During a Rage... Do they Lie ?

[In Pain]

My ex BPD GF was a constant lair... .And during her rages at me she used a ton of projection. Understood.

But there was one incident early in our relationship when she was having an hysterical crying raging fit. She confessed to me the incident when she was raped. ( I now suspect there were several rape incidents ).

Question:  Would she lie about this during a rage ?

I suspect that this was an episode of PTSD.

Just curious... .Nothing surprises me anymore.

Thx

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[MaroonLiquid]

Short answer, YES... .

[enlighten me]

Sometimes the truth can come out and sometimes it can be them trying to say what they mean but a load of rubbish comes out. And sometimes it might not be true but they believe it is.

This is something ive been trying to piece together myself. What did she say that was valid andwhat was her messed up view on things.

[ColdEthyl]

Yes they lie. They will lie to protect themselves, and I think they lie to 'fit' things they are thinking and feeling at the time.

[maxsterling]

I'm sure it is one of those things that is different for different people - but in the case of my SO, I think everything she says during a rage/dysregulation she believes to be true.  I try to take it with a grain of salt, knowing she does have differing perspective, and I am only hearing one side of things.  I especially keep this in mind when she is saying things that involve another person (an ex, her parents, my parents, a friend, etc.)

[In Pain]

Look…... the fact is she’s BPD to the max !  I have experienced every symptom and story described in the DSM and on this forum.  I’ve seen it all.

That said…... a rape at 10 years old is the perfect setup for BPD and all the associated disorders.  So why lie about this if you are indeed telling me such a personal experience.

I’m not defending her in any way, just trying to use logic ( now there’s an oxymoron regarding BPD !   LOL)

Does the truth EVER come out of their mouth ?

I figured it was an episode of PTSD because she wasn’t accusing me of anything, wasn’t devaluing me in any way.  She was just in a drunken hysterical upset crying fit.

Basically another Tuesday night ! LOL

Just so you know…... I’m making a joke here….but the past 5 months for me have been soo painful.  It’s only now through this forum, constant reading, and therapy that my sense of humor has returned. I mean no disrespect to anyone, I just see the absurdity in it all.

[ColdEthyl]

There's no way for us to tell for sure if she's lying about that, but if I was a betting person, I would say she was not. It seems like a lot of pwBPD experience sexual/child abuse at some point, so you are correct in that assessment.

Look…... the fact is she’s BPD to the max !  I have experienced every symptom and story described in the DSM and on this forum.  I’ve seen it all.

That said…... a rape at 10 years old is the perfect setup for BPD and all the associated disorders.  So why lie about this if you are indeed telling me such a personal experience.

I’m not defending her in any way, just trying to use logic ( now there’s an oxymoron regarding BPD !   LOL)

Does the truth EVER come out of their mouth ?

I figured it was an episode of PTSD because she wasn’t accusing me of anything, wasn’t devaluing me in any way.  She was just in a drunken hysterical upset crying fit.

Basically another Tuesday night ! LOL

Just so you know…... I’m making a joke here….but the past 5 months for me have been soo painful.  It’s only now through this forum, constant reading, and therapy that my sense of humor has returned. I mean no disrespect to anyone, I just see the absurdity in it all.

[pallavirajsinghani]

To answer your question, please allow me to put another question first:

Do you know the difference between Truth and a Fact?

Truth is subjective and Fact is just what it means, a fact:

An example of a FACT is:  X killed Y.

An example of TRUTH is:  X killed Y because X felt threatened by Y.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With this premise, it is immaterial whether being raped is a fact or not.  She believes that it happened, therefore it is her Truth.

You need to respect her Truth... .whether or not it indeed did happen.

She felt raped in a certain circumstance... .whether the actual act was consensual factually speaking or not... .is immaterial.

Remember... .for a BPD sufferer, feelings equal facts.

[In Pain]

Interesting thought.

And with that thought... .Can someone who truly believes that they were raped as a child, factually or figuratively ... .Have a PTSD type episode ?

[pallavirajsinghani]

And with that thought... .Can someone who truly believes that they were raped as a child, factually or figuratively ... .Have a PTSD type episode ?

Yes.  Auto Suggestion is a real phenomenon--as is self-hypnotism. 

It appears to me that BPD is a disease of dysphoria.  The sufferers themselves are searching for the cause of their suffering.  Therefore, they will believe that they are unhappy because the sky is blue and then because it is not... .because you are perfect and then because you are not... .and because this happened in their child-hood or perhaps it did not... .

You see, these may be just the belief of the moment that explains to them their own anger and hate and intense unhappiness.

It is an issue of faulty neural pathways.

Considering the scientifically proven fact of neuro plasticity, BPD indeed can become a managed disorder.  Many sufferers who have been able to understand and manage their condition talk about it openly

[enlighten me]

Its a disturbing subject for me. When my exgf was pregnant there was an incident. She was overdue and we were recomended to make love to try and bring on the labour. We hadnt been intimate for a while and I now realise I was painted black. We went to the bedroom and she said lets get this over with.We started and I was tender and carressing her. She said were not making love were getting the baby out. After a while she seemed upset so I stopped and asked if she was ik. She replied just get on with it.

a few monyhs later she was upset and I asked what was up. She said that when we were trying to get the baby out that she was upset that I didnt see how upset she was and that it felt rapey.

I was gobsmacked. I tried to tell her that I did see she was upset but she didnt believe me.

I see now that I had already been devalued by then and me touching her must have been upsetting as it was someone she didnt like. She painted her own truth based on the event but missing out all the things that made me look caring. To this day she probably believes I raped her which hurts me very much.

[waverider]

My partner has cried rape twice now.

The feeling I get is that she felt used and disrespected by both these people, so it felt like being raped in a psychological sense. Her only way of of expression is to to turn feelings into physical action, hence calling them physical rapes.

One was her psychologist who she had a long standing affair with (before I met her), and the latter one with a friend of hers while I have known her.

[slimmiller]

Do they Lie?

No, not in their mind.

BPDs will creat facts/events to support how they feel and to support what they 'want' to believe. Facts can and do become subjective to them.

For nons, we are objective and we view things for what they are. BPDs have an 'incoming filter' where they can distort information before it hits their brain almost so they hear what they need to in order to support what they want to hear.

Maddening, I know. I can now tell when my ex (we parallell parent three kids so I am LC) is doing that. Her face gets a weird look and she kind of squints as she processes information and then she begins to speak again like she never even heard what I said. She reframes and resets incoming information so she can process it without logic because logic requires her to deal with pesky inconvenient FACTS which are not very useful to her

Now imagine someone doing that with fresh current incoming stimuli and imagine what she can do with things that happened in the past. Distorting that is even easier because she remembers what she NEEDS to rememeber

[maxsterling]

Interesting discussion on truth/facts.  I think that is important for all of us to remember - that many of the things we feel the pwBPD is lying about are true in their reality.  Accusing them of lying or even questioning them on that will lead to nowhere.

Regarding the PTSD - I have no doubt my SO has it (she has been diagnosed).  Some of the PTSD is a result of very bad things that happened to her.  But I do wonder if some of the PTSD triggers are from situations that she got herself involved in.   And I wonder if that is part of the internal struggle, between the facts and her truth.  She knows how she feels about a situation (her truth), but also knows the facts.  Example of her truth: She's had many boyfriends simply abandon her and run away, now she feels triggered when I leave the house.

Facts:  Boyfriends left to escape her abusive behavior. 

She can't accept the facts as they are, yet she knows and admits that those facts are there. 

[waverider]

Interesting discussion on truth/facts.  I think that is important for all of us to remember - that many of the things we feel the pwBPD is lying about are true in their reality.  Accusing them of lying or even questioning them on that will lead to nowhere.

Regarding the PTSD - I have no doubt my SO has it (she has been diagnosed).  Some of the PTSD is a result of very bad things that happened to her.  But I do wonder if some of the PTSD triggers are from situations that she got herself involved in.   And I wonder if that is part of the internal struggle, between the facts and her truth.  She knows how she feels about a situation (her truth), but also knows the facts.  Example of her truth: She's had many boyfriends simply abandon her and run away, now she feels triggered when I leave the house.

Facts:  Boyfriends left to escape her abusive behavior. 

She can't accept the facts as they are, yet she knows and admits that those facts are there. 

I agree with you much of the trauma in the life of a pwBPD arises as a side effect of the BPD. The retelling has then had a heavy dose of "catastrophizing" applied to it. So it does all get a bit murky. The link to how they are now back to some event in the past seems obvious, because they have often made it seem that way, as that is their twisted linking. It may have nothing to with it or not. The connection is a product of their own reasoning.

My partner makes huge jumps in reasoning, to anyone who wasn't there (even to me) it always sounds entirely reasonable. Invariably the link is a red herring