Failure to recognise abuse

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi all

Merry Christmas to you! Not been on here for a while, but good to see you're all still marvellous.   

I've been low/NC for a while with my Dad. There was a family funeral last year, but I made it through without panic attacks. This was a huge result!

I've always sent him and his partner a Christmas present; this is to honour his position as my biological parent and recognise his affection for the season. Normally, this doesn't cause much of an issue. Not this year!

I received the most awful text message. He chastised me for the way I treated him at his mother's funeral (3 contacts ago!). The sad thing is I had considered approaching more contact this year, but I now see he is as sick as ever.

I don't really care what he thinks about me, but it is clear from his message that he still doesn't accept responsibility for the emotional abuse I experienced through childhood and beyond. I work with children now and I would press for intervention if I heard the least of it.

Do you think it is safe and appropriate to have a relationship with an abuser if they cannot recognise their behaviour as wrong? Or even remember it?  What am I telling my 12 year old self if I do that?

I am going to work through this with my therapist, but I'd be interested in your view.

Thanks xxx

[CBoo]

Hi all

Merry Christmas to you! Not been on here for a while, but good to see you're all still marvellous.   

I've been low/NC for a while with my Dad. There was a family funeral last year, but I made it through without panic attacks. This was a huge result!

I've always sent him and his partner a Christmas present; this is to honour his position as my biological parent and recognise his affection for the season. Normally, this doesn't cause much of an issue. Not this year!

I received the most awful text message. He chastised me for the way I treated him at his mother's funeral (3 contacts ago!). The sad thing is I had considered approaching more contact this year, but I now see he is as sick as ever.

I don't really care what he thinks about me, but it is clear from his message that he still doesn't accept responsibility for the emotional abuse I experienced through childhood and beyond. I work with children now and I would press for intervention if I heard the least of it.

Do you think it is safe and appropriate to have a relationship with an abuser if they cannot recognise their behaviour as wrong? Or even remember it?  What am I telling my 12 year old self if I do that?

I am going to work through this with my therapist, but I'd be interested in your view.

Thanks xxx

[Kwamina]

Hi CBoo and welcome back here

I received the most awful text message. He chastised me for the way I treated him at his mother's funeral (3 contacts ago!). The sad thing is I had considered approaching more contact this year, but I now see he is as sick as ever.

I don't really care what he thinks about me, but it is clear from his message that he still doesn't accept responsibility for the emotional abuse I experienced through childhood and beyond. I work with children now and I would press for intervention if I heard the least of it.

I am sorry you received this nasty text message from your father. It's very good though that you realize there's something wrong with him and seem able not to let his words get to you too much. His words really don't say anything about who you really are, but are merely a reflection of his own inner chaos and negativity. Not taking these kinds of outbursts personally can be quite difficult, but is very important to remain emotionally balanced.

Do you think it is safe and appropriate to have a relationship with an abuser if they cannot recognise their behaviour as wrong? Or even remember it?  What am I telling my 12 year old self if I do that?

I think you probably already know the answer to this one. It isn't safe but since it's your father it is quite understandable that you would want to have some form of contact with him. If you choose to do so, please keep in mind the title of your first thread here 'Boundaries in place'. When dealing with someone with BPD, setting and enforcing boundaries is crucial. I still have contact with my uBPD mom but am fully aware of who and what she really is and have several boundaries in place. Having contact with your BPD loved ones or not, is s a choice everyone has gotta make for herself/himself. I still have contact with my uBPD mom and sis but am totally NC with my brother. He isn't BPD but in certain ways he's even worse and that's why I've chosen NC with him.

However you decide to move forward with your relationship with your dad, it's good that you have someone to guide you in this process in the person of your therapist.

Merry Christmas to you too!  

[Harri]

Hi CBoo.  I am going to say the obvious which is that everyone has to make that decision on their own.  

For me, after i first found out about BPD and was coming to terms with a lot of things, I did want my mother and father to recognize, acknowledge and apologize for what they did.  After all they damaged me and they were wrong and abusive.   But I also knew it just was not in the cards for me.  My mother, as crazy and as damaging as she was, did what she thought was right and would swear on her life that she would do anything for me.  LOL  I realized that when I was listening her talk to an acquaintance who also had kids (I was in my 20's) and this person said to my mother "let's face it, we would eat ___ for our kids" and they both stood there nodding at each other.  I have no idea what kind of mother this other person was, but that is when i realized that even though she did not love me in a healthy way or in a way that most normal people love, she fully believed that she loved me and that she did the very best she could.  I realized I would never be able to convince her otherwise and I no longer tried to get her to admit or acknowledge anything... .and I stopped thinking about it and hoping for it.  I no longer needed it for me to be able to move through and work on me, not even for little Harri.  I was going to have to take care of her (little me) regardless and she was going to have to learn to deal with the way things were.  

I guess what I'm saying is that for me, I realized that if I set my goal as her owning what she did and getting help for herself and apologizing, that I would get myself stuck in an endless loop of longing for things my mother was just not capable of doing.  I had already lived a life of no win situations full of outrage and despair and I was done with that crap.  I decided to change the game rules and made my mental health and wellbeing dependent on me, not my mother doing something she was not capable of doing.

This is what worked for me.  I know others who feel differently and have been very successful at healing and breaking away from the abuse.  We all get to make our own choice there and I too will be interested to see how others respond here.

[Reluctant Dragon]

I really have a hard time with the concept that a pwBPD "can't remember" when they've done you wrong. If you were to talk to my egg donor right now she would absolutely swear she doesn't remember the things she did to me as a child. But I guarantee you that she would be able to ramble off a list of every thing I've done "wrong" to her from the moment of my birth up to the present day. So clearly there is no real disorder in her ability to recall things she WANTS to. Ergo, I believe she damn well remembers, she just doesn't want to admit it.


Likewise I suspect she knows full well her witchy behaviors are hurtful and cruel. She just doesn't CARE.

[CBoo]

Thanks for your responses. 

I think the frustration I am carrying with his inability to remember and own is my Achilles heel.  Although my mum did her level best, things were so violent towards the end of their marriage that she was in survival mode.  The main impact of this on me was that I felt totally invisible - none of my emotional needs were met. I've had to work really hard on this over the years, and don't tend to form relationships with people who aren't able to work adult-adult. If I encounter BPD at work I can manage it, but I find it a bit dull tbh (Harsh!). So, his lack of memory and ownership hits my most sensitive spot. I am just not willing to be invisible in an adult relationship - I guess that might be my answer?

Btw I absolutely believe he can't remember - he could slip into psychotic states which I'm sure never made the memory banks. These things don't reinforce his view of his world, so why would he remember?

[losthero]

Im not sure if he remembers things accurately.  I do believe that often times people with this disorder are delusional.  I mean truly delusional.  They rewrite or just plain interpret their emotional responses or actions to you to "fit" their projected reality.   They are like wounded animals, always searching for ways to bypass further pain.  They have "cut them off at the pass" type thinking. Or also known as hurt you before you hurt me.  Its hard to communicate with someone that is always having their own twisted conversation in their head and interpreting things you say incorrectly even while you are still talking.  Makes one feel invisible, invalidated, discounted.    How do we deal with their delusional thinking? Mostly it appears to make the harsh decision to realize they are sick and keep the conversation to light,non emotional talk. Like the weather or something nice happening in town.  You cannot ever, ever allow them to be a confidant for you.  It will bite you.  I know its not the relationship you long for or deserve and Im sorry for that.  If you just cant cope with the total invalidation of you as a person then maybe some time away to work on your own emotional wounds is what is needed.  Either way you are supported here 

[zxmct98]

I completely identify with what Harri said. In my case I do believe that my mom loves me and "wants the best for me" - as long as it suits her. She doesn't view her behavior as abusive because she loves me but since I don't take her advice as gospel(when everything she says is pure genius) she has to practice tough love in the form of insane rages and temper tantrums.

It's twisted.

[P.F.Change]

Btw I absolutely believe he can't remember - he could slip into psychotic states which I'm sure never made the memory banks. These things don't reinforce his view of his world, so why would he remember?

This is common. Many people with BPD don't remember their rages. My mother doesn't remember abusing me, either, and really believes I have fabricated accusations just to hurt her.

You seem to really want your father to acknowledge the pain he caused you and express remorse for it. He seems to be incapable of meeting that expectation. That's not surprising if he has a PD. However, just because he doesn't remember something doesn't mean it didn't happen. Just because he will not accept responsibility for his behavior doesn't mean he is not responsible for it or that it did not negatively affect his relationship with you. It is okay for you to feel hurt by his abusive behavior and to take steps to protect yourself and your child. You do not have to put aside your feelings to satisfy someone else. You do not have to pretend to trust someone you do not trust. It sounds to me like you do not feel very safe around your father. I don't think that's unreasonable. It's okay to have boundaries and to take care of yourself.

Wishing you peace (and reciprocating wishes for a Merry Christmas),

PF

[CBoo]

Great responses. Thank you.  Here's to a fab 2015.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi CBoo,

It's taken me a couple of days to make the time to sit down and find what I wanted to share with you in a book I have which relates to your topic of remembering the abuse. I was very struck by this when I first read it as it made quite an impression on me and helps to explain my questions about this very same thing.

Btw I absolutely believe he can't remember - he could slip into psychotic states which I'm sure never made the memory banks. These things don't reinforce his view of his world, so why would he remember?

This is from Lawson's book Understanding the Borderline Mother, pgs. 11 & 12 under the heading "She Says It Didn't Happen."

"Borderlines often forget painful experiences that their children remember vividly. Studies show that chronically intense emotions damage the part of the brain that is responsible for memory (Christianson 1992). Chronic emotional stress exposes the brain to an excess of glucocorticoids, hormones that normally help the brain cope with stress. The hippocampus, which controls memory functioning, contains a high number of glucocorticoid receptors and is therefore susceptible to damage (Schacter 1996). Because borderline mothers experienced overwhelming emotional distress as children, areas in their brain responsible for memory and emotional regulation may be damaged. Studies using magnetic resonance imaging to examine the brains of females who were abused as children found that the left hippocampus was actually smaller than those in subjects from a control group. Consequently, borderline mothers may not remember experiences recalled by their children. A vicious cycle results as children with borderline mothers are immersed in an emotionally intense environment that, if unmitigated, may also damage their cognitive functioning."

"Because the borderline mother is unable to remember intensely emotional events, she is unable to learn from experience. She may repeat destructive behaviors without recalling previous consequences... .Therapists report that borderline mothers are often unable to confirm their children's traumatic memories."

I know this is referring to the BPDm, but I would think it would also be the same or similar for BPDf as well.

Some interesting food for thought! I am so sorry for the frustration that this brings to you. You are having a normal response be assured.

Woolspinner

[Turkish]

Hello CBoo, Happy New Year to you and to us all!

The only time my mom says she "may have abused" me was the time she was raging on me so badly that I had a seizure and fell to the ground. I guess my brain just shut down. Luckily, we were on a dirt road and my head didn't hit a rock.   That scared her enough that she laid off... .for a few weeks at least. I remember the incident, but I tried to not be at home as much as possible. I was 14 or 15. From when I was 12 until I left the house at 18, she was in and out of depression and severe emotional dysregulation.

There's something to impaired memory as Woolspinner posted from Lawson's book. I think in my mom's case, she compared herself to her father, who raped her, belted all of the kids for just about everything, was a raging alcoholic, and threw her brothers hard enough into the garage walls to leave dents in the drywall. What can compare to that in her mind? Part of it may also be shame deep down. We can only speculate in your father's case.

It's great that you are working through this with your T, to get in touch with your 12 year old self, who still exists within you. You will likely never get acknowledgment from him, nor closure. If you don't feel emotionally safe to contact him, then take care of yourself. He is who he is. That's likely not going to change.