Dealing with loneliness

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

The last couple of months I've noticed that I have weekends that are empty. I know I should reach out to friends, so I text to see who's up for something. But after texting 15 of them and they all have their weekend 'triple-booked, haha!' i can't help but feel very lonely.

I noticed that feeling lonely is different from social isolation, as loneliness is a feeling and social isolation is a situation. I don't think I am socially isolated, and when I do feel anxious to go to parties or events, I know to turn those negative thoughts around. It's that I feel there is a huge discrepancy between the interaction I wish I have with friends/family, and what is actually there.

It's been stacking up as well. Due to a chronic injury I was forced to stop playing volleyball, which caused me to separate from 'my family'. I've been doing that since I was 13 and I haven't found a replacement yet. It still hurts me every time I talk about it.

I moved to another city, struggled to make new friends. Three of my best friends are writing their thesis and due to their procrastination, are unavailable for a few months and probably all summer. Four people I consider to be good friends live >100km away. My family lives 150km away and in all honesty: the interaction with them is not at a satisfying level anymore as I've come to realize the Karpman communication cycles and I feel alone in fighting away from it. My father and brothers don't feel anything is wrong.

And on top of that, is my dBPDbf not only sometimes emotionally unavailable (although we are working on this quite constructively), he is physically unavailable as he has evening/weekend working hours. Especially during the weekend I feel extremely alone.

How do you deal with this?  How can I turn this around?

nb I've tried therapy but it's no longer covered by my medical insurance and I can't afford any now  :'(

[ziniztar]

The last couple of months I've noticed that I have weekends that are empty. I know I should reach out to friends, so I text to see who's up for something. But after texting 15 of them and they all have their weekend 'triple-booked, haha!' i can't help but feel very lonely.

I noticed that feeling lonely is different from social isolation, as loneliness is a feeling and social isolation is a situation. I don't think I am socially isolated, and when I do feel anxious to go to parties or events, I know to turn those negative thoughts around. It's that I feel there is a huge discrepancy between the interaction I wish I have with friends/family, and what is actually there.

It's been stacking up as well. Due to a chronic injury I was forced to stop playing volleyball, which caused me to separate from 'my family'. I've been doing that since I was 13 and I haven't found a replacement yet. It still hurts me every time I talk about it.

I moved to another city, struggled to make new friends. Three of my best friends are writing their thesis and due to their procrastination, are unavailable for a few months and probably all summer. Four people I consider to be good friends live >100km away. My family lives 150km away and in all honesty: the interaction with them is not at a satisfying level anymore as I've come to realize the Karpman communication cycles and I feel alone in fighting away from it. My father and brothers don't feel anything is wrong.

And on top of that, is my dBPDbf not only sometimes emotionally unavailable (although we are working on this quite constructively), he is physically unavailable as he has evening/weekend working hours. Especially during the weekend I feel extremely alone.

How do you deal with this?  How can I turn this around?

nb I've tried therapy but it's no longer covered by my medical insurance and I can't afford any now  :'(

[seeking balance]

Loneliness is something that I actively have had the opportunity to work on during all this... . most of us here have actually. 

It's been stacking up as well. Due to a chronic injury I was forced to stop playing volleyball, which caused me to separate from 'my family'. I've been doing that since I was 13 and I haven't found a replacement yet. It still hurts me every time I talk about it.

With everything you wrote, this is what stuck with me - finding a replacement for this is really going to be key.  Not only is is active (endorphins, yay) it gave you the social connecting of "fitting in". 

Can you join a hiking club or something new?  I know it is hard to venture out, but you can do hard stuff 

It's funny, we ask a 5 year old to go to school and make new friends, but as adults many of us find that a bit terrifying.  I have done meetups and other events to meet new people too.  It is nervous at first, but social connection is so very important.

Peace,

SB

[dontknow2]

Hi ziniztar,

If you are evolving and struggling to make new friends, this may be a sign there is something for you to uncover in lonely space or maybe a sign of disconnect. In my case, I have both situations ... . In regards to a disconnect, you may still be looking for the same type of friend but don't relate to that type anymore. Or have to work harder to make friends than in the past. Or as SB was suggesting, you may need to look in new avenues matching where you are on your journey. I had to face all 3 plus had to face that I wasn't what many wanted as a friend anymore too.

Today, I tried out a Qi Gong (form of Tai Chi) meetup group just to meet new types of people... . I'll keep trying new stuff until I find a longer term connection or maybe short-term connections are satisfactory now, who knows.

I can't afford therapy either. So, I go to a nearby University Psych clinic. A Doctorate student treats me at a VERY low cost based upon a sliding scale. Even with the sliding scale, they were willing to negotiate even lower to give me a chance for treatment. I think my county also provides cheap therapy but hear mixed reviews. Anyway, just wanted to let you know of other options to consider.

As needed, I also find talking to myself is lovely. It is one of the best things I've ever discovered. My kids think I am crazy because sometimes, I'll just walk around talking to myself. I gotta do what I gotta do. This really breaks up my loneliness though and can say whatever I need to say to myself 

I hope to hear you find something that works for you.

[corraline]

Hi there zinzitar... .

sorry you are feeling so lonely.  i know that one well too.

sometimes volunteering somewhere is very helpful. it certainly doesn't cost anything but your time.

[Ihope2]

Hi Ziniztar,

Loneliness is a sad state to be in.  I am there often.  I am changing my outlook on the friendships I have had thus far in my life.   I have accepted some quite inappropriate behaviour towards me from some of my erstwhile friends, and I am busy re-evaluating those friendships.  I have always tended to be a bit of a recluse and a loner, so it is not easy for me at the best of times to reach out to others for friendship and companionship.

It is also not easy being single at 44years of age, one does get perceived as a bit of an oddity, and perhaps as a threat to couples.

I am naturally an introvert, so I guess loneliness is a tad easier to deal with than those who are extroverts by nature and find their energy in being amongst other people.

Once my divorce is 100% final, which should be in the next month or so, I plan to join a hiking club and go on weekend walks with them.  And I would love to join a yoga group again.

Right now, I feel that I am "neither fish nor fowl" as I am still legally married although my BPDh has disappeared from my life.  It would be too hard to try to be genuine with people and explain my situation to them.  I also would not feel right giving the impression that I am a single woman (I do not wear my ring any more), when in fact at present I am still legally married.  That way, when my divorce is done, I can just mention that I am divorced and know that that is the genuine truth of it.

For now, I spend a lot of my spare time with my sister, who has also had a lot of relationship disappointments of her own and is currently not in a relationship either.  My life is otherwise, quite devoid of contact with people, apart from my 8 hours at work each day.

Good luck to you as you deal with your loneliness and I hope you get to enjoy meaningful and nourishing social interaction and friendship soon!

[Tausk]

Hi:  Thank you for the your post.  For me the "lonely child" mode has been predominate in my entire life.  Even in social situations, I can be pleasant but not feel connected.  And when I'm in pain, it's very hard for me to let go.

But one thing that I've learned is that my life has to have meaning.  When my meaning in life was the attempt to rescue my exgfwBPD, my life was a mess, destructive, and somewhat mutually evil,  but at least I had a meaning

So what has really helped is to find meaning in my life.  

Suggestion Read: Man's Search for Meaning, by Viktor Frankl.  It brought profound sadness to me, but also gratitude for my life.  Also volunteering has helped, and being of service to issues and people that are worthwhile.

Worthwhile in that my efforts and contributions provides some lasting positive results.  All my efforts to my ex just resulting in further destruction to both of us.  Nothing remains from my contributions to the garbage disposal of the emotional needs of my ex.   But today, my efforts with my family, friends, and community, are real, tangible, and positive.  

Finding happiness and self in meaning versus finding pleasure has helped me.

[ziniztar]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the responses. It helps to feel less lonely to read that more people are lonely. Isn't it ironic.

I think I realized something the other day. It's when I feel I'm forced to be alone, when it hurts the most. My dBPDbf works at night and during the weekends, so instead of spending time together, I am forced to seek company elsewhere, and that's the feeling that hurts most. I think it's the same when I lived at home and my parents were never really there. Both my parents would get home late and after dinner that always envolved around my fathers work, we never did anything together. I have two brothers and sisters who are a lot older, who had left the house, so it was just me that was left. I always had a feeling they did not want to spend time with me because I was a burdon to them. Something they had to take care of but weren't really interested in.

I think that most of my life I haven't been aware of this because I had systems in place to prevent feeling lonely. I lived in a house with housemates / friends. I was extremely active in a volleybal club and at work. But after moving to a diffferent city and not being able to create the same group around me I had before... . things got ugly.

I think there are two ways to deal with this

- create more stability in my life, and acknowledge the fact that I need it

- reach out to my friends when I feel alone

I read that loneliness is a signal of danger to a human being (back in the days when we were still hunting and such), as it can be destructive to be left behind. So if I could acknowledge it in stead of pushing it away, saying I don't need anyone... I could use it as a warning signal  

[free-n-clear]

I'll just walk around talking to myself. I gotta do what I gotta do. This really breaks up my loneliness though and can say whatever I need to say to myself  

  It's the only way to get an interesting conversation happening at my place!  

[Tausk]

I'll just walk around talking to myself. I gotta do what I gotta do. This really breaks up my loneliness though and can say whatever I need to say to myself  

  It's the only way to get an interesting conversation happening at my place!  

Gotta start doing this!  Much better than the continued arguments that I have in my head with my ex.  Even when she's not here I still lose those arguments.  So if I'm debating with myself, I'm guaranteed at least a partial victory   

[ziniztar]

I'll just walk around talking to myself. I gotta do what I gotta do. This really breaks up my loneliness though and can say whatever I need to say to myself  

  It's the only way to get an interesting conversation happening at my place!  

Gotta start doing this!  Much better than the continued arguments that I have in my head with my ex.  Even when she's not here I still lose those arguments.  So if I'm debating with myself, I'm guaranteed at least a partial victory   

Which percentage of board members was showing schizofrenic tendencies again? 

[charred]

I am wondering how many of us are similar in our personalities and experiences. Seem to have spent a lot of lonely time... kept people at a distance to keep from getting hurt, had really inadequate parenting. Thought I was unscathed by it all, met my pwBPD and it was like world came alive, then was dumped and it was worse than I could have imagined. Later she came back and same cycles happened over and over. Thought she was best thing that had happened to me... . then worst, then wasn't sure what to think.

Had to eventually accept that my dream girl was a disordered nightmare... that the person I had put on a pedestal and pined over... needed a team of shrinks rather than needing me. Couldn't see why I was attracted to her... thought she was opposite of my mother... and the texts all said I would be looking for someone similar... then I found out about BPD acting out vs in... and had to accept that my mother was waif BPD. Had tests to see if I was NPD (exBPDgf claimed I was)... but was lower on NPD scale than average person. Certainly not BPD... so wondered if the idea that water seeks its own level... that we both probably had same level of disorder somehow... was off. I saw a T, de-stressed a lot with mindfulness and started making some progress... but still didn't get why the attraction was so strong or how my quirks could come close to her near insanity. So far I had accepted my dream girl was disordered, my mother is disordered and I am not BPD or NPD.

While back I had finally come to understand the intensity of the BPD r/s and why it was so devastating. The idealizing can get someone that typically distances themselves from people to accept the pwBPD as a primary r/s... like the unconditionally loving mother they never had (subconsciously)... and that fills a big hole and creates an amazing and inappropriate bond ... and stirs up all kinds of old FOO issues. Then when the pwBPD dumps you or you leave them... the pain is like losing a parent, its a serious depression, not a normal breakup. That all made sense and explained how even after 20+ yrs... I still had 100% of my feelings for my pwBPD on hearing her voice again. So kicked all this around in my head a lot (ruminated really) and still didn't get it... how the water didn't seek its level. Well... turns out that the keeping people at a distance, having controlled emotions, being withdrawn from people a bit... . is part of another serious PD... and it makes this whole experience a tri-fecta of sorts.

Like a lot of people... I wasn't abandoned as a kid, didn't have a mother that wasn't around for me, what I did have was one that didn't see me as a person, but rather as an object or an it. You learn to interact with your real self to someone else's real self from your mother... or at least you should. But when they are not fully present it has an effect, you don't quite connect right, don't trust yourself and feel anxious, even though they are around. That is how a schizoid person is made... . hope I am wrong but I suspect their are a lot of BPD-SPD r/s... as the pwBPD will ignore boundaries and seems to be able to connect real self to real self with you like almost no one else in your life has... then their other disorder symptoms kick in and they bolt, leaving you gutted like a filet.  That seems to be my situation... . and what is the core thing you feel with schizoid PD... loneliness and an inability to connect deeply with people. It has an even lower level of cure than BPD... yep... what an insight. But most people call it being introverted... . and it is more of having a false self that smiles while listening to BS at work, (rather than losing your job protesting stupidity)... that kind of thing. Would make it a point not to look in to it... . denial has its advantages.

:'(

[charred]

Didn't really mention what to do to cope with loneliness.

Mindfulness helps to de-stress and get to where you are comfortable in your own skin and being by yourself. By yourself is not the same as lonely, it can be enjoyable.

When its really bad, (like during my divorce)... I would turn on the TV and radio in other rooms and then work in my office... that way I had familiar sounds of people around.

If you are still close with family, spend time with them, look up old friends, exercise in a gym (makes you feel better and increases activity level... and makes you more of a catch ... so its a win-win thing)... try meetups meetings, they have all kinds of things you can do that you like anyway... so you can relax, be yourself and be in charge and make a good impression on others and perhaps meet someone else.

Failing all those suggestions, see a T and find out whats going on. For me I can make myself do anything, I have sold door to door, gone to clubs alone, cold called, etc... but it is a forced/foreign unpleasant activity I do that is certainly not being my real self. Realizing all that was what led to figuring out my cosmic loneliness... was more schizoid in nature. On the good side... I am probably one of the higher functioning ones.

[Blimblam]

I am wondering how many of us are similar in our personalities and experiences. Seem to have spent a lot of lonely time... kept people at a distance to keep from getting hurt, had really inadequate parenting. Thought I was unscathed by it all, met my pwBPD and it was like world came alive, then was dumped and it was worse than I could have imagined. Later she came back and same cycles happened over and over. Thought she was best thing that had happened to me... . then worst, then wasn't sure what to think.

Had to eventually accept that my dream girl was a disordered nightmare... that the person I had put on a pedestal and pined over... needed a team of shrinks rather than needing me. Couldn't see why I was attracted to her... thought she was opposite of my mother... and the texts all said I would be looking for someone similar... then I found out about BPD acting out vs in... and had to accept that my mother was waif BPD. Had tests to see if I was NPD (exBPDgf claimed I was)... but was lower on NPD scale than average person. Certainly not BPD... so wondered if the idea that water seeks its own level... that we both probably had same level of disorder somehow... was off. I saw a T, de-stressed a lot with mindfulness and started making some progress... but still didn't get why the attraction was so strong or how my quirks could come close to her near insanity. So far I had accepted my dream girl was disordered, my mother is disordered and I am not BPD or NPD.

While back I had finally come to understand the intensity of the BPD r/s and why it was so devastating. The idealizing can get someone that typically distances themselves from people to accept the pwBPD as a primary r/s... like the unconditionally loving mother they never had (subconsciously)... and that fills a big hole and creates an amazing and inappropriate bond ... and stirs up all kinds of old FOO issues. Then when the pwBPD dumps you or you leave them... the pain is like losing a parent, its a serious depression, not a normal breakup. That all made sense and explained how even after 20+ yrs... I still had 100% of my feelings for my pwBPD on hearing her voice again. So kicked all this around in my head a lot (ruminated really) and still didn't get it... how the water didn't seek its level. Well... turns out that the keeping people at a distance, having controlled emotions, being withdrawn from people a bit... . is part of another serious PD... and it makes this whole experience a tri-fecta of sorts.

Like a lot of people... I wasn't abandoned as a kid, didn't have a mother that wasn't around for me, what I did have was one that didn't see me as a person, but rather as an object or an it. You learn to interact with your real self to someone else's real self from your mother... or at least you should. But when they are not fully present it has an effect, you don't quite connect right, don't trust yourself and feel anxious, even though they are around. That is how a schizoid person is made... . hope I am wrong but I suspect their are a lot of BPD-SPD r/s... as the pwBPD will ignore boundaries and seems to be able to connect real self to real self with you like almost no one else in your life has... then their other disorder symptoms kick in and they bolt, leaving you gutted like a filet.  That seems to be my situation... . and what is the core thing you feel with schizoid PD... loneliness and an inability to connect deeply with people. It has an even lower level of cure than BPD... yep... what an insight. But most people call it being introverted... . and it is more of having a false self that smiles while listening to BS at work, (rather than losing your job protesting stupidity)... that kind of thing. Would make it a point not to look in to it... . denial has its advantages.

:'(

wow, I can relate to this so so much. the BPD mother although I was abandoned in infancy and childhood by her. The first time was not her choice but mandatory by court order. Step mom was emotionally unavailable also. My Dad is probably a schizoid also, wow just realized that.

I am an introvert as well probably SPD.

This last experience with a BPD gf was the most traumatic but the one with my first love also BPD was very traumatic.  I seem to be attracted to BPD women exclusively. 

Learning to be alone is key. After my first love I went into the woods to help save a rainforest. It gave purpose to my life.  I was alone in the woods for about 5 or 6 months not all at once.  The longest being 2 months alone.

within the first few days I realized I was talking to myself a lot.  I though it might make me become weird so I didn't speak for 3 days.  In that time I realized as humans we probably speak at least 500 words a day if not thousands. If I did not speak out loud my internal voice would still be going so I became comfortable with talking to myself.

I had months to contemplate or meditate what ever you want to call it.  Self reflection.  I began to notice thought patterns in my mind and I would question all of my beliefs.  I would observe endless mind chatter come and go.  Eventually upon hundreds if not thousands of hours of self reflection I came to a sort of profound understanding.  When I emerged from the forest I had a level of clarity and focus that was incredible. I could look into the eyes of people and they could not hide, respect was automatic.  I was self assured and had no trouble getting beautiful women.  I was doing my own thing and people were envious.

I had no guidance during any of it.  I have been told that my experience was similar to the teachings of vipassana meditation practice which is a Buddhist thing.  The Buddha was probably a schizoid too.  Learing the practice of Buddhism would probably shorten the amount of time it would take to reach such a state.

It is very much like how we arrived at the PI board rather than stuck in the detach board.  Lean into the uncomfortable until we own it and find comfort within it.  At the same time never holding on to the next realization that arrives because it will become your prison. Also remaining self aware of the "false self" and its promise of bliss and staying the path.  It is not unicorns and rainbows, the bliss is ignorance, yup ignorance is bliss.  The resolve that awaits and sense of universal wholeness is something I can not begin to describe.  People will sense it and is found to be extremely attractive.

[ziniztar]

Hey charred, blimblam,

Charred: sorry to read that you're feeling so bad about this, and are suspecting you have SPD. What is holding you back from going to a docter and getting a proper diagnosis? It could help you to get the help you seek / need.

Blimblam that sounds like an amazing experience.

In all honesty I've read and experienced that feeling lonely is something different than being alone. And I think it's a very important distinction to make. I'm perfectly capable of being alone, I like listening to music by myself, sometimes organize dinner parties (on Sunday) which leave me doing grocery shopping and cooking alone all weekend.

Being alone is not the problem. Having less interaction with the people I would want to interact with, is. That's when I start to feel lonely. That's why general advice like 'do volunteer work' will not help. It's about good friends that I used to live with, now living miles away. About my dBPDbf that I want to communicate with, that lives in a different city and is sometimes (emotionally) unavailable. About my parents that I've always seemed to have an OK connection with until I got to this site and started seeing a lot of what actually was wrong. And if you're sensitive to loneliness, any type of disturbance (you/friends moving, switching jobs, death, loss of someone, breaking up a relationship) will drive you back into that dark pit of loneliness until you have re-established the same kind of structures as prior to the disturbance.

I've done quite some research and apparently the only real remedy for this (i.e. changing the way you respond to those disturbances that are part of life) is by perceiving your relationships with other people differently. I know I am very quick to assume that if I don't see people a lot and they're not making an effort to see me (texting me etc), I feel they're abandoning me and I'm losing the friendship or relationship. I think that acknowledging that my perception of this a little off, and I can instigate routines when disturbances are on their way (e.g. moving to another city) or happening (just lost someone), I can better deal with the loneliness.

What do you all think about this view?

[Blimblam]

zinz,

I see what you are saying. I felt the same way when I met my uBPDexgf.  That person I described that went into the woods was what seems like 7 life times ago.  I wish I had wrote down or recorded my thoughts.  What I am saying is once your relation to yourself changes like some deep core beliefs the ripple effect changes everything in your life.  You don't need to go into the woods for an extended period of time. Although it can be highly beneficial.  The stuff I used to have internalized people always used to relate to Buddhism and Taoism.  I think Buddhist teachings and practices such as vipassana meditation can help you achieve what you seek.

blim

[charred]

I have been to a T quite a bit the last 2 years, and took personality tests and came out high on schizoid. It isn't being lonely exactly... it is an anxiety that keeps me from being my authentic self... fear of retribution.  Live in my head, think things out... and get expectations that seldom match reality. I have accomplished most the things on my bucket list... and have felt little if anything when accomplishing them. With avoiding the low emotions and feelings... you cutoff the highs as well. Over time it seems to have gotten worse... and I wouldn't have noticed except being in a BPD r/s suddenly took me from what seemed like dreary old movie black and white to brilliant technicolor... but in a horror film.

So... the DSM criteria... meet 6 of 7... and have had times in past when it was 7/7. But from my reading... many of the perceptions of SPD are off... that they don't care or want friends or r/s, that they have no interest in sex, etc. What seems to be common is a split between real and false self... usually really noticed about 13, where they didn't fit in and became introverted loners to some degree. BPD and Histrionic gals are drawn to SPD supposedly... the calm demeanor (and equal amount of disorder I think)... being the draw.

I can accept myself for whatever I am, and have kept a job and been in quite a few r/s... though I don't have any close friends and haven't since I was a kid. I am bummed about "fixing" what is broke. When I didn't think I had any kind of PD, just some fleas... had things to work on. Suspected I was pretty codependent... but more like beat down by bad r/s after bad r/s. Then came to understand shame and issue with authenticity and why that bothered me (but didn't know of SPD)... and was working on improving handling stress and trying to get in a better place to have intimate relationships (friends/lover, etc). However I felt something was off. I don't feel lonely so much as isolated.

I had a party at my house last night (outside, I stayed in except to get cheese and sausage)... and relatives are coming over today... but I don't connect or feel close to anyone.

I haven't had more than 6-7 people ever that I felt I truly connected with. That is what seems/feels SPD.

So after reading a lot of literature... .BPD can be treated, and usually the success is when the person doesn't act out, is employed, is in a r/s and hasn't made everyone crazy... keeps some fairly close friends... .with SPD... they pretty much say it doesn't get fixed, because the amount of it is unknown, people with SPD are not a problem to others in a way that gets them locked up like BPD, the wake of destruction is smaller. They don't seek out help except when they are at witt's end (like I was with stress from BPD r/s)... and the healing professions don't know what to do with them other than deal with current issues. There are no drugs that really help... it is not recommended to be on antidepressants ... as they tend to make you... skittish and can increase suicidal thoughts   Even more amazing to me, SPD is considered to be early trauma than BPD... even speculation it is a bonding/imprinting autism spectrum problem.

What I read about the I-you vs I-it bonding sure resonated... .your mom can be present but not connecting to another "being"... but rather acting like she is connecting to an "it" or object... and still, when around my mother, I don't feel like she is present or connects with me. She is so awkward.

Realizing how the old bland detached guys I remember seeing around everywhere... unexciting, lifeless, dull... what they were like... and thinking that is possibly how I am to the world... that is depressing. So is finally figuring out what your issues are, being braced for them being bad and reading that the fix is likely... .just deal with it somehow.

I can remember really being lonely... for long periods of time. I lived on my in my early teens... didn't go to my HS graduation, my college or graduate ones. I played sports, but didn't hang out with most the players... its no longer lonely, its disconnected/isolated but around people. That arms distance that I keep people at... works for my jobs, and has kept anyone but my pwBPD from getting real close for a long time... and then that ripped open old wounds and put salt and alcohol in them repeatedly.

Others have it worse... least I can still see that.

[Tausk]

Charred: 

Many of us here are on the spectrum of SPD.  But there's a big difference between SPD and BPD.  SPD is a spectrum disorder, but there's a so much more self awareness.  And as a result, first of all it's not so destructive, and second the ways to move forward are much more successful.

I've found so much more of myself in the last two years.  I'm so much more in my body in social situations.

And part of it is by learning about what my meaning in life is, finding integrity in a true self, and self acceptance.

We on this Board are often in the SPD.  Look at the Briggs Meyers test.  I'm an INFJ and so are many of the people in the survey.  Or at least INXX

So that by nature means more loneliness.  And also the INXX means more idealism.  But it does not mean lacking in any way.  It does not mean a limited capacity. 

And most important, there's nothing in those personality types that indicate that change is beyond us.  In fact, look at how much you've changed since you can on the board.  I remember when you first came here.  You're very very different.

I can see your sincerity, strength of character, humlity and devotion so clearly.  If we lived in the same town, I'd be honored to be able to call you my friend.  And I'm honored to be able to say you are part of my support group.

Just like most everyone on this side of the Board.

There was an interesting article that I read on the advantages of Introverts deliberately engaging in activities and behaviors of Extroverts.  It doesn't change our basic nature, but it provides the world and ourselves that joy and contribution of people who actually have something meaning ful to say and do in the world.

[charred]

Charred: 

Many of us here are on the spectrum of SPD.  But there's a big difference between SPD and BPD.  SPD is a spectrum disorder, but there's a so much more self awareness.  And as a result, first of all it's not so destructive, and second the ways to move forward are much more successful.

I've found so much more of myself in the last two years.  I'm so much more in my body in social situations.

And part of it is by learning about what my meaning in life is, finding integrity in a true self, and self acceptance.

We on this Board are often in the SPD.  Look at the Briggs Meyers test.  I'm an INFJ and so are many of the people in the survey.  Or at least INXX

So that by nature means more loneliness.  And also the INXX means more idealism.  But it does not mean lacking in any way.  It does not mean a limited capacity. 

And most important, there's nothing in those personality types that indicate that change is beyond us.  In fact, look at how much you've changed since you can on the board.  I remember when you first came here.  You're very very different.

I can see your sincerity, strength of character, humlity and devotion so clearly.  If we lived in the same town, I'd be honored to be able to call you my friend.  And I'm honored to be able to say you are part of my support group.

Just like most everyone on this side of the Board.

There was an interesting article that I read on the advantages of Introverts deliberately engaging in activities and behaviors of Extroverts.  It doesn't change our basic nature, but it provides the world and ourselves that joy and contribution of people who actually have something meaning ful to say and do in the world.

That was painfully touching for me... thank you.

I have engaged in many extroverted activities over the years... door to door sales, acting on stage, going in to bars alone to pick up women, presenting to corporate boards, running big projects, hosting parties, etc.  And all of them were pretty much alien and done from a false ego place. Was top salesperson in a company for a while... and hated it... the more I knew the products the less I sold... it didn't suit my personality at all... but I learned a lot. Good salespeople can read intention... and I think I am good at that... which is at the root of my problems.

You make good points. I need to meditate, make mindfulness a constant practice... and find the goals I don't have and pursue them. My T says I need to learn to be kind to myself and self soothe effectively... all good ideas.

Was a time I thought nothing good could possibly come from the BPD r/s... it was all toxic destruction. Heard of the gift of the BPD r/s... (finding your old unresolved issues and being compelled to at least acknowledge them)... and it has drawn me to look at myself and get back to trying to do something with my life... something other than ego driven joyless accomplishments.

I think being over sensitive is a part of all this... I avoided things that hurt... pets because they die, that kind of thing. Need to just live now and do fun stuff.

For years... if something was really enjoyable... I cut back or quit doing it. Could never explain why, but anxiety would rise up about it being wrong if it was too much fun. That is the kind of thing that made me feel a bit crazy.  Ex wife said I was a stick in the mud that never would let myself have much fun... .pretty accurate.

[Xstaticaddict]

I just watched a really good video about loneliness that put a lot of the ideas about expectations and suffering and projections around loneliness in perspective for me. It made me really happy, hope it helps someone here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_gIXoD4Iro&list=FLRHmFxDa8IH20x1Qyod-zaA&index=2

[charred]

I just watched a really good video about loneliness that put a lot of the ideas about expectations and suffering and projections around loneliness in perspective for me. It made me really happy, hope it helps someone here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_gIXoD4Iro&list=FLRHmFxDa8IH20x1Qyod-zaA&index=2

Fantastic!

Thank You... I know a lot of the problem for everyone on these boards... is ruminating... we can't stop thinking and rethinking about the past, or imagining what all could be bad in the future.

Mindfulness (when I stick to it)... does wonders to stop the self induced worry related misery. The video makes a rather obvious to most people point... yet indirectly resonates with me that my expectations are off of reality, and reality doesn't need to change. People and situations change constantly... that is reality. We can't control or think life out... it needs to be accepted for what it is, play the hands we are dealt... .and cut out all the pre-game/post-game analysis.

Certainly felt deeply lonely before... but not for some time. Tore myself apart during my divorce, thinking of a bleak future ... and the unknown part of it... was horrible, I managed to torture myself with nothing, though I didn't really realize it at the time. Turned on TV's and radios and did things like doing remote work from a public place with wifi... so the illusion of people around was present to calm my nerves. Fact is behind all of it... I had unrealistic expectations of how life works.

Expecting others to be with you all the time... isn't how it works, from day one, people come and go.

Thinking that anyone person will "make you happy" or "change everything"... isn't how it works either. No toy, gadget, diploma, person, job, $$ amount in the bank, or accomplishment... will make things perfect... or bring happiness. We are constantly living life, and evaluating our situation... if our perspective is that it is wonderful... it is, if we are looking for a certain outcome ... and we don't get it... the disappointment wasn't really life... it was our own whacked evaluation process.

Been unhappy a lot of ways... but nearly all the happiest times... were unplanned... expectation free times, when I was with people just enjoying the moment, accidentally accepting reality and having fun. For me... the opposite would be a Cecile B. Demille wedding... months of planning, ego driven expectations, pointless psycho-drama... and family obligated to be present. Can watch shows on that kind of thing and it turns my stomach... but it never gelled as to why as clearly as now. Watched a show called ":)own east Dickering"... and felt glued to it. The Maine accent was jarring. but they simply are living in the moment and going for whatever comes up. Their is a genuine happiness that comes out of taking on life's moment to moment challenges and doing something about them... .I recognize it when I see it, just have been sidelining myself from doing it.

[charred]

Hey charred, blimblam,

Charred: sorry to read that you're feeling so bad about this, and are suspecting you have SPD. What is holding you back from going to a docter and getting a proper diagnosis? It could help you to get the help you seek / need.

Blimblam that sounds like an amazing experience.

In all honesty I've read and experienced that feeling lonely is something different than being alone. And I think it's a very important distinction to make. I'm perfectly capable of being alone, I like listening to music by myself, sometimes organize dinner parties (on Sunday) which leave me doing grocery shopping and cooking alone all weekend.

Being alone is not the problem. Having less interaction with the people I would want to interact with, is. That's when I start to feel lonely. That's why general advice like 'do volunteer work' will not help. It's about good friends that I used to live with, now living miles away. About my dBPDbf that I want to communicate with, that lives in a different city and is sometimes (emotionally) unavailable. About my parents that I've always seemed to have an OK connection with until I got to this site and started seeing a lot of what actually was wrong. And if you're sensitive to loneliness, any type of disturbance (you/friends moving, switching jobs, death, loss of someone, breaking up a relationship) will drive you back into that dark pit of loneliness until you have re-established the same kind of structures as prior to the disturbance.

I've done quite some research and apparently the only real remedy for this (i.e. changing the way you respond to those disturbances that are part of life) is by perceiving your relationships with other people differently. I know I am very quick to assume that if I don't see people a lot and they're not making an effort to see me (texting me etc), I feel they're abandoning me and I'm losing the friendship or relationship. I think that acknowledging that my perception of this a little off, and I can instigate routines when disturbances are on their way (e.g. moving to another city) or happening (just lost someone), I can better deal with the loneliness.

What do you all think about this view?

Being comfortable in your own skin... able to enjoy your own company... being your own best friend ... I know I need to loosen up and accept myself as I am.

What you described... attributing meaning, and bad intent to almost random things like someone not texting you when you expect it... is exactly what I have done a lot... and what led me to talking about schizoid behavior.

The name schizoid comes from schism... which is "a split", and refers to the split between reality and our thinking, schizophrenia is not the same thing, it is taking your thinking as reality.  The degree of crazy in someone is pretty much how in touch or out of touch with reality they are, that is the standard of sanity pretty much.

The schizophrenic is stuck in the process of repetitively and monotonously experiencing abnormal meanings from their experiences of reality, which are entirely self-referential, solipsistic and often paranoid: "being observed, spoken about, the object of eavesdropping, followed by strangers"... .schizoid is less out of touch than that... you are grounded to reality, but don't have to get the facts to evaluate reality, it is the faulty process of filling in the blanks with your own thoughts when you don't know what the reality of something is. Throw in a lot of self referencing expectations (stuff you dreamed up, imagined... hoped for)... and then when reality isn't what you had hoped for, you jarred or down from it... though someone else experiencing exactly the same thing... might be thrilled ... it truly does depend on how you perceive the situation. So there is perceiving it, expectations and your evaluation of the situation that come in to play.

I always assumed that my perception was correct... that what I saw AND thought... was accurate. At one point I was sure of it... would argue I saw things as they were. The BPD gal I fell for... saw her as genuinely interested in me, as having all my interests, as being my missing part... my soul mate... .and as unconditionally loving. In HS, I knew a lot of girls had no interest in me... and I knew that a lot of people thought I was stupid ... because I didn't have any interest in what was popular.

But... my sister and some of her friends... years later told me how many of the gals had crushes on me... and I didn't see it. The ones I pursued... were mostly the ones that truly were not interested. My BPD gal... was disordered... and wasn't any of the things I took her as... and my judgement of people... .often was me being unjustly... judgmental.

Meeting new people has been hard for me at times... .would play out all kinds of scenarios and get all worked up in my head about the situation... but other times, would be somewhere doing something and the person that also happened to be present and I would talk and before long... I had met them painlessly.

Worry is stress, and it prompts us to take action... minimal self defeating action, like holding back controversial ideas ... holding back talking to someone as it might not turn out like we want. Before long we are holding back the essence of who we are... and in our place substituting acting like we think someone else thinks we should. And we are supplying what we think they think we should be doing... and never getting a reality check. Over time a lot of unrealistic expectations work their way in to our worrying process and we turn in to boring, quiet, withdrawn, serious adult dorks.

That is how I have experienced it... ymmv

[PrettyPlease]

I just watched a really good video about loneliness that put a lot of the ideas about expectations and suffering and projections around loneliness in perspective for me. It made me really happy, hope it helps someone here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_gIXoD4Iro&list=FLRHmFxDa8IH20x1Qyod-zaA&index=2

Great video, thanks.

And thanks to all in this thread, it's been helpful to me. I've been solitary most of my adult life, and I see in myself some of the SD traits charred describes, -- although to myself, at least up until now, I've been defining them more in terms of a skew in our society: industrialization of the home and education, teaching us all to live in the past and future and avoid our feelings in the now, so we'll be appropriate cogs in the industrial machine. Partly this was achieved by invalidation of my feelings in my FOO, by parents who had been socialized to believe this was the appropriate course of action. Loneliness is just one of the feelings that I learned to detach from -- anger being another major one.

So, in terms of loneliness, the video, about saying, 'OK feeling of loneliness, kill me', and then going into the feeling as bad as it can get and coming out the other side by realizing 'No one is ever coming to stay', is a great solution -- if it works  .  I'll give it a go.  Or at least talk to myself about it. 

[ziniztar]

I am stepping away from the schizoid discussion as that was never really the intent of my thread.

I feel that only therapists can diagnose us and that diagnosing each other here is not helping us out of the situations we are in right now.

What I found on PERSPECTIVES: The dysfunctional dance - self-inflicted wounds is the following text:

Margaret Paul, Ph.D. (info) says "we are being victims anytime we give another person the power to define our worth. We are being victims anytime we blame another for our feelings of fear, anger, hurt, aloneness, jealousy, disappointment, and so on."

Paul uses the following to exemplify her point... .

When I asked Don why he sits and listens to Joyce, he stated that he hoped if he listened to her she would listen to him. I asked if she ever does listen during these conflicts, and he answered "No."

"Why do you need her to listen to you?"

"I want to explain to her why I did what I did with the children."

"Why do you need to explain it to her?"

"So she won't be mad at me."

According to Dr. Paul, Don allows himself to be yelled at by Joyce as his way of trying to control Joyce, hoping to get her to approve of him. Then he tried to explain to further control how she feels about him. When she won't listen, he feels victimized by her yelling, blaming her for being such an angry, controlling person.

If Don were willing to take responsibility for approving of himself, he would not listen to Joyce when she was yelling at him. Instead, he would set a limit against being yelled at, stating that he would listen to her only when she spoke to him with respect and only when she was open to learning with him. But as long as she has to approve of him for him to feel secure or worthy, he will not set this limit. Until Don takes responsibility for his security and worth, instead of handing this job to Joyce, he will be a victim of her unloving behavior.

I realize that I've been blaming my dBPDbf for my loneliness. That his incapability of planning joint activities in the week, that his coping mechanism of working too much is why I am feeling like this. And why do I feel lonely when he's not around? Because I have this skewed way of thinking that as long as he's not with me, I am alone. Which is total and utter BS as I never really felt alone when I was single. Of course, I missed some intimacy and wasn't always fully booked all weekends. But when I was alone at home, I loved reading a book, taking a bath, I'd text some people to see what they were doing, or I planned a long weekend to my parents. For some reason I've always made my boyfriends responsible for me not feeling alone.

Which, if I come to think about it, is a normal thing to be angry at towards my father when I was a child. He sabotaged or forbid developing the friendships I wanted because he didn't approve of those people (mostly their parents if you ask me). Also, the times he left me waiting somewhere because he forgot to pick me up are countless. I even remember times when he had to pick me up from ballet lessons and the next group had already finished (+1,5hours later) and he was still not there to pick me up. The ballet teacher even had to close the building.

This wasn't a one time thing. It was always like this. Ballet lessons, fluit lessons, picking me up from school for docters appointments, gym classes. Standard waiting times was 15 minutes up to 2 hours. And keep in mind that mobile phones did not exist when I was 8 years old. Me adapting to my current dBPDbf's behaviour is a way to control his: I hope that if I adapt long enough to his needs, he will take care of mine as well. He will drop a shift at work and decide 'Thanks what you've done for me in the last weeks, I will make it up to you.' That of course is never a good dynamic relationship, having to make up things to each other, keeping score.

Probably, when I stop blaming him for being alone and taking responsiblity for my own aloneness, things will get better. I will feel less alone and be more active to reach out to friends, he will feel less responsibility to take care of me (he feels things and he's BPD, can you even imagine the pressure I put on him for him to feel this way) and I will not resent him as much as I did before.

It's funny that once you are given a new pair of glasses all of a sudden the world seems so different.