Are there so many rages that you forget what they were about?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I don't know if it is PTSD. Perhaps not since I am still in this downward spiral of a relationship but as I am losing my sanity I am also losing the ability to recount in my mind the details of what my BPD wife rages  about. I go to my therapist and have a hard time recalling the specifics. As I experience more and more of them, I remember less and less of the details and can only zone in on my feelings of hopelessness, anger and frustration. Is that normal? Does that mean I AM GETTING SICKER because of her BPD?

You know the Charlie Brown movies? My BPD wife, to me, is sounding like Charlie Brown's parents when they talk... ."Wa Wo Wa Wa". I tune out the words but not the wounds.

[michel71]

I don't know if it is PTSD. Perhaps not since I am still in this downward spiral of a relationship but as I am losing my sanity I am also losing the ability to recount in my mind the details of what my BPD wife rages  about. I go to my therapist and have a hard time recalling the specifics. As I experience more and more of them, I remember less and less of the details and can only zone in on my feelings of hopelessness, anger and frustration. Is that normal? Does that mean I AM GETTING SICKER because of her BPD?

You know the Charlie Brown movies? My BPD wife, to me, is sounding like Charlie Brown's parents when they talk... ."Wa Wo Wa Wa". I tune out the words but not the wounds.

[Heartandsole]

I absolutely experience the same thing. She would yell at me for hours and after a day or two I couldn't remember what it was all about.  I think this is partly a disassociation coping mechanism to avoid conflict and to survive a verbal onslaught, but also due to the fact that I didn't think I had done anything wrong, so I just "took the beating" not really listening.

Often times I had such a small opportunity to express myself, there wasn't anything stimulating to keep me in the conversation. 

During her rages, she would say such nasty things to me, about me, that I knew were not true, so that may help me to discount and right off the whole conversation. I think some of the brainwashing eventually sept in though.

Many times during her verbal onslaught, I would find myself totally engrossed in my mind in a completely different topic. I did not need to participate in the conversation, only every once in a while pretend like I had an opinion and she would insert her own intention for me, finish my thought and then argue with herself.

[michel71]

Thanks Heart. Glad to know I am not alone in this. Did this get better or worse?

[Caramel]

Hi Michel

I have experienced that too.

I became so stressed during his rages that my memory just went blank. Later on he mentioned something about the argument and the fact that I couldn't remember anything made him even more angry. He thought I was lying and manipulating.

The only engagement I had in the conversations was to say that I was sorry for whatever he was accusing me or blaming me for! I was not allowed to express more.

Even now after 6 months of no contact, my mind still goes blank and I stare into space when I'm telling my therapist about his rages. My mind does not want to go there anymore. The fact that I'm getting panic attacks from remembering anything related to him tells me my mind is trying very hard to erase some painful memories.

Gosh, that relationship was so toxic.

[buterfly]

Absolutely! I connected immediately to your subject line! The level of confusion that I felt during and after a rage could easily be forgotten. At first I found this unhealthy, so I journaled, and tried to voice record like mad, attempting to remember. I don't know why I wanted to remember all of the B.S. That he said in a rage. Maybe I thought one day he would see how aweful he treated me through this, or maybe I supposed it was an answer to why he treated me that way, 13 yrs. later... .

P.s. I have also been fortunate enough to have a T that I could meet with immediately after a rage, so that I could vent it out. I recall calling my T during rages (his ex wife was BPD, too, so he understood), to vent as well, when I could get away.

Anyway, two months out now, and the only way I seem to remember is by re-reading my experiences.  Even then, It's still hard to recall, and I am sad that at least 40% of my experiences have slipped through the cracks of time. In fact, most of the time I'm not even angry at him, when I know I should be. I want to be angry though, I want to cry, I want to be able to explain, but I still can't, so Perhaps it's better that way.

[pavilion]

I think it would be imposdible to remember what they were about, what triggered them and the narrative involved. Especially if, like me, you close down to protect yourself. The important thing to take to your therapist are the emotions you feel and the sense of confusion, isolation, guilt, shame ... .whatever you feel. The content of the rage is not important as they are probably all along similar lines.

[Heartandsole]

Thanks Heart. Glad to know I am not alone in this. Did this get better or worse?

For me it did not get better, but I have left the house since early May and refuse to talk to her in a 1:1 live situation to protect myself and have asked for a divorce.   I really got into knowing this was BPD since leaving, so my experience may not be as pertinent to your situation. 

If I could go back in time and tell myself what to do, it would be to set some boundaries like "three F-bomb rule and coversation is over"

"One name-calling and or devaluing or intentional demeaning comment- convo is over"

"Touch me in anger- over"

"Any conversation longer than 1 hour I can take a break by myself for as long as I feel appropriate"

For me, the core of many of the issues of the rages were so vague that it was hard to follow.  She would say things like "You are such a bleeping bleep bleep because you have never been able to make me feel "safe" or "taken care of" or you never "stand up for me".  Meanwhile it was you are such a weak human being, I have no respect for you, I can't move forward with the hollow miserable life you are providing.  You need to grow a pair and deal with your "issues".  I am so disgusted by all your decisions and actions recently.

Do you see what I mean?  I feel like I'm being blasted with a verbal onslaught, but the rages were more about spewing emotion that talking in specifics IE: "Heartandsole, when you didn't iron the clothes on Tuesday night, it made me feel like you don't respect me"

I think it is a powerful combo of dissociation along with not really "getting it"  How many times have I heard that one... .  You just don't "get it"  you don't "understand me"  you are the biggest clueless idiot I have ever met.  She was right I don't get it. Not during the rage, and afterward I can't piece together the irrational line of thinking because it didn't make sense in the first place to me at least.

Making the problem worse, is that in order to try to make peace in the relationship at some point in the argument I'd listen to try and find something that I can apologize for and then latch onto that.  Inevitably my apology was not delivered with enough passion or enough grovelling so that it didn't count.  One of the last arguments we had I apologized up and down and that wasn't enough.  She wanted an apology in writing, and when she didn't get it in the timeline she expected, I actually was apologizing for not reinforcing the original apology with a written apology!  Looking back I see now how absurd this is, but it was my life for a long time.

When you apologize for things that you don't really mean it does two VERY damaging things.

1. You are handing over ammo for a future fight because in essense you are lying.  If you really aren't sorry, then you are likely to repeat the same behavior and that sets you up to be called a liar (or if you promise to do or not do something but you end up not remembering what you said)

2. You lose your self respect and self worth and you end up not standing up for yourself or the things you believe in, and when you start believing in the version of you that is crammed down your ears, you are gone and it's hard to find yourself again while in that environment.

This may sound harsh, but the best way I have described this phenomenon of forgetting to others is that it is like what happens when someone is the victim of repeatedly being raped and they "go somewhere else" while they are being violated.  They have given up fighting and just "check out" for a while.   I feel like my ears have been raped.

If in a normal, healthy relationship, someone was as passionate as my uBPDw was raging, you would think... ."Man, better remember about this, because you F'd up bad!"

The problem is that the reaction for not doing something small like folding the laundry is then twisted to mean "You didn't fold the laundry like I asked because you are a selfish pig who doesn't even care about me" and then the reaction to that would be appropriate if the actual offense was more like "You left our infant in a hot car while you were at the strip club with your girlfriend you are cheating on me with"

When the punishment (verbal beating) doesn't fit the crime, I think it's easy to tell yourself that it wasn't about the crime obviously... .so you don't log it into your brain as a wrongdoing, so you can't remember later.

[LilHurt420]

absolutely!  After each rage and dysregulation period, when things calm down after a day or two I tend to forgot major details of why it happened.  It happens so often that each time it does it's hard for me to remember the last time and why it happened.  I just remember how hopeless and angry I feel/felt that it is happening again.

I always mean to start a journal of what happens... .but never do for fear of him finding it one day.

[thereishope]

I don't know if it is PTSD. Perhaps not since I am still in this downward spiral of a relationship but as I am losing my sanity I am also losing the ability to recount in my mind the details of what my BPD wife rages  about. I go to my therapist and have a hard time recalling the specifics. As I experience more and more of them, I remember less and less of the details and can only zone in on my feelings of hopelessness, anger and frustration. Is that normal? Does that mean I AM GETTING SICKER because of her BPD?

You know the Charlie Brown movies? My BPD wife, to me, is sounding like Charlie Brown's parents when they talk... ."Wa Wo Wa Wa". I tune out the words but not the wounds.

Not only this, but I find myself getting immediately stressed when uBPDh starts asking me about anything... .I know I have to "give a report", so my brain shuts down and I have a really hard time remembering details of the situation... .This makes him mad in another way... .I'm already in trouble because he thinks I'm lying about having a hard time remembering, and that I am choosing to lie to him and hide things... .It's horrible.

[stuckgirl]

I don't know if it is PTSD. Perhaps not since I am still in this downward spiral of a relationship but as I am losing my sanity I am also losing the ability to recount in my mind the details of what my BPD wife rages  about. I go to my therapist and have a hard time recalling the specifics. As I experience more and more of them, I remember less and less of the details and can only zone in on my feelings of hopelessness, anger and frustration. Is that normal? Does that mean I AM GETTING SICKER because of her BPD?

You know the Charlie Brown movies? My BPD wife, to me, is sounding like Charlie Brown's parents when they talk... ."Wa Wo Wa Wa". I tune out the words but not the wounds.

it happens to me too,i  hurt the same amount but i dont remember what i was being reprimanded for.when he talks about an argument in which 'i wasnt admitting he was right',i have a hard time remembering which one,so i dont say anything to keep from finding out that i dont even remember what he said,much less admit he was right.boy would that start a horrible fight... but then i wouldn't remember what the argument was about.

[Take2]

This has happened to me many times.  It does seem to be a defense mechanism.

And I too get accused of lying bc I forget what he's talking about.  I have tried to explain to him that I get frazzled when he gets angry, or even if simply anticipate anger for nothing at all.  But that only gave him ammunition to claim I was making it all up.

It's a very difficult situation.   To go through and to stay strong through emotionally.

Also my exBPD bf can and does talk circles around me in these situations and winds up accusing me of stuff I have no idea what he's talking about at all.  It is always a no win situation if I try to respond in ANY way.  Even validation of his feelings angers him now.  Unless I specifically accept responsibility for whatever it is he is accusing me of, real or not, I lose.

If I do accept it.  I lose.  Ugh

[thereishope]

This has happened to me many times.  It does seem to be a defense mechanism.

And I too get accused of lying bc I forget what he's talking about.  I have tried to explain to him that I get frazzled when he gets angry, or even if simply anticipate anger for nothing at all.  But that only gave him ammunition to claim I was making it all up.

It's a very difficult situation.   To go through and to stay strong through emotionally.

Also my exBPD bf can and does talk circles around me in these situations and winds up accusing me of stuff I have no idea what he's talking about at all.  It is always a no win situation if I try to respond in ANY way.  Even validation of his feelings angers him now.  Unless I specifically accept responsibility for whatever it is he is accusing me of, real or not, I lose.

If I do accept it.  I lose.  Ugh

Can totally relate... .I'm sorry you've had to deal with this... .It truly is probably the hardest thing I've ever been through... .I am amazed that after only 4 years... .In virtually EVERY circumstance, my mind automatically formulates a way he is going to be offended or upset by my behavior, and puts stress on me to try to "walk on eggshells" and "choose the correct path", so as not to upset him... .I'm amazed we have had enough instances of him being upset about anything and everything that I expect it in almost every circumstance... ."anticipating anger for nothing at all", as you wrote... . 

[Take2]

Thereishope. ... .anticipating the rage when logically there is no reason to is a symptom of PTSD.

We've been so conditioned to it just exploding out of nowhere that at least in my case I at times found myself reacting in anger when he did rage and then having him call ME crazy... .

Ugh.  After so much... .  I'm not even really involved with my ex anymore (but can't stay NC because we work together) I am just beyond exhausted. ... .

[thereishope]

Thereishope. ... .anticipating the rage when logically there is no reason to is a symptom of PTSD.

We've been so conditioned to it just exploding out of nowhere that at least in my case I at times found myself reacting in anger when he did rage and then having him call ME crazy... .

Ugh.  After so much... .  I'm not even really involved with my ex anymore (but can't stay NC because we work together) I am just beyond exhausted. ... .

I have wondered about PTSD... .I'll have to research that a little... .I, too, have been called "crazy", been told I need to "grow up", and have definitely shown "the worst of me" in the ways I've been at a loss and simply reacting to BPD as we have gone along, especially before I knew what we were dealing with... .  "Beyond exhausted" is a good way to describe this feeling... .I'm sorry you feel it too.

[Zon]

I always mean to start a journal of what happens... .but never do for fear of him finding it one day.

Maybe, you can put it on an encrypted drive/partition or upload it (already encrypted with some tool) somewhere like Dropbox.  There are probably other options.

[buterfly]

There is a free journal app with a pass code on it. I used this on weekends, and kept my "real" journal at work. My BPD was the same way.

[Proud_Dad]

This has happened to me many times.  It does seem to be a defense mechanism.

And I too get accused of lying bc I forget what he's talking about.  I have tried to explain to him that I get frazzled when he gets angry, or even if simply anticipate anger for nothing at all.  But that only gave him ammunition to claim I was making it all up.

It's a very difficult situation.   To go through and to stay strong through emotionally.

Also my exBPD bf can and does talk circles around me in these situations and winds up accusing me of stuff I have no idea what he's talking about at all.  It is always a no win situation if I try to respond in ANY way.  Even validation of his feelings angers him now.  Unless I specifically accept responsibility for whatever it is he is accusing me of, real or not, I lose.

If I do accept it.  I lose.  Ugh

Can totally relate... .I'm sorry you've had to deal with this... .It truly is probably the hardest thing I've ever been through... .I am amazed that after only 4 years... .In virtually EVERY circumstance, my mind automatically formulates a way he is going to be offended or upset by my behavior, and puts stress on me to try to "walk on eggshells" and "choose the correct path", so as not to upset him... .I'm amazed we have had enough instances of him being upset about anything and everything that I expect it in almost every circumstance... ."anticipating anger for nothing at all", as you wrote... . 

Thereishope. ... .anticipating the rage when logically there is no reason to is a symptom of PTSD.

We've been so conditioned to it just exploding out of nowhere that at least in my case I at times found myself reacting in anger when he did rage and then having him call ME crazy... .

Ugh.  After so much... .  I'm not even really involved with my ex anymore (but can't stay NC because we work together) I am just beyond exhausted. ... .

I have wondered about PTSD... .I'll have to research that a little... .I, too, have been called "crazy", been told I need to "grow up", and have definitely shown "the worst of me" in the ways I've been at a loss and simply reacting to BPD as we have gone along, especially before I knew what we were dealing with... .  "Beyond exhausted" is a good way to describe this feeling... .I'm sorry you feel it too.

I can relate to every post in this tread. I think it is partially a defense mechanism developed through constant stress. I catch myself staring off into space ant thinking about other things while my uBPDgf rails on about how horribly I treat her.

I also think that these rage (or "conversations" as that are called in my house) are so frequent and absurd that I do not have enough space in my head to save them all.

[thereishope]

I can relate to every post in this tread. I think it is partially a defense mechanism developed through constant stress. I catch myself staring off into space ant thinking about other things while my uBPDgf rails on about how horribly I treat her.

I also think that these rage (or "conversations" as that are called in my house) are so frequent and absurd that I do not have enough space in my head to save them all.

I like the suggestion to document everything... .I just downloaded an android app to my phone called Memo Journal which has a password lock... .I forget everything very quickly after it happens, and I also don't think I am seeing how destructive the events are in general... .I believe writing it down is a good way to actually LOOK at what's going on in a more objective light possibly?... .and also to have a document of it if necessary in the future... . 

[Mutt]

I can relate to every post in this tread. I think it is partially a defense mechanism developed through constant stress. I catch myself staring off into space ant thinking about other things while my uBPDgf rails on about how horribly I treat her.

I also think that these rage (or "conversations" as that are called in my house) are so frequent and absurd that I do not have enough space in my head to save them all.

I would fase out or dissociate (daydream) often when she was emotionally dysregulated or rage. My exBPDw would dissociate with rages. I believe I dissociated from the environment, trauma due to PTSD.

Common behaviour:

- Daydreaming, fasing out = dissociation

- depersonalised sex = dissociation

- "Black and White" thinking = dissociation

- Self mutilation, cutting = dissociation

- Remembering things differently than others do, lying = dissociation

- Raging = dissociation

French psychiatrist Pierre Janet:

The French psychiatrist Pierre Janet (1859-1947) coined the term in his book L'Automatisme psychologique; he emphasized its role as a defensive maneuver in response to psychological trauma. While he considered dissociation an initially effective defence mechanism that withdraws the individual psychologically from the impact of overwhelming traumatic events, a habitual tendency to dissociate would, however, promote psychopathology.

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