Feeling Hopeless

[vortex of confusion]

I had been reading through the lessons but had to take a break for a while so I could think and process and try to figure out positive steps to take.

My husband and I have made a lot of progress in the last year. We can actually have conversations that don't devolve into fights. That is huge. Plus, he has been taking a lot more initiative around the house and has improved his relationship with the kids. All of this is really good and I am very happy that so much has improved. However, I don't feel like there is any intimacy (physical or emotional) at all.

Last night, he tells me that he would love to cuddle and be held. I couldn't do it. The first thought that I had was, "Why should I cuddle and hold and reassure you? I have wanted that our entire marriage but never got it." I want and need space but at the same time I don't want to jeopardize things further. I am fighting feelings of giving in but then I question my own motives. Am I setting a boundary or am I being vengeful? I won't lie. I had a lot of angry feelings when he said that now he feels awkward even putting his arm around me.

Part of me wants to melt but another part of me wants to yell and scream and say things like, "How dare you act like the poor wounded child that just needs to be held and cuddled?" <sigh>

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[nightmoves]

Hi Vortex,

Please know that I cannot begin to understand all you may have gone thru - and i DO understand the ':)AMN IT' moments of not really wanting to "give in" after being hurt - but maybe I can help a bit from a mans point of view.

I REALLY think the best step is to cuddle. It is the best default not matter what. (and yea... .I GET the boundary thing)

I think all men suffer a bit of emotional short term memory. What I mean is that ... .for that moment ... .he really DOES have a need for connection. It "may" be seen as selfish. It "may" be seen as needy.

But one thing for sure... .it IS genuine. And that is WHERE you want to go together ... .right?

I guess it comes down to what is abetter place to perhaps change the path... .hugging... .or pushing away?

I think most men are VERY quick to stay in an aggressive/defensive/closed off posture, So a request to cuddle or hug is a genuine statement.

A refusal... by you... .is also then seen as a GENUINE statement.

I understand that there is a lot of possible resentment... .and trust me... .he REALLY knows that. He also places the advance to cuddle as about 90% chance you will refuse. So TRY and see this as a REAL tough thing he just did. You may see it as needy ... .for him... .it may have been REALLY difficult to put himself at the 90% rejection risk.

Again- don't have the entire back story ... .so please do not see this as a suggestion to do anything... .just trying to give you back what I first felt as a guy - when I read this post.

[Bear60]

I don't feel like there is any intimacy (physical or emotional) at all.

Part of me wants to melt but another part of me wants to yell and scream and say things like, "How dare you act like the poor wounded child that just needs to be held and cuddled?" <sigh>

I am in same place Vortex, she keeps telling me she needs me to be more intimate but I am having a hard time feeling it, about the time I start to feel something we have another breakdown and it is taking me longer and longer to get over them. How they think they are the only poor wounded child makes you want to scream.

I too keep reading and trying to work towards a better r/s, I keep thinking it took time to get to this point and will take time to get back. Hang in there and we all hope things will improve.

[MissyM]

Vortex, it is ok to say that you miss it too but are afraid of that right now.  You have a right to your feelings and sometimes talking about them helps move you forward. I don't really have a hard time being affectionate but wouldn't force it while I was feeling angry.  Is there something he could do to help you feel more affectionate?

[vortex of confusion]

I REALLY think the best step is to cuddle. It is the best default not matter what. (and yea... .I GET the boundary thing)

That has been the default for year. I don't ever recall not wanting to cuddle. Actually, it was quite the opposite. I would want to cuddle and he wouldn't OR cuddling would turn into sex. For years, I would cuddle him and hold him and rub his back so he could go to sleep. I will never forget one night when I was a bit anxious over something and I really wanted and needed someone to talk to, cuddle with, anything and he rejected me. It is so difficult for me to be okay with cuddling with him.

I think all men suffer a bit of emotional short term memory. What I mean is that ... .for that moment ... .he really DOES have a need for connection. It "may" be seen as selfish. It "may" be seen as needy.

I do not question his sincerity nor do I see him as being needy. In all honesty, I am trying NOT to consider him because I have put him ahead of my feelings for so long. Not cuddling when I don't feel like cuddling is huge for me. There have been so many times that I have held him and cuddled him and reassured him.

I guess it comes down to what is abetter place to perhaps change the path... .hugging... .or pushing away?

I see more options than just hugging or pushing away. I still give him hugs and kisses. This evening he announced that he was going to bed but he made no effort to give me a hug or a kiss. That is our usual routine. I tend to be an affectionate person. I have no problems with hugs or kisses. I am talking about cuddling and being in that really close position where there is a lot of physical proximity.

A refusal... by you... .is also then seen as a GENUINE statement.

In all honesty, the only statement that I am trying to make is that this is MY body and I have control over MY body. I am not his teddy bear, his sex toy, or his mommy. If I don't feel like being touched in certain ways, then I should be able to resist those touches. Given our history, a simple hug can turn into something that was never intended.

Again- don't have the entire back story ... .so please do not see this as a suggestion to do anything... .just trying to give you back what I first felt as a guy - when I read this post.

When I read your response to my post, I got angry. I got angry because I have done so many things in the past because I was focused on him and his needs. I have a strong need to have some physical distance. My husband nagged me until I slept with another guy. And then, he nagged me for all of the details. The only way I could get him interested in me was to give him details of what I had done with another man. Even now, he regularly questions me and asks me if I am talking to any other guys. I do have a friend that I talk to from time to time but I refuse to tell my husband because his reaction is to get excited about it want to have sex with me. Frankly, the thought of giving or receiving anything more than a hug and an innocent kiss disgusts me.

[vortex of confusion]

Vortex, it is ok to say that you miss it too but are afraid of that right now.  You have a right to your feelings and sometimes talking about them helps move you forward. I don't really have a hard time being affectionate but wouldn't force it while I was feeling angry.  Is there something he could do to help you feel more affectionate?

Given our history, I don't know what would make me feel more affectionate. He has been in a funk for the last several days. I talked to him about it the other day and he indicated that cuddling and holding would make him feel better. I felt like it was a bit of manipulation. I felt like he was trying to say that he would feel better if I would give him some affection. That has never really worked. He gets what he wants from me and then that is it. It is usually very one sided and I am the one that does the holding, the cuddling, and the reassuring. If I were to want or need those things, I would not get them. I am not sure whether I feel like his mother or what. I definitely don't feel like his wife.

And, it is difficult to feel affectionate towards someone that continually talks about his struggles and his recovery and his this and his that. I do all of the validating and have used so many of the communication techniques found here and in other places (in the past). I so badly want to scream, "What about MY struggles? What about the fact that my husband can only get excited by me if he knows that other men want me? What about the fact that I hold it together day in and day out? What about the fact that I try to work with the kids so that they are respectful to him and treat him well? What about the fact that the kids have picked up on how he treats me and now they do the same?"

When he is sleeping, I tell the kids to leave dad alone because he needs his sleep. When I am sleeping, he tells the kids to leave me alone or I am going to get mad. I rarely get mad when the kids wake me up. Most of the time, if I hear them, I wake up automatically and take care of things anyway. I work two part time jobs. I am the one that takes care of all of the finances (he has started helping with that to a degree), almost all of the child care as one of my jobs is work from home and I was able to finangle my schedule so that I am only working 12 hours a week when he is off of work. I am the one responsible for most of the housework. Heck, I have even had to crawl up in the attic and clean the coils on the AC unit because we couldn't afford to call a repairman. For a while, I was even doing most of the yard work. He has started doing more but I am still friggin' exhausted and cannot bear the thought of feeling like the only way to get him out of his funk is to hold him and cuddle him. I want to collapse some days. But I know I can't because I have four kids that need at least one parent that is steady and reliable.

<sigh> I didn't mean for this to be so long. I started writing and couldn't seem to stop.

[vortex of confusion]

I am in same place Vortex, she keeps telling me she needs me to be more intimate but I am having a hard time feeling it, about the time I start to feel something we have another breakdown and it is taking me longer and longer to get over them. How they think they are the only poor wounded child makes you want to scream.

My fear is that I will stop getting over it. I feel like a jerk because I have been begging him to be more intimate and affectionate (sexually and non-sexually) and now that he is at least expressing a desire I am not feeling it at all. Not only am I not feeling it but there are times when I feel downright disgusted by it. I don't know if it is possible for me to get over the fact that he pressured me to have sex with other men and then pressured me to tell him about it. The day after our 15th wedding anniversary he tried to get me to go have sex with some other guy. I didn't do it but that stuff is still there in my psyche and I am not sure how to let it go. The more distance I get on all of it, the more disgusted and hurt I am because the truth of it all is really beginning to set in.

[MissyM]

Vortex, what you are describing isn't just sex addiction but sexual abuse.  I know of spouses that have had that from their sex addicts.  This takes really specialized help and you may never want to have sex with him again.  Are you seeing a CSAT?  Is he seeing a CSAT?  This stuff takes years to deal with, even without the sexual abuse part.  Honey, it is absolutely ok that you do not want to hug this man.