Perspectives on Change.

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hi All,

Looking for some different personal perspectives here on the changes you have made and how your finding implementing them.  

I have been going through a lot with everything sort of being thrown at me at once in the last few months.  Be it work with a new job, escalating to a solicitor with our son, intervention order coming along, selling the house.  Basically I decided to be 'pro-active' with a whole heap of different things and be a bit goal oriented with decisions as well.  Reading back through it all I sort of started to pick apart my role in decisions and how I bought negativity in different ways to the relationship and also to myself with choices I made previously and I am still tempted at times to revert to this pattern now.  

The whole weak boundarys, not standing up for your own needs or voicing my opinion or feelings at any point really.  I've done this constantly throughout life as well.  There tends to be a theme in a lot of the reading that I have done with essentially we are responsible for our own actions and how we choose to behave and act in life.  

For me at the moment I've got a couple things I am trying to do every day in every way that I relate to people.  It is hard and I find myself exhausted at the end of some days, changing how I act towards others and how I respect my own needs has been fairly good as a whole though.  

Things I am trying to do every day in every interaction with people:

- 51/49.  Always place myself just a little ahead of others.  Give my opinion, feelings more weight than the person I'm dealing with.  

- Trying to activly listen and validate in all conversations.  

- Walking away from unhealthy situations in a healthy manner.  

I find doing these three things I am as I said above, exhausted at times.  Focusing just on that one conversation, validating and then knowing when I am not happy talking to someone.  Putting my own need to not be in a situation above someone elses need to have me listen to them.  

It sounds selfish however I have so far managed to disengage from a few people that I just think now, not worth my time and effort as you dont put any in.  I find doing these three things along with working through and naming my feelings instead of accomodating others feelings and respecting my self more has had a huge impact on how I am relating to people and coping with different situations.  

First day I did this, I had to have a afternoon nap.  I was dead tyred.  This lasted for a few weeks to carying degrees as I was constantly mentally alert.  I'm about a month and a half into trying to do it constantly and it is getting a bit less exhausting, a bit more natural however caught myself slipping for a bit today had to make an effort to go back and start again concentrate on those things i mentioned above.  

What changes have you made that you can sort of relate to with this, it is a unnatural thing for me to do so it is a hard change to keep.  However I am getting happier gradually with making these choices.  I am getting less anxious about standing up for myself and my beleifs.  

Interested to know what others have done to improve their 'self care' sort of attitude towards themselves.  


AJJ.  

[Aussie JJ]

Hi All,

Looking for some different personal perspectives here on the changes you have made and how your finding implementing them.  

I have been going through a lot with everything sort of being thrown at me at once in the last few months.  Be it work with a new job, escalating to a solicitor with our son, intervention order coming along, selling the house.  Basically I decided to be 'pro-active' with a whole heap of different things and be a bit goal oriented with decisions as well.  Reading back through it all I sort of started to pick apart my role in decisions and how I bought negativity in different ways to the relationship and also to myself with choices I made previously and I am still tempted at times to revert to this pattern now.  

The whole weak boundarys, not standing up for your own needs or voicing my opinion or feelings at any point really.  I've done this constantly throughout life as well.  There tends to be a theme in a lot of the reading that I have done with essentially we are responsible for our own actions and how we choose to behave and act in life.  

For me at the moment I've got a couple things I am trying to do every day in every way that I relate to people.  It is hard and I find myself exhausted at the end of some days, changing how I act towards others and how I respect my own needs has been fairly good as a whole though.  

Things I am trying to do every day in every interaction with people:

- 51/49.  Always place myself just a little ahead of others.  Give my opinion, feelings more weight than the person I'm dealing with.  

- Trying to activly listen and validate in all conversations.  

- Walking away from unhealthy situations in a healthy manner.  

I find doing these three things I am as I said above, exhausted at times.  Focusing just on that one conversation, validating and then knowing when I am not happy talking to someone.  Putting my own need to not be in a situation above someone elses need to have me listen to them.  

It sounds selfish however I have so far managed to disengage from a few people that I just think now, not worth my time and effort as you dont put any in.  I find doing these three things along with working through and naming my feelings instead of accomodating others feelings and respecting my self more has had a huge impact on how I am relating to people and coping with different situations.  

First day I did this, I had to have a afternoon nap.  I was dead tyred.  This lasted for a few weeks to carying degrees as I was constantly mentally alert.  I'm about a month and a half into trying to do it constantly and it is getting a bit less exhausting, a bit more natural however caught myself slipping for a bit today had to make an effort to go back and start again concentrate on those things i mentioned above.  

What changes have you made that you can sort of relate to with this, it is a unnatural thing for me to do so it is a hard change to keep.  However I am getting happier gradually with making these choices.  I am getting less anxious about standing up for myself and my beleifs.  

Interested to know what others have done to improve their 'self care' sort of attitude towards themselves.  


AJJ.  

[Pingo]

I have been saying how I feel.  My usual MO is to keep things to myself if there is a chance that a) I will embarrass myself b) I might offend someone c) I might appear crazy or over reacting.  I've been trying to get past these concerns and take the risk.  And then feel the intense emotions when I actually do get embarrassed or offend someone or realise I have over reacted.  I've been cut off by my best friend for taking this risk so it has been hard but I'm keeping at it. 

I've become conscious of my thoughts vs my feelings and see how one leads to the other.  I've tried to become more mindful but it is an uphill journey.

[Ziggiddy]

Great thread AJJ.

I am glad to hear you have made and stuck with 'visible' concrete plans - your growth is evident.

I especially liked the 49/51 point.

I am trying to listen to myself as a 'normal' person might and respond with better voices to myself.

Like instead of quickly having a shot at myself try and think of other ways to respond to myslef.

Whoah. that sounds spacey.

I'll give an eg: the other day I was thinking about an incident with a friend who didn't listen to me at all well.

I thought "She didn't listen to me and it made me feel sad and small like what I was saying wasn't worth listening to. She probably is bored with me and my sad tales and wants some time away etc etc"

The next thing I hear myself saying "Well you talk SO much. What about the time you ... ." tapered off and I stopped walking. Stopped thinking and just kind of yelled in my head "Hey! What are you looking at me for? i'll deal with this NEXT. Right now i'm dealing with this first thing!"

it was a great moment. I thought I had learned it. Then the VERY same day it happened again!

Clearing away my kids toys and deciding to move some of them on to charity I thought "Well what about YOUR stuff? you have puh-lenty of things that need sorting. i don't see you giving THEM away. Why do you get to keep YOUR stuff but the kids don't get to keep theirs?"

TWANG! i GOT it! It was my MOTHER'S voice. looking to make me feel bad/wrong for something to push against.

So i think i will keep in mind the 49/51 thing. A must-have tool for dealing with the after effects of BPD.

It sounds selfish however I have so far managed to disengage from a few people that I just think now, not worth my time and effort as you dont put any in.  I find doing these three things along with working through and naming my feelings instead of accomodating others feelings and respecting my self more has had a huge impact on how I am relating to people and coping with different situations. 

AJJ. 

Doesn't sound unhealthy to me at all. At ALL. Sounds like you are becoming more you by identifying what YOU want not what you think others want you to do.

Well done!

[Aussie JJ]

It's interesting Ziggy,

I find it uncomfortable not facilitating people.  I'm so used to it.  Dont know if it's co-depoendant, passive whatever label you want to place on the behaviour.  It has been in effect my whole life.  Very uncomfortable not worrying about others problems and trying to solve them.  I then find myself looking at my problems that I now have time for going, I have so much time, how do I fix this properly now. 

Also when you get GENUINE requests.  It's like yes, this is healthy for me to be involved, this person doesn't use and abuse, they appreciate my assistance.  I'll help out. 

The thought patterns I find hardest for me to identify myself.  Tryign to see how I am thinking and what is driving my action.s  You can only be so self aware.  Dont know if that makes sense. 


AJJ. 

[Ziggiddy]

Actually it DOES make sense, AJ.

If part of your identity is helping then it can feel very uncomfortable to not do it. Choosing where to put your help is key and you have decided to discern better. This will, I imagine have the natural effect of some people drawing away from you as they sense you are no longer a resource and another type of person drawing toward you; most likely people whose self respect is equal to your own.

It's also part and parcel of being associated with BPD that you will second guess yourself - you are defining new realities for yourself without the benefit of a long term sense of self that others may operate from.

I take into account that it is human and kind to help. I also try and take into account the very real benefits that people get from helping themselves. healthy people WANT to help themselves as they reap the credit and enjoyment of their own independence.

Dependent people ... well aren't you helping them by letting them learn to help/facilitate themselves? How much responsibility do you take for how they feel about you contingent on your helping THEM?

it may sound glib but it might be worthwhile checking yourself to see if you really feel like helping in a particular situation. If you don't want to help, but feel you should then is that a compulsion?

Something I have learned very lately is that as I withdraw from helping my pwBPD she becomes surprisingly efficient at finding alternative resources. The guilt that comes with saying 'no' becomes less as I start to see that I matter less in her equation than i thought I did. That the tears and recriminating looks are becoming less severe and more temporary.

What surprised me was how sad I felt that I wasn't as useful as I had previously thought. A lot of my identity is wrapped up in feeling efficient and capable and my ability to prove this to myself comes out most visibly in helping.

Sometimes I wonder if people let me help them as a favour to me rather than because they need what I am offering! humans hey?

[Aussie JJ]

I went through a phase and still do at times looking at my behaviours and asking all of those questions based upon the different reading I have done trying to see if it is me or others I know. 

Essentially, I dont understand this however my psychologist has told me that if I want to find something wrong I will.  All of us can identify with aspects of these disorders at some stage in our lives or with some of our actions.  If it is life long that is what makes the problem a PD problem. 

I found with work initially I thought I was very very narc in how I manage my personal performance and that of those around me with my expectations.  Then upon looking a bit deeper how I have managed staff previously I still have those codependant sort of white knight traits where I make excussses and do the work to pull people up to my standard when they are unwilling to do so themselves.  Or I have made up excusses and covered for staff when they have made mistakes to save them from the repurcussions.  I expect perfection from myself and dont tolerate a job being 1/2 done.  I havent walked away when its getting hard until the end when I can see there have been no choice other than to walk away.  Either way when it is getting hard I buckle down (like the BPD relationship) and try to work through it. 

I started off going, I have these behaviours, I am here on the specrum this is wrong with me.  In the end after looking at it deeper and then all of the other factors I sort of found I was saving people constantly in all aspects of life. 

At no stage was I concentrating on myself.  How un-narc like... .

They are all titles co-dependancy and what not.  I think the hardest thing to determine and quantify is how I relate to myself, what is my sense of self? 

If I asked my exBPD this, I know its the question that cant be answered, she relates to others sense of self, lives off that.  re discovering mine and going, hey, I dont have to put up with this it isnt what I am about, isnt healthy for me.  Feels wierd... .

Us silly humans I agree with this 100 %!

[sheepdog]

Aussie JJ, I loved your original post.  I need to make a list like this.