It's all about ME

[lbjnltx]

After years of struggling to learn about this terrible disorder that my daughter began to show signs of suffering with at the age of 11... .after years of learning all the skills that are supposed to help improve our relationship... .after 4 plus years of outpatient family therapy and one year of inpatient treatment to try to help my daughter... .it all was really about ME.

How I handle disappointments associated with her choices, how I respond (and not react), how I interpret her actions/tone of voice/body language/attitude/etc... .how I feel, how I think, how I behave... .When I am healthy and respond in healthy ways it has a positive affect on her.

My own mental/emotional/spiritual/physical health is only jeopardized by another when I lack the skills, positive self image, spiritual connection, and self care needed to be healthy.  There are so many people in and out of our lives that are not "healthy"... .it is fruitless to even attempt to try to heal them all through skills... .it is much more effective to heal self and be able to stay in relationship with "difficult" people.  After all... .I can be one of those "difficult" people too sometimes.

How do you see your responsibility to the person you love that suffers from BPD (or is "difficult), your responsibility to others you care about, your responsibility to self?

lbjnltx

[Turkish]

That's a great realization. It's about boundaries, core values, and what we allow by our behaviors. We can only control US.

Years ago, I used to take pride that I connected with women well (for what it's worth, even healtby women said this about me). I had a few more close female friends than those male. Then I came to a realization, and exorcised them from my life. Turned down getting enmeshed with more, and met much uBPDx... .Six years and two kids later, here I am.

I realize now that disordered traits aside, it is about me. What I allow, what I enable. It's improved my r/s with my BPD mom, and I think my day-to-day interactions with people as well. It also helps me be a better father, to realize that while I can trigger my kids, I am nit responsible for their behaviors, ultimately, and I shouldn't feel guilty if they act out. They're kids. Still, I know my responses can trigger them, so in a way, it is about me again. They:re kids after all.

No more parenting adult kids. I think I'm done with that  

[fromheeltoheal]

Nietzsche said "In the end one only experiences oneself", a focus that has been helpful to me.  What I'm responsible for is what I can control, which is my emotional state and my integrity.  It's also true that the person who is the most confident and congruent in a relationship will influence the other person, when they are in rapport.  If I'm deciding to love my biggest fans and nurture those relationships, with integrity and confidence, it has a positive influence, and that's all I can do, all I am responsible for.  And sometimes I suck at it, but getting back up and trying again is all there is.

[heartandwhole]

Hi lbjnltx, 

This is such an important topic.  I have always admired your ability to get to the heart of things and react in ways that respect yourself as well as others.

Since I took on at a young age the notion that I was responsible for my parents' emotional states and "happiness," unwinding that from my own self-care has been a challenge.  I'm super responsible and very good at taking care of business, so to speak, but when it comes to my own emotional well-being, I notice that I have had much less practice, and have fewer skills (or just not using the ones I do have).

It seems that lately my self-care doesn't sit well with the people around me, so that is either a confirmation that our interactions weren't in line with my needs and/or values, or I maybe I could communicate my needs in a more skillful way (probably both).  I'm working on it, getting comfortable with making my needs a priority, but I think I may be over shooting a bit sometimes in an effort to find balance again.  I think addressing the imbalance sooner would be helpful. 

I love what you wrote about not healing anyone with skills, I really resonate with that, and that's where acceptance is so very important.  In so many ways I am good at taking care of myself, and yet, the part of me that really needs attention can be so quiet.  The din of life takes over, and her voice isn't heard.  My job now is to listen.

How's that for me, me me? 

heartandwhole

[Surnia]

A yes with all my heart!

Thank you so much to bring this into words.

There are so many people in and out of our lives that are not "healthy"... .it is fruitless to even attempt to try to heal them all through skills... .it is much more effective to heal self and be able to stay in relationship with "difficult" people.

Its a daily challenge for me. Right now not with a partner but family, coworkers, students... .one big thing to watch for me carefully are expectations. I carry so many expectations toward other people and toward myself. I do a lot of "reframing my expectations" right now.

And the second string or red line is about being perfect. I am not perfect and the world isn't it neither. 

Fulltimejob to think about "making things better" "making no mistakes" yada yada. He should doing this, she should better do this. Its in fact a great way to a miserable and boring life... . 

[lbjnltx]

I am nit responsible for their behaviors, ultimately, and I shouldn't feel guilty if they act out.

When we feel guilt or anger or whatever in reaction to another's behaviors we are personalizing that which doesn't belong to us... .it's a fine line to walk and so very important to keep our balance.  When we allow the poor behaviors of other's to affect our self image we have crossed the fine line to the unhealthy.  While we are responsible for how we affect other's Turkish we are not responsible for their actions... .

Hi lbjnltx, 

This is such an important topic.  I have always admired your ability to get to the heart of things and react in ways that respect yourself as well as others.

And this is why I post this here and not on the other boards... .Getting to the nut in the shell is a process that looks different for each of us.  Being the "other" 50% in a relationship with someone with disorders we can carry so much guilt and denied guilt that we are not ready to own our responsibility in the relationship.  It isn't about the "how did this happen?" or "how do I fix them?" it is about HOW DO I FIX ME? 

Patience isn't my strongest characteristic 

When we want to help someone (or many) because we wish to save them much time and heartache by saying "hey shift your focus and accept the challenge" when they are no where near ready ... .we can drive them away and that is not helpful.  The "challenge" then becomes mine to support them patiently and accept that which I have no control over... .so once more... .it is "all about ME".

Nietzsche said "In the end one only experiences oneself", a focus that has been helpful to me.  What I'm responsible for is what I can control, which is my emotional state and my integrity.  It's also true that the person who is the most confident and congruent in a relationship will influence the other person, when they are in rapport.  If I'm deciding to love my biggest fans and nurture those relationships, with integrity and confidence, it has a positive influence, and that's all I can do, all I am responsible for.  And sometimes I suck at it, but getting back up and trying again is all there is.

Well written fromheeltoheal!

How do you see your responsibility to those who are not your biggest fans?  Loving the unlovable is a greater exercise in personal development than loving those who love us.

Fulltimejob to think about "making things better" "making no mistakes" yada yada. He should doing this, she should better do this. Its in fact a great way to a miserable and boring life... . 

Perfection is a myth for it is different for each of us... .it is a unique perspective we all have.  Does shame play a role in feelings of inadequacy when we make a mistake?  I know I make at least one mistake everyday

If we have shame a sure fire cure is to tell someone about our mistake (preferably the person or persons most affected by our mistake).  Shame only exists in the dark... .bring it into the light and feel the freedom from it! This may have to take place repeatedly to completely overcome this thing inside us called "shame".  The most difficult person to forgive is self.

Feelings of inadequacy have no place in my life... .I am fully aware that I am worthy of love, respect, acceptance, and joy for I am loved by my creator and I was bought at a very high price.  My core beliefs are often challenged by fleeting thoughts and feelings that deny me joy... .and I have the power to send those thoughts and feelings back out... .ASAP!

lbjnltx

[fromheeltoheal]

How do you see your responsibility to those who are not your biggest fans?  Loving the unlovable is a greater exercise in personal development than loving those who love us.

I don't see myself as having the responsibility to love the unlovable.  That reframe is new for me, it started with my ex, and it has been very freeing.  Life lately has been about culling the herd, removing the people who are not fans from my life, part of establishing and reinforcing boundaries, the death of a People Pleaser.  There are two kinds of people: the ones who bring me up and the ones who bring me down, nobody's fault, we are who we are, but if you ain't bringin' me up, you gotta go.  

Then there's people I can't remove, family; I see myself as having a responsibility to be there if they need me, for whatever reason, but beyond that the rules are the same.  Still working on that one, my brother is being a pain in the ass lately, and the people I'm closest to I'm not related to by blood, which is OK, and not unique I've found.

[lbjnltx]

Because of my faith I am called to love those who are unlovable... .and sometimes the unlovable are very close to us... .in my case... .my daughter was very unlovable for a few years (for the most part). 

For me... .loving someone doesn't necessarily mean keeping them physically close to us (such as an SO).  Sometimes the most loving thing we can do is let someone go.  Let them go with our well wishes and hopes for peace and happiness in their lives and our own lives.

When we can do that it is a very peaceful transition for us and we are most able to retain life lessons learned from the relationship.  We are less likely to have any "baggage" to carry to our next relationship and we are better for having had them in our lives. 

lbjnltx

[fromheeltoheal]

Yep lbjnltx, I've been able to do that with some people, and it is freeing, more comfortable, and carrying around resentments eats us up inside, has nothing to do with the other person anymore, and is a waste of time and life.  Looking for the lessons in the 'exchange' is a focus that eases resentments and moves me forward; someone posted something the other day that said, paraphrased, that someone only sticks around in our heads as long as it takes to learn the lessons.  I like that.  This recovering people pleaser has quite a few people from my past who've been very 'educational', and some of them I still want dead, honestly, but I guess those lessons haven't been learned yet, still working on it.  The good news is it doesn't happen anymore, I have my ex to thank largely for that, she pushed it so far that I had no choice but to stand up for myself, and that's rippled out into life as a whole.  Funny, I don't feel any animosity towards my ex anymore, I can easily let her go with love, probably because I've done most of the work on her and us in the last year.  Time to get busy with the rest... .

[lbjnltx]

I have my ex to thank largely for that, she pushed it so far that I had no choice but to stand up for myself, and that's rippled out into life as a whole.  Funny, I don't feel any animosity towards my ex anymore, I can easily let her go with love, probably because I've done most of the work on her and us in the last year.  Time to get busy with the rest... .

In a simply way... .I am thankful for my dd's disorder.  Like you, it pushed me to become an overall better version of myself.  My faith and relationship with God reached a level I didn't know was even possible and I am not willing to let go of any of the personal growth achieved.  Priceless!

[pessim-optimist]

Thank you for posting this thread, lbjnltx!

I was conditioned to think that "me" focus was just plain being selfish (it can be, if it's overdone). But a few years ago, I realized that a "you" focus, coming to the table with an improperly equipped and neglected "me" isn't helpful and can be downright harmful.

Now I see my responsibility in finding the right balance between "you" focus and "me" focus.

My journey towards healing and growing up the "me" has the goal of being the best me possible, so that my relationships to the "you"s (God being the first of them) aren't harmed or hindered by me, but rather enriched and enhanced. That's my responsibility to others.

It isn't an entirely selfless aim - by being the best possible me, I will benefit greatly also. And that's my responsibility to me.

Sometimes the most loving thing we can do is let someone go.

I used to either let go too easily/too soon, or struggle beyond a healthy point to make things work out. I am still learning but it's getting easier and clearer to see when to keep trying and when it's time to let go.

If we have shame a sure fire cure is to tell someone about our mistake (preferably the person or persons most affected by our mistake).  Shame only exists in the dark... .bring it into the light and feel the freedom from it! This may have to take place repeatedly to completely overcome this thing inside us called "shame".  The most difficult person to forgive is self.

That was a difficult lesson for me to learn. Doing that in my FOO was not safe. Learning that there are safe people out there involved me taking the scary risk, but also brought a liberating reward.

[lbjnltx]

God first

Self second

Others third, fourth, fifth, et... .

When we are truly putting God first that keeps us from being selfish... .if self is not before others we are at high risk of burn out and worse... .we can only give what we have and what we have must be healthy and nurtured to sustain us to give to others... .it is circular, not linear.  As usual... .it is about balance. 

I believe it was Peck that stressed the living of a balanced life being the key to fulfillment and overall well being/success.

Cheers to all who strive to find the balance!

[Tausk]

I have my ex to thank largely for that, she pushed it so far that I had no choice but to stand up for myself, and that's rippled out into life as a whole.  Funny, I don't feel any animosity towards my ex anymore, I can easily let her go with love, probably because I've done most of the work on her and us in the last year.  Time to get busy with the rest... .

In a simply way... .I am thankful for my dd's disorder.  Like you, it pushed me to become an overall better version of myself.  My faith and relationship with God reached a level I didn't know was even possible and I am not willing to let go of any of the personal growth achieved.  Priceless!

I don't understand this?  Thankful for a Disorder?  Yes, perhaps it pushed me to higher levels, but there's nothing states that I need to be in contact with the Disorder to achieve higher levels of awareness.   People in AODA recovery often say the same things.  And yes, I'm grateful for my recovery.   Yes, the people suffering from the Disorder deserve great compassion.  And yes, I'm grateful for responding in a manner that I didn't lose myself to self-pity, victimization, resentment and anger, but instead thought examining my FOO issues and maladaptive schema.    But thankful for the Disorder?  

It's like saying I'm thankful for my child's cancer because it taught me how to love my child better.

The Disorder is destructive.  The Disorder is immoral and sociopath in its actions.  The Disorder feeds on other people.  The Disorder hurts many people and often beyond repair.  The Disorder is a waste and serves no real purpose other than to harm.  

I understand staying and loving as best as I can.  Besides my ex, I've come to realize my sister has the Disorder.  And I've done everything and will continue to do anything I can to support my sister and her three children, whom I love dearly.  Dispite the devaluation and destruction.  And yes, it's taught me so much.  

But if there's anything that I hate, it's the Disorder.  Just as I hate any destructive abusive immoral energy and force that exists. But I have to accept that the Disorder is more powerful than me. And I have to adapt because the Disorder always wins.  But thankful for the Disorder?

H.H. The Dalai Lama states unequivocally that Mao Tse Tung was his greatest teacher because Mao's actions forced him to learn greater levels of compassion for others.   But that doesn't mean that he is thankful for Mao and the murder and torture and destruction.

 

And as Victor Frankl states:

“Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms—to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.”  

The is what Victor Frankl learned.  And this is the point of the this board and recovery.   However, it doesn't mean that Victor Frankl was thankful for the chance to experience Auschwitz.

[lbjnltx]

To each his own Tausk.  As I stated "in a simple way"... .because there are many subtleties.  Most of my life lessons have come when I am on my knees... .not when I am on the mountain top.  I am thankful for however my God chooses to teach and mold me.

May He bless you and give you peace.

lbjnltx

[fromheeltoheal]

I don't understand this?  Thankful for a Disorder?  Yes, perhaps it pushed me to higher levels, but there's nothing states that I need to be in contact with the Disorder to achieve higher levels of awareness.   People in AODA recovery often say the same things.  And yes, I'm grateful for my recovery.   Yes, the people suffering from the Disorder deserve great compassion.  And yes, I'm grateful for responding in a manner that I didn't lose myself to self-pity, victimization, resentment and anger, but instead thought examining my FOO issues and maladaptive schema.    But thankful for the Disorder? 

It's like saying I'm thankful for my child's cancer because it taught me how to love my child better.

The Disorder is destructive.  The Disorder is immoral and sociopath in its actions.  The Disorder feeds on other people.  The Disorder hurts many people and often beyond repair.  The Disorder is a waste and serves no real purpose other than to harm. 

I understand staying and loving as best as I can.  Besides my ex, I've come to realize my sister has the Disorder.  And I've done everything and will continue to do anything I can to support my sister and her three children, whom I love dearly.  Dispite the devaluation and destruction.  And yes, it's taught me so much. 

But if there's anything that I hate, it's the Disorder.  Just as I hate any destructive abusive immoral energy and force that exists. But I have to accept that the Disorder is more powerful than me. And I have to adapt because the Disorder always wins.  But thankful for the Disorder?

I didn't say I was thankful for the disorder (Disorder?) Tausk, I said I have my ex to thank; she is not a disorder, she is a woman, one with a terrible past, who's doing the best she can with the personality hardwiring she ended up with.  To expand, I'm thankful and grateful for her and the relationship we had, mostly because it took me to places I might have been able to get to otherwise, but didn't, after decades of trying, for that I am very much thankful.

We all know the saying 'every cloud has a silver lining', we know it for a reason, because it's true; there are lessons everywhere, and sometimes, maybe most times, the best way to learn is when we're in pain, because we're much more teachable.  Also, I can say I love my ex today, I can let her go with love, I will probably never see her again, but I can easily feel a love for her, mostly because that's what sits best inside me, that's what feels right; it's calm, there isn't a bunch of emotional energy around it, like there was a year ago, and I'm more than happy to settle into that, it feels good.  I'm not a fan of personality disorders either, or the sick sht that created them, but I am a fan of inner peace, serenity, maturity, and wisdom, and anything that helps me get there, and everything does if we look hard enough, reframe enough, I'm good with.  Take care of you!

[Tausk]

Ibnj and H2H:  Thank you for your kind replies.  In rereading my post, I can see how it might have seemed harsh.  I am grateful for any chance to grow.   And I'm grateful for my ex because she was also my greatest teacher in this stage of my life.  I've learned so much more about myself and finally am finding my real self.  Something that I never had before.

And my gratitude for my ex is not just because of the destruction.  It's also because as destructive as the Disorder is in her life, she still wakes up and faces life with courage, even though she knows she's different, she knows she's limited, but she doesn't know why or how.  Yet, she still faces life with courage that is well beyond what I have in me.

And yes, it is all about "me" and how I relate to others.   

But the Disorder is one of those questions of, "why does God do bad things to good people?"

The Disorder is the result of trauma, abuse, genetics and a host of other unknown factors.  I wonder if I was in part cause of my little sisters development of the Disorder.  The pain of that prospect is intense, even though I wouldn't have been more than ten at the time of the development.  But if been a terrific brother over the past 15 years.  I hope my efforts make amends for any transgressions.

The Disorder is a waste.  It serves no useful function.  It creates nothing but suffering and further Disorder.  There is nothing in my mind to be thankful for in the sense of the Disorder.  I simply have to accept that the Disorder exists and respond in a manner that best suits me. 

As the thread says, it's all about me. 

Be well,

T

[qcarolr]

God first

Self second

Others third, fourth, fifth, et... .

When we are truly putting God first that keeps us from being selfish... .if self is not before others we are at high risk of burn out and worse... .we can only give what we have and what we have must be healthy and nurtured to sustain us to give to others... .it is circular, not linear.  As usual... .it is about balance.  

I believe it was Peck that stressed the living of a balanced life being the key to fulfillment and overall well being/success.

Cheers to all who strive to find the balance!

I continuously strive for balance. Striving to remember that all relationships need to be reciprocal in a nurturing way to be healthy. I think of this as a spiral more than circular. There is up/down motion as well as around and around.  The pattern can be seen in the structure and operations of our neurological system. This is how we are designed. The pattern can be felt in our soul - God calls me and I respond by reaching out for His wisdom to understand the knowledge given. Presence in the moment - this is repeated over and over in scriptures. This is repeated over and over in science, philosophy, psychology, spirituality... .in so many different 'languages'.

The "I"  part of me, the ego, is lodged in my left brain. There is a powerful desire there to be in control - both internally and externally. My self-care practices help to draw from the rest of my neuro system to balance this - to bring me into the present moment which is all I really have. The seat of my intuition, creativity, sensitivity in my right brain, the link between these two halves in the millions of threads in the corpus collosum, and all the strutures in the limbic (emotional system). This is the design that distinguishes me as a human. I am so fascinated by all of this -- all of the languages that describe a balanced ME.

Maintaining balance is big issue in relating to my DD28, the pwBPD in my life. Her baseline is to put her needs and desires above all else, and this is most often at an unconscious level. In those times when she has better awareness she makes TLC's (tiny little changes). The TLC's disappear with any stress in her life. There is a rupture in our relationship. Life holds stress/distress for us all. It is a normal part of our human existence. It is often what drives us to seek. The positive is that DD does seek out these little steps when reminded they exist. When she is in contact with another that is grounded and available to hear her.

There is value in my ability to be present. Listen (story shared), Listen (feelings), Listen (needs), Understand (empathy). This is validation. It takes being secure in myself to avoid getting defensive or trying to fix the problem. Our thinking mind has an autopilot that draws us quickly to self in conversation.  Validation is a skill I have to work every day.

The 'ME' aspects are only a part of all my relationships - I require getting back from others in my life to maintain balance. I cannot do this solely from my own resources. My core value: Love God <> He first loved me; Love others (give) <> Love myself (receive); repeat. The circle of love in <> is essential for my health - for balance.

qcr

[qcarolr]

The definition on my previous reply about validation is from the book "I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better", Lundberg.

qcr

[lbjnltx]

Thanks qcarolr for the neurobiological explanation!  Still have that book waiting to be read! 

Finding and maintaining balance is a non stop job!  I constantly check in with myself to make changes needed to maintain balance or correct imbalance.  Some days you just can't be balanced... .yet EVERY DAY I make time in the morning for ME, meditation, and setting daily goals.  I always include calling a friend or family member on my daily list to ensure that I am nurturing relationships and not just working myself to death.

While knowledge of skills and understanding how our brains work are great things... .there is an open gap to fill... .believing and fully accepting the power we each have within ourselves to affect positive change and taking full responsibility for our short-comings as well as our victories.  It is the difference between knowing and fully embracing. I can know how to use a skill... .such as positive self talk and if I don't believe what I am saying to myself... .well... .it won't help much will it?

Our self image can really take some big lumps when we are in close relationship with pwBPD... .it is up to each of us to be the best self we can be if we want to a. survive with our sanity b. be a healthy source of support to that pwBPD and c. pass on our skills to others (including pwBPD).

lbjnltx

[fromheeltoheal]

"I know there's a balance, I see it when I swing past."  John Mellencamp

Our self image can really take some big lumps when we are in close relationship with pwBPD... .it is up to each of us to be the best self we can be if we want to a. survive with our sanity b. be a healthy source of support to that pwBPD and c. pass on our skills to others (including pwBPD).

Yes.  I couldn't do it, I had to bail to retain my sanity, thought I was losing it, literally, and I'm in awe of people who stick with it and find ways to cope; being in relationship with a borderline while we learn to maintain our emotional state is trial by fire, and someone who gets good at it under those conditions must be very good.  Granted, I was in a romantic relationship, but I don't think it's that different; emotionally involved with that pathology is emotionally involved.

Those are good takes on validation and balance, thanks for that peeps.

[qcarolr]

An old pattern I am trying to replace is shifting from listening to talking about me, my story, my needs, my desires.  The response is very often the other person shutting me out. In the past this was a trigger for a lot of anger toward me from DD as well as others in my family.  Others give me lots of cues that this is happening. It is up to me to hear the cues and change how I am responding.

Being mindful through my daily self-care practices - which do work when I consistently carve out the time - shifts ME into a place of being more peaceful inside. Then I can be more calm when in contact with DD. Currently we talk daily and spend half day together about every two weeks. It is about BEING instead of BECOMING. This is what I understand from lbj:

While knowledge of skills and understanding how our brains work are great things... .there is an open gap to fill... .believing and fully accepting the power we each have within ourselves to affect positive change and taking full responsibility for our short-comings as well as our victories.  It is the difference between knowing and fully embracing. I can know how to use a skill... .such as positive self talk and if I don't believe what I am saying to myself... .well... .it won't help much will it?

Our self image can really take some big lumps when we are in close relationship with pwBPD... .it is up to each of us to be the best self we can be if we want to a. survive with our sanity b. be a healthy source of support to that pwBPD and c. pass on our skills to others (including pwBPD).

My reading about many topics to do with research on how we tick has helped to understand myself and my strengths and weaknesses. This gives me direction in seeking out ways that will work for me to replace old patterns and habits with new and better ones. It also helps me to understand my DD and those areas that are so often out of balance for her. This understanding helps me to be with her and be supportive and less triggering.

All this reading/research can also become overwhelming and create a lot of confusion as I process and integrate it. Both my T and my mentor/sponsor have been great at listening and guiding me in this adventure. I tried to do this all on my own for so very long. Reaching out to build a local support network has made a huge difference. Lots of prayers from this group has helped too. I can see results.

I am more at peace regardless of the circumstances.

qcr

[lbjnltx]

Awesome qcarolr!

I experience it as being who I am rather than something I do... .fully understood, accepted, practiced and integrated. The more I "practice" the better I get at it and the more I "practice" the more it becomes a part of who I am.



lbjnltx