My Mom Splitting Her Grandchildren?

[Depression = 72% of members]

I may be overreacting here, not sure.

I took the kids to visit my mom and friends out of town yesterday. It's a 120 mi drive. I see my mom about every month and a half.

She spent time with us watching D2 and S4 swim. It was good. She brought books to read to them also, no matter that the books smelled of mildew, animal waste, and smoke due to her hoarding. Later, as we were exiting the place where we had dinner, a random diner commented on how pretty D2 was. As we were exiting, my mom said, "no wonder girls get so messed up with our society's obsession with beauty... ." she may have gone on a bit; I probably blocked it out. This is the same grandmother who comments on how handsome S4 is, and shows pictures of her grandchildren around the small county. I'm sure she takes pride on how cute they are. Father bias aside, they are very mixed race and good looking kids, better than me for sure, and even their pretty mom. People comment on it quite a bit. Personality goes a long way, and they have my irreverence (too much at times, which also triggers my mom, but I encourage it. Be happy!)

I get what she's saying, and agree to an extent of her point, but it bugged the heck out of me that she so suddenly said that, and in front of them. Of course, true to from, I said nothing. I'm avoidant, and alter between shutting up, or confronting my BPD mom and triggering her, thus triggering her running, after which I feel guilty.

My mom:s dementia is getting worse. I saw the difference in the month I last saw her. I don't get how she can still drive. I may have to deal with more than I'm ready for in this next year, especially with winter coming, but I'm trying to live week by week. I can't fight the future.

[Turkish]

I may be overreacting here, not sure.

I took the kids to visit my mom and friends out of town yesterday. It's a 120 mi drive. I see my mom about every month and a half.

She spent time with us watching D2 and S4 swim. It was good. She brought books to read to them also, no matter that the books smelled of mildew, animal waste, and smoke due to her hoarding. Later, as we were exiting the place where we had dinner, a random diner commented on how pretty D2 was. As we were exiting, my mom said, "no wonder girls get so messed up with our society's obsession with beauty... ." she may have gone on a bit; I probably blocked it out. This is the same grandmother who comments on how handsome S4 is, and shows pictures of her grandchildren around the small county. I'm sure she takes pride on how cute they are. Father bias aside, they are very mixed race and good looking kids, better than me for sure, and even their pretty mom. People comment on it quite a bit. Personality goes a long way, and they have my irreverence (too much at times, which also triggers my mom, but I encourage it. Be happy!)

I get what she's saying, and agree to an extent of her point, but it bugged the heck out of me that she so suddenly said that, and in front of them. Of course, true to from, I said nothing. I'm avoidant, and alter between shutting up, or confronting my BPD mom and triggering her, thus triggering her running, after which I feel guilty.

My mom:s dementia is getting worse. I saw the difference in the month I last saw her. I don't get how she can still drive. I may have to deal with more than I'm ready for in this next year, especially with winter coming, but I'm trying to live week by week. I can't fight the future.

[Harri]

Hi Turkish!  I have no idea if she is actually splitting your kids or not.  I am sure you are are aware that the hot topic in girl-child raising talk is about empowering girls for things other than physical characteristics and breaking stereotypes.  She may just be parroting what a lot of people are talking about these days.  I used the word parroting, not to be insulting, but because there are a lot of people who do the very thing your mom did and are completely unaware of how they do the very same thing to boys.  It seems there are a lot of people hopping on the latest bandwagon without putting a whole lot of thought into it.  Double standards abound and it seems sometimes that the pendulum is swinging too far in the opposite direction! 

I think it is good that you are aware of the possibility of your mom splitting your kids are are looking out for signs.  I don't see your being upset as overreacting.  Rather, I see it as being realistic about potential problems and potential abuse, so even though you felt upset, it is a good thing!  I love that you encourage your kids to be silly and funny even though it bothers your mother.    I agree that comments like she made about your daughter should not be made in front of the kids.  They are way too young to understand and are very likely to at least internalize the negative tone if nothing else.  The good news is it does not sound like the kids are around her all that much.     I have heard from friends with BPD mothers that they did split their grandchildren.  You know how damaging and painful that is so it is good you are aware. 

You have mentioned several times that you are avoidant and cautious about triggering your mother.  I understand the desire to avoid conflict and I do believe in picking your battles, but is being avoidant because she runs and then you feel guilty a good reason to not say anything?  I do not advocate deliberately triggering anyone, including yourself, but I don't think avoiding is good either, especially not when little ones are involved.  What do you think?

I am sorry to hear that your mothers dementia is getting worse.  I remember how hard it was for me to accept it with my dad.  It took me a good two weeks of being with him 24/7 before I allowed myself to realize just how bad he was (I can be thick like that!).  Have you started to think about how you will deal with living arrangements and care?  It can be pretty overwhelming, but I would recommend doing it now while you have some time to look at and think about options rather than waiting until you have to do something.  I would suggest contacting Elder Services in her home state to find out what services are available to her.  Things like adult day care, home care services, ride busses or organizations where volunteers drive the elderly to appointments and take them shopping, etc.

[Turkish]

My my mom thought their irreverence was funny this time (so I never know?), but they weren't acting like zombies. D2 is into being my Babypuppy now. Pants her toungue. So cute!

My mom has long had self image issues. When she got breast cancer a few years ago, she told her doctor she wanted them both chopped off (like Angelina Jolie, who is a diagnosed BPD). Her male doctor tried to tell my mom that her breasts were beautiful and that she didn't need a double mastectomy. She ended up with only one being removed. I want to support my mom, but even at 43, this qualified as "too much information." She went off on the standard spiel about society's expectations of beauty, etc. As much as i can understand as a man, i get it. I have a genetic condition which results in me looking slightly different. You don't have to lecture me about looks.

She's always told me she was homely. I saw child pics, and she was cute. Even the pics I saw of her in her 20s, she was a decent looking woman. After her 1960s experiment living the San Francisco hedonist lifestyle, she retreated to the suburbs, and adopted me, never having a bf for the next 20 years or so.

This isn't about D2, it's about her. 130 miles, and only seeing her about every month and a half helps.

The dementia is horrible. After dinner, we drove back to the RV park where she had left her truck (my truck I gave her 5 years ago, after which she proceeded to blow the clutch, then the engine... .it's a Toyota, it would have gone another 50k miles with no problems). She couldn't pick it out in the low light, even though it was covered in mud.

S4 had to go to the bathroom, so I drove around to the next lane, parked, and took him into the buildings to go. I took D2, not trusting her with my mom, even with the minimal traffic in the RV. Park. When we came back, kisses and hugs goodbye. My mom said, however, that she couldn't locate her truck. It was the next lane over.

It was late twilight. She had to get home to put her chickens into the coop... I was left wondering, "how  is she still able to drive?"

My mom has/had a near genius IQ. She used to be able to do long division in her head. I always sucked at math (I'm adopted). It's sad to see her like this.

Yes, I withheld comment, since my mom "runs away" when triggered, and yes, I feel bad. She's done it with my friends,and done it with me and my uBPDx, whom my mm was sure hated her (two people with diagnosed depression... .one would think they would bond, but quite the opposite).

I don't know about social services. My mom wants to "die on the mountain," as others here have said their BPD parent have telegraphed. I can understand this with my hermit tendencies.

My mom hoards, and is filthy. The one Chihuahua she would want to bring is the one who hates and bites everyone except my mom.

I have space now due to uBPDx moving out. I'd love for my kids to know their grandma better. But I also would hate her living with me. I think she would too.

[Turkish]

You have mentioned several times that you are avoidant and cautious about triggering your mother.  I understand the desire to avoid conflict and I do believe in picking your battles, but is being avoidant because she runs and then you feel guilty a good reason to not say anything?  I do not advocate deliberately triggering anyone, including yourself, but I don't think avoiding is good either, especially not when little ones are involved.  What do you think?

My mom is a runner. When I would invite her over for bbqs with my friends (because her house is almost unvisitable), we would joke around. Someone would invariably say something she didn't like, and she'd shut down, almost cry, and then get in her truck and go. She's known one of my friends for 30 years, as he is my childhood best friend. My other friend, about 11 years older than I am, she's known for 20 years. Everyone gets along, but no one is free from being a trigger. Fleeing is her standard MO. She almost did that once when she was down visiting me and my Ex. I had to talk her out of it. In general, I don't WoE around her, but then I know her triggers, and resent that in middle age, I still have to be careful in what I say. With LC, mostly due to physical distance and her age (I don't invite her down to the city anymore. Two years ago she got lost twice), it's not that much of a problem. I still regret that we can't spend more time with her. Maybe that's a good thing, but I still feel guilty.

Just the reek of stale cigarette smoke, mildew, and animal waste on the books she brings for the kids is enough to turn me off. I understand that it triggered my neurologically sensitive uBPDx (who was rather mean to my mom on many occasion, though to her credit, she did try to keep it under control sometimes). If I say anything, if offends her, even though when she spent three days in the hospital a couple of years ago, cleaned up, she commented that she understood it when smelling her jacket upon going home. Then she returns to the mess, and forgets. I suppose me worrying about how she is with the kids is the least of my worries, her vehement and preachy reaction to a kind comment of a stranger just bugged me.

Either this year (winter coming) or the next... .it's an exponential decay for her situation. Thankfully, things are very civil between me and the kids' mom, and her BPD traits are minimal now away from her trigger (me). I couldn't deal with both.

[Ziggiddy]

So many things to say here Turkish but I'll limit myself as I am exhausted today.

First trust your instinct. No one knows your mum better than you and you know/sense/feel what her behaviour is.

As far as your ex and your mother bonding over depression? Well I never saw two BPD people bond mostly because of the demand for scarce attention. I can imagine each resenting the the other for taking your time away.  Your mother has HER grandchildren and your ex has HER children. Theyboth have their unique 'ownership' of YOU. I imagine more competition than bonding in those cases.

Anjelina Jolie is BPD? i am SO glad to hear it. It explains a good deal to me.

I am very sorry to hear your daughter is no longer in zombie attack mode even though I don't like zombies. i do however love irreverence.

As long as you continue to reassure your daughter that her grandmother her mother and her father are off-the-chart whacko she won't have the image problem that your ma had. I have no way of assessing how pretty I am but like you, my daughters are of mixed race (I am half South African and half English - dark everything - hubby is Irish Australian - tawny blonde amber eyed.) My daughters are gorgeous. Except the youngest who was surprisingly ugly and bald as a bubba. She's stunning. Already knocking back the boys at age 7. So proud. i never had a boy interested in me till I was 23! But they have one thing in common - they are ok with how they look but much more interested in other things. Me: ":)aughter you are stunning' D11 "yeah Mum but can you lend me some eyeliner?" M: No you're too young and snazzy for makeup" Her <exasperated sigh> "I don't want to WEAR it, I need to take it to school for a practical joke. I want to mock 'Malachi' <fellow student> Ok it's in the drawer.

Anyway back to you - you seem to have to do a lot of counteracting but that is cool. your kids seem high in confidence from what you say. That is all. You don't need to make them perfect and you don't have to control your mother or your ex. They will do what they do. You naturally worry they will be affected but kids are bendy you know? You are giving your all, Turkish. let it be enough. I wonder if you are getting down on yourself underneath it all? Are you ok?

<Manly fist bump>