Is it common for a pwBPD to really care about what they have done?

[KaishaMikasa]

Update from the front.  We had a pretty good weekend with us going to her dad's house for an early Christmas, the kids recital and a movie. She went out on Sunday and talked with a friend of hers ( who has been in therapy her entire life for anorexia and other issues and is married to an alcohol with serious mommy issues.  He had the worst mother ever!)  and now we are in quiet mode.  She is acting like nothing ever happened.  It seems to me that as this progresses her period where she tries to make up gets shorter.  It also appears to me that there is no consequences or remorse for what she has done. 

Can anyone tell me please if it is common for a PWBPD to really care about what they have done?  Will there come a point when she just will not care at all about what she is doing?  It seems that to me that if the period of going back to old  ways gets shorter she will eventually just stop worrying about it at all.

[Mutt]

Hi ehartma,

It's a tall order for a person with a mental illness. Is she in therapy? My ex doesn't give the impression she's aware. I have seldom receive apologies for egregious acts. I had to radically accept her for whom she is. A person with a serious disorder, I was setting the bar too high. As much as she would like to try to meet me half-way she simply cannot. I had to accept this.

[EaglesJuju]

Hi ehartma,

As Mutt said, it is really hard for someone with a mental illness to externally show that they have remorse.  A large part of BPD is extreme feelings of shame.  I do believe they are aware of the consequences but, cannot cope with it.  They use defense mechanisms like avoidance, projection, and dissociation, to cope with those intense feelings.   

I have received apologies after my pwBPD's bouts of dysregulation and defense mechanisms.  I do know he was remorseful of his behavior.  It is just very hard for him to take responsibility and admit it.  He tends to use avoidance behavior to cope with his feelings. 

[KaishaMikasa]

She has been to one session this time around with another scheduled this week.  As this post was moved I will update you.  This is the third time she has gone to therapy and marriage counseling.  Each time it is after she has done something terrible.  Once the therapists are on to her she stops going.  Nothing is ever her fault and once she is called out on it or the therapist figures out her game she stops.  This is really affecting me as I grew up with a BPD/NPD misandric mother.  Who I saw tonight and she started spewing her man hater retoric in front of my youngest son and I basically threw it back at her.  I know I have codependency issues and some mommy issues but I am fired up by my wife's behavior and lack of remorse.  She has an appointment on Thursday and I have one on wed.  She is insisting that I drop my current T and work with the one she is working with.  What she does not understand is that he told me last week that my only problem is that "I have a f$&ked up wife"!  He told me that we will be working on healing some damage our relationship has done and how better to respond to her.  Honestly, I am beginning to think that I am done with this.  The only thing that has kept me here are my sons bit one is 16 and is sick her.  The other she likes to target when I travel and it worries me.

[Mutt]

Stick with your T. She may be asking you to switch to hers because the T may not know they're going to get triangulated, nay have a sympathetic ear with her. If you sync with your T it's your choice or not.

It's frustrating, confusing and hurtful. I'm sorry she denigrated you in front of your son. I used to detest that, still do. My Achilles heel.

If you fire back at her and she blames all the time. Do you think she'll register this? She's mentally ill after all. It's frustrating when our voices are not heard and invalidated. Everyone loses when we argue and fight.

[KaishaMikasa]

She just some me up at 11:30 to give me a hard time about not telling her I went to her therapist?  I can't help it anymore I gave her a thorough and cathartic reeming!  I am afraid that I can no longer handle dealing with her.  How the hell do you control yourself I. The face of thier entitled victim game.

[Mutt]

Emotional blackmail, Obligation and Guilt from FOG.

She's trying to make you feel bad.

Controlling oneself is trying a different response. If she's calling you at 1130 and your giving her reeming. Negative attention is still attention.

Don't Justify. Attack. Defend. Explain. JADE.

Have you ever been able to get her to agree with you when you Justify yourself?

Does Attacking her ever win an argument?

When you Defend yourself, does she ever accept what you say as the truth?

How about when you Explain yourself? Does that ever calm her down?

Think about it - how's JADE'ing been working out for you?


When faced with untrue accusations it feels natural to want to defend yourself. To explain yourself. After all, no one wants to hear lies and distortions of the truth.

The problem is that JADE rarely works. It often makes things worse. She won't believe you because as soon as you start justify/attacking/defending/explaining yourself her own defense mechanisms kick in and she can't process what you say. You see, she can't accept being wrong. Her version of what happened is her truth. Her feelings are her facts. She hears your JADE as blame and criticism, and to her blame and criticism feels unbearably painful. She blocks out painful information by attacking and shifting the blame onto you instead.

There are more effective ways to communicate "your truth", such as SET, GIVE, and DEARMAN. They were developed to get past a pwBPD's defense mechanisms.  Timing is also critical, so choose a time when she isn't in an argumentative mood already. A spoonful of validation and empathy also help set the stage so that she is more open and receptive to hearing what you have to say.

Understanding JADE

[Ripped Heart]

Hi ehartma,

It appears you are in a very frustrating position right now and I empathise with how difficult this must be for you. It's never easy when someone acts like there is nothing wrong and sends your mind into a spin. I can attest to that and posted a similar post last night along those lines.

We are frustrated when there is no acknowledgement of any wrong doing, likewise it's equally as frustrating when they do acknowledge it. Someone once said that when someone is having a BPD episode, they become the equivalent of a 5 year old child. Partly because the disorder is as a result of missed development from when they were young. That said, would you expect a 5 year old to fully understand their actions in an adult world? There has to be a level of responsibility but there also has to be a level of patience from our side too.

I've made big mistakes over this year which haven't gone too well. Mostly because I've been ill equipped to deal with the situation. I've held my partner accountable for her actions and expected apologies, which have only made her worst. She is very open about the fact she can't help it or understand where these feelings and impulses come from but I've treated her like a healthy adult instead of accepting as part of the disorder. All this has done is push us further apart and then I over compensate by allowing her to get away with things the next time which make matters worse too.

There have been times when she has been nasty, only to apologise later. I think I struggle around how to communicate that acceptance of an apology because I tend to bring up the situation and it makes her feel worse. For example, she will explain it's because she didn't take her medication and I will remind her that she needs to take it. I think it comes across as more of a demand than me understanding why she misses it and it's unfair on her. Part of that is me saying, it's ok I forgive you but I'm still hurting and don't want it to happen again. She then gets anxious and the cycle continues.

The best days have been where I just accept her for who she is without having expectations and not take it personally (very difficult to do)

It's a rock and a hard place when you are angry and want them to accept responsibility. Most can't and some can but at a cost. I got myself a Therapist to try and navigate around some of these issues and also as a place to vent those frustrations. Therapists are great in the sense they can also offer you advice on how to deal with certain situations and help you to get through the ride too.

[maxen]

hi ehartma. in the case of my stbxw, she expressed shame about her drinking and spending. this was after she blindsided me and ran to someone else, about which actions she shrugged. more than once during the marriage she dealt with difficult situations by, literally, running away. but in no case that i recall did she spontaneously take responsibility for the content and consequences of her behavior (in the face of which i, like you, had trouble controlling myself!).

an essential quality of BPD is a hypersensitivity to judgement. i think my wife knows that some of what she did was wrong, but she cannot face that. like many others, i insisted on treating my wife as an adult in the face of overwhelming contradictory evidence that i saw but simply couldn't absorb.

have you read through the lessons "Choosing a Path" on the right hand side of this page?