Thoughts after a session w/ new counsellor

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hi all,

I'm just wondering if u guys feel the need to at least talk abt ur BPD once everyday? Either talking to a friend, or read an article abt Bpd, or just coming to this forum to seek validation?

I still feel the need to get validated everyday. It has been 3 months now, and honestly I could no longer see us together anymore. But he did send me a text last week to put me down and in my opinion to solicit a response from me. My confusion is this- I was already quite certain that he's a BPD; my previous therapy told me so. But when I met up w a new counsellor yesterday, she refused to label him as BPD. She did says that what he has done to me is unnecessary, that he probably is still in his own world, and his emails and words are abusive. But that's all. She kept asking me why i need to label him as BPD, and I told her I need a firm reason to know that he's beyond salvage and i am doing the right thing to move on. And her advice is, isn't his emails and actions enough show me that im right abt leaving?

After this session i do feel more "normalized". It is like I stop seeing myself as a victim of abused. And somehow it helped me to take more responsibility of moving on. Rather than the mentality that I'm forced to leave w no choice. So initially the session left me feeling good. But then I started looking back and how i've told a few of my close frens abt his plausible BPD condition to gain their understanding... And then I started feeling v bad abt it and wonder if, could it be, that I'm actually the BPD who is on smear campaign? When I think of how i might miss out certain details when I recall events, was i gaslighting? Did I wrong him all these while and indeed let him down?

And i remember how he wanted me to leave my family for him. How he accused me of having an affair. How he always told me that he feels that im not putting him as a proprity. How he always ask me to submit to him. i rmb how abusive his words are. I rmb how my frens feel abt him. I rmb my frens' bewilderment when they learn abt the what happened all these while and the breakup. I b how i finally felt validated and understood when I read articles writen by a domestic abused victim. And i remind myself that no matter what, BPD or not, he's toxic for sure... Yes, some people may become super abusive during a breakup. But i need to remind myself that he's not only abusive during a breakup. He indeed has issues even before we broke up.

And i need to constantly remind myself that. sorry for the ranting but I just really needed to get this off my chest and to hopefully get some affirmation. It has been 3 months since we broke up... I sent him a text last Sunday cos I was missing him so badly over the new year holidays... which of course he didn't reply. As more and more time passed, there seems lesser and lesser reason to text and he seems to have drifted further and further away. Looking ahead scares me, and I hope I'll be strong enough to emerge thru this as a better person.

Lets get out of this hell hole tgt.

[peace_seeker]

Hi all,

I'm just wondering if u guys feel the need to at least talk abt ur BPD once everyday? Either talking to a friend, or read an article abt Bpd, or just coming to this forum to seek validation?

I still feel the need to get validated everyday. It has been 3 months now, and honestly I could no longer see us together anymore. But he did send me a text last week to put me down and in my opinion to solicit a response from me. My confusion is this- I was already quite certain that he's a BPD; my previous therapy told me so. But when I met up w a new counsellor yesterday, she refused to label him as BPD. She did says that what he has done to me is unnecessary, that he probably is still in his own world, and his emails and words are abusive. But that's all. She kept asking me why i need to label him as BPD, and I told her I need a firm reason to know that he's beyond salvage and i am doing the right thing to move on. And her advice is, isn't his emails and actions enough show me that im right abt leaving?

After this session i do feel more "normalized". It is like I stop seeing myself as a victim of abused. And somehow it helped me to take more responsibility of moving on. Rather than the mentality that I'm forced to leave w no choice. So initially the session left me feeling good. But then I started looking back and how i've told a few of my close frens abt his plausible BPD condition to gain their understanding... And then I started feeling v bad abt it and wonder if, could it be, that I'm actually the BPD who is on smear campaign? When I think of how i might miss out certain details when I recall events, was i gaslighting? Did I wrong him all these while and indeed let him down?

And i remember how he wanted me to leave my family for him. How he accused me of having an affair. How he always told me that he feels that im not putting him as a proprity. How he always ask me to submit to him. i rmb how abusive his words are. I rmb how my frens feel abt him. I rmb my frens' bewilderment when they learn abt the what happened all these while and the breakup. I b how i finally felt validated and understood when I read articles writen by a domestic abused victim. And i remind myself that no matter what, BPD or not, he's toxic for sure... Yes, some people may become super abusive during a breakup. But i need to remind myself that he's not only abusive during a breakup. He indeed has issues even before we broke up.

And i need to constantly remind myself that. sorry for the ranting but I just really needed to get this off my chest and to hopefully get some affirmation. It has been 3 months since we broke up... I sent him a text last Sunday cos I was missing him so badly over the new year holidays... which of course he didn't reply. As more and more time passed, there seems lesser and lesser reason to text and he seems to have drifted further and further away. Looking ahead scares me, and I hope I'll be strong enough to emerge thru this as a better person.

Lets get out of this hell hole tgt.

[Tibbles]

Hi

Mine is undiagnosed as well and while I will never know for sure if he is BPD, I have come to accept that what he did was abusive and wrong. My T didn't comment on BPD when I discussed the possibility with her. She did say that he had issues and what I had described was abuse. Don't know if she had come across BPD before or if she just wasn't going to comment on someone she had never seen. I did feel a bit let down afterwards - I wanted someone to tell me yes he is ill and does have BPD but realistically no diagnosis was going to happen through a third party based on my take on the relationship. To me he has BPD. All my research tells me he does. My kids think he does too so that is something at least.

I found lots of validation visiting this site. Reading others stories about the journey we are all on. I went through a stage when I came here a lot, every day looking for validation. Not posting but reading and learning. Now I can leave it for awhile.I do lots of thinking and processing and come back when I am ready to learn more. We all do the self doubting process. Part of the grief and dis-engagement process. We need to go through it to come out the other side. You will come out the other side by the way. AND you are strong enough to emerge a better person. Surviving a relationship with a BPD means you have great strengths, you just need to give yourself time to remember those strengths.

[Recooperating]

Hi Peace seeker,

Your message struck a cord with me! I have been dealing with similar thoughts after a T session!

As you my T. said to stop the labelling with BPD/NPD, she told me to look at his behaviour without looking for an explanation or excuse. His actions are his responsibility BPD or not. His abusive ways were harming me and wether he is ill or not, its a boundary he's crossing and I should not put up with it or justify it cause he's BPD. (My exbf was diagnosed and I was learning skills to deal with him, but no matter what techniques I applied, he was taking his part serious, wasnt putting effort in getting T so I was solely responsible for changing the dynamics... .It didnt work and as I set my boundaries he would get worse and worse... .)

At first when my T said forget about the BPD and just look at his actions, I felt angry amd invalidated. I needed the diagnosis to not only excuse his behaviour, but also to validate my victimhood somehow. In retrospect I think my T is partly right, its not about his illness its about the toxicity of the rs and the abuse that took place. But to understand what has happened I am glad I know about BPD/NPD so I can wrap my head around it somewhat. So my thoughts are, its good to know about BPD/NPD to understand what happened, but it cant be an excuse to justify behaviour... .Abuse is abuse.

As to your remark about a smear campaign. Are you delibarately spreading lies to hurt his reputation, so you can come out as the good one? Are you telling his friends and family lies and are you trying to hurt him like this? I dont think you are! I think after an abusive rs we need our support system! You are speaking about what has happened to you, which is part of healing. You are telling the truth! Talking to your friends and family and allowing them to be there for you is an important part of healing! Did your ex try to isolate you in the rs? Are you experiencing guilt when you talk to your friends? Could be there's some FOG left there maybe? Dont feel guilty about it or blame yourself, these rs are traumatizing and you deserve help and support from your friends and family!

Peace seeker dont be hard on yourself! It has only been 3 months. I have a tendancy to sometimes forget that to. I am 100 days NC  5 months past bu. The recovery takes time, a lot of time! (Sucks I know) We were wounded in our core being, we blame the BPD, we blame ourself even more. We loved so deeply and got hurt real bad. Our confidence and whole beliefsystem got torn apart... .It takes time and selflove to heal!

Take care of you! Sending you big hugs!  

[livednlearned]

My T was the same way with me -- it's very tempting to spend time thinking about the other person, what they did, how they reacted, how they affected us. And therapists want us to focus on us, not the other guy. We're not paying our Ts buckets of $$ to heal our BPD exes  

I found it really helpful to learn about BPD/NPD. But after a while it can get seductive. At first, I thought it was alcoholism, so I researched that. Then I thought it was mixing adderall and alcohol. Then ambien and alcohol. Then Chantix and alcohol. Then bipolar II. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to get N/BPDx into therapy, how to fix him. My T would keep turning things back on me, so frustrating!

Then I left the relationship. And discovered BPD/NPD. No point in trying to fix him at that point, just understand. It was helpful having a diagnosis because it helped me find this place and the validation of hearing others experience so many similar feelings.

But at some point, it has to be about you. Why you fell for him, why you stayed, why you went back. What's hurting in you, where does it go back to, how can you heal.

If you want to get an A+ in therapy, spend the whole time talking about you.  

[Pingo]

Hi Peace seeker, I agree with the others that have commented.  I think it's a process.  As time goes on the BPD part becomes irrelevant (unless you plan on getting back together).  It doesn't change the fact that you are healing from a toxic and abusive r/s.  Neither of my T's I've had have agreed or disagreed about the BPD.  (Mine was undiagnosed).  I mentioned it to them but never asked them to diagnose.  I didn't care if I was right or wrong because I was getting so much from this site, these people can relate to what I've experienced and they are helping me! 

I'm almost 7 mths out of my marriage and I can tell you the progress in my healing that's happened from even a month ago is incredible so hang in there.  Just take it month by month, day by day.  It gets easier!

p.s. if you read back in my threads, there was a time I thought maybe I was the one with BPD!  I think that is very common here!  My T reassured me I wasn't .

[peace_seeker]

Hi

Mine is undiagnosed as well and while I will never know for sure if he is BPD, I have come to accept that what he did was abusive and wrong. My T didn't comment on BPD when I discussed the possibility with her. She did say that he had issues and what I had described was abuse. Don't know if she had come across BPD before or if she just wasn't going to comment on someone she had never seen. I did feel a bit let down afterwards - I wanted someone to tell me yes he is ill and does have BPD but realistically no diagnosis was going to happen through a third party based on my take on the relationship. To me he has BPD. All my research tells me he does. My kids think he does too so that is something at least.

Hi Peace seeker, I agree with the others that have commented.  I think it's a process.  As time goes on the BPD part becomes irrelevant (unless you plan on getting back together).  It doesn't change the fact that you are healing from a toxic and abusive r/s.  Neither of my T's I've had have agreed or disagreed about the BPD.  (Mine was undiagnosed).  I mentioned it to them but never asked them to diagnose.  I didn't care if I was right or wrong because I was getting so much from this site, these people can relate to what I've experienced and they are helping me! 

Dear Tibbles and Pingo,

Thank you so very much for sharing your thoughts with me. It is really indeed hard especially when they are not diagnosed. Sometimes the more i think about it, the more I think he may NOT be a BPD. But when I step back and think about it, what he did is definitely abusive, and my earlier posts sharing my whole experience have quite a few people resonating that there are so many BPD traits in him. So no matter diagnosed or not, I just need to remind myself that yes, BPD or not, and I should focus more my myself rather than diagnosing him. I will keep this in mind! 

As to your remark about a smear campaign. Are you delibarately spreading lies to hurt his reputation, so you can come out as the good one? Are you telling his friends and family lies and are you trying to hurt him like this? I dont think you are! I think after an abusive rs we need our support system! You are speaking about what has happened to you, which is part of healing. You are telling the truth! Talking to your friends and family and allowing them to be there for you is an important part of healing! Did your ex try to isolate you in the rs? Are you experiencing guilt when you talk to your friends? Could be there's some FOG left there maybe? Dont feel guilty about it or blame yourself, these rs are traumatizing and you deserve help and support from your friends and family!

Dear Recooperating.

Really thanks for this! you are right, i never ever shared my experience with the intention to hurt him or smear his reputation; i was simply trying to get more support and validation. There is probably still some FOG left, sometimes i even feel bad about coming to this website for validation as it makes me feel bad about labelling him as a sick person. But honestly, the validation that I get here is so much healing than any close friend's encouragement because what you guys share and said simply hit home! so thank YOU for the validation and the reassurance! :D

At first, I thought it was alcoholism, so I researched that. Then I thought it was mixing adderall and alcohol. Then ambien and alcohol. Then Chantix and alcohol. Then bipolar II. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to get N/BPDx into therapy, how to fix him. My T would keep turning things back on me, so frustrating!

Then I left the relationship. And discovered BPD/NPD. No point in trying to fix him at that point, just understand. It was helpful having a diagnosis because it helped me find this place and the validation of hearing others experience so many similar feelings.

Dear livednlearned,

For me, i firstly learnt about verbal abusive relationship. how victims of verbal abusive relationship always have this "if i had done this/ if i had been better/ if i had said this etc" guilt. and THAT was so ME. and subsequently, I think suspected that he was a NPD, because I heard about how he was 'flirting' and 'fishing for sympathy' on FB. and the whole 3 phrases of a relationship with  NPD (idealization, devaluation, discarding) just fits in so perfectly. Especially on how he discarded me. No taking of any responsibility, no apologies, totally ruthless. and subsequently when i brought this up with my previous T, he told me he's suspecision is BPD, and not NPD, because my ex would still try to connect emotionally, unless a NPD. But unfortunately i have to stop going for therapy with this T because one day after a particular session, he accidentally sent me a rather private msg which was meant for his GF and it was just too embarrassing for me to ever face him again. that is why i have to change a counsellor and when this new counsellor refuse to give a diagnosis, it just makes me feel kinda invalidated and confused.

Thanks again, ALL of you All your words gave me so much validation. At least I know what i'm going through is 'normal' and I am not so alone!  

[Infern0]

It's true that when you turn the looking glass on yourself is when the real healing happens. My first counselling session I spent the entire 60 minutes talking about her. Afterwards I had 6 more sessions, by the last one My counsiller was like, "you've got it all figured out".

In essence I knew what I had to do to heal and to change, so time to go out and do it.

There's certain parts that are hard, she does come into my thoughts still every day, and also I actually hear from her from time to time, usually at least once a week, but i'm pretty much 100% detatched now, so usually the conversation is like

BPDex: "Oh, Infern0, why does my life suck so bad, I just don't understand it, all I want is to be happy, but my boyfriend who is a drug addict and has an IQ slightly below the average ape keeps making me sad, why does this happen to meeeeeeeeee Infern0, I wish I was dead"

Or

BPDex: "What are you doing? I am so upset, my drug addled boyfriend just called me a gutter ___ and shouted at me and told me i'm a retard, I didn't even do anything wrong! I was just talking to his friend all night at the club and he just went nuts when we got home!. I wish things were different, I wish I could get in a time machine some times"


Me: "Tough break, oh well keep working on your relationship, it'll get better, i'm heading out for the day, ciao"

[enlighten me]

Whilst I agree that whether it is BPD or something else we have been through an abusive relatiobship. What I disagree with is being told not to worry about what it was. This goes totaly against my nature. If someone walked up to you in the street and punched you would you just accept youve been punched or want to know why you were punched?

By being able to label the condition I can see why my exs did what they did. It makes sense and I can accept it and move on. There is no doubt that it wasnt me. Yes I will have done things but I never did anything to deserve what was done to me. By realising the fear my exs faced also gives me compassion for what they are trying to deal with daily.

[JRT]

I am three months out and I come here at least a few times a day... .when I feel the sting, I come here and it helps.

[Trog]

My ex was diagnosed with a range of illnesses by different doctors but regardless of the diagnosis one thing that keeps me certain that leaving was right was simply looking at her behaviour.

I agree with your T that the need to label and have a diagnosis for them is not necessary. It may also be harmful as opposed to helpful because we are likely to tolerate even more from a diagnosis, giving excuses for their behaviour and worse still believing their is a cure and sticking around trying to get them help. At the end, if you've been verbally an physically assaulted it doesn't matter what diagnosis the perpetrator has, is this making your life better or worse. Is staying helping anyone.

I know my ex behaviour is unacceptable to me, the fact she refuses to address it via therapy or the prescribed drugs is a lack of commitment to me, my emotions and well being count for less than her ego. That's just not an equal loving relationship. I don't care if she gets help and one day solves her issues. I don't care if she is then happy with someone else. The things she has done (and the things I have accepted) are beyond repair and not fine going forward.

Good luck on your healing, IMO we learn about BPD, we learn about ourselves and have more respect and love for ourselves and then at that point diagnosis means nothing, her symptoms hurt me, without apology, unacceptable. End of.

[jhkbuzz]

Hi all,

I'm just wondering if u guys feel the need to at least talk abt ur BPD once everyday? Either talking to a friend, or read an article abt Bpd, or just coming to this forum to seek validation?

I still feel the need to get validated everyday. It has been 3 months now, and honestly I could no longer see us together anymore. But he did send me a text last week to put me down and in my opinion to solicit a response from me. My confusion is this- I was already quite certain that he's a BPD; my previous therapy told me so. But when I met up w a new counsellor yesterday, she refused to label him as BPD. She did says that what he has done to me is unnecessary, that he probably is still in his own world, and his emails and words are abusive. But that's all. She kept asking me why i need to label him as BPD, and I told her I need a firm reason to know that he's beyond salvage and i am doing the right thing to move on. And her advice is, isn't his emails and actions enough show me that im right abt leaving?

After this session i do feel more "normalized". It is like I stop seeing myself as a victim of abused. And somehow it helped me to take more responsibility of moving on. Rather than the mentality that I'm forced to leave w no choice. So initially the session left me feeling good. But then I started looking back and how i've told a few of my close frens abt his plausible BPD condition to gain their understanding... And then I started feeling v bad abt it and wonder if, could it be, that I'm actually the BPD who is on smear campaign? When I think of how i might miss out certain details when I recall events, was i gaslighting? Did I wrong him all these while and indeed let him down?

And i remember how he wanted me to leave my family for him. How he accused me of having an affair. How he always told me that he feels that im not putting him as a proprity. How he always ask me to submit to him. i rmb how abusive his words are. I rmb how my frens feel abt him. I rmb my frens' bewilderment when they learn abt the what happened all these while and the breakup. I b how i finally felt validated and understood when I read articles writen by a domestic abused victim. And i remind myself that no matter what, BPD or not, he's toxic for sure... Yes, some people may become super abusive during a breakup. But i need to remind myself that he's not only abusive during a breakup. He indeed has issues even before we broke up.

And i need to constantly remind myself that. sorry for the ranting but I just really needed to get this off my chest and to hopefully get some affirmation. It has been 3 months since we broke up... I sent him a text last Sunday cos I was missing him so badly over the new year holidays... which of course he didn't reply. As more and more time passed, there seems lesser and lesser reason to text and he seems to have drifted further and further away. Looking ahead scares me, and I hope I'll be strong enough to emerge thru this as a better person.

Lets get out of this hell hole tgt.

I started seeing my T as we were breaking up.  As you can imagine, the beginning sessions were ALL about my ex, but my T was very patient and didn't suggest that I should be talking about myself instead.  I'm very grateful for this - I needed to process and there was no way around it.  I have noticed that, over time, the conversations have naturally evolved to be more about me and not my ex... .but I couldn't have done it without processing what happened in the r/s first.

I view it like this:  my T was an ER doctor, and I came into the the emergency room with a trauma wound.  She dealt with the trauma wound before moving on to other concerns ("hmmm... .now that you're stabilized we've notice a few things... .blood pressure is a little high... .you may be pre-diabetic... .etc."

And my T has been very clear that she can't "diagnose" someone from afar... .but she's never told me not to label.  I also tend to preface my statements, "If she has BPD".  But there are times that I will tell stories of things that happened and she will explain things to me with the both of us working under the assumption that she does have BPD.  That has been helpful as well.

[livednlearned]

Hi peace_seeker,

There is a book called Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry Controlling Men by Lundy Bancroft. It was one of the most important books I read because it helped me focus on the behavior and not the this thats and the other things. Lundy worked with abusive men for 20 years and the way he describes their behavior and how they think helped me stop focusing on N/BPDx.

You begin to realize that what is under the layers (whether it's mental illness, substance abuse, etc.), it's the behaviors that matter. There's a sentence in that book that has stayed with me for years: that you deserve to have your life be about you. Abusers don't want you to have that. And so when they are no longer in your life, and you are still focused on them, it's really up to you to decide if you deserve for your life to be about you. They aren't there controlling and abusing you anymore. You're technically free. Now you have to help yourself be emotionally and psychologically free.

It's the best gift you can give yourself.  

[peace_seeker]

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and experiences!  

I know I need to focus on myself. It’s really like what jhkbuzz shared: when the BU first happened, it was like a trauma wound and I just cannot stop rethinking and talking about all the pre-BU events. I have orientated my life so much around him that when he left, I felt this intense sense of emptiness, I felt lost, and I could only view myself as the person who lost her fiancé, and nothing more. I lost my identity. When people told me to ‘focus on myself’, it always confuses me even more because focusing on ‘myself’ is the same as focusing on the wound.

But now that it has been 3 months post BU, I have slowly, but definitely gained back a little of myself everyday. I’ve started to see that there is so much more about me than just him, and how much of myself have been suppressed when I was with him. I started to enjoy the freedom of being able to do what I like without having to worry about his approval, I started appreciating how I am able to choose my friends for myself, being able to talk to and take pictures with male friends without having to worry about him getting jealous.  I started turning the attention to myself and my needs, rather than focusing on how he seems to be ‘not doing well’ and trying to rescue him/feeling guilty for his pitiful state. I think now I am definitely better than 2-3 months ago, but I know the road to recovery is still long. I haven’t been crying that much nowadays anymore. But when I chanced upon the song “I don’t wanna talk about it” by Rod Stewart & Amy Belle yesterday,  and when Amy Belle sang the part “I don’t wanna talk about it, how you broke my heart” I just couldn’t help but burst into tears. It made me realized that throughout this whole breakup, even though I have been about to slowly turn the attention back to myself, I am still a long way from willing to acknowledge that it was HE who broke my heart. I have been accepting that this RELATIONSHIP was abusive, but I am far from willing to acknowledge that HE is the guy who is abusing me. Maybe this is why our T doesn’t want us to give our ex a label/diagnosis, because like what Trog shared, it might be more harmful than beneficial since this might give us more excuses to make for them…

And thank you livednlearned for the book recommendation! I hv just bought it online, can’t wait to get my hands on it to start reading. And you are so right about this:

And so when they are no longer in your life, and you are still focused on them, it's really up to you to decide if you deserve for your life to be about you. They aren't there controlling and abusing you anymore. You're technically free. Now you have to help yourself be emotionally and psychologically free.

At the end of the day, it really boils down to our mental willpower to give them up. I am still in the ‘I wish he will recycle me yet I do not want him’ stage. My very last msg to him was a very submission one, still apologizing for the pain that he is going through, telling him that i still love him, and wishing him well, and etc etc etc. I think I did that because I was still trying to play my role: to be submissive and to minimize hurting/disagreeing with him. But now I’m just wondering if I have done more harm than good to him with that. Sometimes I still toy around with the idea of standing up for myself and telling him off and that HE is the one who caused all these, NOT me. He is the one who destroyed HIS life, and MY life, and not the other way round. But then, I really don’t think breaking NC for this will do me any good. So what if I told him off? Perhaps I’m only toying with this idea because I hope he will ‘wake up’ and be nice and come back to me. But are things reconcilable? Nope. Then why do I want to do that for? For his own good? But would he listen? I don’t think so. And most importantly, what good would it do me to break NC for this? No good. So why am I still wasting my time and brain on this? I don’t know… I just know that it really isn’t that easy to break free from this toxic relationship, and it is not a 1 or 2 day thing to get over this. And I’m just glad that I have this forum to share my thoughts with people who are willing to listen, and perhaps reading my messed up thought process, can get some validation for their own mess as well.

To all who are still healing:  .

Let's keep sharing and heal tgt :D  

[livednlearned]

My N/BPDx provided a very intense version of the validation and attachment I never received as a child. He came into my yard with my big empty pool and filled it right up to the top. So when he drained that pool, I desperately did anything to get that feeling back, and I believed only he could fill that pool.

The truth is that you can fill it yourself. Once it's full, and you don't need someone else to fill it, you find healthy partners. You find someone who has a matching full pool. No need to be draining and filling and draining and filling like a tiring abusive exhausting BPD relationship. Fill the damn thing and be done with it! But no, they have to be so mentally ill and needy and controlling and abusive. From now on, healthy partners, full pools.

So yes, you're focusing on you, and it hurts right now, and it feels like focusing on you is the same as focusing on the break up. The break up is the empty pool. You want your ex to fill it like he did before, but no. Not this time. This time you're going to fill it, and it's going to be slow and not nearly as exciting as having someone come along and do it for you.

The tide in your pool is still out, but it's coming in. That's why people recommend taking time to be on your own after a break up. Figure out how to fill that sucker up on your own.  

[Pingo]

The truth is that you can fill it yourself. Once it's full, and you don't need someone else to fill it, you find healthy partners. You find someone who has a matching full pool. No need to be draining and filling and draining and filling like a tiring abusive exhausting BPD relationship. Fill the damn thing and be done with it! But no, they have to be so mentally ill and needy and controlling and abusive. From now on, healthy partners, full pools.

Love this!  Livednlearned, your advise and wisdom is always soo helpful to me!

And I agree with you on that book of Lundy Bancroft's, it was really pivotal in my healing! It's not easy to read but very important!

[peiper]

I had never heard of BPD before. The last time she moved out before we were married  (sixth time) with no fight, just disappeard I went to a T for some insight. I lucked out as he has dealt extensively with BPD individuals. On the first visit he told me she was more than likely BPD. Of course then we moved on to why I put up with the abuse as long as I did, which is a very valid point. I did get some validation that he thought she was probably BPD, at the same time the realization of all I had put up with was a bit hard on my male ego.

[hergestridge]

I agree with your T that the need to label and have a diagnosis for them is not necessary. It may also be harmful as opposed to helpful because we are likely to tolerate even more from a diagnosis, giving excuses for their behaviour and worse still believing their is a cure and sticking around trying to get them help.

But if the diagnosis is bipolar (for example), then the symptoms can be reduced dramtically with the right medication. That is not the case with BPD. So of course the diagnosis matters in our decision to stay or not. I don't get this. I think it's got more to do with the fact that they know that relationships do not improve when the non knows about BPD. It gets worse. That is a fact.

[rarsweet]

I think we all find that if we label something it is easier to understand, and we all want to be validated. In our relationships confusion is a common theme and we seek a way to explain everything. Nothing wrong in that it's natural. And think if this do you really need someone to tell you what you already know? I know I am blond I don't need a Dr to tell me that.

[rarsweet]

I think we are so used to taking care of other people, its been programmed in us, that we automatically think focusing on ourselves would be selfish. That was my problem for a long time, if u have a river that branches out to a whole bunch if little streams, and those little streams are poisoned, don't you treat the river itself?

[Rise]

But if the diagnosis is bipolar (for example), then the symptoms can be reduced dramtically with the right medication. That is not the case with BPD. So of course the diagnosis matters in our decision to stay or not. I don't get this. I think it's got more to do with the fact that they know that relationships do not improve when the non knows about BPD. It gets worse. That is a fact.

So if your ex were bipolar instead of BPD, you'd be willing to put up with abusive behavior because there's the possibility of treatment with medication? Just because there is a possible treatment, doesn't mean everyone is willing to take it. There are a LOT of bipolar people out there that choose not to take their medication.

The fact is, no matter what the diagnosis may be, our exes weren't seeking to get better. And if a person isn't willing to work at getting better, does it matter what is wrong with them?

[hergestridge]

But if the diagnosis is bipolar (for example), then the symptoms can be reduced dramtically with the right medication. That is not the case with BPD. So of course the diagnosis matters in our decision to stay or not. I don't get this. I think it's got more to do with the fact that they know that relationships do not improve when the non knows about BPD. It gets worse. That is a fact.

So if your ex were bipolar instead of BPD, you'd be willing to put up with abusive behavior because there's the possibility of treatment with medication? Just because there is a possible treatment, doesn't mean everyone is willing to take it. There are a LOT of bipolar people out there that choose not to take their medication.

The fact is, no matter what the diagnosis may be, our exes weren't seeking to get better. And if a person isn't willing to work at getting better, does it matter what is wrong with them?

A bipolar person who has not tried mood stabilizing medication before can be much better. Is this very controversial?

My ex was indeed willing to do what it took to get better, if it was about lifestyle changes or medication. Something like DBT however she would not do.

[Rise]

A bipolar person who has not tried mood stabilizing medication before can be much better. Is this very controversial?

My ex was indeed willing to do what it took to get better, if it was about lifestyle changes or medication. Something like DBT however she would not do.

I agree. A person with bipolar can get better. But my point is, there is a difference between a person being able to get better, and them actually doing it. And if someone isn't doing what's required to get better, should we stay with them just because they could (even though they aren't)?

[livednlearned]

That's why it's important to focus on the behaviors, not the diagnosis. Or the hope of diagnosis. Or the hope of treatment. It's way too seductive to think that this person will change for you, as a way to show you how worthy you are, or how much they love you. That's a false goal. People only change for themselves, that's the only real change there is.

So many of us here have issues being fixers and rescuers.

Once you face the deep painful loneliness of your own issues, it gets clear real quick why it's impossible to change someone else. It's scary and it hurts.

[hergestridge]

A bipolar person who has not tried mood stabilizing medication before can be much better. Is this very controversial?

My ex was indeed willing to do what it took to get better, if it was about lifestyle changes or medication. Something like DBT however she would not do.

I agree. A person with bipolar can get better. But my point is, there is a difference between a person being able to get better, and them actually doing it. And if someone isn't doing what's required to get better, should we stay with them just because they could (even though they aren't)?

Of course not. But I don't think you are being a "rescuer" if you are staying with someone who is seeking help and where health care professionals has not yet determined what the cause of the problem is. It is a huge difference between an illness that sets someone off in a psychosis and a personality disorder on the other hand.

In my case my wife's behavior was rapidly getting worse and I needed to know if it was something that was out of her control or not, so to speak. That was very important for me to know when I was going to decide whether to stay or not, or at least what to expect for the future. I was treated as if it was none of my business and that it wasn't important anyway.

When I explained the above to my wife's therapist, she agreed. She "... .hadn't thought of it like that.".

As for a person with bipolar disorder or similiar (like schizofrenia) who doesn't have compliance, there is no reason to stay. As you say, even with treatment there is just *hope* that things will be better with medication. But we had been a couple for 17 years so I wasn't going to let it slip just like that.

[Infern0]

A bipolar person who has not tried mood stabilizing medication before can be much better. Is this very controversial?

My ex was indeed willing to do what it took to get better, if it was about lifestyle changes or medication. Something like DBT however she would not do.

I agree. A person with bipolar can get better. But my point is, there is a difference between a person being able to get better, and them actually doing it. And if someone isn't doing what's required to get better, should we stay with them just because they could (even though they aren't)?

Of course not. But I don't think you are being a "rescuer" if you are staying with someone who is seeking help and where health care professionals has not yet determined what the cause of the problem is. It is a huge difference between an illness that sets someone off in a psychosis and a personality disorder on the other hand.

In my case my wife's behavior was rapidly getting worse and I needed to know if it was something that was out of her control or not, so to speak. That was very important for me to know when I was going to decide whether to stay or not, or at least what to expect for the future. I was treated as if it was none of my business and that it wasn't important anyway.

When I explained the above to my wife's therapist, she agreed. She "... .hadn't thought of it like that.".

As for a person with bipolar disorder or similiar (like schizofrenia) who doesn't have compliance, there is no reason to stay. As you say, even with treatment there is just *hope* that things will be better with medication. But we had been a couple for 17 years so I wasn't going to let it slip just like that.

I agree with you.

Mental illness shouldn't be an instant deal breaker if the person is actively seeking help and willing to try.

There's a difference between being a supportive partner and an enabler

[peiper]

That's why it's important to focus on the behaviors, not the diagnosis. Or the hope of diagnosis. Or the hope of treatment. It's way too seductive to think that this person will change for you, as a way to show you how worthy you are, or how much they love you. That's a false goal. People only change for themselves, that's the only real change there is.

So many of us here have issues being fixers and rescuers.

Once you face the deep painful loneliness of your own issues, it gets clear real quick why it's impossible to change someone else. It's scary and it hurts.


For myself the behaviors led me to find help. Nothing I did would really make her happy. When I went to the T and had him tell me he bet she was BPD it helped me to have some resolution in my mind. Because she almost had me convinced all of her crazy making was my fault. Not to say I didn't have my part. After awhile I had completely shut down and avoided having very many conversations. And by taking her back so many time not only showed her that her behavior was acceptable, it shows me that I have some codependent issues of my own.

[jhkbuzz]

"I have orientated my life so much around him that when he left, I felt this intense sense of emptiness, I felt lost, and I could only view myself as the person who lost her fiancé, and nothing more. I lost my identity. "

THIS a huge problem of our own making - I'm convinced.  It was a problem for me for sure.  And it shouldn't be like this - it's a mistake for us to wrap ourselves up so tightly with someone else that we lose ourselves- lose our identity, lose sight of our own needs. 

No one can give me an identity - my life, my identity, my happiness - they are all mine to seek and create.

[peace_seeker]

That's why it's important to focus on the behaviors, not the diagnosis. Or the hope of diagnosis. Or the hope of treatment. It's way too seductive to think that this person will change for you, as a way to show you how worthy you are, or how much they love you. That's a false goal. People only change for themselves, that's the only real change there is.

So many of us here have issues being fixers and rescuers.

Once you face the deep painful loneliness of your own issues, it gets clear real quick why it's impossible to change someone else. It's scary and it hurts.

I think you are so right on this. It is important to focus on their actions, and not the diagnosis. Afterall, an abusive is an abusive, no matter he's BPD or not. That's why I need to remember. And yes, u are also so right about the hope that he will change for me, for me to validate that he loves me and that all that I am right about my views of him. But that is never going to happen. I just need to accept it.

The loneliness is real, I am still trying to pack my schedule as packed as possible to fill in the emptiness. Sometimes see an unscheduled week still gives me some anxiety. It'll take time, but i'll get there. Thanks so much LivednLearnd!

[myself]

I am still trying to pack my schedule as packed as possible to fill in the emptiness. Sometimes see an unscheduled week still gives me some anxiety. It'll take time, but i'll get there.

Wondering if this is a way, despite the work you're putting in on yourself, to avoid some of it? Which is OK, for awhile, if it's part of your healing process. I've done it too, but for me the times where I sat still and thought things through helped me face things more than keeping busy.

Just as we need to be aware of the behaviors of others, it's good (perhaps most important) to keep an eye on our own. The questions we can ask ourselves: What am I running from? Where is it coming from? How do I get where I need to be, and once I'm there am I really fully there? Etc.

[peace_seeker]

I am still trying to pack my schedule as packed as possible to fill in the emptiness. Sometimes see an unscheduled week still gives me some anxiety. It'll take time, but i'll get there.

Wondering if this is a way, despite the work you're putting in on yourself, to avoid some of it? Which is OK, for awhile, if it's part of your healing process. I've done it too, but for me the times where I sat still and thought things through helped me face things more than keeping busy.

Just as we need to be aware of the behaviors of others, it's good (perhaps most important) to keep an eye on our own. The questions we can ask ourselves: What am I running from? Where is it coming from? How do I get where I need to be, and once I'm there am I really fully there? Etc.

Hi songbook, thanks for the reminder, I appreciating it.  Although i try to keep my schedule as packed as possible now, i do take some time before i sleep to think and reflect. I know I am slowly getting more in touch with myself, and I know I have definitely feeling more 'me' over time. I'll make sure I won't make i wont let the busy schedule keep me from running away from me!