Final pieces to the puzzle, please help

[jammo1989]

I have been on this board for around 5 months and I almost feel like I'm finally there in regards to healing, but there is something I need to work out, I am going to write a deep or should I say personal part of what I think happened with my ex.

After about the 16 month period she started opening up about her past towards me, she told me why she put herself into foster care, she told me about how her mum let her alcoholic bf at the time strangle her till the point of passing out, she told me how she started having these intense nightmares where she could smell the alchahol on that mans breath, how it felt so real, and how she went into depression.  Before I explain any further, can I say that, I had met her mother numerous times to this, and although she was Bi Polar she was so lovely towards me, and my ex seemed to be happy after getting back in contact with her mother.

She told me about being strangled on the phone and that her mum (the woman I actually thought was lovely) didn't try to stop this man from commuting such a disgusting act.  As you can imagine I went mental! I said *You disgust me* how or why do you even give that person the time of day after that? If my parents did that I'd have nothing to do with them! I was so angry and incredibly protective over my ex at this point, I told her you need to cut her off now! And she said I don't care she's still my mum, while crying down the phone.

I later found out from her that the *you disgust me* brought up memories from her past, because that is exactly the same thing her perceived or who she thinks is her dad said to her when she had an abortion at 14 years old. She cried and cried, and no matter what I said she would always reply with I open up to you and now I disgust you! I told her I'm being protective nobody hurts you!

Then the next incident happened where her 2 best mates were pregnant and she begged me for a baby, she would cry and and night because she said emotionally her broodyness was taking over her.  She then said a a week down the line if in pregnant in keeping it its my body not yours, she also said, my mate said if I an I should just have it to piss you off.

I went mental and said I'm it having a ___ing baby with you! Your are not going to put our baby in a position like this (she wanted me to see the baby every weekend, wouldn't let me move in and wouldnt move to where i worked)

Ever since then it was all down hill, she would text me saying I love you, and she would seem happy, but as soon as I called her and she heard my voice she burst out crying, she was like I love you, but every time I hear your voice or hear your name I hate you, I hate what you've done to me, I can't stop crying and it's because of you!

She then told me she may be pregnant And that I needed to see her, it was negative, but then told me she had an abortion the weekend before she went to London with her girl mates, I was told I killed the baby and that she would never forgive me.  I later found out that there was no pregnancy scare or abortion it was all one big lie.

She later told her son that I was the reason she always cried and her son started to hate me, the last piece of the shory is, later down the line when we met up to talk about everything, she said, * I can deal with the you disgust me thing* but every time I see a baby I cry, I cry for the baby you never wanted*.

Was I a trigger to her past? Can someone please help me piece the last things together

Thank you!

[fromheeltoheal]

That's tough jammo, a lot of drama, and it's hard to tell what's true and what isn't after a while.  The fact that you found out the pregnancy and abortion were a lie is a hint though; notice she not only lied about it, but used the fictional event to label you a "baby killer".

Borderlines have excellent radar for caretaker types.  Think about abandonment again, the worst thing that can ever happen to a borderline and the continual focus, so how do you get someone to not leave you no matter what?  You paint a picture of a horrendous upbringing and play victim, elicit lots and lots of sympathy, cry a lot about it, whatever it takes to get the hooks in deep, where the caretaker in you is completely committed no matter what.  And then you won't leave.

On the other hand, a personality disorder was created in an environment that was ripe for it.  My ex moved out of her parents house and in with her grandparents when she was 11, her idea, because she was fleeing an environment she couldn't tolerate; I know that's true, but the details were foggy from her, a defense mechanism to block out things she couldn't face probably, and I learned not to believe anything she said necessarily.  So things happened in your ex's past no question, and of course what happened and how it was interpreted are two different things, but whatever happened formed the personality she now has.

A way a borderline tolerates the continual feelings of abandonment versus engulfment, the push/pull, is to be in complete control in the relationship, and a handy way to do that is hang on phrases like "you disgust me", cry on cue, and hopefully make you feel so badly about yourself and so guilty, and also so protective, that you won't leave.  Think about it: if it really was true that "you disgust me" was a very negative term for her, you could have said it once, gotten the reaction, talked it out, showed your support, and resolved it.  But it came in handy.

So beyond what was true and what wasn't, you are wondering if you were a trigger to her past, but it seems you got to that point in a relationship with a borderline where you were the trigger in general.  She was feeling intense emotions that she couldn't deal with, brought on by your continued closeness and whatever else was going on in her life, and the defense mechanisms kicked into high gear, projection and blame, push away, then feeling abandoned, then "I love you", then crying; that part of the relationship is like careening down a mountain road in a car with no brakes, and the only way to avoid the crash is to jump out, which is going to hurt too because you're flying, but the sooner you jump the less it will hurt.

BPD is a mental illness; trying to navigate and make sense of the twists and turns of a disorder is crazymaking, especially when you're emotionally enmeshed, as you know at this point.  One way to make it sit better in your head is to forget the words and focus on the behaviors; the behaviors can be consistent when the words are all over the place, and the behaviors are the truth.

Whew!  A little windy this morning, but hopefully a thing or two you can use.  Take care of you!

[jammo1989]

That's tough jammo, a lot of drama, and it's hard to tell what's true and what isn't after a while.  The fact that you found out the pregnancy and abortion were a lie is a hint though; notice she not only lied about it, but used the fictional event to label you a "baby killer".

Borderlines have excellent radar for caretaker types.  Think about abandonment again, the worst thing that can ever happen to a borderline and the continual focus, so how do you get someone to not leave you no matter what?  You paint a picture of a horrendous upbringing and play victim, elicit lots and lots of sympathy, cry a lot about it, whatever it takes to get the hooks in deep, where the caretaker in you is completely committed no matter what.  And then you won't leave.

On the other hand, a personality disorder was created in an environment that was ripe for it.  My ex moved out of her parents house and in with her grandparents when she was 11, her idea, because she was fleeing an environment she couldn't tolerate; I know that's true, but the details were foggy from her, a defense mechanism to block out things she couldn't face probably, and I learned not to believe anything she said necessarily.  So things happened in your ex's past no question, and of course what happened and how it was interpreted are two different things, but whatever happened formed the personality she now has.

A way a borderline tolerates the continual feelings of abandonment versus engulfment, the push/pull, is to be in complete control in the relationship, and a handy way to do that is hang on phrases like "you disgust me", cry on cue, and hopefully make you feel so badly about yourself and so guilty, and also so protective, that you won't leave.  Think about it: if it really was true that "you disgust me" was a very negative term for her, you could have said it once, gotten the reaction, talked it out, showed your support, and resolved it.  But it came in handy.

So beyond what was true and what wasn't, you are wondering if you were a trigger to her past, but it seems you got to that point in a relationship with a borderline where you were the trigger in general.  She was feeling intense emotions that she couldn't deal with, brought on by your continued closeness and whatever else was going on in her life, and the defense mechanisms kicked into high gear, projection and blame, push away, then feeling abandoned, then "I love you", then crying; that part of the relationship is like careening down a mountain road in a car with no brakes, and the only way to avoid the crash is to jump out, which is going to hurt too because you're flying, but the sooner you jump the less it will hurt.

BPD is a mental illness; trying to navigate and make sense of the twists and turns of a disorder is crazymaking, especially when you're emotionally enmeshed, as you know at this point.  One way to make it sit better in your head is to forget the words and focus on the behaviors; the behaviors can be consistent when the words are all over the place, and the behaviors are the truth.

Whew!  A little windy this morning, but hopefully a thing or two you can use.  Take care of you!

Thank you Heels! I was going to PM you this because your advice and i sight always hits the nail on the head! I thought she wanted a baby out of abandonment fears, but what you added about the you disgust me as a cue to hold onto the victim role and the you were all ready the trigger at this point also makes perfect sense, because the more she cried and guilt tripped the more I ended up saying to her I'm sorry it's my fault not yours.  When we met up to exchange belongings she even said * look me in the eye and tell me your sorry, tell me your sorry for all the pain you caused me, say sorry for what you said about our baby* at this point I was like I'm sorry, we cuddled, kissed she gave me a hickey, then when I had to go she went back into crying mode. 

Thank you again Heels

[fromheeltoheal]

When we met up to exchange belongings she even said * look me in the eye and tell me your sorry, tell me your sorry for all the pain you caused me, say sorry for what you said about our baby* at this point I was like I'm sorry,

She was asking you to own her projection and take responsibility for her feelings, and you did.  You are serving your purpose at that point, but it would only get worse, and I'd want to throw you a rope and pull you out if I was there.

we cuddled, kissed she gave me a hickey, then when I had to go she went back into crying mode.

 

A hickey.  How completely inappropriate.  But the keep-him toolbox gets large when abandonment is imminent.  Take a moment to congratulate yourself on taking care of you and facing this stuff, you're on it man!

[jammo1989]

When we met up to exchange belongings she even said * look me in the eye and tell me your sorry, tell me your sorry for all the pain you caused me, say sorry for what you said about our baby* at this point I was like I'm sorry,

She was asking you to own her projection and take responsibility for her feelings, and you did.  You are serving your purpose at that point, but it would only get worse, and I'd want to throw you a rope and pull you out if I was there.

we cuddled, kissed she gave me a hickey, then when I had to go she went back into crying mode. 

A hickey.  How completely inappropriate.  But the keep-him toolbox gets large when abandonment is imminent.  Take a moment to congratulate yourself on taking care of you and facing this stuff, you're on it man!

Thank you again for your response Heels, and especially  for  the "I'd want to throw you a rope and pull you out if I was there." a very much appreciate it. There was a lot of guilt and projection on her behalf, and the only thing I need to determine for myself is whether she was an NPD or the Borderline Waif type, I think/ thought she was NPD because:

1. She would always tell me that so and so called her sexy, and would always say things like ive got lush boobs haven't I? the emphasis was always on how good others thought she looked, so lies and truth.  For example, saying someone was hitting on her when nothing even happened.

2.Would always tell me that she had stalkers and that all her exes want her back Quote "I don't know what it is about me, but all my exes still want me back"

3. Always used to tell me that I would cry over her if we broke up and used to smirk when saying it

4.  Extremely seductive sexually, she used to flash her boobs to her ex husbands mates on nights our when she was younger.  She even told me, she used to look at other guys while out with her husband and get turned on by imagining sleeping with them

5.  Her Discard of never contact me again with that smirk provoker look

6. Always told me your never gonna get a better girl in the bedroom, even though, after every time we did have sex she always used to say straight away after "Im the best you've ever had arent I?"

7. Would fabricate lies like" Ive got £2000 in my bank, when in reality she only had like £1200, lieing about achievements like booking her theory test and getting a job, when in reality none of this was real.

But the BPD traits were

1. Excessive crying when she felt potential guilt, would never say im sorry, she would just cry and expect me to rescue her

2. I once broke up with her for 2 weeks, we slapt together in a posh hotel and she started crying during intercourse   

3. Would sometimes say "I feel like a piece of ___ next to you

4. Her past and the abandonment issues she faced as a child

5. The way she told me she felt severely depressed and had thoughts of standing in front of a car

6. The way she opened up to me, while showing emotion like sadness


Co-Morbid or? I just dont know, can NPDs fake crying to get what they need from us?   

[fromheeltoheal]

BPD, NPD, comorbid, unstable sense of self and chaotic interpersonal relationships.  Hell I'm not an expert, comorbidity is common and everyone's different, so although learning the clinical side of BPD has really helped me understand why she does what she does, I have limited interest in something I never knew I needed to know to begin with.

But having said that, my ex had a lot of the traits you mention: convinced every dude who saw her wanted her, extremely promiscuous for decades, convinced all heads turned in any room she walked into, combined with most of the BPD traits as well.

So I like simple, especially when I get confused.  I say there are two kinds of people, the ones who bring me up and the ones who bring me down, and my ex brought me way up at first, and then way, way down.  Maybe life is about removing the ones who bring us down and adding the ones who bring us up, no more complicated than that.  And in that light she had to go, no question.

[HappyNihilist]

So I like simple, especially when I get confused.  I say there are two kinds of people, the ones who bring me up and the ones who bring me down, and my ex brought me way up at first, and then way, way down.  Maybe life is about removing the ones who bring us down and adding the ones who bring us up, no more complicated than that.  And in that light she had to go, no question.

This is one of the most simply beautiful things I've ever read.

Thank you for this.