Thinking Outside the Box The Borderline Box

[Depression = 72% of members]

This is a long thought provoking read, be patient.

Hello all,

I have been reading this site for the past several months and have learned so much. Thank you. But mostly, I have learned that most of you don't know what your borderline wants at all. That's correct. You don't know what they want or need because you don't focus on the root cause of their transformation into a person with Borderline Personality Disorder.

Of course there are other big bad disorders that come with this, but the large umbrella is Borderline Personality Disorder.

Yes, they want real love, but can't accept real love, you want to give real meaningful love, but they reject it. It hurts everyone, I know this firsthand.

But what first caused this disorder ?

Trauma

Most, not all, but most, of these female borderlines were sexually abused or raped before their first period. This event, whether they choose to remember it or not, chemically altered their brains forever. Forever ! Most are now highly sexualized individuals constantly searching for their next dopamine high. That’s one of the reasons that cheat on us, repeatedly, it’s high risk behavior. And they need more of it than a normal brain. They have 3 times as many dopamine receptors as a normal brain. Alcohol is used to numb the emotional pain of the trauma, drugs work fine for a straight dopamine fix, but certain “kinds” of sex helps them get the real big dopamine rush they crave.  A normal tender lovemaking session where you tell them you love them is a turn off for them. The words "I love you" are too confusing and mean nothing, as we all know.

Instead, you need to recreate an animalistic event... .The trauma.

Raw, passionate, rough, angry, aggressive sex.

Yes... .I mean this.

Can YOU remember that time you were so pissed at your borderline or any girl for that matter, that you ___ed the ___ out of her in anger ? Grabbed her arms, legs and hair forced yourself on her and didn't stop !  And then the next day you thought to yourself, ":)AMM... .That was some hot sex yesterday. Maybe a little too aggressive, but it was hot "

And then a funny thing happens. About a month later your girl says: Hey, remember last month when you were really angry with me, that was some amazing sex we had " !

And you think to yourself: Are you kidding me, I was angry with her. That was not lovemaking, I was angry and I was insensitive and rough with her.

BINGO !

( This actually happened to me with my BPD soon after I met her )

You recreated the original traumatic event in their screwed up brain... .and it was a turn on. The flow of dopamine surged BIG !

Of course the non borderline, non rape victim just views it as some hot sex she has fantasized about and was too shy to ask you for... .All good here. Just role playing for her.

Now I am sure most of you will tell me I'm crazy, insensitive, a sicko !

But think... .All the nice stuff you AND I have used in the past didn't work, otherwise we wouldn't be reading this board.

Why is it a hooker finally meets a guy who falls for her, takes her off the street and gives her a better life. And then one day he finds that she is still out there searching for and screwing other guys ?  ( this happened to someone I know )

It has nothing to do with the new boyfriend. It's high risk behavior, it feeds the dopamine rush she craves. The house, Mercedes and designer shoes just doesn't cut it in the same way. Watch the movie Casino. Sharon Stone is this character. And it's painful to watch her reject a good man as she slides downhill with drugs, booze and sex with her old drug dealer boyfriend.

So what about me:

I did the no sex borderline dance for months with my ex BPD GF. Finally, one day I went up to her and said softly but firmly right in her ear:" what you need is a really good hard ___ing" !

At first she jumped back and slapped me. Called me rude and said to get away from her. So I moved about 5 feet away and stood there looking at her not saying a word. She then started telling me, what the hell do you know, you were never that good in bed ( all the while she was slowly inching towards me, until she was standing right next to me breathing real hard )

Well you can imagine how the rest of the afternoon went. It was hot and aggressive, all she craved and more.

It makes no sense... .But it makes total sense.

I am now seeing her only once or twice a week at most ( my choice, my control, my boundary ). The sex is hot, aggressive and I make her do and act in ways I would never do to a normal girl. But it works for my borderline.

Is this normal ? Of course not !

But we're dealing with abnormal behavior, so an abnormal approach is all that will work here.

And believe me, I loved and still love this girl, but I’ve NEVER told her that ever again. 

We've all tried saying all the goo goo emotional stuff and look where it got us. Pain pain pain !  But this is the only approach that has actually worked for me now.

Are you all now going to accuse me of teasing and controlling an emotionally disturbed individual ?  Please don’t……I’ve just taken a different approach.  If a traditional loving kind approach would have worked, I would have done that, but we all know it won’t.

FYI... .My friend has been banging his ex girlfriend for 8 months now, maybe three times a month... .as she gets ready for her wedding day with another guy !

No, I don't think he's right... .But she keeps chasing and calling him. I feel sorry for the fiancé.

Now this approach will NOT work for everyone, and maybe not for most situations. If you are in a long term marriage with 3 kids and your BPD has made your life a living hell, this is most likely not for you... .And I truly feel sorry for your pain and frustration.

But if you are just some guy dating a hot borderline and things have gone off the rails and you want her back, this just might work. It's not a long term solution, but have fun while it lasts.

You've tried all the other approaches to no avail. Short of just walking away and moving on with your life ( which is the more sane and healthy thing to do of course ) what have you got to loose trying a radical approach.  What ! she’ll ignore you and cause you more pain !  Been there….done that.

About me... .I am 50 years old, was married for 20 years and then had a GF for 6 years... .Both were non borderlines. I have no alcohol or drug addictions, I am a fairly normal person with just the right amount of issues. LOL

I wish you good luck.

[Revelations]

This is a long thought provoking read, be patient.

Hello all,

I have been reading this site for the past several months and have learned so much. Thank you. But mostly, I have learned that most of you don't know what your borderline wants at all. That's correct. You don't know what they want or need because you don't focus on the root cause of their transformation into a person with Borderline Personality Disorder.

Of course there are other big bad disorders that come with this, but the large umbrella is Borderline Personality Disorder.

Yes, they want real love, but can't accept real love, you want to give real meaningful love, but they reject it. It hurts everyone, I know this firsthand.

But what first caused this disorder ?

Trauma

Most, not all, but most, of these female borderlines were sexually abused or raped before their first period. This event, whether they choose to remember it or not, chemically altered their brains forever. Forever ! Most are now highly sexualized individuals constantly searching for their next dopamine high. That’s one of the reasons that cheat on us, repeatedly, it’s high risk behavior. And they need more of it than a normal brain. They have 3 times as many dopamine receptors as a normal brain. Alcohol is used to numb the emotional pain of the trauma, drugs work fine for a straight dopamine fix, but certain “kinds” of sex helps them get the real big dopamine rush they crave.  A normal tender lovemaking session where you tell them you love them is a turn off for them. The words "I love you" are too confusing and mean nothing, as we all know.

Instead, you need to recreate an animalistic event... .The trauma.

Raw, passionate, rough, angry, aggressive sex.

Yes... .I mean this.

Can YOU remember that time you were so pissed at your borderline or any girl for that matter, that you ___ed the ___ out of her in anger ? Grabbed her arms, legs and hair forced yourself on her and didn't stop !  And then the next day you thought to yourself, ":)AMM... .That was some hot sex yesterday. Maybe a little too aggressive, but it was hot "

And then a funny thing happens. About a month later your girl says: Hey, remember last month when you were really angry with me, that was some amazing sex we had " !

And you think to yourself: Are you kidding me, I was angry with her. That was not lovemaking, I was angry and I was insensitive and rough with her.

BINGO !

( This actually happened to me with my BPD soon after I met her )

You recreated the original traumatic event in their screwed up brain... .and it was a turn on. The flow of dopamine surged BIG !

Of course the non borderline, non rape victim just views it as some hot sex she has fantasized about and was too shy to ask you for... .All good here. Just role playing for her.

Now I am sure most of you will tell me I'm crazy, insensitive, a sicko !

But think... .All the nice stuff you AND I have used in the past didn't work, otherwise we wouldn't be reading this board.

Why is it a hooker finally meets a guy who falls for her, takes her off the street and gives her a better life. And then one day he finds that she is still out there searching for and screwing other guys ?  ( this happened to someone I know )

It has nothing to do with the new boyfriend. It's high risk behavior, it feeds the dopamine rush she craves. The house, Mercedes and designer shoes just doesn't cut it in the same way. Watch the movie Casino. Sharon Stone is this character. And it's painful to watch her reject a good man as she slides downhill with drugs, booze and sex with her old drug dealer boyfriend.

So what about me:

I did the no sex borderline dance for months with my ex BPD GF. Finally, one day I went up to her and said softly but firmly right in her ear:" what you need is a really good hard ___ing" !

At first she jumped back and slapped me. Called me rude and said to get away from her. So I moved about 5 feet away and stood there looking at her not saying a word. She then started telling me, what the hell do you know, you were never that good in bed ( all the while she was slowly inching towards me, until she was standing right next to me breathing real hard )

Well you can imagine how the rest of the afternoon went. It was hot and aggressive, all she craved and more.

It makes no sense... .But it makes total sense.

I am now seeing her only once or twice a week at most ( my choice, my control, my boundary ). The sex is hot, aggressive and I make her do and act in ways I would never do to a normal girl. But it works for my borderline.

Is this normal ? Of course not !

But we're dealing with abnormal behavior, so an abnormal approach is all that will work here.

And believe me, I loved and still love this girl, but I’ve NEVER told her that ever again. 

We've all tried saying all the goo goo emotional stuff and look where it got us. Pain pain pain !  But this is the only approach that has actually worked for me now.

Are you all now going to accuse me of teasing and controlling an emotionally disturbed individual ?  Please don’t……I’ve just taken a different approach.  If a traditional loving kind approach would have worked, I would have done that, but we all know it won’t.

FYI... .My friend has been banging his ex girlfriend for 8 months now, maybe three times a month... .as she gets ready for her wedding day with another guy !

No, I don't think he's right... .But she keeps chasing and calling him. I feel sorry for the fiancé.

Now this approach will NOT work for everyone, and maybe not for most situations. If you are in a long term marriage with 3 kids and your BPD has made your life a living hell, this is most likely not for you... .And I truly feel sorry for your pain and frustration.

But if you are just some guy dating a hot borderline and things have gone off the rails and you want her back, this just might work. It's not a long term solution, but have fun while it lasts.

You've tried all the other approaches to no avail. Short of just walking away and moving on with your life ( which is the more sane and healthy thing to do of course ) what have you got to loose trying a radical approach.  What ! she’ll ignore you and cause you more pain !  Been there….done that.

About me... .I am 50 years old, was married for 20 years and then had a GF for 6 years... .Both were non borderlines. I have no alcohol or drug addictions, I am a fairly normal person with just the right amount of issues. LOL

I wish you good luck.

[Skip]

I am going to soon post a radical approach that I have found working for me.

That you have  

Instead, you need to recreate an animalistic event... .The trauma.

Raw, passionate, rough, angry, aggressive sex.

Yes... .I mean this.

Your thought is that this is the answer to adult survivors of childhood sexual assault?

Now this approach will NOT work for everyone, and maybe not for most situations. If you are in a long term marriage with 3 kids and your BPD has made your life a living hell, this is most likely not for you... .And I truly feel sorry for your pain and frustration.

But if you are just some guy dating a hot borderline and things have gone off the rails and you want her back, this just might work. It's not a long term solution, but have fun while it lasts.

Can you tell us more about your relationship - how you got to this point?

[Harri]

Hi Revelations.  I do not see your approach as novel at all.  Other than a few details   it seems like more of the same old way to deal with it:  get angry, devalue and become someone you do not recognize and do not really want to know all the while doing some serious damage.

I guess we all define success differently.

Edited to add:  sorry Skip, we cross posted.

[LettingGo14]

Allow me to post an alternative "radical" approach:

First, do no harm.

I respect your right to post, and I acknowledge your disclaimers (with the uncertainty of whether they are said with tongue in cheek).  Even if what you write is satirical, I think you realize it's completely offensive and degrading, particularly to women.

You can answer Skip's questions if you want, but your "radical" approach provoked me to provide my own "radical" approach:  :)o not abuse anyone. Ever. Period.  

Added:  somebody told me once that "hurt people hurt people."   

I got the ___ kicked out of me by my relationship.   But, if I've learned one thing -- and one thing only -- it's that the pain woke me the f--- up.  And it made me more compassionate than I ever imagined possible.

[hergestridge]

I have never been interested in a relationship like that. It sounds like a nightmare.

I know people who have had that kind of relationship and it's nothing it's envy. Frankly it's something I see as sad and unpleasant.

Good it works for you though! 

[Mr Hollande]

The idea isn't offensive to me personally but I fail to see the benefits of playing along with the BPD's insanity. It's not just a case of potentially doing harm to them but also inflicting it on yourself by re-enacting things you're not happy or comfortable with. What good could ever come from that?

[Blimblam]

Yeah I believe you that it works.

Here is the thing you have to have a certain amount of emotional detache meant to achieve this. It ultimately feeds back into the cycle if abuse and violence.  With my first borderline ex I did that dance for about 8 months.  I was angry with her that's how we handled things.  Ultimately it never got me any closer to resolving any of my own core issues but it kept my ex in my life. It was violent towards myself though in life I sort of morphed into a different person for a while.  I eventually wanted more then got hurt once again and called it quits. 

I had contemplated doing that with my recent ex but I just loved her too much.  The bond was too deep I felt everything she ran away from. 

[Revelations]

Thank you for your respectful replies.

But I think you miss my point here.

First. I mean no disrespect towards women. A sexual relationship that includes role playing is healthy as long as BOTH parties agree to the roles. And a borderline CAN agree and disagree.

What I am proposing is also not degrading or damaging. The damage has already been done years ago. And it does not perpetuate the damage.

I did not cause it

I cannot control it

I can't cure it.

This posting is genuine as to my comments towards those who are suffering, not tongue and cheek. I understand this pain.

You have posters here who are only asking for advice on how to make some reconnection with their now ex BPD GF. Most of the advice given to them is for them to walk away and move on. And while this may be the correct advice to take, it's not what the poster wants right now. They still want to try, and they're willing to try whatever it takes.

A year ago, when my borderline first told me that the sexual episode we had had a month earlier was hot. It almost knocked me over.

That was not how I think... .But it is how SHE thinks.

I am just adjusting my behavior to suit what SHE finds exciting.

I have unsolicited texts from my borderline in the distant past with her telling me very specifically what she wanted me to do to her sexually. When I replied in kind, she responded with " you really know how to get me w-t ".  FYI….I NEVER did the things she asked me to do.  It was not I wanted at the time.

This was well before I ever knew she had BPD. I just thought she was a sexually aware girl who knew what she wanted.

And in fact ... .She does.

Do I feel bad about what I am doing ? No

In fact what am I doing ?

I am giving her an experience that she herself wants and craves. I am continuing to give myself the rush I get from her, that I want and crave.

Sick, degrading, disrespectful... .No

Unhealthy for me in the long run... .Yes

I now have better times with her then in many, many months. She does not rage at me nearly anywhere as much as before. I set boundaries and she sees my firm stance. I now have something that she wants, the dopamine rush.

It this a healthy perfect relationship... .No

But neither was the previous one with her, for both of us.

Please don't judge me too much until you understand that I too have been hurt. But I have found an approach that is not disrespectful, not degrading, not damaging. But is what we both want for now... .and works for us both.

Thx

Reply to recent post:

The ONLY way I could do this is that I have detached myself from her and her disorder.

She acts the way she acts because she has a serious personality disorder.

Plain and simple.

This clear thinking has helped me remove any of my anger towards her. That’s right, I am NOT angry with her at all.

She does what she does because she can’t help herself. It was never personal towards me. That said, my actions towards her now are not personal attacks as well.

Remember……….I love this person.  YES….love this person.

And please don’t say…how can you do this to someone you love ?

But she is not a whole person, as we know a person to be.  She is missing the basic components of a fully developed human being.

That’s not a derogatory sentence……it’s the truth.  And it helps me to cope every day that I can’t have a real relationship with her.

Thank you for listening and hopefully respecting my thoughts

[Mr Hollande]

It was never personal towards me.

Remember……….I love this person.  YES….love this person.

I disagree. What she did was very personal and I took it that way. She knew the reaction she was looking for and she went hell for leather. Maybe you love yours, I think mine is beyond vile. She's a persistent turd I'm trying to scrape off my shoe. Whatever emotionally retarded outlet she may be looking for to soothe her emotionally retarded soul be it violence, sex, a combination thereof or even love she aint getting it from me.

Reminds me of that ancient joke about the masochist and the sadist. The masochist says to the sadist "hit me" and the sadist replies "no". So whatever it is she may possibly want from me at some stage it's a no from me. No to everything. Just go away.

[Skip]

Revelation,

I don't want to offend a new member, but we can't host this advisory.  There are members on this board that are in a great deal of pain and this is not an option or desirable to most - this is the Leaving Board- members here are trying to detach, not hook up.

Please open a thread to talk about yourself on "Undecided" or "Staying", and share with us the questions or decisions you are facing. Sometimes friends with benefits is enough - we get that. I assume you do not really mean recreate trauma.



Skip