Older sister with uBPD - how to move forward

[Depression = 72% of members]

I'm 5 1/2 years younger than my older sister, L. When I was 3 and she was 8, my biological father died (it was her stepfather, as her bio dad was never in the picture). Though I don't remember him at all, it definitely affected L, and sh'es grown up with a massive fear of death (bordering on obsession) and also some clear fears of abandonment. My mom raised us, and I remember a happy childhood, with lots of fun and love. My sister L was mean at times, but not in an unusual way. I do remember often feeling like I was "annoying", because she called me this a lot. She was nice much of the time. I observed from early on, however, that she was the most powerful member of our family-the leader, almost. My unassertive, lax, and loving mother was always under her thumb. L's feelings and words were very domineering throughout our lives. That got worse for sure when she became a teenager. L wanted to drink and my mom let her, which was prob a mistake as I believe she has some alcohol abuse issues. Drinking could often end in anger with her and I remember some big fights between her and her boyfriend when she was 17 or so and I was 12. I'm not sure why exactly, but I know I've always been a bit scared of my sister. The feeling went away when she was being 'nice' and I felt I could trust her, but it would quickly return if she became angry.

She's extremely smart and insightful and can use words expertly to her advantage, like a powerful weapon. Fighting with her one feels cornered, belittled, and confused (suddenly you forget all of your logic and defenses and you start to feel like you're at fault or there's something wrong with you). She called me "oversensitive" a lot as a child.

In my early 20's she decided she wanted us to be "best friends", something she always was keen on then throughout the next several years. She'd say things like: "I'm glad we're close now, because I only started liking you last year." Little digs like that which were hurtful. She often made me feel as though my decision making skills were lacking and that I made dumb decisions. When I was deciding where to go to college she always gave me her input and mocked my choices. It was always very confusing to me and I felt like my self-worth and my confidence was constantly being undermined.

As we got closer when I was 20, we would hang out and have fun. Often she would drink too much and I'd try and go to bed early when that happened. I would drink with her too, and sometimes a little too much, but it was nothing like her drinking. She would then call our mom the next day and mention how "drunk" I'd been! My mom and I were close (especially because our personalities and temperaments are very similar and L has always resented that). L would tell my mom secrets I'd told her because she wanted to cause a rift between us, I guess. She liked to alarm my mom. One time I told my new "best friend" L that I had kissed my friend (a girl) on a dare. L then told my mom the next day to watch out because I had "lesbian tendencies". I started realising L wanted to be close but would constantly betray my trust. This kind of thing happened numerous times over the years. She always thought it was no big deal, and would call me "oversensitive". She also told me it was weird to not tell my mom these secrets, and claimed SHE told my mom all of her own secrets. I love my mom, but I believe there are some things she doesn't need to know or that would be weird to discuss with a parent.

Things were good and bad off and on for several years. At one point I moved to her same city and we became close. Our grandfather passed away in early 2012, and this is when things got worse. L's drinking definitely increased, and she'd frequently stay up until all hours. If she invited you over, you'd always be up until 3am or later, drinking a bit, her drinking a LOT, and inevitably, the conversations would turn to deep topics, ESPECIALLY death. It was not pleasant to be there. I'd often make excuses not to come over. It was a hard time. L, still controlling as always, would never come over to my apartment. I always had to go to hers. If her husband had to go out of town for one night, she'd text me and say that I HAD to come over and sleep over (she was fearful of being alone). If I couldn't, she'd get angry at me and accuse me of not being there for her. Or, she'd belittle me and tell me whatever previous plans I had were stupid and lame. She hated if I had plans that weren't all about her. If I went out with work friends she'd criticise me for going to a "disgusting bar" with "ridiculous, gross work friends." Just lots of little insults, chipping away.

I worked as a waitress once. She came in sometimes to eat and while it was fun to wait on her, she would never tip me. She'd write little pieces of "advice" on the tip line. I was never allowed to complain about this, but it was understood that she was being "funny" and this was just the way things were done with her. It was irksome. She always felt she had special priveleges and anyone disagreeing with her was ridiculous, oversensitive, and just plain wrong.

One day, she said she was going to come to my work for dinner. She said, "and you'll give me free wine, of course." I politely said, no I couldn't do that. That was illegal and it was a new job where I was not even that comfortable yet. I didn't want to lose my job. She kept joking about it and insisting I give her free stuff, even saying she'd complain to the management about me just to get free stuff. She said all this under the guise of joking, but I was firm and said I couldn't do that. She got really angry and told me, as usual, that I was ridiculous, and that every server she knows gives her free things. She acted like I was insane for saying no and that I was some overcautious baby. IT was so angering to me.

The problem was, I never set boundaries or stood up for myself when the little things happened, so when big things happened, one day I finally snapped and it was bad. It's been a few years since our big blowout so I almost don't even remember some of the circumstances. I know I played some part in the matter and am at fault for the poor way I handled it, but I could never explain that to L. Suffice it to say, I never had a chance to defend myself afterwards. I was so angry and I wrote a long, drawn out letter to L. I also included my family on the email, which was the biggest mistake, but she had just sent an email to the whole family saying we needed to heal and to speak up if there were problems. So I was doing just that. My email was truthful, but there were a few moments where I did say things that were not very nice. I do feel bad about that.

L flew into a rage and hurled insult after insult my way. There's no way to approach her with logic. If you defend yourself in a fight or explain your reasons for doing this or that she turns you into a monster and always paints herself as the victim. During that fighting period, she said some awful things about my life and my relationship, and I felt protective of that, so I blocked her on social media. I didn't want her knowing about my life or attacking it. She told me I was a weak, selfish, and horrible person and that the only time I was ever a good person was when I lived with her briefly. She told me she wished she never knew me and didn't care to ever speak to me again. She told me I hurt her more than anyone ever has or ever could. She called me a b___ and said f$%# you--actually even before the letter.

It all blew up into a huge thing and there was really no going back. For several months after I'd receive really cruel texts and emails, usually in the middle of the night when I assume she'd been drinking. Everything she said was stuff you would never say to a sister. I know I instigated it with my letter, but her responses were so much worse.

A few months later I reached out simply to wish her and her husband a happy anniversary. I said I loved them and hoped to see them at the holidays. L responded: You're a horrible person and I wish I never knew you. Don't ever contact us again.

Since then, I haven't. It's been almost 3 years. My mom is still in touch with L and their relationship is rocky. Right now, it's awful again. MY mom was visiting my sister two weeks ago, and while my mom was asleep, L went into my mom's phone and read all of the private Facebook messages between me and my mom. Unfortunately there were some unfriendly convos between my mom and I about L. My mom feels guilty, feels like a mother should never talk behind a daughter's back, but I think she has some anger and resentment she was letting out. And the two of us are the only two who understand the situation with L the way we do. We're the only people we can talk to. We were making fun of L a little bit, of her narcissistic photos on Fb where she uses family and friends as "props", and just saying some other not great stuff. Well, L was soo upset when she found these. Obviously she was hurt and angry. I feel bad, as I'd never want to hurt her intentionally, especially about such petty things that don't matter, but at the same time, I'm angry that she invaded our privacy. I would never have said those things unless it was to my mom and I thought it was a safe space. Plus, obviously I don't think kindly toward my sister much these days. Even though we don't talk, she still has the same fights and bad times with my mom, so I hate to see my mom suffer.

Anyway, my sister wrote me a surprise email just two days ago. It was sent at 2 am, as usual. She brought up all the old past problems and reiterated how much she was hurt by them and what an awful untrustworthy person I am. She mentioned the recent conversation as well. She ended the conversation by saying this further 'solidifies how she never wishes to speak to me again.' It's weird she even wrote it if she wants me to not respond? I cried for hours after reading it. I can't emphasize enough the power she seems to have and how deeply her words affect. She still scares me.

Well, I don't know what to do to move forward. I don't think anything would make this better short of contacting L and assuming blame for the ENTIRE THING, from 2012 to today. I would need to grovel, be overly emotional, and practically beg for forgiveness and reconciliation. There is obviously still so much rage from her. And I feel unwilling to let her back into my life anyway. I'm not even sure if reconciliation is advisable. I could never go back to the way things used to be, and for her its always all or nothing. Also, she has said she will never forgive me and NEVER feel the same way about me again, which makes it seem as if its not worth trying. This recent email seemed to be some sort of finality. I didn't respond, as I feel there's nothing I could say that would be helpful, and I think she may be trying to instigate another fight. (I believe she might actually enjoy arguments). How do I move on? I feel horrible about it all. Yet, I feel freer when I'm not involved in her drama. But I do miss her and miss our old sisterly bond.

Ugh... .Thanks for reading this novel. I'm just not sure how to move forward from here.

[monalisa86]

I'm 5 1/2 years younger than my older sister, L. When I was 3 and she was 8, my biological father died (it was her stepfather, as her bio dad was never in the picture). Though I don't remember him at all, it definitely affected L, and sh'es grown up with a massive fear of death (bordering on obsession) and also some clear fears of abandonment. My mom raised us, and I remember a happy childhood, with lots of fun and love. My sister L was mean at times, but not in an unusual way. I do remember often feeling like I was "annoying", because she called me this a lot. She was nice much of the time. I observed from early on, however, that she was the most powerful member of our family-the leader, almost. My unassertive, lax, and loving mother was always under her thumb. L's feelings and words were very domineering throughout our lives. That got worse for sure when she became a teenager. L wanted to drink and my mom let her, which was prob a mistake as I believe she has some alcohol abuse issues. Drinking could often end in anger with her and I remember some big fights between her and her boyfriend when she was 17 or so and I was 12. I'm not sure why exactly, but I know I've always been a bit scared of my sister. The feeling went away when she was being 'nice' and I felt I could trust her, but it would quickly return if she became angry.

She's extremely smart and insightful and can use words expertly to her advantage, like a powerful weapon. Fighting with her one feels cornered, belittled, and confused (suddenly you forget all of your logic and defenses and you start to feel like you're at fault or there's something wrong with you). She called me "oversensitive" a lot as a child.

In my early 20's she decided she wanted us to be "best friends", something she always was keen on then throughout the next several years. She'd say things like: "I'm glad we're close now, because I only started liking you last year." Little digs like that which were hurtful. She often made me feel as though my decision making skills were lacking and that I made dumb decisions. When I was deciding where to go to college she always gave me her input and mocked my choices. It was always very confusing to me and I felt like my self-worth and my confidence was constantly being undermined.

As we got closer when I was 20, we would hang out and have fun. Often she would drink too much and I'd try and go to bed early when that happened. I would drink with her too, and sometimes a little too much, but it was nothing like her drinking. She would then call our mom the next day and mention how "drunk" I'd been! My mom and I were close (especially because our personalities and temperaments are very similar and L has always resented that). L would tell my mom secrets I'd told her because she wanted to cause a rift between us, I guess. She liked to alarm my mom. One time I told my new "best friend" L that I had kissed my friend (a girl) on a dare. L then told my mom the next day to watch out because I had "lesbian tendencies". I started realising L wanted to be close but would constantly betray my trust. This kind of thing happened numerous times over the years. She always thought it was no big deal, and would call me "oversensitive". She also told me it was weird to not tell my mom these secrets, and claimed SHE told my mom all of her own secrets. I love my mom, but I believe there are some things she doesn't need to know or that would be weird to discuss with a parent.

Things were good and bad off and on for several years. At one point I moved to her same city and we became close. Our grandfather passed away in early 2012, and this is when things got worse. L's drinking definitely increased, and she'd frequently stay up until all hours. If she invited you over, you'd always be up until 3am or later, drinking a bit, her drinking a LOT, and inevitably, the conversations would turn to deep topics, ESPECIALLY death. It was not pleasant to be there. I'd often make excuses not to come over. It was a hard time. L, still controlling as always, would never come over to my apartment. I always had to go to hers. If her husband had to go out of town for one night, she'd text me and say that I HAD to come over and sleep over (she was fearful of being alone). If I couldn't, she'd get angry at me and accuse me of not being there for her. Or, she'd belittle me and tell me whatever previous plans I had were stupid and lame. She hated if I had plans that weren't all about her. If I went out with work friends she'd criticise me for going to a "disgusting bar" with "ridiculous, gross work friends." Just lots of little insults, chipping away.

I worked as a waitress once. She came in sometimes to eat and while it was fun to wait on her, she would never tip me. She'd write little pieces of "advice" on the tip line. I was never allowed to complain about this, but it was understood that she was being "funny" and this was just the way things were done with her. It was irksome. She always felt she had special priveleges and anyone disagreeing with her was ridiculous, oversensitive, and just plain wrong.

One day, she said she was going to come to my work for dinner. She said, "and you'll give me free wine, of course." I politely said, no I couldn't do that. That was illegal and it was a new job where I was not even that comfortable yet. I didn't want to lose my job. She kept joking about it and insisting I give her free stuff, even saying she'd complain to the management about me just to get free stuff. She said all this under the guise of joking, but I was firm and said I couldn't do that. She got really angry and told me, as usual, that I was ridiculous, and that every server she knows gives her free things. She acted like I was insane for saying no and that I was some overcautious baby. IT was so angering to me.

The problem was, I never set boundaries or stood up for myself when the little things happened, so when big things happened, one day I finally snapped and it was bad. It's been a few years since our big blowout so I almost don't even remember some of the circumstances. I know I played some part in the matter and am at fault for the poor way I handled it, but I could never explain that to L. Suffice it to say, I never had a chance to defend myself afterwards. I was so angry and I wrote a long, drawn out letter to L. I also included my family on the email, which was the biggest mistake, but she had just sent an email to the whole family saying we needed to heal and to speak up if there were problems. So I was doing just that. My email was truthful, but there were a few moments where I did say things that were not very nice. I do feel bad about that.

L flew into a rage and hurled insult after insult my way. There's no way to approach her with logic. If you defend yourself in a fight or explain your reasons for doing this or that she turns you into a monster and always paints herself as the victim. During that fighting period, she said some awful things about my life and my relationship, and I felt protective of that, so I blocked her on social media. I didn't want her knowing about my life or attacking it. She told me I was a weak, selfish, and horrible person and that the only time I was ever a good person was when I lived with her briefly. She told me she wished she never knew me and didn't care to ever speak to me again. She told me I hurt her more than anyone ever has or ever could. She called me a b___ and said f$%# you--actually even before the letter.

It all blew up into a huge thing and there was really no going back. For several months after I'd receive really cruel texts and emails, usually in the middle of the night when I assume she'd been drinking. Everything she said was stuff you would never say to a sister. I know I instigated it with my letter, but her responses were so much worse.

A few months later I reached out simply to wish her and her husband a happy anniversary. I said I loved them and hoped to see them at the holidays. L responded: You're a horrible person and I wish I never knew you. Don't ever contact us again.

Since then, I haven't. It's been almost 3 years. My mom is still in touch with L and their relationship is rocky. Right now, it's awful again. MY mom was visiting my sister two weeks ago, and while my mom was asleep, L went into my mom's phone and read all of the private Facebook messages between me and my mom. Unfortunately there were some unfriendly convos between my mom and I about L. My mom feels guilty, feels like a mother should never talk behind a daughter's back, but I think she has some anger and resentment she was letting out. And the two of us are the only two who understand the situation with L the way we do. We're the only people we can talk to. We were making fun of L a little bit, of her narcissistic photos on Fb where she uses family and friends as "props", and just saying some other not great stuff. Well, L was soo upset when she found these. Obviously she was hurt and angry. I feel bad, as I'd never want to hurt her intentionally, especially about such petty things that don't matter, but at the same time, I'm angry that she invaded our privacy. I would never have said those things unless it was to my mom and I thought it was a safe space. Plus, obviously I don't think kindly toward my sister much these days. Even though we don't talk, she still has the same fights and bad times with my mom, so I hate to see my mom suffer.

Anyway, my sister wrote me a surprise email just two days ago. It was sent at 2 am, as usual. She brought up all the old past problems and reiterated how much she was hurt by them and what an awful untrustworthy person I am. She mentioned the recent conversation as well. She ended the conversation by saying this further 'solidifies how she never wishes to speak to me again.' It's weird she even wrote it if she wants me to not respond? I cried for hours after reading it. I can't emphasize enough the power she seems to have and how deeply her words affect. She still scares me.

Well, I don't know what to do to move forward. I don't think anything would make this better short of contacting L and assuming blame for the ENTIRE THING, from 2012 to today. I would need to grovel, be overly emotional, and practically beg for forgiveness and reconciliation. There is obviously still so much rage from her. And I feel unwilling to let her back into my life anyway. I'm not even sure if reconciliation is advisable. I could never go back to the way things used to be, and for her its always all or nothing. Also, she has said she will never forgive me and NEVER feel the same way about me again, which makes it seem as if its not worth trying. This recent email seemed to be some sort of finality. I didn't respond, as I feel there's nothing I could say that would be helpful, and I think she may be trying to instigate another fight. (I believe she might actually enjoy arguments). How do I move on? I feel horrible about it all. Yet, I feel freer when I'm not involved in her drama. But I do miss her and miss our old sisterly bond.

Ugh... .Thanks for reading this novel. I'm just not sure how to move forward from here.

[Barbara Smith]

Dear Monalisa86,

I hope you do get some good advice, because I am in a similar situation with my younger sister and am confused about what to do.  I have been thinking lately that it can never really be worked out.  She sent me a biting and insulting letter at my birthday time, so I responded with the kindest email I could and said I would apologize for whatever I had done. I haven't heard back.  Even if she responded happily at this point, I wouldn't feel like I could totally trust her.  At this point I just feel like it has to end somewhere, so I guess it's with me letting go of the mean things she's said to me, and trying to respond with kindness.  It won't be easy, but I may not get a chance anyway, if she never responds.  Your ending sentences are my exact feelings :  horrible about it all, freer away from the drama, missing the sisterly bond.  As I said at the beginning, I hope you get some good advice.

[monalisa86]

Hi Barbara, Thanks for your response. How awful that she sent you that letter around your birthday, ugh. That really rings familiar to me. Yeah, for now it's a crap shoot. Respond and face some mean words hurled at me and a breaking down of my self-esteem and the protective barrier I've got placed around me, or ignore her and let things stay as is: not a great feeling, but somehow safer.

Hopefully someone can give us some thoughts. x

[goingtostopthis]

MonaLisa,

                      I can really relate to your story.  There's this thing going on between my mom and sister where my sister will say something really mean and judgemental about me,tell my mother about it  and then my mother will turn around and share this info. with me.   Like I'm not suppose to feel upset or affended.  Why she has done this ,I dont know. Same thing as with you,  Ive oftened wonder if they do this on purpose to intentionally start up drama.

                   Im afraid of my sister too right now. She's five years older then me and as I was growing up she was all ways picking at me, finding fault in something I was wearing. Making condesending comments to me and yes really trying to mess with my self confidence. Its interesting how the real truth in family dynamics is so seldom spoken about when it is usually the one main thing that needs to be addressed the most.  

                     There was a time about a year ago when my sister and I were really close, actually closer then we had ever been. She treated me as an equal with respect for the first time. Shed tell me honestly how she was feelings and what her problems were and I did the same.  Then something happened where I took a trip to England because I had a boyfriend there. I had never been out of the country before and I was proud of this new guy. She has all ready been to Paris and Swisterland, which she lied never going ,but I remember that time my mother telling me ,oh ya she went too.   I was hurt that I wasnt asked because my mothers side is Swiss and we have relatives over there.

                  Anyways,  I remember how happy and excited I was to go to England to see my boyfriend and she never once said that she was happy for me. I got absolutely no support from her. She stopped talking to me. You know its almost as if these sisters have these belief systems where the other sister has no feelings to hurt. Who cares.   I was really hurt.   It really effected me.  Was she jealous? Sibling rivalry case?  She all ways had a boyfriend,  all ways... .She kind of used them as a front or like shield to manuver her way around the rest of our family to show her importance.  And every boyfriend she had,  OF COURSE!  was all ways accepted into our family.

    Any boyfriend I had, when I had one, was inferior somehow. If she didnt like him, then my dad didnt like him and then my mom wouldnt like him because SHE didnt like him. By not liking , I mean they would  get the offish treatment. Not very warm or accepting which made me feel like crap.  oh!  Im with a goon again.  

    Anyways, your story is similar to mine in many ways.  Once she stopped talking to me and now that Im here inter acting with her, she's gotten worse.,way worse.  Its like the same family dynamics that went on between us as  teenagers has reared its ugly head and is now 10 times worse. She almost un bearable. She's snotty and snooty, with holds information on purpose, talks behind my back to my mom with this holier then thou self rightousness to her, ungrateful to a tee, bossy, controlling and Ill stop there Im getting tired. Im sure she's been in my room with -out my permission. I made this very clear to both of them to not go into my room unless they asked me. Yes, I had a problem with this.  How do I know?  I took a wine glass off this shelf she arranged purely for looks,  which has left me no place for my dishes(another story), and I used it for a glass of wine. I looked at the thing wondering if it was an antique, nope,  it had factory seams on it on both sides. None the less, Im an adult. I was taking care of it and I planned to wash it and put it back when I was done.

                                                            Well,  the next day my mother starts going on about how she had all these wine glasses she wanted to bring over to me that I could use.,out of no where.   busted! not me! Her!,my sister,   she never told me I couldnt use those glasses.  I guess Im not good enough for them. She had to have seen the half full wine glass on my bathroom counter and went and told my mom about it because she didnt want me using those glasses.  They cant be honest with me. They have to play these games. So, anything private of mine from now on has a special hiding place and soon I will have a lock on a trunk in here for my journals. Oh, ya.  and I blocked my sister too on fb. I had to do it.  It was hard, but boy did I feel better. I cant say anything to my mother about my sisters behavior anymore because she will tell her everything and probably add stuff. She will side with me,so iM led to believe and then turn on me and side with her.  I dont know why she does this. Does this insure to her that her co-dependant ,unnatural bond to my sister will never be broken? Does my mother have some secret fear that one day me and my sister with gang up on her. So she pits us?  Oh sweet justice is all I can say, but its just a pipe dream that will never happen.  I dont know what's going on underneath this all. Im just going by the behaviors Im seeing.

Maybe they both thrive on conflict. I suspect my sister is currently the leader in this. She makes you feel uncomfortable when she comes into a room here where I live, very uncomfortable and I think its intentional and I hate her for it. One day soon Im going to drop my uneasiness and fly right over her head with that wine glass balancing on my nose.   thee end  ( :    

[monalisa86]

Oh wow, Goingtostopthis, that sounds soo much like the behaviour of my sister! How awful! Especially that your mom is part of the problem, it seems. But yeah, what you said about traveling to England to see a boyfriend and not getting support rings true with me. And my sister also always had boyfriends (I don't think she even knows what its like to be single). She thinks she definitely has the monopoly on truth and it has made me grow up doubting my own decisions and beliefs tremendously. Ugh. It is so hard to change from those ways of being. It's so hard to shake off the influence she's had over my whole life! So do you live with your sister and family still?