The Role of Choice

[Loveofhislife]

Over the past six weeks, I've seen many of us struggle with the concepts of whether or not pwBPD have the ability to make reasoned choices about their behavior or are they out of control and we nons should bear the brunt of accountability for failed or failing relationships? No, this is not the blame game. It's not about assigning blame. However, my exbfBPD gave cryptic warnings weeks before he just went silent on me: no huge fight, no break up. But he did foreshadow, "I think it's time for me to go dark again." So my belief is that he made a clear choice but not an ethical or empathetic one. We all make good and bad choices. What do you think?

[fromheeltoheal]

I think there's a root issue before that.  My ex left veiled messages too, plenty of clues that were obvious in hindsight, but I began to ask myself why was the communication in the relationship dependent on me picking up on veiled messages?  Because there was no open, honest communication and true emotional intimacy.  And yet I stayed, not for long mind you, but the fact that I went so far down that rabbit hole of dysfunction voluntarily, by choice as you put it, has been more than sobering for me since I left her.  What the fck was I thinking?  Well, lots of things, many of which didn't serve me.  And there's no way I can have a healthy relationship without investigating all of that, adjusting my beliefs, and changing my behavior.  The best way to have a healthy relationship is to become the type of person we would want to be in a healthy relationship with.  Hallelujah!  It's a brand new world.

[Indyan]

Hi loveofhislife, what does "pw" mean in "pwBPD"?

I don't feel it this way. To me, it's as if we both felt the crisis was back, like a big dark cloud in the horizon.

I clearly remember when, lying on the bed, I put my head on his chest and he caressed my head sofly without a word, for a long long time. I remember I felt incredibly sad, knowing that the storm, the hurricane was coming. The following days he kept saying "It's not your fault, it has nothing to do with you... ." and 2 weeks he wouldn't talk to me anymore.

We hadn't had it for 6 months... .

It destroyed everything on its way.

[Indyan]

My ex left veiled messages too, plenty of clues that were obvious in hindsight, but I began to ask myself why was the communication in the relationship dependent on me picking up on veiled messages?  

I don't understand - what clues and veiled messages?

Any examples?

[Loveofhislife]

Indyan--pw = people with. Thank you for your response and questions. Your response made me want to cry, because I remember that intimacy with my exbfBPD. When it was good, it was great! Weeks before he cut me off, I felt him distancing, but I didn't know why. Money troubles? He always had money troubles. Problems at work? He changed jobs three times in less than a year and appears ready to lose another. My "sensing" finally led to my weeping and wailing one week before he indeed dumped me. He said he needed my keys to give his son more than a week before he went silent. He never had done that, and it was very odd when he asked--he looked scared. Then he asked if I would wait for him so he could follow me back to my house in his car. What was he scared of? Looking back, my head knew something was up. Six weeks later, my heart has yet to catch up. I have no doubt his discard of me was premeditated, planned, and brilliantly executed.

[fromheeltoheal]

My ex left veiled messages too, plenty of clues that were obvious in hindsight, but I began to ask myself why was the communication in the relationship dependent on me picking up on veiled messages?  

I don't understand - what clues and veiled messages?

Any examples?

"A young guy in my speaking group was really cold" meant she had sex with him in his car in the parking lot.

"A really nice guy helped me fix my computer" meant she spent the weekend with him in a hotel room.

"I bet she's his mistress, who does that?" meant she was periodically hooking up with a married man.

In my denial I chose to take the words she said at face value, even though my gut was screaming to me what was really going on, and the more denial I went into, the more she felt shame for her behavior, the distance between us grew, and the more she raged.  Yuck.

Note to self: do not ignore your gut feel, it's still never wrong.

[Indyan]

You're describing what I call the "yo-yo effect", when they start being cold and distant. And yes, sometimes this can lead to breakup or a long silence.

But I do believe that final breakup comes mostly from the non's side.

I didn't really get what made you think he'd planned to dump you.

They feel the urge for sudden independance and do whatever they need to "feel free"... .then silence can last for long, but usually not forever.

I don't know your story... .have you initiated any contact since then?

[Loveofhislife]

Dear Indyan--to use your storm analogies.  Have you ever "sensed" when the barometer was dropping? Perhaps it was a change in pressure or a shift in the wind; maybe the air just felt a little different?  In addition to cryptic warnings, "I need to go dark again"--which I now believe was a veiled threat implying that if I didn't do exactly what he said and (in my case, he is HIGHLY motivated by money) "help" him with more money or excuse the debt for what he already owed, he would "go dark."  That happened about two weeks before the Silent Treatment (the storm) started. In the ensuing two weeks, he became stranger and colder.  He was easily angered and seemed agitated overall.  This is a person with whom I had spent every waking moment (except for work) for an entire year.  Suddenly, he wanted to change or cancel plans at the last minute.  He wanted to spend more time with his sons (something I had begged him to do for a year.)  I could FEEL him distancing, though nothing was ever spoken UNTIL I asked him after a particularly "cold" day, "How do you know you love me?" He stammered and stumbled and said, "Uh, oh, um... .well, I think we have fun." This is the same man who couldn't tell me enough how much he loved and adored me--the same man who couldn't be out of touch with me by phone/text for more than an hour and who did not want to be a part from me EVER.  Now he was having trouble thinking about why he loved me?  CHOICE:  I believe he consciously chose to sever his feelings for me (I believe I had become his trigger). I believe he consciously chose to distance himself from me--knowing I would be holding him accountable on August 1.  He asked for his keys back, which was VERY odd and somewhat foreboding, as we were having no problems at the time.  He began talking fondly of his ex wife:  something he had not done in the entire year I had known him.  He was having very long phone conversations (to himself) with  his "parents" and his "sons" in his car on the driveway of my house.  He couldn't talk to me on the phone when his sons were in the car (a HUGE change.)  Something was up.  He drove away from my home on August 1 saying, "I'll pay you your f'ing money," and that is the last time I have heard his voice.  The End?

[myself]

From my experiences, the original impulses my ex felt caused her to make horrible decisions which she then felt she had to defend/continue. The original moves were not her choices, but the latter were. She wasn't sleepwalking.

At a certain point, and I brought this up with her many times, she was responsible for dealing with those original impulses, and for what came after. She basically said the abuse she'd suffered was so bad it would be her lifelong excuse. She knew she had deep problems but chose to not deal with them.

When they've had many people in their lives offer help, to help them find help, and be there while they do, but they refuse? Burning bridges/hurting those people to their core? There's choice involved in that. Scared or not. Worried they're going to really be seen, or not. But my heart goes out to them.

[Blimblam]

From my experiences, the original impulses my ex felt caused her to make horrible decisions which she then felt she had to defend/continue. The original moves were not her choices, but the latter were. She wasn't sleepwalking.

At a certain point, and I brought this up with her many times, she was responsible for dealing with those original impulses, and for what came after. She basically said the abuse she'd suffered was so bad it would be her lifelong excuse. She knew she had deep problems but chose to not deal with them.

When they've had many people in their lives offer help, to help them find help, and be there while they do, but they refuse? Burning bridges/hurting those people to their core? There's choice involved in that. Scared or not. Worried they're going to really be seen, or not. But my heart goes out to them.

I really agree a lot with this but I want to add that my ex could not make up her mind so she looked to her friends to do that for her. Another layer of putting the burdain of responsibility on others.  One of te friends had a grudge against me because I called her out on some really messed up behavior.  Another friend of hers wanted to prove to herself she was good enough by getting with me when things went sour.  These people had agendas they had no respect or idea of how to deal with these issues.  Her friends she turned to advice were former sluts and drama queens. Other people that encourage running away from oneself as if that is a spiritual endeavor.

It is really a reflection I the pwBPD insecurities and letting them spiral out of control. Anything to run away from their issues. 

[Lights843]

Mine went silent a few weeks before I left her for good. No emotion, no feedback, no discussion, nothing. I also knew, however, that she had moved on to a new guy. I couldn't even get her to respond to the separation agreement. I put it in front of her and she had no response. So difficult.

[hergestridge]

I don't know what role choice played really. I think choice is underplayed generally in all our lives.

But with my wife it often seemed to start with one of her personality shifts/identity crisis. Then she wanted to talk to about it, but she didn't do it because she knew I would be upset. So she just went around acting strange. Then she "exploded", making me out be her "oppressor". Her "silent treatment" periods always masked some kind of shame over the changes she were going through. I didn't do nothing, say nothing. Me being there, not giving enough validation was apparently unbearable.

I don't think there was so much of a choice. I don't know one close relationship which she has not ___ed up in exactly this manner. At some point she will be get at the person's throat for not being validating or encouraging enough. It's lika a paranoia reflex.