A history of unstable relationships?

[Suspicious1]

One of the things that haunts me a little with my exBPDbf is the fact that, before me, he managed to sustain a 20 year relationship. He says his ex wife had NPD, which could be projection but it seems most people who knew her agreed with the opinion. He said she was abusive to him, so how awful must I have been if he couldn't stay with me for more than a few months at a time?

On the other hand I do know that our 18 month relationship was the second longest he'd ever had, and that perhaps hints at some instability in his earlier life. I know that he ran off with a married woman when he was 17, and that he was quite promiscuous in his younger years. When he met his wife, he was 22 and had been selling drugs and counterfeit money, so his life was quite violent and antisocial. She became accidentally pregnant a few months before they were married, and it didn't sound like it was a happy marriage - they didn't appear to get on well and he wanted to leave but she wanted him to stay for the children, so they decided to have an open marriage. He said he had about 15 or 20 casual partners while they were married.

But still - 20 years. Yet he split me black every three months. I can't work out if he fits with the "unstable relationships" pattern or not

[rg1976]

One thing to think about here isn't the length of time they were together: It was an open relationship which means she may have been indifferent toward him and simply trying to do the right thing for the child? (Having both parents in the child's life living under the same roof, etc?)

There may have been patterns of him painting her black, but if she were stable enough and ambivalent enough, he could have used her as a "home base"?

And then the 15 to 20 casual partners: who's to say how stable those relationships were?

If some of the BPD traits are there, it doesn't mean outright BPD, but, for your own healing does it really matter?

You know that there were things in the relationship that were not right. Yet, other things were good or you wouldn't have ever been involved in the relationship at all.

I think at first we come to know the behavior of the other is not right, so we seek answers about what exactly is wrong with the other, but all of the answers that heal us come from self knowledge and are found by seeking to know ourselves, what we wanted in the relationship and why we didn't leave sooner or have a hard time with the loss of the toxic relationship.

I wish you peace and healing in finding those answers for yourself. I'm still seeking mine!

Best,

rg

[OutOfEgypt]

Was he diagnosed?

What about family and friend relationships? My ex has absolutely zero long-term functional friendship or family relationship.

Yet my ex was with me for 14 years.  Could one argue that she is somehow "normal" because I stayed so long?  Heck no.

Maybe what made his relationship to his NPD wife so great is that there was zero chance of real connection.  So in that sense it was much less triggering.

[Pets]

Maybe what made his relationship to his NPD wife so great is that there was zero chance of real connection.  So in that sense it was much less triggering.

I think that can be quite common.  My exbf when he broke up with me said that in previous relationships, he was able to tolerate a lot of uncertainty and drama.  It didn't make sense to me at the time that he was ending something which wasn't "broken" as it were.

I have come to understand that the biggest enemy in our r/s was growing intimacy.  He couldn't tolerate the stability of that and fled.  It was too scary, too threatening, far too much of a trigger, set off a chain of events that sadly was unstoppable.

So no, I don't think length of time of a relationship is that much of an indicator of healthy functioning (or otherwise!) of the relationship.

[missblue]

I got caught up a bit on this with mine on if he fit... .they were married 14 years.

But, I ended up having some communication with his ex... .and she started telling me how he treats close friends. That he claims he wants them so much, and then when they are close to him, he shoves them away with absurd reasons that never make sense.

She didn't have any info on BPD, so she framed it entirely differently than I do currently... .seeing him as being intentionally deceptive and manipulative and not having really wanted them in the first place... .but it so matched what it sounded like I normally would have seen in relationships enough to verify that one for me.

Why did he do it with friends getting close and not with her? I had no clue... .but then, as others have said here, it sort of makes sense that maybe she never actually got close enough to him emotionally to be considered a threat enough to need to be pushed away.

[pieceofme]

my ex told me horror stories about his ex (whom i suspect may have BPD or some sort of PD herself) and their relationship. it was full of drama and very tumultuous... .the opposite of our relationship. i am very calm and stable; all of my ex's friends and family told him i was good for him.

I have come to understand that the biggest enemy in our r/s was growing intimacy.  He couldn't tolerate the stability of that and fled.  It was too scary, too threatening, far too much of a trigger, set off a chain of events that sadly was unstoppable.

i believe this was the case of my relationship, too. looking back, i can see how the growing intimacy engulfed him and led him to sabotage everything. i still believe we had a stable relationship (stability provided by me), aside from his destructive behavior.

[Pets]

my ex told me horror stories about his ex (whom i suspect may have BPD or some sort of PD herself) and their relationship. it was full of drama and very tumultuous... .the opposite of our relationship. i am very calm and stable; all of my ex's friends and family told him i was good for him.

Sounds a lot like me own story.  My ex had a lot of similar comments from his friends; some said that I was the first "normal", level-headed person he had chosen to be with.  They all really liked me, compared to his other exs.  But in a way, that sometimes makes it worse for me.  He doesn't seem to value those qualities in a r/s, but would rather have the drama than something calm and settled, even though he said that that's what he wanted.  He sabotaged everything we had because it made him anxious, and maybe because he felt it was too good to be true or last?  Our r/s was calm and stable, too.  He said it made him feel very safe, but then I think that became a threat.

We are NC at the moment.  I still hope that one day, once I've detached more emotionally and healed my own wounds, I can be there as a stable friend for him, if that's what will be helpful.  But maybe he'll even find that too much. 

[Suspicious1]

Thanks all - it does help it all settle into place.

He wasn't officially diagnosed, but when I was with him at his psych appointments (he asked me to accompany him) that was the direction they were going in, and my own psych said the same thing of him. He also strongly identified with the traits in himself. I left before he got full diagnosis.

It does seem that his ex wife was immune to his idealisation. He said he would often love bomb her (not his words, but his description was of love-bombing) and said she'd just essentially ignore him. He said she was a narcissist, and concluded she just took all the idealisation as her due. I wonder if she was just so used to the patterns that she stopped paying attention. On the other hand, he said that she barely paid him any attention - never a compliment etc, so perhaps indeed he never felt engulfed by her. It sounded as if he was always just trying to please her or deflect her rages.

Like you, Pets, his family were very positive about him being with me. His brother's (very straight-talking) partner said to him "try not to mess THIS one up", by which I think he meant "don't paint her black" - he had a history of cutting members of his family off  (several of his brothers and his children) so this was expected behaviour from him. He didn't have any *close* friends, but according to his ex he had friends who he'd get VERY close (too close for her comfort) and then it would all drift apart.

It makes sense now when I see it more in the context of engulfment. I guess in order to have made the relationship succeed I would have had to have been aloof and slightly unobtainable. That's not me at all - I'm a very affectionate type and I love my other half to know how great I think they are. It's all yet another reason for us not to be together

[pieceofme]

They all really liked me, compared to his other exs.  But in a way, that sometimes makes it worse for me.  He doesn't seem to value those qualities in a r/s, but would rather have the drama than something calm and settled, even though he said that that's what he wanted.  He sabotaged everything we had because it made him anxious, and maybe because he felt it was too good to be true or last?  Our r/s was calm and stable, too.  He said it made him feel very safe, but then I think that became a threat.

i had the exact same experience. he said our calm, settled relationship was what he wanted, but his actions proved otherwise. between his cheating and one particularly horrible rage, he destroyed our plans to relocate and move in together. i'm still not sure HE knows why he did that.

suspicious1, my ex isn't diagnosed either, but he displays all the hallmark BPD behaviors. (when i'm feeling uncertain, i remind myself that i ended up on this board for a reason.) my ex doesn't have close friends either. the people he is closest to, he treats horribly. he often told me of conversations he would have with his "friends," and i would cringe at the things he said he said.

i digress... .

It makes sense now when I see it more in the context of engulfment. I guess in order to have made the relationship succeed I would have had to have been aloof and slightly unobtainable. That's not me at all - I'm a very affectionate type and I love my other half to know how great I think they are. It's all yet another reason for us not to be together

like you, i am very affectionate and wanted him to feel loved and safe and taken care of. although he often made me feel like it wasn't enough, now i think maybe i was TOO much.

[Pets]

It makes sense now when I see it more in the context of engulfment. I guess in order to have made the relationship succeed I would have had to have been aloof and slightly unobtainable. That's not me at all - I'm a very affectionate type and I love my other half to know how great I think they are. It's all yet another reason for us not to be together

I'm with you on that one.  It's no good trying to be something that we are not.  But then I do think it is very hard to build a proper intimate relationship if you are having to be aloof and slightly unobtainable.  I certainly was quite independent, sometimes wanted my own space and do my own thing, too, but then that can also be a trigger!  Fear of abandonment! 

Sometimes it feels like I just couldn't win, whatever I would have tried... .

[antjs]

one of the diagnostic criteria - stormy interpersonal relationships. you just need five out of nine for a diagnosis but this one is one of the hallmarks of BPD. mine had the 9 criteria  and about the stormy relationships... .3 ex-fiancees, 1 ex-husband, 2 abortions, 3 ex-bfs and she is 29. painted her parents black, escaped her country as a punishment to her parents and living on tourist visas between two countries. how did i accept to be with her ? go figure

[pieceofme]

I certainly was quite independent, sometimes wanted my own space and do my own thing, too, but then that can also be a trigger!  Fear of abandonment! 

Sometimes it feels like I just couldn't win, whatever I would have tried... .

i would be passive-aggressively "punished" if i wanted to sleep in my own bed for one night.

it's a lose-lose either way.

[Suspicious1]

Oh, I got punished because I didn't want him to move in with me and I didn't want to marry him and have babies. At least not until we could sustain a relationship for longer than three months at a time. It really is lose-lose isn't it - I engulfed him when I was too affectionate/intimate/whatever, but annoyed him when consequently I wouldn't "prove" I was committed.

[pieceofme]

It really is lose-lose isn't it - I engulfed him when I was too affectionate/intimate/whatever, but annoyed him when consequently I wouldn't "prove" I was committed.

AMEN TO THAT!

[Caredverymuch]

Thanks all - it does help it all settle into place.

He wasn't officially diagnosed, but when I was with him at his psych appointments (he asked me to accompany him) that was the direction they were going in, and my own psych said the same thing of him. He also strongly identified with the traits in himself. I left before he got full diagnosis.

It does seem that his ex wife was immune to his idealisation. He said he would often love bomb her (not his words, but his description was of love-bombing) and said she'd just essentially ignore him. He said she was a narcissist, and concluded she just took all the idealisation as her due. I wonder if she was just so used to the patterns that she stopped paying attention. On the other hand, he said that she barely paid him any attention - never a compliment etc, so perhaps indeed he never felt engulfed by her. It sounded as if he was always just trying to please her or deflect her rages.

Like you, Pets, his family were very positive about him being with me. His brother's (very straight-talking) partner said to him "try not to mess THIS one up", by which I think he meant "don't paint her black" - he had a history of cutting members of his family off  (several of his brothers and his children) so this was expected behaviour from him. He didn't have any *close* friends, but according to his ex he had friends who he'd get VERY close (too close for her comfort) and then it would all drift apart.

It makes sense now when I see it more in the context of engulfment. I guess in order to have made the relationship succeed I would have had to have been aloof and slightly unobtainable. That's not me at all - I'm a very affectionate type and I love my other half to know how great I think they are. It's all yet another reason for us not to be together

To make the r/s "succeed" you would have to also be pNPD.  These two d/o partner very well in their own toxic dance.  As others have said here, both d/o bring their own underlying issues that avoid a real intimate connection, yet provide a dysfunctional form of safety. One clings, one controls. Both needs are met that way. There's really good information here on this site on this type of r/s. Member 2010 has provided good insight to this and I would suggest you read those posts to fully understand this dynamic.

I understand your statement in which you struggle with the fact he stayed in that marriage for 20 yrs but left your r/s abruptly.  My situation was quite similar.  I was a calm, safe presence to my expBPD. Something he said he never had. I believe that. Which is why the engulfment and intimacy allowed his d/o to come full bloom in our r/s and I was the recipient of all the stuff the rest of us were here.

His NPD partner does not produce these triggers, therefore it is a safe home base. And his fear of abandonment stays somewhat in check with his constant mirroring to her, hoping to obtain that unconditional love but never quite getting it.  Although he wants that calm, unconditional fully loving r/s, the dramatic dynamic of the other ultimately feels safer and more predictable.

Additionally, your ex like mine does indeed leave his partner, just in different ways. An open marriage, etc.  That's certainly not a stable committed situation. Regardless of wearing the ring. 

[Suspicious1]

As always, thank you caredverymuch - always a good insight . It does really help to learn these things. It's a bit like finishing a jig-saw.

[Caredverymuch]

As always, thank you caredverymuch - always a good insight . It does really help to learn these things. It's a bit like finishing a jig-saw.

You're welcome suspicious1. I appreciate all I learn here from so many, including you.

The BPD/non r/s really is a no win situation as you stated above. They will continue to up the ante no matter what we do. Engulf, want space, etc. there will always be a need for the non to continue to " prove" themselves.  They dont call these r/s crazy making for no reason.

The BPD/NPD r/s lacks any risk of that real intimate connection.  The disorder stays somewhat in check bc of this. 

When I would ask myself why my expBPD could return to his NPD ex instead of staying in our r/s, I would then ask myself this:  would I really want to live that way?  My answer is no.

[hergestridge]

My relationship with my BPDW lasted 20 years. I think the length of the relationship was down to me putting almost no preassure or demands on her. That was not good for me, and of course it didn't work out in the long run. When I demanded to be treated like a normal person and have a normal life (socially and professionally), it all took and turn for the worse.