Why should I expect her to be a mother to me now?

[Dexter0420]

My mom is uBPD and getting worse every day (she is 61).  She hasn't spoken to me in over a month now because I refuse to be a part of an unhealthy relationship (I have told her I love her countless times and that I want to have a relationship, but that I cannot have one that involves all of the bad behavior).  She is telling family I am hateful, toxic and need therapy.  I am in therapy now and being the mother to myself that she has never been, but it still really hurts to know she feels that way and is telling people that. 

She is speaking with someone at her church now and has convinced them she is in an abusive relationship and an enabler to my father (he has never struck her but has been know to yell when his buttons are pushed).  I think by doing that, she is getting the validation she craves from everyone else.  Unfortunately, I feel this is hindering any chance of her getting real help.  I know she told them that I recently ignored her cries for help and was told that God should have mercy on my soul.  What she failed to tell them was what she did to precipitated that reaction from me. 

She says hateful things one minute and will be a totally different person within an hour (this happened to my sister this weekend).  She refuses to discuss any of it because its in the past and shouldn't matter if you love some one.  How does she not see THAT is a form of abuse?  She ridicules me for keeping her text messages, but I do it because she always twists things to make it seem like I don't remember things correctly. 

[Ziggiddy]

Dexter - that sounds so painful. I guess it is not uncommon for pwBPD to initiate smear campaigns and I'm sorry that you seem to be bearing the brunt of that. it's never easy.

If she's convinced others that your father is abusive then I guess it's the other people's choice to believe it or not. I have seen over and over these things become clearer and people getting more understanding that everything might not be true. unfortunately it takes time but don't give up hope.

I dealt with an awful smear campaign from a pwBPD/NPD - accused me of the most horrendous things as well as  just generally bagging me out to dear friends. It did take time but most of them came to understand just how warped she was. My line was to just steadily keep working on myself and be as honest but tactful as I could. One friend said he went over everything she said and everything I didn't say and realised it just didn't add up. Hopefully something similar will happen in your mother's case.

It also sounds like she is projecting heavily on to you. Are you able to look at it in that light? that what she is saying about you is actually what she is feeling about herself? I find that very helpful - knowing myuBPDm doesn't really know me at all like I thought she did - or she couldn't say those things that just aren't true.

i hope you can hold on and just keep believing in yourself.

I am real glad that you are learning to mother yourself and that includes using your self compassion for you first and her only when it's genuinely applicable

Wishing you peace

Ziggiddy

[Moselle]

Dexter0420,

Kudo's for taking a stand and saying you cannot have a relationship with the bad stuff.

I have a mum also uBPD, so I can recognize, and empathise with the pain and anguish

When I took a stand with my BPD/NPD wife, she raged for 6 months solid, but it came to an end, and now she knows if she rages, or even if she raises her voice to me, I leave the conversation (every time without exception). The point is this, it will get better

It 's called an "extinction burst". People with BPD do it when we change the rules or take a stand. It's a bit like a tug of war game. If we pull, they pull even harder to try and re-establish the old equilibrium. Just keep on and be consistent, she'll come around.

I like that you are mothering yourself instead of relying on her. How you do it? There's a gap in my mothering too

[Dexter0420]

It also sounds like she is projecting heavily on to you. Are you able to look at it in that light? that what she is saying about you is actually what she is feeling about herself? I find that very helpful - knowing myuBPDm doesn't really know me at all like I thought she did - or she couldn't say those things that just aren't true.

That's very insightful, thank you. 

I am trying to set boundaries and be non reactive, but it's seeming to me that if she doesn't receive the response or validation she's looking for at say a 7 on a reactive scale, she ramps it up until she gets the response she wants.  If she doesn't get it, then she cuts you out. 

I have always been a victim of emotional incest and no matter how much I tell her certain topics are off limits, she finds a way to weasel them in.  In the past, I have caved and just let her rant even though it left me emotionally debilitated for the rest of the day... .sometimes longer.  I am now trying to end a conversation when I see where it's headed or if she makes a snide remark, I do not respond to it.  My mother exposed me to some very inappropriate stuff as a child and every time she behaves in this manner, it brings all of that stuff flooding back.  I am all for forgiving someone, if they are truly remorseful for what they did and want to change their behavior.  If you never change and keep saying your sorry for not having been a better mother, it sounds like empty words... .and that she's fishing for me to say, Oh no mom, it's okay it wasn't that bad.  you did your best.  Well, her best wasn't nearly good enough.  She didn't protect me as a child and I am now trying to protect myself from her continued mental abuse.  If she never speaks to me again, part of me will be sad, but another part will be relieved. It's obvious to everyone that when we are together, I retreat inside myself because I'm afraid I will say or do the wrong thing.  I don't want to be that person any more.

[Ziggiddy]

I am trying to set boundaries and be non reactive, but it's seeming to me that if she doesn't receive the response or validation she's looking for at say a 7 on a reactive scale, she ramps it up until she gets the response she wants.  If she doesn't get it, then she cuts you out. 

It can be very very painful to have your own mother cut you out - I really identify with that. Part of me is the child who was following her around saying "Mum? Are you still mad at me? Won't you talk to me? here  -I made you a cup of tea?"

It is so hard for a kid (even an adult kid) to be treated to silence. It is also a highly immature way for an adult to treat a child. It both perpetuates the drama and debilitates the child. it is a punishment way beyond the level of the crime for it punishes the WHOLE child and not just the thing they did. Plus it seems like unlove. And children so need to feel loved.

I am all for forgiving someone, if they are truly remorseful for what they did and want to change their behavior.  If you never change and keep saying your sorry for not having been a better mother, it sounds like empty words... .and that she's fishing for me to say, Oh no mom, it's okay it wasn't that bad.  you did your best.  Well, her best wasn't nearly good enough.  She didn't protect me as a child and I am now trying to protect myself from her continued mental abuse.  If she never speaks to me again, part of me will be sad, but another part will be relieved.

Ah you've touched on issues close to my heart there!

Forgiveness - I have redefined what it means.

Like you, I believe it should be based on something from them - sorrow or regret at hurt caused  -acknowledgement of pain caused. Also amends to show  it's genuine.

Dexter I recall my mum flogging the living daylights out of me then coming in to my room later to justify herself "I had to do it to teach you you were naughty" and then i had to forgive her, kiss her on the cheek and tell her I loved her. This totally scrambled my idea of what forgiveness was.

There's a difference between forgiveness and capitulation.

I even say the empty words now  - tell her I love her even though I know we are both aware they mean nothing.

If you don't want to forgive her then you don't have to. it is your right to choose.

Just because someone asks for forgiveness does not make them entitled to it. it's a heartfelt natural thing that comes from insight. It's produced as a result of your own understanding. if it's not there it's not there. It doesn't mean it wll never be but today? this minute? it's all in your hands.

I truly believe this.

[chronsweet]

"If she never speaks to me again, part of me will be sad, but another part will be relieved. It's obvious to everyone that when we are together, I retreat inside myself because I'm afraid I will say or do the wrong thing.  I don't want to be that person any more."

Those words reverberate with me deeply.  I am currently in a not talking episode brought on by my mother's rage over a stupid gift card.  My inability to financially afford more 'gift' has earned me a spot on my mom's naughty list.  She told me to 'have a nice life' one week before Christmas.  It is exasperating to think that a mother could ever say those words to a child.  But, she has spoken to me like that my entire life.  This last episode has me thinking that life will be easier and I'll be able to heal by going No Contact.  It does feel like a relief to think about not being emotionally abused anymore.  Does the sound of your mom's voice trigger you?  Does your mom ever say anything positive?  Or is everything negative?  My mom is all about negativity.  Everything sucks.  Life sucks.  She is dying or she is not happy about this or that.  It is really quite insane.  My mom lives in a house that is paid for, has income to live on, has a reasonable saving account, has a brand new car almost paid for, looks pretty decent for her age, and has people who love her, and yet her LIFE SUCKS.  It is hard to digest this as a child and as a human being.  When I hear her start to rant, my mind begins to shut down.  I find myself snapping at her because I just can't take hearing her voice moan and groan and rant and rave anymore.

[Moselle]

Chronsweet,

So sorry you have to face that. No-one should have to.

[Katarina]

[She says hateful things one minute and will be a totally different person within an hour (this happened to my sister this weekend).  She refuses to discuss any of it because its in the past and shouldn't matter if you love some one. How does she not see THAT is a form of abuse?  She ridicules me for keeping her text messages, but I do it because she always twists things to make it seem like I don't remember things correctly. ]

I have heard that same line from my mother also. It is truly amazing how they can believe their own bs.

Hang in there.

Katarina  

[littlebirdcline]

How does she not see THAT is a form of abuse? 

That's the hardest question for me, too.  How my BPDm doesn't see what she's doing is abusive and inappropriate.  She is a very intelligent person, so it seems so illogical that she can't see the wrong she does, but I have come to understand- at least intellectually- that she really, truly doesn't.  The abuse and trauma of her childhood and adult life has so warped her perception of reality that she cannot see things realistically.  That is the most infuriating part of BPD.  And the reason why most will never get help.  My mother has made it absolutely clear that she will never seek help under any circumstances, and my father and brother are okay with that.  I am still working on getting this at an emotional level, though.  I still respond with hurt and anger (although I've gotten better at not letting her see it) when she attacks, but I'm getting better at reminding myself she can't really help it.  So far, we are maintaining a level of peace, but at a much lower level of contact than before I decided to take care of myself and stop letting her abuse me.  But I also know that she could lash out at any time.  About six weeks ago, she tried to instigate a giant argument, and I just told her I'd talk to her later and took about a week to get my head right before I could contact her again. 

Trying to maintain a relationship with a BPD relative and take care of yourself is a lot of work.  There are days I wonder if it's really worth it, especially when I have lots of other stress going on and don't have the energy. 

Chronsweet,

I so identify with your description of your mother.  My mother, too, has a house that is paid for, plenty of money, a husband who puts up with her craziness, two children who are very successful and have great spouses and an awesome grandchild (if I do say so myself), and is very beautiful and healthy.  Yes, her mother is nuts and she has very little contact with her f#@$ed up family, but she has a lot to be thankful for and happy about.  But she does nothing but focus on the negative.  And when something good happens, she always has to make a comment about how it won't last and bad things are just around the corner.  It's infuriating.  I am a stressed out and often pessimistic person myself (I wonder why) and I am working very hard to focus on the good things in my life.  She always rains on my parade.  Ugh.

[K1313]

She says hateful things one minute and will be a totally different person within an hour (this happened to my sister this weekend).  She refuses to discuss any of it because its in the past and shouldn't matter if you love some one.  How does she not see THAT is a form of abuse?  She ridicules me for keeping her text messages, but I do it because she always twists things to make it seem like I don't remember things correctly. 

This was really interesting for me to read because my mother is the opposite. She's constantly bringing up the past (and by past I mean things that happened 15, 20, 40 years ago). But if I happen to express distress over something from the past, I'm basically told that I'm either too sensitive or too rigid, cold, judgemental and unforgiving.

Oh! Another thing she loves to do if you try to mention something she's done that's hurtful is to start crying and say "that's just who I am! I can't help who I am!" Oy vey.

I'm sorry you're struggling, Dexter0420.

[Dexter0420]

Haven't been on here since before the holidays and appreciate all the support I've received in the interim.  After another bad bout with my mom over Christmas, I have vowed I cannot/will not see her by myself.  I took her to lunch and when she began with what for me is inappropriate conversation, I attempted to assert myself and my boundaries.  I explained to her that when she behaves this way it is difficult for me to forget/forgive the past.  She responded by blurting out hurtful things my dad did to me as a kid.  She doesn't take ownership for anything.  Her parents treated her badly, my father didn't love her enough.  Those are her excuses for being a bad mother.  But in the end, she's kind of right.  My childhood was not great regardless of which parent was at fault. 

After lunch, we went shopping and she told me if she is forced to leave my father, she doesn't know what she will have to live for.  This is the 2nd time in as many days she has eluded to suicide. At this point, I lost it.  She has threatened this for years.  (For example, when I was in middle school, I came home to find her sitting on the couch holding a knife to her wrist.)  I told her I was taking her home and she got enraged, she refused to let me do that.    She asked me to take her to a store, which I did and she tried to buy me a towel with hearts on it. 

We later met the rest of the family for dinner and she acted just fine in front of everyone, meanwhile they all saw I was upset.  We were all supposed to look at lights after dinner but everyone else was too tired, so I wound up going with just my parents.  When we were done and walking back to the car, she laced her hand in mind.  My first thought was revulsion and I wanted to pull away but I didn't.  She has never done that before.  She sent me a text that night telling me what a great time she had with me (Really?), yet she hasn't made contact with me again since then. 

I would like to think I'm strong, but she has an uncanny way of making me feel like I'm the six year old in the basement again and hating myself.

[sisterofbpd]

She says hateful things one minute and will be a totally different person within an hour (this happened to my sister this weekend).  She refuses to discuss any of it because its in the past and shouldn't matter if you love some one.  How does she not see THAT is a form of abuse?  She ridicules me for keeping her text messages, but I do it because she always twists things to make it seem like I don't remember things correctly.

This was really interesting for me to read because my mother is the opposite. She's constantly bringing up the past (and by past I mean things that happened 15, 20, 40 years ago). But if I happen to express distress over something from the past, I'm basically told that I'm either too sensitive or too rigid, cold, judgemental and unforgiving.

My BPD/Schizoaffective sis does the same thing.  The beginning of Nov. she sent me a text saying "Hey Chick, can you please help me find a home for this cat?"  Then two weeks later emailing me and a whole bunch of people calling my husband a $rick, telling me to move out of state and telling my Mom to take a dirt nap.  I had no contact at all in-between her text and then her email.  Then a few weeks after that, she shows up at my work telling me her life is in danger.  I later asked why she contacted me after her nasty email and she said "I thought family was supposed to be there for each other."

There have been times before I knew about BPD that I brought things up from the past that she did that was hurtful and "how dare I bring that up."  Yet, she brings things up from when I was 10 and somehow it's still valid.