me black and hates me... . I am her projection target for all her self loathing. And WHY do I know this... . because after 3 months of NC  I now have 91... . yes 91 texts from her on my cell... . mostly venomous and demonizing, hating, and shes completely re written history. And yet, this LC, low contact is escalating... . she asked me for money, shes said shes bored, she wants me to "be her wheelz" her to " connects" place to by an illegal white substance. Her car isnt doing well... . so she needs something and cant use her bf. They are on all kinds of 12 step programs together. These were his terms for taking her back. Probably a good thing but shes doing it out of pure terror of being alone.  Like a childish fool I have put myself in positions, in the past, which compromised my safety and livelihood. And of course all this right after telling me she asks her ex to marry her all the time and shes so in love... . but hes an ass who doesn't treat her well, and she is flirting with a DJ... . but at least she told him... . THAT is the type of conversation she has with me... .

Oh and she said in the past, unsolicited, that we can never be friends, and she is disgusted at the thought of having sex with me ,and to never bring it up ever again... . I didnt!  ( of course this is the opposite of everything she said and did with me)  

AND... . I actually feel like Im losing in my battle to not go see her. I hate her, but I love her, and I miss her. Was like being on a roller coaster, and now riding a bike is boring. As much as anything I was addicted to her drama. So who is crazier?

To answer your question... . yes, its possible she will stop painting you black, but it will only be to torture and use you. Yeah, if you have an endless capacity for suffering like me, and no rock bottom, and you kind of hate yourself... . sure yeah... maybe. I know its what you want. Just DON'T.  BUT... . If your asking will your honeymoon phase ever come back, will she be the sweet seducing girl you first met that hooked you... . never. [/quote]
This is what my ex has done to me. I guess it's what I find so utterly baffling bc she didn't split and paint me black last time we broke up when I told her about another girl, but this time when I decided I couldn't take the constant arguing anymore over made up stuff, the increasing attempts to control my every move, up to the point that after I let her move in with me after she lost her apt, she started demanding that I make a daily schedule of everything I would be doing that day so we would coordinate our schedules, and her going off on me then blaming me for not understanding her being bipolar and "having no compassion", only to come back and apologize later, she went from telling me the night I dumped her she knew in her heart I was her soul mate and we were meant to spend our lives together to straight out hateful within a matter of a day or two. Within two weeks (maybe less), she was dating a lesbian, and she has done everything she can to smear my name to anybody who will listen. Thankfully, her actions have been so extreme, suddenly jumping into a lesbian relationship two weeks out of a four year relationship with a guy she publicly adored, dyeing her hair rainbow colors, etc, that anybody who knows the both of us doesn't believe her. They see me acting consistently and her going off the deep end and everybody can see the truth of the situation.

Unfortunately, I had to file an EPO on her when she had her dad sending me death threats by text on my birthday (because I had dropped off a bag of the rest of her belongings and every gift and card she'd ever gave me on her porch earlier that day bc she refused to come get them and kept telling me to put them on her porch; when I did I get death threats. Go figure.), and she responded by filing an EPO in response that same night full of lies that I had physically abused her several times and was stalking her. When we went to court her lesbian gf came to perjure and lie for her saying she witnessed the abuse, so she won a DVO against me for a year, so I definitely have all the incentive in the world to maintain NC with her bc I'm pretty certain she would have me locked up in a heartbeat. I also doubt she will be brave enough to break the DVO and contact me, but then again, I would have never guessed in a million years she would have done any of the stuff she has done since we broke up, so what do I know?

I do agree with what somebody said earlier, I do not think she is a lesbian and when she comes out of this little experiment she will feel pretty embarrassed. She met that girl and another gay friend through school a few weeks before we broke up and started clubbing with them, always wanting me to go, but I would decline. I'm pretty sure her new gf was putting ideas in her head from the get go and was oh so kind to be there for her when our relationship fell apart and make her move. I've seen similar situations happen several other times with friends that were women and ended up briefly experimenting with same sex relationships after a nasty breakup.

Unfortunately, she also took out completely false criminal stalking charges on me before we even went to court for the EPO. There's not an ounce of truth to them, but I still have to pay a lot of money to a lawyer to represent me on those charges and we go to court July 1st. For all I know the new gf will come to lie at that hearing too.

I suppose I am a glutton for abuse bc I still waste time worrying about her and if she's staying sober and whether this entire new circle of virtual strangers she's around are leading her down a terrible path given her history of substance abuse, when really I shouldn't give a damn what happens to her bc she sure doesn't seem to be wasting any time worrying or caring about me. I can't truthfully say at this point if she showed up at my door or called me I wouldn't engage her, as embarrassing as that is. My friends and family would NEVER welcome her back and would lose a ton respect for me if I ever gave her the time of day again. I really would have to have the lowest self-esteem in the world and be as delusional as her to believe it would be any different. I look forward to the day that I can just let go and stop beating myself up over the "why's?", "what ifs?" and "how come's?".

[lanfair]

I plan on writing down a list of all the bad times and needless arguments and trying to remember back as far as I can and see the red flags from earlier on that I must have overlooked so I can realize that this wasn't some sudden change.

Dude,

Don't plan on it- DO IT. I complied a "Sh*t List" of all the hurtful/weird/manipulative things my ex-friend did to me. This has two big benefits. Firstly, it is a cathartic experience. It's like cutting a snake bite and draining out the venom. Secondly, you will have it there to read whenever you feel the urge to contact her. Whenever I felt myself softening, one read of my SL would set me back on the right path. Also, once I started writing my SL I found that recounting some events would bring up memories of other events that I had forgotten/buried. You start to see patterns forming on the page in front of you that you hadn't seen before.

I'm in a good place now, so I don't read the list all that often. However, while I was detaching it was invaluable.

Go for it!

You're right. I am definitely going to do it when I get home from vacation. Having 6 years sober in a 12 step program and being very experienced in self-inventory and going over things with my sponsor who can lend an objective viewpoint, I always find it very beneficial to get things out on paper and see plain as day the patterns I was blind to or willfully ignored.

[christoff522]

You're right. I am definitely going to do it when I get home from vacation. Having 6 years sober in a 12 step program and being very experienced in self-inventory and going over things with my sponsor who can lend an objective viewpoint, I always find it very beneficial to get things out on paper and see plain as day the patterns I was blind to or willfully ignored.

Just to assist you, I wrote down my sh!t list and now I'm going to put it here on this forum for all to see. Its not big, but when I was in my most down and out place - I just put pen to paper. All names have been removed.

I am stronger than my replacement. However I may feel, i will recover... everything will be okay. I will not die without her, I will not cease to be. I am addicted to abuse - addicted to someone who on a daily basis refused my love and hated me for it, refused my honesty and embraced lies. BPD, little BPD, is nothing but pain and trouble; a child in a girls body who never grew up. Why should I allow someone like that to dictate my mood, To cause me immeasurable pain by embracing her ex? An ex without a spine? Am I like that? I think not!

A girl who loves you one day then is indifferent the next is simply unworthy of my pain. It doesn't make me weak! Cos she could just as easily come back to me like she did to him! He is weak not me!

If she returns... . ?

NO CONTACT!

Thats a scary thought now, but it won't be by the time she creeps her way back in, to think that she sings songs like that HOW PATHETIC! (She sings karaoke songs on smule, the particular song she sang was "When I was your man by Bruno Mars"

NEVER EVER AGAIN!

Thurs May 8 2014

BE STRONG IN THE LORD AND HE WILL RENEW YOUR STRENGTH

HALLELUJAH!

and then about 5 minutes later I did a follow up:

I don't get how she can tell my replacement she loves him - cognitive dissonance?

Must be, she can say what she said to me about him? What the f***! Still, I have to get this out.

All that skyping, 16 hours a day it seemed sometimes, all that time wasted on a lie!

What constitutes my make-up that I would allow someone in like that?

Oh merciful God carry me through, please!

You see, it doesn't matter what you write, so long as you're bearing your soul. These lists, or whatever you put down has to be your deepest pain. So that if one day you get a text, you can look back and see with perspective just how tormented your soul was. You see, you may get that little adrenaline rush, and think ooh yay she's back. You won't be thinking with any level of perspective. But if you just get that little bit of "before I do anything lets just read that note again", then you may feel a little bit differently about replying.

Not only does writing it down make you feel better in the moment, it can help you to defeat the chatterbox in your head thats saying - "go on, go on reply, tell her how much you missed her." It's also why this forum helps, because you occasionally can come across your old posts and a) see your progress and b) understand just how much agony he/she actually caused.

[Boss302]

Sure she will... . my BPDx painted and unpainted me all the time, sometimes several times per day.

[bruised]

You see, it doesn't matter what you write, so long as you're bearing your soul. These lists, or whatever you put down has to be your deepest pain. So that if one day you get a text, you can look back and see with perspective just how tormented your soul was.

Exactly!

[Veronykah]

Seriously, see my post https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=227493.0

It is exactly what you are talking about, although I did it unknowingly! There is a website called FutureMe you can write all you like and send it to your future self. I find it to be pretty cool but after getting this one from my "past self" on the same day I finally decided it was enough with my uBPF exbf, it really made me see reality.

I have to keep reminding myself to read it. Everything wasn't as good as I like to remember it and to see how not good and similar his behavior was for SO long it was another real wake up call.

[christoff522]

Seriously, see my post https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=227493.0

It is exactly what you are talking about, although I did it unknowingly! There is a website called FutureMe you can write all you like and send it to your future self. I find it to be pretty cool but after getting this one from my "past self" on the same day I finally decided it was enough with my uBPF exbf, it really made me see reality.

I have to keep reminding myself to read it. Everything wasn't as good as I like to remember it and to see how not good and similar his behavior was for SO long it was another real wake up call.

Wow thats really useful. It seems it did it's job as well. Sometimes we can lose our perspective, like you say, it makes you see reality. You can argue with your memory, but you cannot argue with what is black and white on paper. To be honest, everything was probably worse than you wrote down. One thing I can remember is how truly sad and angry and upset I would be when she was giving me ___, but once she had calmed down I tended to remember it with less 'emotion' than I had felt at the time. In fact I would have to check myself, because it wasn't normal - I was essentially suppressing my emotions to be able to cope. So yes it definitely wasn't as good as I remember. Funny thing, I was at work today, and out of the blue two of 'our songs' came on one after the other. Triggered me 

But luckily I was somewhere where the moment quickly passed.

Stay strong flower, remember that we're all here for you