splitting is a trigger

[caughtnreleased]

Hi All,

I have come to realize recently that I have grown up in a family where I was constantly split white or black with my sibling, and that to this day it continues.   It has affected me enormously in my relationships, and is an enormous trigger for me.  When I was younger, I used to just explode when a boyfriend would try and provoke me by stirring up my jealousy.  I would react with a lot of anger, and he used it to control me.  I then had a boyfriend who didn't do this, and while other things caused the relationship to fall apart, I am incredibly grateful that he never went that route... .I'm not exactly sure why but it was all kept under control. 

More recently though, if anyone I am involved with who tries to stir up feelings of jealousy in me I tend to immediately get extremely strong feelings of anger and revulsion, and if they tread carefully, I will reject them in a rather extreme fashion.   

I have also come to realize that although it's immature, and sometimes reflects insecurity, quite a few men will let a girl they are dating know that they are in demand.  When anyone does this though, I immediately see it as manipulation and if it happens a few times, I run.  I'm not really sure what to do, because while this type of behaviour can either be really unhealthy, a little bit of it is probably normal.  I don't really know how to differentiate.  It's such a big trigger for me and it's clouding my judgement as to whether I am too harsh in suddenly dropping someone who might try and play the jealousy card a little too often.  Also, I know I have ambivalence issues in relationships, which is why I think perhaps some people I have dated will play this card with me... .so it's a bit of a catch 22.  I am ambivalent, a guy will try and get my attention my playing the jealousy card, and I'll kick him to the curb so fast he doesn't know what hit him.  How do I get out of this vicious cycle! 

caught

[fromheeltoheal]

Personally I don't like playing cards.  Relationships can be messy, since there are two people's emotions involved, but in the cleanest sense, two people date, they get to know each other, whether or not they're dating other people at the time is irrelevant.  They get to know each other better and decide to go "exclusive", meaning there's a dating commitment involved, and both people will stop dating others.  Then, it progresses, they get married, get old, and die together, or at some point before that they part ways.  And start dating other people again.  Simple.  Easier said than done sometimes.

So jealousy is based in insecurity; totally secure people wouldn't be affected if someone tried to "make them jealous", although they might be offended that someone tried.  So ask yourself: why do men find a need to mention they are in demand?  Control, since the perception is they are increasing their value and taking an upper hand in the relationship, and the one who loves least is in control?  Or insecurity, like you mention, in that they are enamored with you and feel inferior, so again, they try and increase their worth in your eyes?  Or they think you are dating other people who are 'better' than them and they're attracted to you, so again they're trying to increase their worth?

Lots of options.  I say the way out of the vicious cycle is to work on your own security, your own opinion of yourself, and the higher it gets, the more grateful those guys better be to be with you, because you don't need that crap, and you don't play cards.  One man's opinion... .

[caughtnreleased]

Thanks heal for the message. You are right, that things should be straight forward.  But it seems to be a pattern that happens with a lot of men that I have dated, and so I am trying to determine why that is. I actually discovered, by dating one person, that I am not jealous, because if it is handled in a mature way, then I am fine with it.  It's just when people play manipulative games that I lose it.  I lose it on them, I don't even care what it is they might have with the other person, but it's that they are trying to manipulate me that I find extremely hurtful, and I am generally good at indentifying this. 

I feel like it happens as a combination of the men I choose and a result of my own behaviour in relationships, which causes men to want to provoke a strong reaction out of me.  So I want to make some changes so that at least I am no longer playing a part in this pattern. I do think that in relationships I am very ambivalent, which is perhaps the root problem in my dating life, and why I remain single, or enter unstable relationships. My mother continues to split between my sister and I... .or at least manipulate us in order to get more attention from us.  It works for my sister, who continues to try to please her to gain her approval, and as we know, this is futile with a pwBPD.  It no longer works for me. I'm going my own way.  But, it still hurts, because I feel left out and very alone.

My first boyfriend was probably one of the worst in the jealousy provoking department.  He did it to provoke me, to a) be more aggressive in persuing him prior to our dating, that worked. to b)provoke me and create giant fights to sabotage my plans when he felt insecure (such as when I had plans to go to parties that did no involve him). That worked too. c) get me back after a breakup, and it worked once, but not a second time.   So, he used my anger to manipulate me to more forcefully act to make the relationship happen, and to stay in the relationship with him.   But ultimately it's what ended the relationship.

Another ex did it when he felt I wasn't really interested in him... .and that backfired on him too.  My BPDex did it on a permanent basis. I ignored it, until I couldn't anymore, and exploded at him.  I feel he was doing it because yes, he felt very insecure around me, and in fact admitted to it.  I think in his eyes I was everything he wished he could be but didn't think he was : independent, smart, passionate, up front and honest, and interesting (if I may say so myself .  So, it seems that many of my ex boyfriends have done it to get my attention, to control me, and perhaps to make me insecure so that I persue them more.

But I feel there is something in this equation that I am a part of and I no longer want to play a part in this pattern.  But I'm having difficulty figuring it out... .

[fromheeltoheal]

Interest name, caughtnreleased; seems like that may be in reference to the relationships you describe.

Yes C&R, I'm not a fan of manipulation either.  I'm terrible at game playing in general, because I never practice, and it seems we need to be somewhat good at it to function in social situations.  I thought for a long time that I needed to get good at it to hold my own when people are being snarky, judgmental, difficult, whatever, and killing a few of them has come to mind more than once, but today I'm saying screw it; let who I am fly, and if the reaction is negative and judgmental, on to the next, life is too short.  That's been somewhat working lately, in that some people like me and light up when I'm myself, and once they figure out I'm not trying to manipulate or be anything I'm not, they get comfortable and stick around.

As far as dating goes, I'm not in the relationship of my dreams, in fact I have a sketchy track record, borderlines included, so please don't assume I know what I'm talking about.  But I do think I know what a healthy relationship looks like, one in which both partners make the other person the priority and focus on their needs, not above my own mind you, but as far as the relationship goes, meeting their needs is job one.  Trying to manipulate a partner is very dysfunctional to me, it's lying basically, and it's better to just express whatever is causing the desire to manipulate in the first place; that creates closeness and intimacy, or it causes the end of the relationship.  Either way is better than sticking around for dysfunction, and I do very well alone, plus being alone and being lonely are two different things.

You mention you're ambivalent in relationships and your behavior provokes men to act up in certain ways.  What do you mean by that exactly?

[caughtnreleased]

I guess through ambivalence, I have generally been rather non committal in my relationships... .and have never expressed to my partners that they are my priority.   The one boyfriend who did not play the jealousy card was constantly complaining that I did not give enough priority to him, and essentially berated me for the time of our relationship that he was not sufficiently important to me. He also called me on the fact that every time we got into a big argument, I would threaten to leave him.  And its true that it wasn't until we had broken up, that I signaled my desire to truly commit to the relationship... .it was too late.

With my exBPD, I also was unwilling to enter an official relationship with him... .perhaps with good reason.  But, it seems that my ambivalence leads me to have one foot in the relationship and one foot out... .always. Thus perhaps leading to manipulation by some of the men I'm with.  And generally, when they use their manipulative tactics I remove the one foot that was in the relationship in a rather sudden and dramatic way. 

[fromheeltoheal]

That makes sense.  I've been learning a lot about attachment styles lately, really speaks to me.  The three are secure, anxious and avoidant, and I have an anxious style; folks with anxious styles need a lot of reassurance in relationships, a lot of intimacy and closeness, and emotional connection during sex is important, among other things, as we tend to feel inferior to other people in general and have a negative opinion of ourselves.  That's true for me in general, not a life-crushing set of beliefs, in fact I like myself most of the time, but everything gets exagerrated in intimate relationships for me.  FYI, 60% of the population is said to have secure styles, with 20% anxious and 20% avoidant; one thing I like is that's 100% of the population, everyone has one, unlike those couple of percent that have personality disorders.

People with anxious or avoidant attachment styles use what's called "protest behavior" when things are not OK in a relationship, where people with secure styles just bring it up and talk about it.  If you were keeping an emotional distance from me I would know it, without a doubt, and might use the 'protest behavior' or trying to make you jealous, specifically to bring you closer, which is what I want and am not getting.  Of course the healthy way, and hopefully I'm capable of this now, in fact I was capable of it in my relationship with the borderline but she wasn't going there, would be to sit down and talk about what's really going on and work towards a resolution, or a separation, whatever comes out of the conversation.

So what we all really want is that stellar connection with another person; humans are social animals, born to connect.  Someone with an avoidant style sees a threat when they get too close to someone, a loss of their independence, so they use distancing behaviors to keep their partner at bay.  That is totally toxic to an anxious person like me, but a secure one, someone who is equally confortable in intimacy and independence, would persevere and probably influence the avoidant person; attachment styles are fixed yet plastic.  Any of that speaking to you?

[caughtnreleased]

Heal,

Thank you for your insight. That definitely does speak to me, so thank you for this analogy and for drawing on your own experience. I am not sure where I fit in all of it... .it could possible be avoidant but I'm not really sure... .I rarely, if ever, have expressed my needs in relationships, because I am sure that it will be used against me.   When I met my first boyfriend, I was interested in him, but too shy, and insecure to show interest... .so he provoked me through jealousy.   My second boyfriend, I was intrigued by, but remember coming up with many (relatively valid in retrospect) reasons as to why he was not a good candidate, but I let myself be persuaded by his constant, non stop pursuit.  During the relationship, it was all about his needs, and what I wasn't doing to meet them.  When I met my BPDex, I fell for him instantly, but HE then instilled the fear of God into me when he told me after our instant connection that he had BPD, and was a former heroin addict.  With him, for the first time in my life, I found someone who temporarily gave me comfort from a sadness I had, until then, not been aware of.  And during our short lived and volatile relationship, I worried about whether he would answer my messages, whether I would see him again, I dialed him multiple times to the point of getting blocked... .all these were firsts for me... .it turned me upside down. And because I was so paralyzed with fear, I broke it off with him after just a few weeks.  I was just too terrified, mostly of how strong my feelings were for him, combined with the information he had volunteered about himself. 

How have I dealt with conflict? Usually, explosively.  More recently I've tried to talk things out with people I am seeing, but generally it seems like things just get to a point where they explode or implode and then I just reject the person.  I suppose it does sound like a form of avoidant... .maybe? it's hard to tell.  And if that's what it is... .how does one overcome these issues?

[fromheeltoheal]

And if that's what it is... .how does one overcome these issues?

By picking better partners, to begin with.  Since I left my borderline ex I've interacted with several women where the alarm bells were going off loud and clear; I think after the experience with her, an extreme case, I'm now hyper-aware of things that just seem off, and the good news is I've met several women who have it together too, and I'm noticing the difference, which I consider progress.

The other piece is to act more secure; as mentioned, attachment styles are fixed but they're plastic, in fact an anxious person being with a secure person in a good relationship can make the anxious partner more secure.  I'm up for that.  Acting more secure can be as simple as asking 'what would a secure person do in this situation?'  We all know people who just seem to create lasting, positive relationships, and success leaves clues.  Plus, it doesn't have to be that hard.  A relationship with the right partner flows easily, and the inevitable challenges are overcome in a way that makes the relationship stronger.

The book Attached by Levine and Heller has helped me, it's a great reframe on all things relationship, and totally explained why I went down such a rabbit hole with my ex, apart from showing me tools moving forward.

[caughtnreleased]

Thanks heal. Do you think that those with anxious or avoidant attachment styles can actually change and become secure? I guess I am not clear what you mean in terms of attachments styles being fixed but plastic.

Thanks.

[fromheeltoheal]

I'm parroting what I've read for now, as I'm learning and integrating, but we aren't stuck with an attachment style, aren't born with one.  If we grow up in a loving home and get our needs met, for example, and end up in young adulthood relatively secure in ourselves, and then have painful/traumatic first relationship experiences, that can cause us to be more anxious in future ones.  Also, an anxious-avoidant paring is a bad mix, and will make the anxious person more anxious, because we never know where we stand with someone who is always using distancing behaviors to keep us away; that was certainly true with my borderline ex, who was nothing but distant once she started cheating and devaluing me.

But one thing an anxious person has in common with a secure one is the ability and desire for closeness and intimacy; they are both capable and willing to open their hearts and create a strong emotional bond with their partner.  A secure person does it naturally and easily, and an anxious one needs it to reassure them that the relationship is solid and intact.  So if a secure person does go there with an anxious one, the anxious one becomes more secure in the relationship, and more secure in general.  Gimme summa that!  And if two anxious people get together they can still create great intimacy, they just need to work a little harder reassuring each other, which ain't a bad thing, and will probably make them both more secure.

[caughtnreleased]

Hmmm. this is very interesting. Thank you for it. I think I'll have a look at that book you recommended. I would have thought people with BPD are more anxious than avoidant, since they are constantly in fear of being abandonned.  Although I must admit, that my BPDex being the exception, my other exes were rather very cold from an affectionate perspective, and I remember that they in fact rarely ever showed me any affection.  I'm starting to think that while I may be ambivalent, perhaps I am somewhat anxious in my attachment style.  The anxious side REALLLLY came out with my BPDex.  It never manifested itself with any of my other ex boyfriends though.  I don't know if its worth anything, but I just took a test here: www.web-research-design.net/cgi-bin/crq/crq.pl  and I actually fell into the secure part, with low avoidance, but very close to crossing over into the anxious side... .I think I need to figure this out a bit more.  I don't actually believe I'm secure, because somehow I seem to be attracted to insecure attachment types... .