Please Help Me Make A Plan

[lostincolo]

As I noticed many of you were able to read my last post "Where to start pt ll". 

Now I need to move forward and I'm not sure where to start.  I know the ice will break before long and I fear the confrontation.  She already feels ganged up on now between my sd, dh and myself though nobody has said a word to her.  My heart starts pounding when a car drives by for fear she'll just stop by and we'll be hashing it out on the front lawn for all the neighbors to see. 

My husband and I have already agreed it's important to go back to L/C.  We were N/C with her for two years a while back but my children missed her so much and it broke me down one holiday season.  I'm lucky we've made it two years L/C without an episode until now but we got loose on our boundaries with her recently.  So we'll pulling the reigns once again.  My husband and I also have discussed her disorder in depth with my step father who actually has been researching it for nearly two years now.  And because we all want her to be better, we all want progression, we all want a healthier family life we are ready to fight the fight of our lives when it comes to her. 

Now I realize baby steps are important.  But here is the deal.  My mom wants nothing more than time with her grandchildren.  Maybe not today, or next week but the longing will come.  We have decided she is strictly going to be allowed supervised time with the kids.  She may join us at the pool.  She will be invited to birthday parties.  We can have dinner as a family at her house.  But there will be no over nights and no taking off with the kids for the weekend.  UNLESS she seeks treatment. 

We have all decided also that it's best if we show a united front.  No more of her compartmentalizing who should talk to who in the family because someone hurt her feelings etc...   Were all on the same page now. 

So this leads me to my question.  Where do we start?  Should we be talking to a therapist for guidance with her?  When she finally calls me or stops by what do I say?  I don't want to tell her we all need to sit down and have a chat, she'll feel backed into a corner and flip her lid.  But at some point she needs to realize this family comes first and every single one of us plays a part including her.  How do I help her see what her role is?  What part she has played in the past?  How the hell do you get someone like this into therapy so we can all move forward?

[Turkish]

Now I realize baby steps are important.  But here is the deal.  My mom wants nothing more than time with her grandchildren.  Maybe not today, or next week but the longing will come.  We have decided she is strictly going to be allowed supervised time with the kids.  She may join us at the pool.  She will be invited to birthday parties.  We can have dinner as a family at her house.  But there will be no over nights and no taking off with the kids for the weekend.  UNLESS she seeks treatment.  

I think you've been doing the right thing, but this doesn't sound like baby steps, but issuing an ultimatum. Can you leave the ultimatum for later and just go with the first steps? It seems you're desperate and angry (rightfully so after that drunken country club jaunt, you described it so well, it sounded like a scene from a movie), but is it possible to step back and let everybody's emotions settle?

Also, if your SF is also researching BPD, I'd caution you against mentioning it to her, or her even inadvertently finding out that you all are diagnosing her. If your SF can use the communication tools here which you can pass on, then that's great, but focus on the kids and protecting them. You mother, while an old lady, is responsible for herself. You are not; rather, you are responsible for your children and your own family.

[lostincolo]

I know you're right.  It does sound like a lot.  And I don't intend to implement it all at once.  I realize she is only capable of digesting a little at a time before she completely blocks us out.  I'm just trying to get on paper all the things we've been sorting through in our own minds.

We have absolutely NO intentions of mentioning BPD to her at all!  That would not be well received, I know this already.  But this is why I wonder if it would be a good start for the three of us to sit down with a T now, without her knowledge.  To gain better perspective on how to move forward and eventually get her into the T's office down the road.  I was kind of thinking when the time comes that we tell her we have all been seeing a T and we would like her to be a part of it so we can all grow together as a family? 

My poor SF has been so alone in this in the past.  My mom is great at compartmentalizing relationships and has really made him seem like the big bad wolf for years.  Only recently have we have been digging deeper and realize he's been battling this on his own.  Okay so I knew my mom was crazy but just not like this!  She would argue with him and come tell me he has all these disorders and hes this and that etc...   Dont talk to him or it will make things worse.   You know "gaslighting".  He really feel like he needs our support right now and I dont want to leave him to deal with her alone without her seeing that we are all on the same page.  Somehow.

My biggest question really is where to start with this initial conversation.  How to approach it so she doesn't immediately jump on the defense.  Mind you in her head she feels we all owe her an apology right now. 

[lucyhoneychurch]

It struck me, my friend, how much the word "fear" is in your posts.  :'(

My thought is you just go about your life, stay busy with your children, and if and when the very thing you fear seems to be happening - her showing up, a scene on your lawn - you must understand you have the capacity to put that event back where it belongs. You do not have to have a confrontation with anyone you choose not to. Not in the United States at least. You have rights as far as your property, your person, and there are laws and rules about just how far the opposite party can impose on you and act out.

Walk into your home when she shows up uninvited and obviously looking for a reason to explode. You do not have to enable her bad behavior ever again. Your door shuts in her face. She will figure it out - she is disordered, not stupid. She will catch on immediately that you are trying to form some new boundaries and she will then of course go into full rage mode. This is what you fear - this is what you are expecting. Naturally. I did too. I backed up my shut door and my "my home is now off limits to you" warning with adding that if she showed up uninvited ever again, the police would come help remove her. It worked. They LOVE a scene that will embarrass you and that is not a broad awful stroke painting all of them alike - every single adult child here knows it's true. but a scene where an authority like police show up and tells them clearly enough that they must be on their way don't come back - they listen. They might test it, but believe me, it is pretty much a given that it will work. When your mother was using her phone to record the cops at the golf course, she is proving she will cross alot of lines and then enjoy the fallout on you. But your home and your property is just that - YOURS. The police are there to enforce that idea.

Your poor stepdad - my father never ever made efforts to take our mother's behavior off of us. He sucked up to her and chimed in with her. I consider him as abusive as she was. There is a saying, "Evil prevails when good people keep silent." I'm sorry but children of any age being subjected to this stuff is evil - it doesn't mean our abusers are evil but the dynamics are of nightmare category - some don't survive do they?

You have rights. Your husband has rights. I think the best way for you to formulate a plan is to finally once and for all think, "What do I want? [peace, freedom from chaos] How do I go about protecting what I want? [limited contact] What do I do if she threatens what I want again? [warning, then follow through with authority warning]"

She wants time with your children? My rule to my mother when she'd mouth and whine about the very same thing (then get around them and abuse them) was that she can't have time with children whose mother she held in such low esteem and abused. And the word "abused" made her head spin but so be it.

No time with children when the parents are being abused. United front  on that seems like a no brainer (not insulting you just very obvious).

Your work is cut out for you. Your mother has proven she is a determined, willful, selfish, manipulative person. Her believing she is deprived and robbed and cheated when living in such a good way - she lies to herself too. The reason she undermines anything good that you are doing in your life - you are an extension of her. How dare you have joys or accomplishments of your own? Does that make sense? she could be the queen of England and still want to ruin what you have because YOU belong to her and it's her entitled right to sabotage it and hold you hostage. She isn't thinking this clearly about it, she is running on lifelong kneejerk reactions.

I'm so sorry.

I had to get desperate afraid of mine to finally spell out the part about the cops being called. It worked like a charm only because I think her radar picked up that I was so so done.  Like charred, fried.

I wish you well. You can do this. Your wiring says you can't but take your snippers and cut that notion right out of there. 

[HappyChappy]

We have absolutely NO intentions of mentioning BPD to her at all!  That would not be well received, I know this already.  But this is why I wonder if it would be a good start for the three of us to sit down with a T now, without her knowledge.  To gain better perspective on how to move forward and eventually get her into the T's office down the road.  I was kind of thinking when the time comes that we tell her we have all been seeing a T and we would like her to be a part of it so we can all grow together as a family?  

 Mind you in her head she feels we all owe her an apology right now.  

In your opening post, you do sound very in control, with a plan and good intentions. But I would echo lucyhoneychurch, your posts do sound fearfull. I think all ACRONs need to be aware of the FOG, I think we forget over time.

Also there are some contradictions - i.e. not mentioning BPD but slowly leading her into Therapy. If you percieve yourself as perfect then Therapy is for others, not you. I did read that a BPD needs to hit rock bottom, to even consider T. The self help material I've read, stress excepting we can't change others, we can only change ourselves. Never more true than with a BPD. But the rest of your plan sounds great. Is it a deal breaker if she doesn't follow you into T ? Here's wishing your family the best.

[lostincolo]

Wow!  Just wow.  It's very interesting to me to see how others perceive my situation.  I will admit that you are right.  I am fearful.  Not that I can't set boundaries because I have in the past.  I have filed retraining orders, I have set N/C boundaries with her.  I think my problem is two things here.  First of all when I set a boundary and she adheres I start to want to forgive and believe she's changed and therefore end up eventually letting my guard down thus allowing for this to happen all over again.  Secondly I fear not just the outbursts and rage but the retaliation.  I fear her vindictiveness when she can't get past my boundaries.  In the past she was the mastermind behind trying to get my husband fired from very successful job and temporarily stained his reputation.  She has also led others to believe I was being abused and called attorneys and tried fighting for grand parenting time in court.  It's exhausting to deal with.  Though I know my rights and the laws and I know I will prevail in the end I still fear the process of dealing with her antics.

I'm not exactly sure how to overcome that.  Some days I feel on top of the world.  Okay most days.  Honestly it has taken me years but most days now I have a pretty positive outlook on life despite my situation with my mother.  In fact my husband and have wanted for years to create a big lifestyle change for our family in which we have a better work life balance and more family time. 

His father passed away last year and it really solidified to us that life is short and we have to make the best of every day we have.  Like I said, he works tremendous amounts of hours and travels on top of it.  Many times I feel we are bodies passing in the night.  So the real reason we went to Hawaii was to see if it could be the lifestyle change we were hoping for.  And since we've been home we've designed a business plan and decided when we finish our home renovation we will be renting out the house and moving our family to Hawaii.  We will use the rental income to help bridge the gap financially until our business is strong.  But we want to work as a family and play as a family.  I think to myself, he makes really good money now.  But whats it for?  To pay bills and have fancy cars.  By the time he gets home he's exhausted and just wants to veg.  If he were to be killed on the highway going to work one day what will my kids have to say about their time with him?  I want them to say that they spent weekends boating or hiking or surfing and they got be involved in the family business where daddy taught them x,y,z... .

And so it dawned on us.  The only thing holding us back was us.  And now we have an 18 month exit strategy and will be raising our children in paradise. 

So as you can see I dont fear a lot.  But mother I do in some regards.  I fear the headache really.  The reason I don't want to mention BPD is because it's not my job to diagnose her.  I am not a professional and I have no place doing that.  This is why I feel it's important to gently lead her to a therapist but I fully understand what you're saying about how she will interpret that.  It's so frustrating!

Is it a deal breaker if she doesn't attend therapy?  Depends. For me no, I am an adult and for the most part I feel I can handle it even if it drives me bonkers.  For my children yes absolutely a deal breaker.  She will not spend time alone with the kids again if she is not actively seeing therapy.

Am I on the right track here?

[lucyhoneychurch]

I so totally sympathize with your situation. Spent many many years and tears and sad sad times wringing my hands and holding my breath. You've done the same, and already took measures much like I did and you see how they have or haven't worked.

Maybe you summed it up right here - and if you see how it comes across, you can perhaps understand where this does circle around again to you each time:

"First of all when I set a boundary and she adheres I start to want to forgive and believe she's changed and therefore end up eventually letting my guard down thus allowing for this to happen all over again. "

I want to say - she's adhering to get what she wants, not because she thinks you deserve that space.

A boundary is for you - "when someone abuses me or hurts me, I will remove myself whatever that takes from their presence, etc."  Boundaries are not for her to decide and debate and get to choose and then you are sucked into the disorder again. And that IS what she's doing based on the rest of your paragraph after that statement. The roller coaster starts all over again.

You are the one not adhering to be brutally honest. You are the one caving in. Then she's right back where she wants to be.

If you ever watch cattle, they will know the minute there is a hole in a fence. They will always know when the power is off electrified fence. And they can move so fast - once they've decided to go through that section of a barrier, voom, they're gone.

You're full of holes. You're working so hard to be strong and make this incredible move to Hawaii (how cool is that?  ) and invest your time and hearts into real quality family time.  But here is this erosion, this leak, this section of your life that keeps just tormenting you and bringing you down and making you live in fear.

Hawaii won't be safe from her if you don't make boundaries that are about YOUR responses and reactions. You might mentally be in Hawaii, and god forbid she takes some of that money she's got and arrives on your doorstep there -

Back to the quote I started this with - what is there to forgive? a mental disorder that is never EVER going to change. She can't help it, not without in depth work. You believing she's changed based on her being savvy enough and smart enough to mask her intentions *just* long enough - that might be the real crux of your problem. Two-fold - you want to forgive, and you believe she's changed.

She's not making mistakes to forgive, she is compelled and driven to react this way out of her entire life spinning around what keeps her in a mental comfort zone, even if that means emotionally throttling her own child.

She's not changing. There is nothing there to believe. You have a big heart but if you could chip away at these dreams and wishes that she will wake up and understand and make it about you and your family, you might not keep arriving right back, painfully, where you were only a couple of years ago.

I'm very sorry for so many times you've been hit and hit hard. Children dreaming of loving parents and then being met with cold cruel reality, no matter the age - there isn't anything sadder.